I was pleased to receive an email from the Zorro of statisticians, the mysterious La Griffe du Lion. He wants to point out that the Fundamental Constant of Sociology applies even more closely to the FDNY test data than I made it appear:
In your fine article, Professor Gates, Officer Crowley, President Obama—And the New York Fire Department, you illustrate the fundamental constant of sociology using data from the FDNY exams. Your calculation assumes normal distributions with equal standard deviations for each group. (I have often uses these same assumptions.) For most cases they work well.
But on heavily g-loaded tests, the black distribution is usually a bit narrower, being roughly 90% that of the white. We can mostly ignore this difference. But in the tails, e.g., where say 97% of one group passes, the width disparity can be important.
I repeated your calculation with and without accounting for the disparate distribution widths:
For the case where whites and blacks pass at 89.9% and 60.3%, respectively, as on the 1999 FDNY test [when an 85% score was required to pass], the calculated black and white means are separated by 1.01 SD for equal-width distributions and 1.04 (white SDs) when different widths are factored in--hardly worth the effort.
But for the case where whites and blacks pass at 97.2% and 85.4%, respectively [on the 2002 test when the passing score was lowered to 70% to satisfy the EEOC's Four-Fifth's Rule], the calculated black and white means are separated by 0.86 SD for equal-width distributions and 0.96 (white SDs) when different widths are factored in.
Thus the fundamental constant is somewhat more robust than might at first appear using the simpler calculation.
Best,
--Griffe
My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer
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34 comments:
The worst thing about La Griffe du Lion is that he doesn't write more.
The worst thing about La Griffe du Lion is that he doesn't write more.
At least we know he is alive!
Also, to be fair, his publishing record has always been a bit sporadic, he might be about to unleash a whole new series of articles. I've no idea, just wishful thinking.
good old la griffe.
but the real fundamental constant of sociology is that in general only african men find african women to be attractive. if this were not true, the mean IQ of "black" citizens in mixed race nations would be slowly and steadily increasing. HBD thinkers vastly underestimate how much effect this phenomenon has on nations that participated in the african slave trade. steve has done one of his key articles on this, "Is Love Colorblind", but i haven't seen much math on the topic.
this is why the US will never become a mulatto nation, while it's entirely possible for a place like australia to eventually become a eurasian nation if it doesn't shut down large scale east asian immigration.
i'm not the only person to notice this, but with the way the current political system exists, a few mulatto americans are freeloading into high ranking positions on the back of affirmative action designed for full blooded africans. this is, for instance, an issue that bothers henry gates - despite him being exactly the kind of mixed race, part african person who has benefited from the situation. steve calls it "Rise of the Mulatto Elite".
Off topic: David Brooks has actually posted something thoughtful, thought-provoking and very much immigration related. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/opinion/28brooks.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Is it just me, or do others think that the writing style of La Griffe du Lion is VERY similar to the writing style of Douglas Hofstadter, the author of "Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid"? I've thought that from the very first time I read La Griffe.
Steve, feel free not to publish this if you have special insight and don't want to out La Griffe.
D. from Seattle
Jody, you said: "but the real fundamental constant of sociology is that in general only african men find african women to be attractive. if this were not true, the mean IQ of "black" citizens in mixed race nations would be slowly and steadily increasing."
This seems to tie in so well with this "theory" I may have developed about the origin of the practice of female genital mutilation(FGM) among Africans and Middle Easterners. I say I may have developed it since no one else has approached it from a racial angle before, unless I missed it somewhere.
Basically, black women and white women are different "down below". It has to do with size, and men of all races may generally find white women more agreeable when it comes to this body part. With this in mind, maybe you would think FGM is most common among the blackest of black Africans. Truth is, it isn't, and is much closer to being the opposite but with some interesting complications.
If you imagine a "line" running west to east through northern Africa, dividing the white race in the norther from the black race in the south, you would see that FGM seems to be clustered most heavily near this imaginary line. This racial "border" of course is extremely fuzzy and doesn't really exist, although this doesn't mean race doesn't exist. This "line" is in fact a reality in Sudan, since it is a battle line, with the whiter north and black African south having been at war forever(although a part of it, religion isn't the main factor in this conflict - northern brown-skinned semi-Arab Muslims regularly brutalize and displace southern black African Muslims in Darfur and parts of southern Sudan).
Having read the statistics and looked at numerous maps, it became apparent that not only is FGM extremely common along this racial border, but it is actually MORE common on the northern "whiter" side. In other words, FGM may have developed as a practice to make black or semi-black women appear to be more caucasian(the "whiter", semi-Arabized northern people of Sudan would generally be classified as "black" in the U.S, but they are fairer than the even blacker southern Sudanese). Besides this, they may have also thought it would help control the female sex drive and keep them faithful to their husbands. Based on STD statistics, blacks have significantly stronger sex drives compared to whites.
With black women generally being unattractive to men from other races, anything that could be done to make themselves whiter and more attractive was used to help make them more attractive to whiter men of higher status(many Sudanese women bleach their skin and straighten their hair for similar reasons). Another interesting set of statistics indicates that FGM is significantly more favored by women than by men in countries where it is widely practiced.
Is it just me, or do others think that the writing style of La Griffe du Lion is VERY similar to the writing style of Douglas Hofstadter, the author of "Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid"?
It's just you.
La Griffe has been outed already before.
He's Peter Orzag for those who don't know.
Don't be crazy. He's not Peter Orszag.
Everybody knows La Griffe is really David Axelrod.
"Basically, black women and white women are different "down below"."
Not in the direction you seem to be suggesting. Black women have narrower hips and smaller pelvic inlets (consequent to black babies having smaller heads).
The reasons black women are less attractive are visible to everyone. Don't over complicate things.
"thought it would help control the female sex drive and keep them faithful to their husbands"
This.
I think La Griffe writes a lot, but not on his own site. Moreover he reads an enormous number of books.
;-)
"This seems to tie in so well with this "theory" I may have developed about the origin of the practice of female genital mutilation(FGM) among Africans and Middle Easterners."
That comment was bizarre, and gross, and probably completely wrong. Two thumbs up!
"I was pleased to receive an email from the Zorro of statisticians, the mysterious La Griffe du Lion."
I just think it's hilarious that there is such a thing.
"good old la griffe."
Way to make me feel like a n00b, guys :-(
I believe Anon was talking about the size and length of the clitoris being longer in African women, not the size or depth of the vagina. That's what FGM is, after all, the trimming off of the clitoris.
I know nothing of what the actual data might be.
Whereas I am annoyed by the Gates matter I was frightened by the Sotomayor hearings. Gates was a muddle, as are most things which happen in real life. Sotomayor was a consciously tangled and sinister matter. I thought I had been transported back to the purges of Stalin's days. Her role would have been that of a Marxist theoretician, sitting in judgement of some poor lumpen.
She used such a technical vocabulary, well aware she was being watched by many middle class Americans who might be educated but not as versed in legalese as she.Yet she persisted, in open defiance of the nation and in servility to her ideology. Her attitude scared me.
"With black women generally being unattractive to men from other races, anything that could be done to make themselves whiter and more attractive"
There will never be extensive cohabitation/marriage among blacks and whites, but not so much because of attractiveness or not. To some extent we get used to what we're around and I am always surprised at how many quite plain looking women have better looking, even handsome husbands.
No, the reason there will never be extensive partnering between black and white has to do with their mentalities -- IQs in shorthand. Most married or long-term couples have IQs within a very few points of each other.
From what I can see, the great majority of mulattos born in the last few decades are the products of brief relationships where the white mother was infatuated or just curious about some black guy. Maybe she was just brainwased by the media and the PC crowd. The men were just lustful and disappeared pretty soon.
Now in these cases, the IQ of the black parent doesn't really come into it too much, as an attraction, though even in these cases the guy was probably a bit brighter than average for his race, but I don't know. Most mulattos fall halfway between the average white and average black IQ.
Anyway, no large scale black-white marriage/cohabitation scenario will ever occur as long as there are sufficient non-black potential partners available, barring considerable genetic engineering.
n/a, I noticed you appear to be on a one man crusade of sorts to refute Rushton's ordering of primary sexual characteristics across the races.
Whatever floats your boat I guess.
jody, I would qualify that statement. Women from certain East Africa countries (Ethiopia, Somalia and Eritrea) can be quite gorgeous by western standards of beauty.
"I believe Anon was talking about the size and length of the clitoris being longer in African women, not the size or depth of the vagina. That's what FGM is, after all, the trimming off of the clitoris."
In the geographical areas to which Anon was particularly referring -- a huge, mostly Muslim, band through the middle of Africa, especially east Africa, including Sudan, Somalia, Chad, Mali, and part of Ethiopia-- FMG is not just "trimming." It is the near complete removal of all flesh from the pubic area except for two flaps of skin the thickness of construction paper, which are then sewn tightly together, or secured with thorns. This is an "operation" that takes 15-20 minutes and is performed without anesthesia, usually by some old crone with a rusty knife. The child's legs are then tied together for 40 days to ensure the smallest, tighest opening possible--about the size of a matchhead.
When the girl is married a few years later, sexual initiation is a bloody massacre that may take weeks to months to complete and isn't much fun for the husband either. He gets burn marks on his organ. It beggers the imagination.
Usually the girl is between 4 and 9 when this is done. She is told it is to make her "pure." The adults know it is to make the woman smaller and tighter. So Anon is sort of right, though race isn't mentioned. These people think everyone dones this. They do believe that if the "parts" are not removed they will grow down, like Hottentots. So maybe there is something racial in that.
But everyone is very emphatic that part of the purpose of FMG is to give the man more "pleasure." Many women are re-sewn after every childbirth so that they must be literally torn open again. People who think FMG is just removing the clitoris don't understand why FMG is considered such a huge issue in the world debate about cultural realtivism. It's effects are devastating and yet the people make no correlation between this "operation" and the host of miseries that follow it. Since it is done so early, and they never see a normal adult woman, they don't realize what a normal childbirth or even a normal sex act is. As one gets into the more black looking "Arab" areas, the more extreme the FMG (though many black Africans have never practiced it.) As one goes north, into "white" Egypt, a relatively mild version is done which only removes the clitoris and is careful not to make the girl "smaller" lest she have trouble giving birth.
In Africa, concerning FMG, there is one rule: the blacker the population, the more severe the FMG is likely to be, if they are Islamic. They actually think this procedure is "modern" and makes the girl clean and healthy. (Hanny Lightfoot Klein, Prisoners of Ritual, 1989). Although genital mutilation of both genders is ancient in Africa, the full monty does seem to occur only when blacks come into contact with Islam, and this is strange because Islam DOES NOT prescribe female circumcision; only male. So it is an old, common but not universal, African custom which Islam made worse, for some reason. Maybe race did have something to do with it.
One thing though. As with footbinding in old China, it is often the men who are more progressive. They are, after all, the ones all this is being done for, so if they reject women who have it, or forbid it to be done to their daughters, then it ends. That is largely how footbinding in China ended--men, more likely to have been western educated and modern, put their own feet down, so to speak.
"I would qualify that statement. Women from certain East Africa countries (Ethiopia, Somalia and Eritrea) can be quite gorgeous by western standards of beauty."
I'll copy that, not so much the Somalis but the Ethopians and Eritreans, yes, I've dated one and quite liked the girl, bit of a nag but I was too young to realize that's just the way it is.
Are they not a Semetic people though? I don't think they belong lumped in with sub-Saharan blacks. In terms of language, DNA, and religion there seems to be different enough.
Wiki:
According to one prominent study on Y chromosomes published in the European Journal of Human Genetics, the Somalis are closely related to certain Ethiopian and Eritrean groups:
"The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population − closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya − with predominant E3b1 cluster lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000−5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa."[18]
Besides comprising the majority of the Y DNA in Somalis, the E1b1b (formerly E3b) genetic haplogroup also makes up the bulk of the paternal DNA of Ethiopians, Eritreans, Berbers, North African Arabs, as well as many Mediterranean and Balkan Europeans.[19] The M78 subclade of E1b1b is found in about 77% of Somali males which may represent the traces of an ancient migration into the Horn of Africa from the upper Egypt area.[18] After haplogroup E1b1b, the second most frequently occurring Y DNA haplogroup among Somalis is the Eurasian haplogroup T (M70),[20] which is found in slightly more than 10% of Somali males. Haplogroup T, like haplogroup E1b1b, is also typically found among populations of Northeast Africa, North Africa, Southwest Asia, and the Mediterranean.
...
There are many theories regarding the beginning of the Ethiopian civilization. One theory which has existed for many centuries in the Ethiopian legends and Ethiopian Orthodox Church states that it was founded by Semitic-speaking Sabaean migrants from Yemen and Western Saudi Arabia in the past.[citation needed] Another theory, which is more widely accepted today locates its origins in Africa, while acknowledging the influence of the Sabeans on the opposite side of the Red Sea.[5] At a later period, Ethiopian civilization was exposed to Judaic influence, of which the best-known examples are the Qemant and Ethiopian Jews (or Beta Israel) ethnic groups, but Judaic customs, terminology, and beliefs can be found amongst the dominant culture of the Amhara and Tigrinya.[6] Indian alphabets have been claimed as the example used to create the vowel system of the Ge'ez abugida.[7]
Re: hot Ethiopian chicks, this is more specific to Ethopian DNA:
Ethiopians are also among the most genetically diverse people in the world. A recent study based on cluster analysis that looked at a combined sample of Amhara and Oromo found that they share 62% of their genome with Caucasians, 24% with sub-Saharan Africans, 8% with Austro-Melanesians, and 6% with East Asians.[25]
Most Y-chromosome haplotypes in Ethiopia are of Haplogroup E1b1b or one of its derivatives. It exists at its highest level among the Oromo, where it represents 79.5% of the haplotypes, and it is also found at 45.8% among the Amhara. The haplogroup is thought to have originated in Ethiopia or elsewhere in the Horn of Africa 26,000 years ago, and is mostly characterized by E1b1b1a (M78), which arose later in north-eastern Africa and then back-migrated to eastern Africa.[26] Middle Eastern haplogroup J, characterised by the mutation 12f2a, is also found frequently in the Amhara and Tigray people. It exists at levels of about 35% among the Amhara, of which about 33% is of the type J-M267, almost all of which was acquired during Neolithic times or earlier, while 2% is of the derived J-M172 type representing admixture due to recent and historic migrations.[27]
Ethiopians' maternal ancestry is similarly diverse. About half (52.2%) of Ethiopians' belongs to mtdna Haplogroups L1, L2, L3, L4, L5, or L6. These haplogroups are generally confined to African continent. They also originated either in Ethiopia or very near. The other portion of the population belong to Haplogroup N (31%) and Haplogroup M1 (17%). [28] There is controversy surrounding their origins as either native or a possible ancient back migration into Ethiopia from Asia.
Researchers conclude that "Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."[29]
Mr. du Lion when you did your post on mass murders by race, did you see any evidence of Hispanics being classified as White when they are prepetrators but Hispanic when they are victims.
Would this change your conclusion that Hispanics aren't prone to commit mass murder. Am I unduly influenced by the many killings reported in Mexico?
Kent Gatewood
I believe Anon was talking about the size and length of the clitoris being longer in African women, not the size or depth of the vagina.
Vanessa Del Rio, a mulatto Puerto Rican I believe, is one useful data point.
I have known women who have had this outsize feature and all have called it a curse. If they wear tight pants or sit on hard surfaces, it becomes painful and very distracting. One older woman I know said she would have had it reduced in size if the surgery weren't so painful to recover from.
And of course it does nothing for male pleasure.
I don't think there is a significant racial difference in actual vaginal tunnel size apart from overall body size and overall muscle tone.
Somalis too. Their women can be quite gorgeous and the average is an Ayaan Ali Hirsi. Just don't confuse ethnic Somali with Bantu Somali.
Stopped Clock said...
"I believe Anon was talking about the size and length of the clitoris being longer in African women, not the size or depth of the vagina. That's what FGM is, after all, the trimming off of the clitoris.
I know nothing of what the actual data might be."
Stopped clock, you are correct. That is exactly what I(the Anon who developed this "theory" about FGM) was referring to. I readily admit this theory may be completely wrong and maybe it over-complicates things.
The other Anon poster seems to know exactly what I am talking about:
"In the geographical areas to which Anon was particularly referring -- a huge, mostly Muslim, band through the middle of Africa, especially east Africa, including Sudan, Somalia, Chad, Mali, and part of Ethiopia-- FMG is not just "trimming."
This is true. FGM is most common where the black and white races meet, and it is usually more severe in these black Muslim countries; however, it is much more common on the whiter/Islamic/Middle Eastern side of the "border" though more common the blacker the population up to a certain point, but generally not widespread among the blackest blacks(if you start from central Africa, you could rightly say FGM becomes more common the more caucasian the population, but up to a certain point). FGM is generally uncommon in central and southern Africa, in Congo, Zambia, Angola, Namibia, Mozambique. FGM is practiced among some tribes in Tanzania and even Kenya(though overall the rate of FGM is rather low for the country as a whole), where it is said the rate of FGM may be going down due to educational efforts, suggesting FGM isn't as ancient or entrenched in these countries compared to Sudan or Somalia where racism plays a more important part in maintaining this tradition.
Islam doesn't have a whole lot to do with FGM, since its practice long predates and transcends religion. Certain interpretations of Islam may have made FGM worse though, which Anon already suggested.
The data shows that FGM is common even in Egypt, but much more common in southern Egypt(well over 80% last I looked it up) than northern Egypt(25% or less). It is much more common in northern Sudan than southern Sudan. This pattern seems to repeat itself in Chad and Ethiopia and some other African countries. Even in Yemen across the Red Sea it seems to be more common in the area that has a lot of Africans. However, among the "purer" Arabs of Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, FGM is extremely rare. Strangely, a mild version of FGM is widely practiced among the non-Arabian Kurds of Iraq and Iran, which may also have something to do with race. Many Kurds and Iranian peoples in general look down on the Arabs. Among the Persians, FGM is virtually unknown. In India and Pakistan, surprise surprise, I've found that FGM is most widely practiced in the area where the most African slaves were brought to. It is virtually non-existent in the rest of India.
Many Egyptians are extremely racist toward the Sudanese, regardless of which part of Sudan they are from. Egyptians see almost all of the Sudanese as "black", and the Sudanese are resent this. The northern Sudanese see themselves as Middle Easterners or Arabs or caucasians, and see the southern Sudanese as black African savages.
The northern Sudanese not only hate the southern black(or rather "blacker") Sudanese but hate it when they are confused with the southern Sudanese. So they will do anything they can to dissociate themselves from the southern Sudanese. I think FGM is part of this. I am not saying that racism is the only reason FGM is practiced, but it seems to be an important factor.
No one ever talks about it from a racial angle though. Like so many other problems, the better we understand it, the better we stand a chance at solving them. FGM is a gruesome practice that I wish to see eradicated, but I favor a very "hands off" approach, except when it comes to Sudanese and Somali immigrants practicing it in my country.
"Most mulattos fall halfway between the average white and average black IQ."
And let's not forget that mulattos tend to inherit a lot of unattractive black features that make them undesirable to whites, as well as lighter skin that makes them more desirable to other blacks. So mulattos tend to breed back into the black community. Hence the gradual whitening of blacks in America.
I have heard that chinese men have a distince preference for petite women. I learned this from a chinese-american woman who was large breasted / not petite. She was very matter of fact about how her prospects were much better landing a caucazoid.
My point is that in china / asia it is the men that do the chosing and in the heart of africa it is the women.
ludwig, The only thing I'm getting from your post is that criticism of Rushton makes you uncomfortable.
Noted, I guess.
Takes a lot for text to make me cringe, but that did the trick. Thorns?
~Svigor
n/a, Rushton is a pioneer who's done great work. Having said that, any and all criticism of his pattern of racial ordering should be brought to the table. I suspect that while his racial ordering holds for many variables, for others it's probably not as robust or doesn't even hold at all.
So if it behooves you to challenge Rushton's ordering of primary sexual characteristics across the races, by all means, please do so.
Somebody has to find, pore over, and analyze all that data.
Most guys don't go for that kind of thing, you know, studying data on, say, penis size. But since it appears that you're more than happy to do so, we can only appreciate your effort and contribution to the truth.
An interesting follow-on is that penis size is mostly determined by the female line. IOW, if a woman's son has a big one, her sister's sons, her brothers and her maternal uncles probably do too. But does that make the women's clitorises bigger? I don't have any idea.
Certainly the general nationalities notorious for big penises are not necessarily notorious for big clitorises, but then again, who pays attention? It isn't talked of very much.
Vanessa Del Rio was famous in the early porn days for having the biggest clit there was, I've seen Japanese adult men whose penises weren't any bigger. I don't think she had any children so I don't know if that's a useful follow up.
"Takes a lot for text to make me cringe, but that did the trick. Thorns?"
~Svigor"
me too when I first heard it. But it is done. Actually it may be better than sewing because the type of thorns used had some sort of numbing substance in them, but I'm not sure about that. Anyway, the whole thing heals over leaving a long scar.
And the othe Anon is right--this terrible custom is at its most extreme where black meets white (Arab Islamic types.)
btw, in Africa Arabs and other middle eastern types are typically thought of as "white." This is an old, old racial designation, and I guess by comparison with very black bantus, they are indeed white.
I'm trying to understand these race/sex theories. If Africans have such stronger sex drives, why is pornography so prevalent in white/Asian nations? And shouldn't stronger sex drives make black women more attractive as sexual partners, at least in the short term?
Steve, have you heard anything from La Griffe lately? The last post on his site is from December 2008.
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