From Slate:
Why Americans swoon for the former Soviet Republic of Georgia.
By Ilan Greenberg
American Georgia boosters may not boast the same numbers and history as, say, lovers of Paris. But what they lack in size and tradition they more than compensate for with depth of feeling. In fact, it is hard to overstate the level of passion felt by Americans in thrall with Georgia. Love for Georgia is uncompromising and consuming. ...Scenes of sullen Slavs hammering vodka shots give way in Georgia to boisterous celebrations of copious wine, joke-telling as bloodsport, and supreme hospitality. ...,
As Mitchell said to me, "There's no other post-Soviet government with a president everyone calls by first name who can argue about where to find the best Indian food in New York."
I got to know Georgia—and Saakashvili—when I profiled him for the New York Times Magazine. For almost two months I shadowed Misha. In Slovakia for a regional summit, walking next to Saakashvili along Bratislava's cordoned streets, the Georgian head of state hooked his arm on my elbow and offered to trade gossip about his senior staff. In Tbilisi, Saakashvili gave me carte blanche access, not once ordering me out of his office. In a region where governments routinely conflate tribe with nation, Saakashvili pointedly switched languages to inclusively address ethnic minorities. One evening I answered my cell phone to hear the cackling voice of the then 37-year-old president, who called to tease that his evening was more interesting than mine. I had been crank-called by the president. Stockholm Syndrome was inevitable.
Georgia's charm doesn't end with Saakashvili. Few sights are as beguiling as barrel-chested Georgian men greeting each other on the street with the traditional cheek kisses. ...
Of course, at the government level, assiduous courting of Americans is all part of the plan. Saakashvili has been reaching out to American politicians, especially Republican ones, since he took office. When I spent time with the president, he was obsessive about influencing American opinion-makers in the press, and his chief of staff complained to me he was spending more time dictating responses to articles in American newspapers than governing Georgia.
For Westerners, Georgian cultural idiosyncrasies can be intoxicating. But for Russians, Georgia is also innerving. The two peoples are badly handcuffed. Russian women falling for Georgian men is a stereotype in both countries, and ethnic Georgians populate the upper reaches of Russian pop culture as celebrated singers and actors.
Actually, Americans don't love Georgia. (A lot of Americans aren't even that crazy about the Georgia that Ray Charles sang about.) What percentage of adult Americans do you think could find Georgia on a globe within 15 seconds? 10%?
Here's the double-sided irony, though: We here in the land of the free and the home of the brave aren't supposed to even notice the links among various interests in Israel, the ex-Soviet Union, and the NYC-DC axis, causing Americans to underestimate their power. And that leads to nasty surprises for Americans, like when one of our client states suddenly invades a Great Power's protectorate. A week and a half later, 90% of the press is still baffled by why Georgia thought it could get away with it. (And another 9% is still pretending Russia struck first -- see today's Washington Post where their Editorial Page Editor asks "Who Made Russia Attack?").
On the other hand, the rest of the world tends to overestimate the power of these Jewish-centric networks, which brag constantly about their power, except when somebody mentions their power. Foreigners shake their heads and ask: If they weren't so powerful, then more people in America would be allowed to talk about them, right?
The truth, not surprisingly, turns out to be in-between, but since we're not supposed to talk about it, nobody knows what they are talking about.
In particular, there are large parts of the world where "conspiracy theory" isn't a pejorative -- the way you prove you're the smartest guy in the room is to come up with the most complicated conspiracy theory. A lot of these conspiracy theorists are anti-Semites, but some of the conspiracy theorists, such as the government of Georgia, are pro-Semites.
And while that global impression of Jewish network omnipotence helps various American and Israeli individuals make a nice living for themselves as pretend powerbrokers, it also leads to tragic/farcical events like Georgia's recent attack.
For example, Saakashvili, a former New York lawyer, apparently figured that if:
- he appointed ex-Israelis to his two crucial cabinet positions ("Both war and peace are in the hands of Israeli Jews," he recently joked);
- bought enough Israeli and American weapons;
- sent 2000 troops to fight in the neocons' war in Iraq;
- hosted an oil pipeline;
- and if he relentlessly massaged the egos and cultural biases of Jewish writers from Jewish-owned American media outlets, portraying Georgians as lovable surrogate Italian-Americans in natural alliance with Jews, with himself as their Rudy Giuliani;
Then America would have to help him out in his little invasion of Russian-defended turf. After all, evidently reasoned this ex-New Yorker, The Jews run America, right? Or maybe the world? So America would have to come to his aid in his war against the New Czar and his Armored Cossacks.
Oops.
Once he started the war, all that Saakashvili got for his years of schmoozing were a lot of credulous articles in the American press forgetting to mention who invaded whom first, and a little rhetorical sabre-rattling from American pundits and Presidential candidates, one of whom, John McCain, has a chief foreign policy adviser who was on the Republic of Georgia's payroll until May 15.
So, Saakashvili's got that going for him, which is nice.
But when it came to actual tank warfare with Russia, well, the idea that these motley networks of hustlers and blowhards whom Saakashvili had cultivated in Israel and America could and would force their countries to ride to his rescue turned out to be just a fantasy in his head.
The Israeli Foreign Ministry has been trying to cut Georgia loose ever since they got wind of the fine mess various ex-Israeli military men had gotten Israel into.
And there was never any way in hell that U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates (who, by the way, is not 29-years-old) was going to send American troops to fight the Russian Army 600 miles south of Stalingrad. The American public wouldn't put up with it. Americans don't know much about history, but we have heard of Hitler and Napoleon, and we more or less know that fighting a ground war with Russia is what brought them down.
By the way, if the Georgian government had any sense, they would haven't turned to American and Israeli advisers for military consulting against Russia, since those two countries' experience and expertise is in tank vs. tank warfare when they have the upper hand. To learn how a little country can hunker down and outlast a big country, Georgia could have hired Swiss experts, or Albanians, or Hezbollah for advice on how a little country can dig in and resist attack from superior armor and air power.
But, the Georgians weren't interested in defense.
My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer
Posts
62 comments:
Re: "For example, Saakashvili apparently figured that if he appointed former Israelis to his two crucial cabinet positions ("Both war and peace are in the hands of Israeli Jews," he recently joked); bought enough Israeli and American weapons; and if he relentlessly massaged the egos and cultural predilections of Jewish writers from Jewish-owned American media outlets; then America would have to help him out in his little invasion of Russian-defended turf."
If we continue your line that getting Jews for the government entails all the benefits of being on the good side of Israel, America, and all Jewish-owned American media, then Putin installing Dmitry Medvedev (purportedly, his mother was a Jew) as Russian President should cancel out Georgian Jews working in the Georgian government.
Should it not?
Steve, post like this is why people have problems with you.
Who the heck ELSE would Georgia call on but some ex-Israeli Army people? They also have Indian and South African people advising their military, AND 130 US Army "advisors."
Making a big deal out of a few Israelis among the mish-mash of American advisors (part of the Iraq deal that sent Georgian military there), South Africans, and Indians is just plain DUMB.
What, is there a massive "South African" conspiracy to control the world? Is Thabo Mbeki trying to make war on Russia?
Georgia is important because of Geography. It's the only pipeline out of the oil-rich Caucuses not controlled by Russia. Which has the habit of turning off the gas and oil pipelines to Western Europe in Winter to jack up prices or make political points.
That's why Putin went in (to destroy the pipeline) and why the US (and Germany which today said it would commit BILLIONS in reconstruction aid and wants Georgia in NATO, NOW) wants to prop up the Georgian government.
Because the world runs on oil.
Interestingly enough, the weapons that were most effective against Russia were supplied by the UKRAINE, and were just updated versions of Soviet anti-Aircraft missiles. The Russians could not suppress them even though the designers of the weapons were ... Russian. After a decisive attack, Russian forces seemed to just run out of steam, probably limited by air losses. Former Spook reports that CNN covered the capture of one Russian Pilot, age 50!!! And the use of Russian-Soviet patrol boats against the Russian fleet in the Black Sea (damaging a flagship that was too close to shore) gives credence to US Navy people warning that Iran is no joke, conditions in the cramped choke points of the Gulf being similar.
My advice -- spend less time on nebulous theories of "Israelis" or "Jews" influencing events (which is about as laughable as South Africans doing it) and more on oil, and the military lessons of this conflict.
Russia SHOULD have wiped the floor with Georgia. That it did not ought to have everyone wondering ... why?
I'll add, you're failing to see the obvious in the search for ethnic influence:
Russia, Iran, Saudi, Venezuela, all have huge "thug" patronage networks and need sky high oil prices NOW to pay them off and keep their regimes in power. Damn the consequences long-term.
The US, China, Japan, and Europe all need oil prices LOW now, particularly China, which is VERY vulnerable to recession-rebellion if the US stops buying cheap sneakers and TVs from them due to energy price induced recession and transport across the Pacific jacking up prices. [Forget the housing market, focus on ENERGY.]
That's a built in conflict making a mockery of the War Nerd's theories about "end of wars" or various Paleocon and Liberal ideas of war and conflicts just ending due to human nature "advancing."
Heck Ukraine offered it's satellite facilities, built by the Soviets, as part of NATO's early warning system.
Re: testing99
Yeah, let's take the Jews word for it when they say they never influence anything and don't have ethnic networks. That's a smart thing to do.
testing 99 says
“Russia SHOULD have wiped the floor with Georgia. That it did not ought to have everyone wondering ... why?”
Russia did wipe the floor with Georgia. The Georgian Army ran and nobody has seen them since, the only thing left is the abandoned Georgian Army equipment and bases which are now being destroyed. The Russian Army stopped where it did because that is where they wanted to stop. They had no interest in going anywhere except taking control of any territory that the Georgians could fire artillery at the separatists territories. Shooting down four aircraft is not a major victory when there is nothing standing except a few police between the Russian Army and your capitol city.
The leadership of Georgia are fools, and the US would be well advised not to ally with fools, though this has never stopped the US before.
When I am seeing comments like those from testing99, I realize that a strong and independent Russia will never be accepted in the West. What people do not seem to realize is that Russia was never in a full war mode with Georgia, nor did it want to. Less than 1% of Russian army was engaged in the war zone. Just because US and NATO would bomb the hell out of any weak country, as it did with Serbia and Iraq, does not mean that Russia would want to behave in a similarly barbaric manner. It is quite interesting to see the West hiding behind "democratic ideals" in order to justify defending a mass murder (2000 civilians killed in the first 2 days). That article from Slate is particularly disgusting.
testing99 and Ilan Greenberg and co. want one thing: for you to accept their arguments at face value without discounting the messenger on account of their predictable ethnic bias.
See how quick they are to insult "sullen Slavs". And note how quickly an oped by an "ivanova" would be discounted by them as ethnically motivated.
They are seemingly incapable of admitting involvement, let alone fault! Contrast to Euros who beat themselves up every day over slavery, colonialism, etc.
There is no point in arguing with people like testing99 as you already know his position on any issue is a function of his background.
"So, he's got that going for him, which is nice."
Isn't that Billy Murray's line from the movie Caddyshack?
After caddying 18 holes for the Dali Lama, he was told:
"Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me. Which is nice."
Is Steve comparing the young president of Georgia to Carl the greenskeeper?
Russia, Iran, Saudi, Venezuela, all have huge "thug" patronage networks and need sky high oil prices NOW to pay them off and keep their regimes in power. Damn the consequences long-term.
All the evidence points to the contrary. Russia, Saudi etc. have done NOTHING to increase the price of oil. They are pumping it like crazy.
In fact, you are projecting you on acts and motivation on the Russians.
It is the US and Israeli threats on Iran that increase the price of oil. To wite, we see the price starting to fall as the prospect of an attack on Iran lessens.
But, neocons such as yourself are not willing to let the price of oil fall, long term consequences be damned. Right now, AIPAC is pushing in Congress for more sanctions against Iran that will increase the likelihood of conflict (rekindle the fire) and most certainly increase the price of oil once again.
Your lack of concern for the well being of the US (or the world) is helping the Russians, Saudis, etc.
So, you are feigning concern for the price of oil. You are a dishonest person testing99, but anyone who has been reading this blog knows that from the continuous misstatements of fact spewed forth by yourself, this just being another example.
When I am seeing comments like those from testing99, I realize that a strong and independent Russia will never be accepted in the West.
I hope that this proves to be wrong in the future. Most opinion in the west is essentially implanted in the masses by elite opinion-makers and as such, is artificial and superficial to boot. Don't blame the west. Instead help us to "change" (as Obama puts it). We can all work together on this.
1/ No one know, fortunately for the Swiss, how the Swiss would do in war. Their topography and lack of natural resources to take is what protects them (yes. yes, every adult male Swiss has a gun)
2/ To put into other words what I previously said, Alexander the Great was 4 years older than the Georgian Misiter of Defense when Alexander died. And Gates is much older than 29, pretty close to McCain's age I believe.
3/ Apparently no one dirctly involved in the conflict, not Georgians, not Russians, not any of the governments of what paleocons used to call 'captive nations' (now they call them 'genocidal') cares about any Jewish connection.
How does the supposedly Jewish controlled US media manage to do this?
4/ 'Sullen Slavs'? Wouldn't that include the Poles, Czechs and Ukrainians who support Georgia?
I am Lugash.
Lugash, despite defecting into the USSR, has never met any Georgians. No Georgians have prank called Lugash. No Georgians have argued with Lugash about the best Indian food in NYC. No Georgians, much less the president of Georgia, have walked arm in arm with Lugash through charming Bratislava.
Lugash says Ilan would have been much more correct if he said Georgian politicians and American politicans are in thrall with each other.
Lugash, and other normal Americans, don't give a shit about Georgia.
I am Lugash.
One of your better recent pieces. I concur with your analysis of "Misha's" thought process behind launching his war.
Perhaps the important question is why, particularly since he lived and was educated in the US, he subscribed to the "canard" that the "Jews run America." You rightly note that it is not just foreigners who live here that come to that conclusion- it is the common consenus among the rest of the world.
What leads people to this conclusion, and what can be done to prevent it? It is obviously having a detrimental impact on the reception and interpretation of US Foreign Policy abroad.
I am Lugash.
Off topic again.
Slate Explainer breaks the taboo(kind of) on racial differences in sprinting:
http://www.slate.com/id/2197721/
I am Lugash.
Maybe it’s just a coincidence that most the hated Russian Oligarchs are Jewish? What are the odds?
"sullen Slavs"
and you just know that in Russia the same ethnic group that wrote the above statement is spewing the same racist filth against Anglos, Germans, and the French in the Russian newspapers and magazines.
The interesting part about all this is that the further South one travels on Earth the less reproductive and material success Jews have had - to the point where their power and physical numbers are non-existant in Arab lands, India, and Africa. And yet for some reason Jews love nothing more than to slam Slavs, Anglos, French. etc. even though these groups allowed them to have more population numbers, power, wealth, and physical protection than anyone else. It even took the armies of the French and English to physical protect from their cousins - Arabs - and it takes German/American money to keep them afloat in the land of brotherly love.
It all makes sense - doesn't it? After-all the Georgians, much like the Italians are a 'natural' ally against those evil Northerners. And only if the Jews could talk the Arabs into some sort of an alliance then they could ditch those northern, alcoholic, uncivilized pests. The city gates could be swung wide open from the inside.
The sad part about all this is that so many Jews are so deluded about these sort of alliances that by the time they are through playing their demographic games in the west and the west is one gigantic gang-land then the same tactics wil no longer work and Jews will be more vulnerable than ever. It's all like one massive deluded hate-on where internal feelings are projected on host populations and clumsy destruction is the ultimate result.
Steve I think it's the overstatement that does you in here. It's fun writing, but bad thinking. To suggest that on balance, the Georgians were more the aggressors is one thing. To claim that "...one of our client states suddenly invaded the protectorate of a Great Power," or "Once he started the war..." as if there were no possible claim of aggression on Russia's part is an overstatement which makes all that follows suspect. Strategypage, Publius Pundit, Austin Bay, Victor Davis Hanson - they are all coming down on the side of Russia being the primary aggressor by baiting Georgia and then over-reacting. I would think you might find at least one of them credible.
There is already significant backpedaling from the claims of Georgian atrocities and wide swaths of destruction. The cyberattacks preceded the invasion. I cannot read your mind and motive, but your tone suggests that you have such a knee-jerk response to any possibility to an American involvement on any level, combined with an immediate suspicion whenever Israelis are involved, that you leap to conclusions when those are in the mix.
As to "the neocons war," that is oversimplification to the point of silliness.
I imagine the Russians had lots of spies in the Georgian government and knew of Georgia's plans almost immediately, and welcomed Georgia providing them with a casus belli.
But, the fact is that Georgia rolled first.
This is off-topic, but I wanted to bring to your attention today's headline AP story about the situation in Postville IA. The story is a masterpiece of obfuscation. It manages to mix in all the elements so that it doesn't actually deny or overlook the ethnicity of the participants, but it makes it impossible for the reader to figure out the cause-and-effect relationships, and it attempts to arouse our sympathy with rather ham-fisted propaganda tactics.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080816/D92JGJ8G2.html
"Steve, post like this is why people have problems with you."
What sort of people? Do these people have a name? Are they an ethnicity, a religion? Perhaps both?
And if we all here know what these people that have a problem with posts and thoughts of this sort are called, why does testing99 insist on using the generic term "people" anyway? Mind you, that was a rhetorical question.
Testing99, you're as transaprent as glass and as predictable as clockwork.
It's exceedingly frustrating to belt out a throaty shout only to realize that you made no noise at all - or at least none that ears in the vicinity had any capability of hearing.
Nonetheless, I'll say it again.
Jews ARE INDEED overrepresented at the top of totem pole of whomever your ideological enemies are. They're also overrepresented at the top of the totem pole of ideologies you find kindred (even, awesomely, many Jew-wary ones).
An antisemite therefore is someone who chooses to notice all of the Jews at the dais of the enemy's party while excusing the Jews at the helm of his own preferential causes as being somewhat accidental, surprising or non-noteworthy.
Antisemitism (of this sort at least) is simply the mark of a non-thinking buffoon. Antisemitic Communists considered Jews Capitalists ("their god is mammon" and all) and antisemitic Capitalists see Jews as Communists.
But you knew that already. In fact it's so cliched that one has the temptation to assume that it's untrue. But not every cliche is, in fact most are not.
In any event --
WHY Jews are so overrepresented is an entirely separate question (yeah Sviggy, we know, because all Jews work in tandem to trample the goyim yadda yadda yadda) but the facts are that Jews happen to be overrepresented all over the fuckin place, particularly in areas where certain forms of intelligence are rewarded with success, such as politics, business and science.
Powerful Jews are overrepresented among Putin's allies, supporters, confidants and beneficiaries and powerful Jews are overrepresented among his critics, detractors and enemies.
Can you create a "Just So Story" out of the accidental areas where Jews are overrepresented as in contrast to those places where they aren't? Sure. Fitting the facts into your prejudices aint too hard - - but you're going to have to squeeze a lot of facts.
mnuez
"since those two country's experience" should read "since those two countries' experience."
An interesting article on a very confusing situation, though, Steve.
I actually wish they had invaded the state of Georgia. I really hate people from Atlanta. They're the second most annoying people behind people from Texas.
It is quite interesting to see the West hiding behind "democratic ideals" in order to justify defending a mass murder (2000 civilians killed in the first 2 days).
It is quite possible, likely even, that the war's death toll was far lower than originally thought. The hospital in the South Ossetia capital (I'm not even going to try to spell the city's name), which apparently is the only hospital in a large region, reported a total of 40 deaths. And most reports say that the physical damage in combat areas is nothing much.
Not your strongest article, Steve.
The thing is, it's quite easy to fight and win a land war against Russia. The Germans did it in the First World War without breaking a sweat.
The way to do it is to sucker the Russians into invading some other country wherein everyone hates Russians. Then, run rings around their poorly armed forces and ambush them.
Also, the Americans didn't train the Georgians for tank warfare; if I recall a'right, the Americans trained them for counterinsurgency in Pankisi Gorge and such. Admittedly this is COUNTERinsurgency, but the lessons should be easy enough to spin around to being insurgents against counter-insurgency tricks.
Anyway. Say that I grant you that Russia beat Georgia (by tossing them mostly intact into the briar-patch known as "the Caucasus" - but yeah, say I declare that a "loss" for G). I'll also grant that the US came off looking confused and that Georgia has lost some territory forever.
Russia is, nonetheless, in the process of losing the wider war, which is about non-dictator smaller countries trying to keep Putin or the next Putin from muscling them around.
I've already commented here about the Stalin museum in Gori. This is its official page:
http://www.stalinmuseum.ge/
I think the whole thing is simply hilarious. That museum (and apparently that page) are being financed by a government that the neocons are calling democratic and "pro-Western". Think of the neocons' definition of democracy. Then look at that page. Fortunately it has an English section:
http://www.stalinmuseum.ge/museumeng.html
I quote: "Exactly in this very city there is a State Museum of an outstanding person J.Stalin, where unique exhibits are collected: memorial things, presents, canvases, photo-film documents etc. Here is kept unique historical stuff connected with that epoch, in which J.Stalin lived and did his social work."
On another page: "The second hall describes a period of history of the Soviet country in 1925-1940. Against a background of historical events is shown a fight of Bolshevik Party for developing the country, against oppositional parties: against Trotzky, Bukharin, Zinoviev, Kamenev etc."
To the people who are behind Saakashvili's deification in Western press, Stalin's ousting of Trotzky and Co. was his biggest crime. That IS what made him undemocratic in their eyes. Remember, they didn't become neocons until AFTER Trotzky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, etc. were thrown out of power. By Stalin. Before this event they were all just Communists.
But now this museum is owned and operated by the "democratic", "pro-Western" Georgian state! Look, it even says "J. Stalin's State Museum" at the top of almost every English page on that site.
Isn't politics fun?
Sailer, you're not nearly as intelligent as you think. This article is simplistic and stupid. Then again, you're not Jewish. So you just don't have that genetic edge. Oh well, c'est la vie. But did you notice that the support of the Polish public for the American missile shield on their territory has shot up a hell of a lot since the Georgian fiasco? Hmm.... I f**king wonder.... Steve, you're really not worth these gems. But someone's got to do real thinking rather than imagining that pondering Jewish networks is cutting edge investigation. You're just too predictable, goyishe kop.
"The fact is that Georgia rolled first." The sort of point that is sometimes of primary importance, and sometimes irrelevant. You haven't demonstrated it's the former here.
I will note my great pleasure that you publish comments which disagree with your points.
assistant village idiot said:
"The fact is that Georgia rolled first." The sort of point that is sometimes of primary importance, and sometimes irrelevant. You haven't demonstrated it's the former here.
Village idiot indeed.
What's all the fuss about "aggression" in international relations, then?
Spoken in a George Constanza accent (from "Seinfeld"): "I was the aggressor? Is that SO WRO-O-O-O-NG?"
mcgee -- sailer is half Jewish. Also, slinging around racial epithets like "goyishe kop" is an own goal. yes, I know you were "joking".
Mnuez -- are Jews equally represented among all ideologies? For example, are there as many Jewish proponents of blood'n'soil nationalism as there are warriors against tribalism and antisemitism? Quantity matters.
What I am missing is an open minded discussion about the ethical situation. The ethical dilemma for the Georgians is the following: If Georgia has a historic claim to Ossetia, then Russia has a similar historic claim to Georgia, right? The US policy has been against secession since 1861, thus, we should logically support Georgia's claim to Ossetia, and any Russian claim to Georgia.
It's official. The lawgivers have spoken!
Per Slate, if you don't love Georgia and hate Russia, you aren't an American. Who knew?
Please, please, Mr. Greenberg, tell me more about what being an American means! My family has only been here 300 years. All that time, we were waiting for a New York Jew to define us and tell us what our opinions are.
mnuez -- both capitalism and communism are anti-nationalist. There are political philosophies that do not match this neat dichotomy. Notable among them is racial nationalist socialism, as practiced by Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, modern China -- and modern Israel.
"The struggle for control over the pipeline routes from the Caspian basin to international markets is no small matter. For Russia, not only are the pipelines a source of revenue, but they also provide Moscow with political leverage over the former Soviet republics to the south. That is precisely why the United States is so determined to diminish Russia's control over the flow of energy. In Washington's eyes the alternative conduits--most notably the BTC pipeline through Georgia--are a matter of national security. 'This is about America's energy security, which depends on diversifying our sources of oil and gas,' Energy Secretary Bill Richardson affirmed in 1998. 'It's also about preventing strategic inroads by those who don't share our values.'"
-Michale T. Klare, Blood and Oil
"Saakashvili pointedly switched languages to inclusively address ethnic minorities."
Wow, that really exciited the NYT. But then that's as long as the miniorities are not central European whites or Russians. I guess the love affair with Misha has nothing to do with Georgia but a lot to do about other issues.
This time I was rooting for the Russians and they did not let me down.
Interesting analysis. Most commenters seem to have missed Steve's point that the Georgia debacle was the result of Saakashvili *overestimating* the power and influence of Jewish networks.
Re US training to Georgia - counter-insurgency training might be useful for picking up insurgency tips; but that's not what Georgia needed. They needed training in how to lure in and smash tank armies Hezbollah style - or Rommel style; it was his use of 88mm field artillery to destroy British tank forces after luring them into attacking his smaller Panzer forces that was the root of his success in the WW2 Africa campaign.
Something I noticed from primary sources is that it looks like the Russian tank forces employed in Georgia were all crappy old T72s, apparently no T90s were used. So this wasn't a test of Russia's best forces in action. Either Russia didn't have T90s at their Caucasus base and had to use what was available, or they didn't want NATO seeing the T90 in action and getting an idea of its capability. Either way, it wasn't a case of superior Russian tech beating the Georgians, who also had T72s plus Western drones etc.
"Russian women falling for Georgian men is a stereotype in both countries, ..."
Ha ha, what a giveaway. The subtle innuendo on with white women falling for black men, which is so popular with the liberal media, because supposedly they can humiliate flyover country whites with it. My mother was German and my father Afrikaans. Guess which culture stuck? Right, the mother's. That's why countries like Germany and Israel determine that your mother needs to be German or Jewish respectively. Usually the mother's culture sticks, which is why Obama is more of a freak than a normal person. He would be taking after his mother if he did not have issues, as Steve pointed out. And having issues should automatically disqualify him from office. But don’t expect the über-intelligent, know-all liberal media to notice.
So Russian women falling for Georgians means more Russian kids and Russian army conscripts. But then I'm sure the author does not care whether its true, its just about humiliating Russians.
The stuff about pop culture is so bland it’s not even worth commenting. It’s supposed to be a corollary of the rap scene in the US. How lame.
"Blogger Zimri said...
The thing is, it's quite easy to fight and win a land war against Russia. The Germans did it in the First World War without breaking a sweat.
The way to do it is to sucker the Russians into invading some other country wherein everyone hates Russians. Then, run rings around their poorly armed forces and ambush them..."
WW1: losses on the Eastern Front, about 1.6M Russia versus about 900M Austria and 500M Germany. This is a pretty nifty definition of "running around", as proposed by Zimri (Zimriel from the house of David). Making such sweeping statements only shows what a fool you are.
Russia might have lost that war but only because of the Revolution. In any case, now Russia has enough nuclear firepower to make the entire world crumble like clay. It is only a matter of time before neocons will have to understand that they cannot control the entire world. The plan to destroy Russia as an entity has failed Zimri, deal with it.
Grumpy russian
"...A lot of these conspiracy theorists are anti-Semites..."
...kinda true, but that's hardly surprising since they are moralists. If you want an ultra-moralist in action, check Larry Auster--an anti-anti-Semite, so to say. He claims: since we're moral beings, a universe without a moral dimension is completely uninteresting to us.
See, how would we build cars, for instance, if driving them weren't morally justifiable? Got that?
Moralism is a form of animism, attributing "will" to all human phenomena indiscriminately. It's an evolutionarily adaptive defense mechanism--in a certain geography that is mostly, well, deserts. (Did you notice how moralistic scorpions are? You wander into their territory in a godforsaken boundless patch of sand, and they'll sting and poison you--as if that whole sandpatch has gone to dogs.) Acting on the assumption that the members of your (perceived) enemy are acting in their (perceived) interest is what primarily gives their actions the semblance of a pattern. And when *they* do the same, you blame them for being morally reprehensible. All sorts of fun is mutually had like this.
The Middle East is a hotbed of anti-Semites not because people down there are (as Robert Spencers and Larry Austers of the world have you believe) morally reprehensible because of not "loving thy enemy" and cuddling up to Jews, but in an extended sense of the word "anti-Semite:" all semites are against all other semites. Down there, it's the primary survival strategy, and therefore posh.
Those like me are anti-Semitic due to another reason: we're equal opportunity haters and we can't stand any variety -- Jewish, Arab, Kurdish, Assyrian, Yezidi, Sunni, Shi'a, etc. etc. ad infinitum. No Semite is a terribly good Semite, and the best Semite (Jesus) is probably a myth. For sensible living, one's motto must be "see-no-mite," "hear-no-mite," and "talk-to-no-mite."
Otherwise, you end up having to deal with fellows like testing99. He doesn't even filter a statement like "this is why people have problems with you" probably not even realizing how extremely ethno-centric his attitude is: he calls his ethnic brethren and sistern "people" covering them up safely, he implies that a goy perceiving a pattern about his ethny is a "problem" for his people (very Middle East; Steve is supposed to kiss their feet and say "I know you're the embodiment of God; sorry, my bad" or something like that to be "liked" by them), and that he connects this to Steve's not officially having become a star (not de facto; that has already happened).
So there, goy boy; unless you stop perceiving things about us clear as daylight, you'll remain out of the media limelight.
Nice, isn't it? What a revelation!
Sayin' Nick-less
It is quite interesting to see the West hiding behind "democratic ideals" in order to justify defending a mass murder (2000 civilians killed in the first 2 days).
Heh, it's funny how Russians and their backers are still repeating this obvious lie. The claims of mass murder (I think Putin even called it "genocide") and complete destruction of Tskhinvali ("Tskhinvali doesn't exist, it's like Stalingrad was after the war", some Russian general said) are completely baseless. A few dozen people may have died and a bunch of buildings may have been destroyed or damaged, but all the talk about mass murder and destruction is simply war propaganda--which, however, I am sure will treated as fact in Russian history books.
If there really was this mass murder and the city was destroyed, why don't the Russians, who control the city, showcase some photographic evidence of it? It would be a great PR victory for them. Of course, it's a bit difficult to do it if there were no massacres or large-scale destruction at all. Here's an article from a reporter who visited Tskhinvali a couple of days ago.
Moreover, some commenters seem to think that the only reason one might support the Georgians against the Russians is if one is a Slav-hating Jewish conspirator. This, of course, reveals their ignorance of Russia and Europe. The truth is that all the nations that have borders with Russia tend to be hostile to Russians. This is why e.g. Polish, Estonian, Lithuanian, and Latvian governments have strongly supported Georgia in this crisis. All of those nations have been recently occupied by Russia, and they remember what it entails.
Not being under Russian rule is OBJECTIVELY good, because Russian rule means arrested economic development, lack of political rights, boundless corruption, lack of rule of law, etc. The only peoples who could possibly benefit from Russian rule are those that are at a lower civilizational level, like some Siberian tribes.
As the idea of America not militarily interfering around the world is clearly a paleocon pipe dream, it would make sense for America to support those nations that are pro-American, Western or Westernizing, instead of running hopeless democracy-building projects in the Muslim world, or appeasing the non-Western, anti-American Russia, which is basically a developing country with nukes.
"portraying Georgians as lovable surrogate Italian-Americans"
I think that is about right. The same cultural imperatives that moulded sicilians worked in Georgia & led to them running criminality in the USSR (though unlike the USA they also famously got into government too). That is certainly their lovable reputation in Russia. I can see why the sort of US intelligence "experts" who got on so well with the gangsters the KLA was recruited from & have a history of working with gangsters back to the invasion of Italy, like them so much. I'm not sure anybody else does.
PS I think it takes some dissociation from reality to say that Russia did not wipe the floor with Georgia's army. That army no longer seems to exist & Russia could clearly have walked into Tiblisi any time the wanted over the last few days. I have previously drawn a comparison with Stalin's Winter War against Finland where Russia got a bloody nose & with the Kosovo war where NATO never even tried to take on the Yugoslav ground forces.
They're also overrepresented at the top of the totem pole of ideologies you find kindred (even, awesomely, many Jew-wary ones).
Perhaps (feel like enumerating the Jews at the top of promoting European Ethnic Genetic Interests?).
On the other hand, what is certain is that Jews are at the top of the heap of promoting the fallacy that [insert trait that falls along a spectrum here] is [trait that falls along spectrum] and that means Jews have no particular interests, which is obviously a pretty stinky load.
In other words, there's "overrepresented" and there's "overrepresented." Put lipstick on that pig all you want buddy.
Please, please, Mr. Greenberg, tell me more about what being an American means! My family has only been here 300 years. All that time, we were waiting for a New York Jew to define us and tell us what our opinions are.
Hahaha, I'm not sure I didn't pull a Tyler Durden and post that myself!
"The interesting part about all this is that the further South one travels on Earth the less reproductive and material success Jews have had - to the point where their power and physical numbers are non-existant in Arab lands, India, and Africa."
Nice job of not letting the facts get in the way of your theory. Jews have actually done quite well in Brazil and South Africa, and other places in the Southern Hemisphere.
- Fred
anonymous (whicheverone you are):
Thanks for the link to the J. Stalin State Museum.
"Here is kept unique historical stuff connected with that epoch, in which J.Stalin lived and did his social work."
Indeed. "Unique historical stuff". If one were to translate Stalin and his thugs talking, I always imagined them speaking - Sheldon Leonard like - with Runyonesque faux erudition. That's funny.
And "Social Work" - who knew that Lavrenti Beria was a social worker?
So these are our "partners in democracy"? A government that glorifies Joey S.
Steve, it might be difficult for you to understand this but not everyone is as obsessed with Jews as you are. You admittedly knew nothing about Georgia prior to this current conflict, yet consider yourself qualified to psychoanalyze Saakashvilli and spout off about the supposed overlooked significance of "Jewish networks", ignored by all the mainstream analysts and scholars who actually know something about the politics and history of the region.
The Jewish press is understandably interested in events in terms of implications for Israel. Just because Israeli papers write about Israeli connections, doesn't means that it is a useful approach in trying to understand the conflict as a whole. If you are neutral toward Israel as you claim to be, it is difficult to see why you take world events that have in themselves little to do with Israel and blow up the issue. Your commentary on this whole story proves beyond all doubt you are overly predisposed toward seeing things in terms of imaginary Jewish motives (and assume everyone else does too)...
-----------------
Regarding "Jewish ethnic biases": I love how the Jewish-Russian intermarriage rates according to Steve show "Russian tolerance", yet the Paleos still insinuate without a shred of proof that Jews are racist against Russians! It's hard to have a discussion if the other party engages in such wildly inconsistent reasoning.
An antisemite therefore is someone who chooses to notice all of the Jews at the dais of the enemy's party while excusing the Jews at the helm of his own preferential causes
Anti-semitism is (1) the recognition that there may be conflicts of interest between the Jewish community and others, and (2) the belief that these conflicts of interest need not always be resolved in favor of the Jewish community.
In other words, anti-semitism is nothing more than a rejection of the "Chosen People" double standard.
"motley networks of hustlers and blowhards whom Saakashvili had cultivated in Israel and America" - this is how Sailer characterizes Jews. Nice.
By Barbara Tuchman's definition, making sweeping statements that prove to be wrong isn't foolish; it's mistaken. "Folly" would be persisting in this mistake. So, because I do not wish to be seen as a fool, I graciously concede to you that Russia caused much damage to Germany (and Austria) before it was defeated.
But Russia was, still, defeated in WW1. Look at a map of Russia before and a map of the Brest Litovsk treaty. And then look at what Russia got back as of 1921.
It wasn't the Revolution which beat Russia in WW1. In German that sort of nonsense is called "Dolchstoßlegende". In reality Russia lost territory every year the war went on. The 1917 Revolutions (there were two of them) came about because first the Tsar couldn't keep Russia together while fighting this war, and then the Provisional Government failed at it too. They were so weak by 1921 that they couldn't even hold on to Poland and the Baltics.
Okay, so, it's not "easy" to defeat Russia, unless you're a Mongol; but the theory behind defeating Russia abroad is easy (to understand). I already explained how, and Simon Newman offers some tips on how the tactical side of it might work in the Caucasus today. Which was the point I was trying to make, minus the sweeping statements.
- and if he relentlessly massaged the egos and cultural biases of Jewish writers from Jewish-owned American media outlets, portraying Georgians as lovable surrogate Italian-Americans in natural alliance with Jews, with himself as their Rudy Giuliani;
Unfortunately for them, the Georgians also share the Italians' fighting skills.
Please, please, Mr. Greenberg, tell me more about what being an American means! My family has only been here 300 years. All that time, we were waiting for a New York Jew to define us and tell us what our opinions are.
Don't bother the nice Mr. Greenberg for guidance. My family has been here more like 400 years. I'll be happy to define you and provide you with opinions.
Definition: You are rude.
Your opinion: Irrelevant. No one cares what rude people think.
Recent immigrant families can be so presumptuous.
corvinus:
"Unfortunately for them, the Georgians also share the Italians' fighting skills."
Are you just basing that on this last war? I never heard of any "Four Georgians is an army in retreat" type stereotype as is often applied to Italians. I had the impression they were generally thought a pretty tough bunch.
zimri:
"the theory behind defeating Russia abroad is easy (to understand). I already explained how, and Simon Newman offers some tips on how the tactical side of it might work in the Caucasus today."
It certainly ought to have been possible for the Georgians to sever south Ossetia from Russia. Once they had closed the only road tunnel (which, incredibly, they failed to do), they would have had a great oppotunity to hold the high mountain tracks against Russian counter-attack, and present a fait-accompli. Of course the Russians could still mounted a counter attack on Georgia via Abkhazia, but that would have created a very different political situation to a fight solely contained in south Ossetia.
The Georgians did perform miserably, surprisingly so. It's reminiscent of Israel's failure against Hezbollah in 2006 - although the Israelis had some breathing space for error as Syria is a lot lot weaker than Russia. Georgia had no room for error. IMO Saakashvili betrayed his country as surely as Bush betrayed his when he attacked Iraq.
Forget the Jewish thing (hard as that is to do). It´s obvious enough that Georgia has cultivated an insider U.S. press/militarist/neocon network that includes many non-Jews. From Christopher Hitchens (check out his cold-war style piece in Slate) to John McCain himself.
Also, funny to see testing99 screaming about the pipeline conspiracy -- in my experience that one has usually been the domain of hard leftists talking about why we *really* hit Afghanistan.
though unlike the USA they also famously got into government too
Perhaps, or perhaps because another bunch of criminals beat them to it.
I don't know about Paleocons, but there are many Jews who are Paleolibertarians, and conventional libertarians working at think tanks, blogs, college campuses and magazines.
"Forget the Jewish thing (hard as that is to do). It´s obvious enough that Georgia has cultivated an insider U.S. press/militarist/neocon network that includes many non-Jews. From Christopher Hitchens (check out his cold-war style piece in Slate) to John McCain himself."
Christopher Hitchens speaks about every foreign policy issure past and present in every part of the world as an expert. There's always one side with halos around their heads and another side that is reactionary and evil, and being an internationalist it's always everybody else's business.
He's maybe the most repulsive of the DC elite and that's saying a lot. It's not surprising he wrote an article that sounds like he's the president of Georgia's best friend.
albertosaurus - thanks for taking that rudeness in hand. I almost hit 400 years (Stephen Hopkins), but you top me there.
Whew. What a load of people who are so worried a Jewish influence might pass by unnoticed that they fall out the other side of the boat, finding false positives galore. And determined to be obviously insulting about it to boot. Some of you guys need to switch to decaf.
South Ossetia is legally part of Georgia. Is it possible to commit aggression against your own territory?
"Is it possible to commit aggression against your own territory?"
Hmmm. Ask the Serbs. Or better yet, Nato.
albertosaurus said:
Don't bother the nice Mr. Greenberg for guidance. My family has been here more like 400 years. I'll be happy to define you and provide you with opinions.
Definition: You are rude.
Your opinion: Irrelevant.
I don't presume to dictate opinions, based on seniority or anything else. Greenberg does presume to dictate opinions. (And so, apparently, do 400-year you - albeit facetiously.)
Showing up Greenberg's breathtaking arrogance does not equate to competing with him.
Definition: obfuscator. Your opinion: logic is rude. Shouldn't you change your avatar to an ink-squirting squid?
mussovili:
"Gottfried professes neutrality - he's not a promoter. He pretty much says other peoples have a right to their Israel's too and that he wouldn't get in their way. I doubt it though: if evry other people started expelling Jews he'd quickly cry foul. He just knows it's not gonna happen. Yet.
Auster doesn't even fake even-handedness. Israel's particularly Jewish status and right to discriminate against non-Jews is written in stone. Every other European people's state is simply majority white and Jews are to be full equals. Discrimination against Jews is absolutely forbidden in Austerism."
I think you can "promote European ethnic interests" without being anti-Jewish, and certainly without expelling Jews. I guess you disagree.
no david, you have missed the point. Albertosaurus often does make logical arguments. In this instance, he gave notice that a comment was so far beyond the pale that it required social sanction rather than refutation. The comment was not simply rude. It was rude in a manner which announced that insufficient thought was being put into it. I heartily approve of such social sanctioning. Without it, logical discussion cannot take place.
Post a Comment