Here's a mildly interesting video on some guy who recruits aspiring fashion models in Brazil. He only looks in the southernmost province.
Before setting out in a pink S.U.V. to comb the schoolyards and shopping malls of southern Brazil, Alisson Chornak studies books, maps and Web sites to understand how the towns were colonized and how European their residents might look today.
The goal, he and other model scouts say, is to find the right genetic cocktail of German and Italian ancestry, perhaps with some Russian or other Slavic blood thrown in. Such a mix, they say, helps produce the tall, thin girls with straight hair, fair skin and light eyes that Brazil exports to the runways of New York, Milan and Paris with stunning success.
"I researched the genetic makeup of the city on the Internet." He said he likes small towns because they keep the Italian/German genetic make-up "more concentrated."
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120 comments:
He said he likes small towns because they keep the Italian/German genetic make-up "more concentrated."
Sometimes you wake up in the morning and read the headlines and wonder whether the future is being written by the iSteve-osphere:
Bizarre first training hit out for All Whites
By COEN LAMMERS in Benoni
Last updated 06:44 08/06/2010
stuff.co.nz
The All Whites' campaign in South Africa started in a bizarre fashion this morning when the first training was cut short because of the thick wood and coal fire smog from the surrounding Daveyton township.
Just before the team arrived a solid, smelly fog descended on the pitch of Sinaba Stadium and made it difficult to breath or even see the corner flags...
Interestingly, the local South African staff on the sidelines were bemused by all the fuss and could not see why a bit of smog could stop a training session of a national team...
Squalid shadows of South Africa's 'giraffe stadium'
Monday, 7 June 2010
news.bbc.co.uk
A stone's throw away from South Africa's striking "giraffe stadium" in Mpumalanga Province, soon to host World Cup matches, lies the village of Matsafeni - with a few dusty narrow roads, mud huts, rusty shacks and no toilets...
A model scout searches for the next Gisele Bündchen in a region known for genetic cocktails prized by the beauty industry.
Gisele looks 100% German to me.
Personally, I can't think of too many "genetic cocktails" that I consider supermodel material.
The comments by the model Alessandra Ambrósio and the veteran scout Dilson Stein, who discovered her and Gisele Bündchen, were interesting. Ambrósio, ensconced in her multi-million dollar Manhattan apartment, anticipates a demand for more "real women" as models and Stein sees a growing demand for black models. Is that what they really think, or are they just more knowledgeable about American P.C. than the younger model scout who looks for towns with "concentrated" German and Italian genes?
As a women, I can certainly tell when a women is good looking.
But when I think about looks that really grab me, it's always men that I think about. Surprise!
Maybe my tastes are a little off the norm, but when I think of really startling good looks, I think looks like:
Gregory Peck, especially in high Roman Holiday, Alec Baldwin, and Pierce Brosnan. It's a very Irish/Scottish look. I really wonder what their mothers looked like.
Likely not like Gisele Bündchen.
Personally, I can't think of too many "genetic cocktails" that I consider supermodel material.
Keisha Castle-Hughes [The Nativity Story].
Q'orianka Kilcher [The New World].
Moon Bloodgood [Journeyman, Terminator Salvation, Burn Notice, etc].
Dalia Hernández [Apocalypto].
Not sure whether Cote de Pablo qualifies [she might be pure-blood Castilian-Hapsburgian].
PS: Some of the old-timers at iSteve might remember Phoebe Cates [NSFW].
PPS: The historians at iSteve will recall that Ava Gardner was rumored to have a little injun blood in her.
Please Steve don't make Obama's mistake. The problem we all face in America is unemployment. Try and stay focused!
We have today a prominent American woman who has recently become unemployed from no fault of her own. She just spoke out on an issue that we can all agree on - the Jews have been in Israel for from three to five thousand years and that's long enough. Time to let someone else in. The esquimaux come immediately to mind.
She also has that "something different" look that the model scouts are looking for.
See
Albertosaurus
This is a nice trivial example of how news media approaches virtually every story, regardless of importance. They have a position they want to be true (lots of supermodels are from Brazil + Brazil is ostensibly a colorblind and interbred country = people are more attracted to hybrids = world is headed for a post-racial Utopia) and a conclusion which is reached before any research has been conducted (Brazilian supermodels are selected for their 'genetic cocktail', we will be seeing more non-white supermodels soon). Then they dig for info to prove their beliefs, and what do you know, the facts indicate something entirely different. But the NYT editors couldn't be wrong, so they duly report their initial (unsupported) conclusions as someone else's opinion--as a 'take-home message', with the actual content of the report deliberately downplayed.
I would suggest that the Brazillian models deemed not European enough for fashion modelling try their luck as hip hop video girls. Most hip hop models are part white, but many are Hispanic, since black men do not want women with black features. What they want is basically really tanned white girls. There's much entertainment in watching black women flip out over this fact.
Chris Brown even came out and said that he only likes light skinned girls. His new girlfriend is Half black, Half German:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2vaxw7l.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/1zdbprd.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/11v45n6.jpg
As a woman, I can certainly tell when a women is good looking. But when I think about looks that really grab me, it's always men that I think about. Surprise!
Maybe my tastes are a little off the norm, but when I think of really startling good looks, I think looks like: Gregory Peck, especially in high Roman Holiday, Alec Baldwin, and Pierce Brosnan. It's a very Irish/Scottish look. I really wonder what their mothers looked like. Likely not like Gisele Bündchen.
There aren't many Irish models or major Hollywood actresses. Make of that what you will.
The analogue is Hollywood's requisitioning Canadian girls mythologized in "Mulholland Drive".
Well I do always hear about the fashion industry being raaacccist.
Gisele looks 100% German to me.
Most overrated model ever. Fake breasts and mannish face.
Amusing how a video like this has to pass through the NYT's anti-thought crime spin machine.
So we get constant references to racial mixing ie "Brazil's unique genetic cocktail" in spite of the fact that the scout explicitly says that he's looking for areas that are as unmixed as possible, and in spite of the fact that the 13 year old potential models he is approaching are obviously white European types of German or Italian ancestry, and not your typical Brazilian "mix".
Do they do this deliberately, to avoid the PC censorship, or are they literally capable of doing this sort of "double think" without being aware of it?
There is the mean of the distribution and the tails. When it comes to mean and especially the right tail of the distribution of typical model beauty (and probably standard notions of female human beauty in general) it seems that he is searching the correct areas in Brazil. As someone noted, when the mixed race melting pot vision turns out to be an empirical nightmare, just ignore the facts or focus on an outlier to 'prove' your point.
"There aren't many Irish models or major Hollywood actresses. Make of that what you will."
FYI: Catherine Zeta Jones. (She's Welch, not Irish.)
My next door neighboor is from Ireland. She's a stunner, easily as good looking as any of the women in this video.
Just pointing out that you really don't have to go all the way to Brazil to find good looking European women. Try Oregon. Or Kansas.
Or course, Brazil sounds very exotic.
I agree about the employment thing. We're getting lost.
Another shameless human interest non-news story from the New York Times. I stopped subscribing years ago.
-Puritan Descendent in SF
Personally, I can't think of too many "genetic cocktails" that I consider supermodel material.
------------
What are you smoking? In addition to those mentioned previously:
Leryn Franco (the paraguayan olympian who was all the rage in 2008)
Jessica Alba
Kristen Kreuk
Misa Campo
Nicole Scherzinger
Kate Beckinsale
Patricia Velasquez
Halle Berry (I also find Beyonce and Rihanna's faces to be quite beautiful)
Giselle looks like a horse in comparison, not to mention Lindsey Vonn who is a mannish-looking troll.
Mixed men that are considered among the best looking men include:
Enrique Iglesias
Wentworth Miller
Dean Cain
Never seen uglier girls than in a tour of Ireland
Wow that one girl Michelle had great facial bone structure but also a much softer, cuter look than Giselle.
Honestly if it weren't for American dietary habits and media jaded youth could probably send this guy into the U.S. hinterlands and find similar girls. I think it was also a plus for this scout that these girls were POOR, AGRARIAN whites which means to me pragmatic and possibly taking a less romantic view of this as a financial opportunity.
My sense is that they are probably somewhat more protected than a totally media saturated lifestyle than American youth, and possible much easier to treat as a blank slate.
I never found Gisele Bundchen that attractive and thought her face wasn't that great and was unusual. I always presumed that this was due to Amerind or African admixture.
The whole thing about "mixed race" people being better locking is a bust, as far as I'm concerned.
"Mixed race" people are not more or less good looking than non "mixed race" people.
It's a marketing myth to get people to buy stuff.
Back to the jobs report . . .
-Puritan Descendant in SF
Agreed that Giselle is overrated. As One said, she's mannish and flat-chested. Indeed, most high fashion models are, as were all the girls in that video. But what do you expect from an industry dominated by homosexual men? Unsurprisingly, all the female models end up having the physiques of underdeveloped boys. I wonder if that's not what D'Ambrosio was referring to when she mentioned more realistic-looking women. And, of course, D'Ambrosio herself has the figure of a 13 year old boy, though she at least has a decent face.
As far as demand for more black models, maybe there is amongst those in the fashion industry who want to push their perverted standards of beauty on us, but certainly not among most people.
"Honestly if it weren't for American dietary habits and media jaded youth could probably send this guy into the U.S. hinterlands and find similar girls."
American girls are too fat.
They eat shit like McDonald's all the time and much on potato chips all day. Not exactly building model physiques with that diet.
These rural Brazilian girls are naturally thin, tall and can maintain their physique because their diet doesn't include a lot of fast food.
one of the biggest lies on the internet is that brazilian women are hot or "latina" women are hot.
on average, the women in latin america are pretty homely. maybe 5% of them are good looking. the rest are unattractive mongrels, short fat american indians, or africans.
pretty much every "Latinas are hot!" or "Brazilian women!" thread is always followed by guys posting the same 10 genetically european women over and over.
a couple of the most famous brazilian supermodels are straight up ethnically german, polish, or italian. not even mixed with other europeans, but pure blooded descendants of immigrants to brazil.
In Brazil, there are many terms for different racial types, the "one drop rule" not prevailing. The "morena" (dark skin, straight hair, more or less European features--think Sônia Braga or Salma Hayek, the latter of Spanish and Lebanese descent) is considered highly attractive. Other types less, so, such as the sarará, with light skin and hair, but African features and curly or kinky hair. Such as this:http://i.olhares.com/data/big/36/363696.jpg or this: http://bneianussim.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/imagem-015.jpg
speaking of ethnic groups, it's probably time for a "Why are Czechoslovak women so attractive?" thread. it's flat out insane how much better looking they are, woman for woman, than all other european women.
veronica zemanova and denise milani are both czech. and the bodyrock.tv woman is czech.
if you break down where women in porn come from, women from the czech republic, slovakia, and hungary have to be represented at rates like 50 times higher than their population.
"Honestly if it weren't for American dietary habits and media jaded youth could probably send this guy into the U.S. hinterlands and find similar girls."
American girls are too fat.
They eat shit like McDonald's all the time and much on potato chips all day. Not exactly building model physiques with that diet.
These rural Brazilian girls are naturally thin, tall and can maintain their physique because their diet doesn't include a lot of fast food.
Wrong. I agree with Jody.
White American girls, at least the smarter ones, do try to watch their diets and keep in shape. Because black and Hispanic girls generally don't, it skews our stats to seem far more unfavorable than they are.
If Miss Oklahoma here (you know, the non-PC one who lost her chance to be Miss America to an Arab in the last contest) went to live in Florianopolis and picked up a silky Portuguese accent, she would likely get a job in the modeling industry in no time flat.
http://coedmagazine.com/2010/05/17/miss-oklahoma-morgan-elizabeth-woolard-the-real-miss-usa-81-pics/
I hope there's not some kind of a 'peak model' phenomenon; that would be a drag.
on average, the women in latin america are pretty homely. maybe 5% of them are good looking.
From what I've seen in the US, 75+% are real cows by the time they hit 25 y/o.
Those of you ragging on Gisele's face are forgetting some basic facts about modeling. The fashion industry doesn't always go for beautiful as much as it goes for striking -- women who turn heads. If Gisele walked into a room, everyone would notice her. She is also one of the most beautiful women at her height (5'11"). There may be women a lot prettier than her at 5'4". They can become actresses, but for modeling, 5'4" doesn't work.
Gisele is also striking in that she has a more athletic and curvier body type than most models (and commenters who think she is "flat chested" or has fake breasts are nuts).
Can't believe no one has mentioned two of the most successful, and most mixed Brazilian modes, Adriana Lima and Aline Nakashima.
Models with no make up:
http://i45.tinypic.com/skvm2x.jpg
I found it interesting that most of the comments at the NYT site were critical of the article's anti-white slant.
In Brazil, men prefer women who are what black men in America call "thick." It's similar to how women were supposed to look in America several generations ago, before the Twiggy look and later the cocaine chic look started to predominate in the media. There are beautiful women in Brazil of all racial types, including nordic blondes, who look like this. Brazilians are puzzled that emaciated women without well developed butts and thighs can be considered sex symbols.
It's not just that American women are overweight, they are unfeminine. Americans who haven't traveled much seem unaware of just how abnormal American women are in this regard.
"As a women, I can certainly tell when a women is good looking.
But when I think about looks that really grab me, it's always men that I think about. Surprise!
Maybe my tastes are a little off the norm, but when I think of really startling good looks, I think looks like:
Gregory Peck, especially in high Roman Holiday, Alec Baldwin, and Pierce Brosnan. It's a very Irish/Scottish look. I really wonder what their mothers looked like.
Likely not like Gisele Bündchen."
I agree with you. I think the absence of Irish/Scottish/English type women has to do with what Hollywood is selling, which is basically an exotic/ambiguous darker look marketed towards certain white guys or the extremely Nordic looking women that have always been a popular staple in the entertainment/fashion/modeling industry. The women who don't fall on either end of this dark/light spectrum don't get much attention anymore and haven't for several years. Most white American women outside of the heavily Germanic mid-west and the Slavic/Italian pockets of the northeast fall into this category, I guess.
"American girls are too fat.
They eat shit like McDonald's all the time and much on potato chips all day. Not exactly building model physiques with that diet.
These rural Brazilian girls are naturally thin, tall and can maintain their physique because their diet doesn't include a lot of fast food."
Most upper middle class American girls are on the thin side though. Nearly half of these(mostly white) girls play sports in high school and as a result form good exercise habits that typically continue at least into their mid to late 20s. Perhaps people don't pick up models in the U.S because simply sounds less interesting/exotic than Eastern Europe or Brazil. Or maybe American girls are shorter, or possibly less interested in the modeling business. There's a lot of variables at work.
Well there's articles on there on the differences between models and the kind of women that men really want to see, who appear in porno magazines. I personally think that there's attractive ones in both categories and disgusting ones in both categories. But fashion models aren't out there to appeal to men. They appear in ladies magazines and are selected because they look good modeling clothes. A lot of them are plain faced and somewhat forgettable because the clothing or wristwatch or whatever else is supposed to be the real star.
"White American girls, at least the smarter ones, do try to watch their diets and keep in shape."
I'd like to see stats on this, because I just don't buy this.
I'd specifically like to see stats comparing white American girls to white European girls (German, Eastern European, and Italian specifically since these are the common type of backgrounds for models) on metrics like average height and weight.
The reason I want this data is that in Europe, the common dress sizes are actually smaller than in America (owing to fat cows).
Yes, Miss Oklahoma is a fox. But I am not sure she is representative of a lot of white American girls.
I just don't see lots of tall, good-looking and thin white girls who can keep their figures walking around Middle America.
Let's be realistic here: these rural Brazilian girls are European girls with a Latin flair (mostly of German & Italian background).
The fashion industry wants thin Euro girls, not American cows.
The woman/girl I consider to be one of the most beautiful women has never made any man's list of beautiful women, that I've seen, is Olivia Hussey when she was in Zefferelli's "Romeo and Juliet". Zefferelli also said her co-star in R&J was the most beautiful boy he had ever laid eyes on (Leonard Whiting).
Hussey is half English, half Argentine (undetermined Argentine ethnicity).
About the Irish... as my brother might say, the Celts have a tendency to "blow up". I would also think the typical modern diet can't be too good for their skin, either (in the same way alcohol and sugar hurt them more than others). The Amish girls I've seen, and who eat very differently, have the best skin and figures I've seen of Germanic and Celtic women or any women for that matter. Despite their harder lives, if she has the right bone structure and is symmetrical, an Amish girl can be quite stunning. The bonnets help their skin, too. Porcelain white skin and rosy cheeks seem to exist only with young children and Amish/Mennonite girls.
I think some people are getting "Supermodel" confused with "attractive."
The term "Supermodel" implies a very specific thing - at least 5-9 to 5-11 and with very specific facial features (high cheekbones and sharp angles) and very specific ratios of height to hip size etc.
Asian women are generally too short to be supermodels, and black women are generally too thick. White and/or nordic women have something of an advantage.
There's lots of ATTRACTIVE women on the planet (including racially mixed ones) that aren't supermodels.
I've heard that the models nowadays increasingly come from Brazil and Eastern Europe. Probably there are body types of women in these regions that look good modeling, but why from there and relatively fewer from Scandinavia or the U.S. now?
Maybe it's because of the high risk stakes of fashion modeling. Most of them have to get into it by the time of 18, which means leaving high school. And you guys do know about the statistics for people who drop out of high school right? If you live in an economically bleak place like Eastern Europe or Brazil, where 80% of middle class people don't go to college, where a basic nursing job that any woman can do doesn't easily pay $60K, where you grew up dirt poor and have nothing to lose, then you might be more inclined to take that risk.
Probably most middle class American (or Scandinavian or German) parents aren't going to send their daughters off to New York City to model where they have a low chance of eventual success (even it means making millions of dollars) and a very high chance of becoming hooked on cocaine.
Models are selected by homosexuals, so it's not surprising they are thin and boyish.
In Brazil, they seem to prefer more "vibrant" looks and activities:
http://gawker.com/5556758/hot-new-dance-craze-slamming-your-butt-into-someones-face
"I agree with you. I think the absence of Irish/Scottish/English type women has to do with what Hollywood is selling, which is basically an exotic/ambiguous darker look marketed towards certain white guys or the extremely Nordic looking women that have always been a popular staple in the entertainment/fashion/modeling industry."
I am sorry, but if you have ever been to Scotland, you would know that the average Scottish woman is seriously unattractive.
After reading some more of the comments it dawned on me that a farming family scraping by year to year might take the risk of letting their girls go to NY or LA or wherever because even if they don't end up making it they might end up marrying a well paid professionional who doesn't have to farm for a living.
I mean I don't have stats, but my guess is that most high-end aspiring models like the ones that come through that agency don't exactly living on the streets. I'm sure they end up being cared for or going back to their homes a little more worldly which may in fact also boost their marital prospects in the home country.
I really think
you can't rule this out. People in more "modern" middle class settings hedge their bets much more.
I'm second to no one where having fun judging the hotness of models goes. But it never hurts to remember that fashion models don't exist (and don't have careers) because of us guys and our reactions to them. They exist (and have careers) because
1) women like looking at 'em (and doing whatever it is women do when they look at fashion photos: dreaming about 'em, imagining themselves as them, etc), and
2) the fashion business thinks they're striking/effective/make-the-clothes-look-good, etc.
It's got nothing (or next to nothing) to do with hetero-guy reactions at all.
Other point: At this point in the U.S., the kinds of girls who are attractive and slim - the kinds of girls who in another era might have been models -- are generally girls who can get college educations and land sensible jobs. They've got options. One of the things about girls from poor countries (and/or poor backgrounds generally) is that they don't have many other options. Plus they're thrilled to be chosen, and to make money, and be celebrated, etc. You can often see that in them and in their modeling work -- they're eager to please and happy to be here, playing along. Equivalently eager and desperate girls in the U.S. these days are generally fat.
If it's that simple and he wanted "German looking" girls, why didn't he go to Germany?
>Most upper middle class American girls are on the thin side though. Nearly half of these(mostly white) girls play sports in high school and as a result form good exercise habits that typically continue at least into their mid to late 20s. Perhaps people don't pick up models in the U.S because simply sounds less interesting/exotic than Eastern Europe or Brazil. Or maybe American girls are shorter, or possibly less interested in the modeling business. There's a lot of variables at work.
They are also liberal or progressive anti- anti- antisteveosphere as you can get. Its funny how this caste of American whites is valorized here when convenient!
The preponderant Irish-English-German combination in the US is not a very good "cocktail" and produces women well below average by western standards.
Combine the wetsern processed diet and you have very mediocre women indeed.
Well, as my blunt Sicilian sister advised me: "When choosing a mate, help the family take a step up on the evolutionary scale."
We had more than a few knuckle dragging relatives in the old country.
Another thing to mention is that attractive women in the US have many more options to make money off their looks than just fashion modeling on Madison Ave - they can become prom queens, strippers, pro cheerleaders, marry a rich dude, pose in maxim/playboy etc. The list goes on and on.
In fact, looks can give US women the edge in seemingly legitimate business professions - think Erin Andrews or most of the hot young female pharmaceutical sales reps that you see.
Additionally, in the US the beautiful women are identified well before age 12 and if they're going to make a living off their looks there's no "discovery" necessary - they're already being pushed in that direction. Think JonBenet Ramsey.
"It's a very Irish/Scottish look."
I'm sure it's definitely not Irish. Irish men tend to look neanderthals.
One of us anons posted a list of genetic cocktails, bonny lasses all, no argument there.
But included was Kate Beckinsale. Wikipedia tells us that she had a half-Burmese great-grandparent. Why didnt they just cut to the chase and say she had a Burmese great-great-grandparent? Because it didnt sound suitably exotic?
So she is 1/16 Burmese and as far as we know, 15/16 British in ancestry.
Thats not so much a cocktail as a drink with a dash of flavoring.
Never seen uglier girls than in a tour of Ireland
Wtf! You must have been looking in the wrong places mate.
This English bloke begs to differ.
The Irish/English/Scottish/Welsh/German mixes so common hasn't produced girls uglier than their counterparts in Europe. Really, as one commentator put it, the average girl in these countries is a bulbous, pasty thing, whose primary hobby is eating and pining for celebrities in front of the tele. American girls are far more attractive, even including our own hefers, than these countries averages. And its because of patriachy and corn syrup.
pretty much every "Latinas are hot!" or "Brazilian women!" thread is always followed by guys posting the same 10 genetically european women over and over.
Often get the same scenario with Indian girls, they will be Indian but look European. Wasnt this on a thread at isteve the other day in fact?
I visited that part of Brazil in the '90s. Stunningly beautiful. The Iguacu Falls weren't bad either.
If there's any industry where we have no reason to suspect the slightest bit of scientific efficiency, it would be talent scouting for supermodels. Why should we even take seriously what anybody says about the reasons for finding supermodels in Brazil? The fact is that you could look any place with white women. Like Iowa. But what else is in Iowa? Corn. What else is in Brazil? Beaches.
Brazil is a big tourist destination. And by some odd coincidence, this is where talent scouts want to look for the next generation of supermodels. Unless somebody here has seen with their own eyes the unbearable beauty of Brazilian women, shouldn't we just assume that they are doing this for the same reason corporate types like to hold meetings 10,000 miles from home?
if you have ever been to Scotland, you would know that the average Scottish woman is seriously unattractive.
Compared to the average woman anywhere else?
The defence calls Karen Gillan, the new Dr Who sidekick.
Yeah, so she's not average, but when you get into the realms of top flight totty, who is?
On the whole Ireland is one of those countries that produces better looking men than women. The men, when they are at all good looking, also project more sex appeal. There's a load of Irish actors, and Irish descended actors, but not so much actresses or female performers. You don't think of it that way, but it's one of the "peacock" cultures, deep down. One of the places where the men steal the show for expression and display, when they get the chance.
Still, one of the most beautiful human beings that ever lived, Maureen O'Hara, was Irish and there is a certain high-boned, cleared-eyed, dark-haired look that, while not typical, can easily be identified as Irish when you see it, and is striking if not beautiful. The girls in the group Corrs are some of the prettiest I've ever seen.
Many say they've never seen a Servian man that wasn't handsome but it doesn't extend to the women so much, to my disappointment; other say the Iceland women are beauties, the men ugly. I'll have to investigate.
As far as Italians, generally the men are better looking. Hungary--both genders are equally ok. I think it's the water.
The British and French have been calling each other ugly for centuries, the French complaining about, of all things, scrawny arms of English ladies everybody now accuses of being bloated. Who'd a thunk it?
Anonymous said...
"It's a very Irish/Scottish look."
another Anonymous said..."I'm sure it's definitely not Irish. Irish men tend to look neanderthals."
Anonymous the Latter, are you English?
The Irish/English/Scottish/Welsh/German mixes so common hasn't produced girls uglier than their counterparts in Europe.
Thats a pretty standard mixture round these parts (UK). Now we have a lot of recently arrived Polish girls to compare them with, our girls aint looking too good.
I think thats a lot to do with diet and lifestyle though, our indigenous girls could shape up a bit.
Better diet, exercise, less boozing, better clothes. These are all categories the Polish girls seem to do do better in. Its certainly not all genetic. Its not exactly that the Poles are prettier, they just seem to exude a more wholesome...er...wholesomeness.
"Additionally, in the US the beautiful women are identified well before age 12 and if they're going to make a living off their looks there's no "discovery" necessary - they're already being pushed in that direction. Think JonBenet Ramsey."
Oh come on. Baby beauty contests are not THAT common. Most girls who go for modeling get into in their early teens. Also--many a beautiful child has turned into a so-so adult. You can't tell with children.
They are also liberal or progressive anti- anti- antisteveosphere as you can get.
Not necessarily. If they gas on about "racism", then yes, sure, you got a commie pinko. But most don't.
The preponderant Irish-English-German combination in the US is not a very good "cocktail" and produces women well below average by western standards.
Perhaps... I will admit that it seems that A) Norwegian and Swedish blood (in the Midwest and Northwest), and B) Northeast British blood (in the South), go a long way in helping to produce "veela" types in this population.
Thanks boys!
I think that Irish-Scottish-English women are currently not popular in movies because we tend not to have the pumped lip look.
But, yes, I also think that many women of Scottish-Irish-English descent are stunningly beautiful, even if currently not in fashion in Hollywood or the fashion industry.
Dear God: the Celtic/Germanic sniping has hit a new level. Seriously, were they running a Band of Brothers marathon on Spike TV again? Did that LOL Celtic Thunder roadshow disgrace your local arena? BamaGirl, you have a lot to answer for.
French beauty in McDonald's ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBuKuA9nHsw&feature=player_embedded
Brazilians are cheap labour with few alternatives.
Ouch! French good looks:
For me, nothing compares to Jean-Paul Belmondo in his heyday.
"Dear God: the Celtic/Germanic sniping has hit a new level. Seriously, were they running a Band of Brothers marathon on Spike TV again? Did that LOL Celtic Thunder roadshow disgrace your local arena? BamaGirl, you have a lot to answer for."
Hey, I only made one comment vaguely referring to "Celtic" type people. All the various "anonymous es" had more to say it seems...
ATBOTL: In Brazil, men prefer women who are what black men in America call "thick." It's similar to how women were supposed to look in America several generations ago, before the Twiggy look and later the cocaine chic look started to predominate in the media.
Difference Maker: Models are selected by homosexuals, so it's not surprising they are thin and boyish.
"Thick" is what a healthy, fertile, fecund young woman looks like.
Heroin chic anorexia = little to no body fat = no menses.
A chick needs a fair degree of fat on her body just to support a menstrual cycle.
But the Culture-of-Death nihilists who control Hollyweird & Madison Avenue nowadays want no part in promoting anything which could possibly be construed as being even remotely related to fertility and fecundity.
"I am sorry, but if you have ever been to Scotland, you would know that the average Scottish woman is seriously unattractive."
I wasn't really making a remark on how attractive they were. More referring to why they aren't popular in the entertainment industry. I would imagine that they aren't much better or worse looking than English or Irish women though. Perhaps this is a bad example, but most girls in the inland mountainous south have a good deal of Scottish ancestry, and they don't seem particularly unattractive as long as they are a reasonable weight.
Kelly Macdonald, in Café and No Country, gave two of the most powerful performances of the last 15 or 20 years.
Why that chick is not a superstar is beyond me.
Oh, and she was born in Glasgow.
PS: If you people don't think that Anglo chicks like Cate Blanchett, Kate Winslet, Tilda Swinton, and Emma Thompson are crawl-over-broken-glass/to-die-for stunningly beautiful, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
"Anonymous the Latter, are you English?"
No not at all. I"m American with a mix that's not even worth tracing. Maybe 1/16 Danish, a little bit of Cherokee, etc. You get the picture.
Are you Irish? If not then maybe you can be honest about this. Pay attention. Many of the men look slightly deformed.
Brazil is a pretty popular destination for organized sex tours, isn't it? They must have some appeal.
If you type into the Google search box. "Why are Irish..."
The first result suggestion (the most popular input) automatically generated is "Why are Irish people so ugly?"
Type in "Why are Scottish..."
And the results are related to other concerns.
This is a blog for people to point out objective differences between groups. The popular opinion is Irish people (both men and women) are not attractive.
Sure there are a few exceptional exceptions like the Corrs girls but this is supposed to be a blog full of people who understand statistics.
Kelly Reilly!
A far more interesting question from the New York Times articles.
“Since I got to this school, five have left for São Paulo to become models,” she said. “The girls who do not have money to go to university will have to stay here and work in the fields.
"At a small tobacco farm he visited Michele Meurer, a blue-eyed 16-year-old discovered while riding her bicycle to school. Timid and shy, she cried profusely the first time she went to São Paulo. The next time, she lasted six days before Mr. Chornak sent her home.
Her mother, who grew up speaking German, had never left the town until the São Paulo trip. They live in a four-room house with chickens and dogs. Michele keeps the freezer in her room for lack of space. "
Why is this small state of predominately German and Italian ancestry so poor?
European women stay in shape longer than American women partly because they walk/stand more each day.
I lost weight while in Europe because I didn't have access to a car, and couldn't afford cabs. I walked a LOT, and stood at bus stops, etc. My lifestyle at home is much more sedentary.
At least a half dozen of you have asked why the model scout doesn't go to another country to look for talent (to Iowa in the U.S., or to Germany, etc.). Did you watch the video? The scout is Brazilian. Which is why he is looking in Brazil.
To the last poster, eat a german sausage with your whine! Please! The whole commentary about ALL girls from the Islands Of The North Atlantic is that cultural factors are so obviously prevalent in determingly beauty. Take a lass from Connemara or the Yorkshire hinterlands, put her on a beach in Australia for 10 years witha good diet (no effin potatoes and beer), and see what happens, as opposed to what stays behind, or grows at home. Natural selection? Maybe, but lets not devolve into petty ethnic haw-hawing to arrive at such dubious results.
Straight Brazilian guys (the scout's name is Alisson!) prefer mixed women with nice asses. But NY-London-Paris-Milan wants skinny white girls so that's what they $end. Occam's Razor folks.
Brazil is very mixed racially party because miscegenation was promoted by the Portuguese colonialists: http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Portuguese_Brazilian_Studies/ejph/html/issue9/html/mmata_main.html
Those gawker videos are AWESOME!!!!!!
Anonymous wrote:
Models with no make up:
http://i45.tinypic.com/skvm2x.jpg
---------------------------
Wow. They are so thin and pale they look like concentration camp survivors. And most of them have freakishly high foreheads. Their heads seem too big for their emaciated bodies.
If you look up page 11 of John Gunther's Inside Latin America (London, 1967), you'll find that in wonderful melting-pot Brazil employers were continuing, as of 1966 (and in defiance of anti-discrimination laws already more than a decade old), to place advertisements in newspapers seeking "light-skinned" employees. Goodness knows what Brazilian dating agencies must have been (and still are?) like in this regard.
Nobody's mentioned Samoa (that is, the former Western Samoa, I'm not sure about American Samoa), which has some stunners. Pity that Margaret Mead wrote such garbage about the place. But as a Google search will show, former Miss Samoa Maryjane McKibbin-Schwenke, who played the man-devouring heroine of the movie SIONE'S WEDDING - dealing with Samoan expatriates in New Zealand - is very easy on the eye. (Sorry, guys, she's married.)
Yeah, I'm not too sure about any heterosis effect for mixed folks. I tend to think that people look for what is convenient for them when it comes to this.
If you look at computer generated averages of racial groups (here including African, Northern European, South Asian and East Asian - compare mixed with white or oriental or desi or african) it's obvious there's nothing too impressive there (probably the mixed race face is less attractive to the average person, not more, at least it is to me), so I think things must be explained through a heterosis effect if you are saying that racially mixed people are more attractive.
One thing I think I saw gnxp poster agnostic state was that the heavy pathogenic load of Brazil may have selected for good looks, rather than heterosis as such being the only thing in play. That seems fairly plausible to me. I think the difference in sun, hedonistic culture and the fact that Brazilians are more scantily clad may make a difference as well. Plus, they're theoretically fairly cheap.
speaking of ethnic groups, it's probably time for a "Why are Czechoslovak women so attractive?" thread. it's flat out insane how much better looking they are, woman for woman, than all other european women.
veronica zemanova and denise milani are both czech. and the bodyrock.tv woman is czech.
if you break down where women in porn come from, women from the czech republic, slovakia, and hungary have to be represented at rates like 50 times higher than their population.
Czechs are highly cognizant of having tremendous babeage among their numbers. In contrast to all the disdainful fussing and snorting in here about "ethnic cocktails", they usually, if asked to theorize, suggest that their nation's good female looks are connected to their history of being invaded, raped, and pillaged with almost clockwork regularity down the centuries, leaving the people a strange and wonderful melange of Celt, old Slav, German, Pole, Magyar, Austrian, Swede, French, Russian...lord only knows what else...there's probably some Hun, Turk, and gypsy in there, too.
It's been suggested on this blog before that there is a kind of inverse relationship between male and female good looks in a bloodline. In this thread, there seems to be some sort of a consensus that darkish Celt men are some kind of standard for handsomeness, while the women...not so much. Czechs are maybe a good inverse case, as the men tend to be somewhat...odd-looking and not too infrequently a bit effeminate. Indeed, there have been a number of articles in the local press here recently about how a vast amount of global gay twink porn comes out of Prague.
I am sorry, but if you have ever been to Scotland, you would know that the average Scottish woman is seriously unattractive.
but the ones that are beautiful are not of this world beautiful - that fair skin-raven hair-red lips-on fire green eyes....
I agree on average scotland is so so but their best are the best.
people here are saying that english, irish scottish girls are not pretty.
but.. in america by far the best looking girls are of that mix - the california descendants of confederate/southerners, southern girls (north carolina anyone? ) and so forth.
the midwest - more german polish, scandinavian - has a rep for dumpiness.
Of course when i say 'american' girls i mean white-
"Sure there are a few exceptional exceptions like the Corrs girls but this is supposed to be a blog full of people who understand statistics."
Blind me with science so I don't see what's in front of my eyes, why don't you. The google example you give -- "why are the (fill in the blanks) so ugly (or fat or stupid) is a standing google joke in which the masses gleefully participate and most nations and peoples have been victimized by it. Not Hungarians to my knowledge, though. However, they are a verbally obscene bunch and would curse whoever disses them most creatively. Personally I am French, Spanish, Irish, English, Welsh and probably Basque. I would say the Irish ancestor was among the best looking of the lot that I've seen pictures of.
I credit statistics about hard facts, not opinions. Russian women had no rep for beauty 30 years ago. Now it's another story. I can't go anywhere where hotness is discussed and not get "Russian women are hot." Specifically, Ukrainian women are hot, and that surpised the hell out of me when I first heard it because I was recalling some Ukrainian girls I knew. The Irish are certainly no worse or better than other peoples in that geographic area.
Here the traditional "hotness" of Brazilian mulattas is hardly acknowleged at all yet "statistically" it has been a heavily loaded opinion for some time. There have been whole novels and sociological studies on the subject of beautiful Brazilian mulattas. Yet here I read they ain't all that much and look for the Germans among them.
I get statistics. But some things are opinions that are just too subjective and do change over time. I think there are a couple of anti-Irish commenters that post regularly on a couple blogs I read. The derogatory comments sound similar.
From my experience, even when not particularly beautiful, Irish girls are often still attractive due to their personalities. Kiwi girls, on the other hand, tend to combine extreme homeliness with a fair degree of unpleasantness. American girls are often very genetically beautiful, but we'll leave off speaking of their personalities...
"The Amish girls I've seen, and who eat very differently, have the best skin and figures I've seen of Germanic and Celtic women or any women for that matter. Despite their harder lives, if she has the right bone structure and is symmetrical, an Amish girl can be quite stunning. The bonnets help their skin, too. Porcelain white skin and rosy cheeks seem to exist only with young children and Amish/Mennonite girls."
Genetic studies have proven that the Amish and other similar groups are around 10-15% Asian genetically.
Tilda Swinton, in particular, has a very British Isles look.
I'm not saying it's more or less attractive than other cultures. However, to me, it is beautifully familiar, as my grandparents where pretty much all from the British Isles, at some point.
In the same way, Alec Baldwin is beautifully familiar. Frankly, he looks, sounds and even behaves like my Dad did. How I miss my father's oddities, sarcasm and quick wit.
"people here are saying that english, irish scottish girls are not pretty.
but.. in america by far the best looking girls are of that mix - the california descendants of confederate/southerners, southern girls (north carolina anyone? ) and so forth."
I agree, the "British isles and British isles descended peoples are unattractive meme" that seems to be kinda prevalent here is a bunch of nonsense.
this is supposed to be a blog full of people who understand statistics
Really. And how, exactly, are statistics supposed to prove the objective attractiveness of the women (or men) of a population group? Because apart from things like excess facial hair, or traits indicative of conditions such as Down Syndrome or FAS, attractiveness doesn't seem to be an especially objective thing.
Ah yes, The All Whites, our all-white, mostly ex-pat British football team, not to be confused with the all browns, eh, sorry All Blacks, our more famous Polynesian immigrant Rugby Team.
ERM wrote:
In this thread, there seems to be some sort of a consensus that darkish Celt men are some kind of standard for handsomeness, while the women...not so much.
-----------------------------
The only thing dark about your typical Celt is hair. Skin and eyes tend to be light. This combination is generally considered attractive in both sexes. For example:
Women:
Snow White
Snow White 2
Elizabeth Taylor
Amy MacDonald (example for the defense of Scottish women)
====
Men:
Superman
Superman 2
Pierce Brosnan
Elijah Wood
ERM wrote:
In this thread, there seems to be some sort of a consensus that darkish Celt men are some kind of standard for handsomeness, while the women...not so much.
-----------------------------
The only thing dark about your typical Celt is hair. Skin and eyes tend to be light. This combination is generally considered attractive in both sexes. For example:
Women:
Snow White
Snow White 2
Elizabeth Taylor
Amy MacDonald (another example for the defense of Scottish women)
====
Men:
Superman
Superman 2
Pierce Brosnan
Elijah Wood
I vote the post by Albertosaurus (7th from the top) as the best.
someone on this blog posted the following
Genetic studies have proven that the Amish and other similar groups are around 10-15% Asian genetically.
___
not saying that I disbelieve you, but can you show a source for that? I just googled it and can't find any backup.
Thanks
Nobody as of yet cares to take a crack at why a photographer who said he went where he went to find models because "the Italian/German genetic make-up "more concentrated." would not have gone to Germany or Italy?
Maybe he wanted concentrated but not THAT concentrated; if you get my drift.
The comparison of which ethnicity has the hottest celebrities. What about just walking around the British Isles?
It's apparent that English, Scottlish, Irish are not attractive people.
Besides homeliness, the other problem with the English-Irish-German preponderance is the awful early wrinkling/aging. Has it something to do with the environment where the type originated from? (whites wrinkle badly with a little tan).
On the contrary, Southern Europeans age somewhat better.
Genetic studies have proven that the Amish and other similar groups are around 10-15% Asian genetically.
What studies would those be then?
There ought to be some pretty good historical evidence to back that up too.
"Genetic studies have proven that the Amish and other similar groups are around 10-15% Asian genetically."
Are you sure you don't have them confused with Finns or Russians?
That figure sounds plausible for far-eastern Europeans like the Russians and Finns, but it's hard to believe for central Europeans.
"Russian women had no rep for beauty 30 years ago. Now it's another story."
This argument sounds similar to the desperate "it's all cultural, not biological" claim.
Russian women were not exported to Western media markets back then. However, that doesn't mean Westerners (diplomats) who were exposed to Russian women didn't find them damn attractive.
Russian chicks have always been hot and Irish girls have always looked like homely maids.
The comparison of which ethnicity has the hottest celebrities. What about just walking around the British Isles?
It's apparent that English, Scottlish, Irish are not attractive people.
===================
If you just walk around anywhere in the world and look at average people you will find they are mostly not attractive. Only a tiny minority is really attractive. We forget that sometimes because the people in TV and movies are usually among the tiny fraction that is attractive, so we can start thinking that is what normal people are supposed to look like.
Next time you are standing in line at a bank or store take a look at the other people in the line. That is as good a random sample as any.
"Russian women have always been hot." I wouldn't know, but they have not always been considered as such. Anyone over 30 can tell you that. They have probably changed no more than the Irish, over the years, but perceptions have changed. Travelers notes from the 19th century are useful.
When Lewis Carroll was traveling in Russia he noted that the Russians had noble faces but the children were "ugly as a rule, plain as the exception." On his return he was relieved to see the German children with their "large eyes and delicate features."
Now Russians I've seen look fine to me. Carroll was not the pedophile he has been viewed, IMO, but he was a keen observer of girl beauty.
As for the Irish, when Queen Victoria, of all people, was visiting Ireland in the wake of the famine circa 1850, she was impressed by the "beauty" of the populace despite their sufferings, who seemed to be unexpectedly excited and glad of her visit. Could their welcoming attitude influenced her opinion of their looks?
Anyway, I don't see any difference in level of good looks among persons of the British Isles, be it Ireland, Scotland, England or Wales. All have the same percentages on the 1 to 10 scale. People who focus on one country as being "ugliers" than another (especially when the countries are basically of the same racial stock) have some funny issues. I don't even know why I'm bothering, it's so dumb.
"People who focus on one country as being "ugliers" than another (especially when the countries are basically of the same racial stock) have some funny issues. I don't even know why I'm bothering, it's so dumb."
yes, thank you.
Also, contrary to the above comment about most people being ugly, I usually find that most young people, as long as they are fit, are exceptionally attractive.
It's true that as we get older, we get uglier. Even gorgeous Jean-Paul Belmondo, Sean Connery and Alec Balwin. All of us.
"would not have gone to Germany or Italy?"
See my post above. In countries where the GDP per head is 4-5 times what is in Brazil and easily twice what it is in Eastern Europe, it's a lot harder to convince middle class parents to let their tall teenage daughters drop out of high school and move to New York or Paris on the remote chance that they might be successful in a very seedy business.
"it's a lot harder to convince middle class parents to let their tall teenage daughters drop out of high school..."
Good try, except that in reality, the "German" white Brazilian such as Bundchen IS middle class. Brazil is a highly stratified society, if you go to Sao Paulo, you will see many people driving Benz's, and living the "coffee shop-to-nightclub" lifestyle. The reason the GDP is so low is because of the multi-racial favelas and Indians in the north; and no foreign model scout is going to risk going to a favela to find a girl
bottom line sweethearts- all races gawk over White women. all races.
Yes, I agree that the reason they are scouring Brazil for German looking models is absolutely that European and North American teenagers are not as fully available to work at a risky and seedy job at such a young age. And they are probably looking for models that are more pliable than European and North American women would be.
If you look at iconic models in North America, they were often not solely focused on becoming a model at 17 or 18.
Here's Cindy Crawford's early bio (from wiki):
Crawford graduated from DeKalb High School in 1984, as valedictorian. She won an academic scholarship to study chemical engineering at Northwestern University, which she attended for only one quarter. She dropped out in order to pursue a full-time modeling career. After working for photographer Victor Skrebneski in Chicago, Cindy moved to Manhattan in 1986; she was signed with the Elite New York modeling agency.
If you type into the Google search box. "Why are Irish..."
The first result suggestion (the most popular input) automatically generated is "Why are Irish people so ugly?"
Type in "Why are Scottish..."
And the results are related to other concerns.
This is a blog for people to point out objective differences between groups. The popular opinion is Irish people (both men and women) are not attractive.
Right, because nothing says "scientific objectivity" like typing some words into google and seeing what it suggests comes next.
This is an interesting blog to read for many reasons, but there are some staggeringly stupid people commenting on it. You would not recognize an "objective difference" if one fell on you from atop a fifty story building.
The comparison of which ethnicity has the hottest celebrities. What about just walking around the British Isles?
It's apparent that English, Scottlish, Irish are not attractive people.
By comparision with which other people? I've been to England, Ireland, and Scotland. I somehow never noticed the alleged uglyness which some people here are claiming.
If you type into the Google search box. "Why are Irish..."
The first result suggestion (the most popular input) automatically generated is "Why are Irish people so ugly?"
.. this is supposed to be a blog full of people who understand statistics.
I thought the combination of those particular words was comical enough to deserve repeating.
Right, because nothing says "scientific objectivity" like typing some words into google and seeing what it suggests comes next.
Or ignoring all the inductive evidence you can get your grubby little paws on.
"bottom line sweethearts- all races gawk over White women. all races."
I don't agree. Even though there are plenty of black men who date white women, I think they probably prefer their own. Look at how most sports stars marry black women. I think a lot of what motivates black men is pissing off white men.
Having mentioned some people with classic European looks, I'll add that that there are certainly people of African descent that have beautiful classic looks:
Iman
Marvin Gaye
Paul Robeson
Africans, are, of course, a very diverse people, so it's difficult to point to a single "African" look. I'm not into rap or professional sports, so my database of classic looking blacks is a quite limited.
For what it's worth, I think that Iman, Marvin Gaye and Paul Robeson are/were stunningly beautiful.
"Asian - compare mixed with white or oriental or desi or african) it's obvious there's nothing too impressive there (probably the mixed race face is less attractive to the average person, not more, at least it is to me)"
Desi as in South Asian like Asian India, what exactly is the South Asian look? India is filled with people who look like everything from Australian Aborigines, African Americans, Tanned Europeans with East Asian/ native American like features at regular intervals. India itself has been a melting pot from time immoral.
Besides homeliness, the other problem with the English-Irish-German preponderance is the awful early wrinkling/aging.
A fun game to play in Texas is "spot the waitress from New Mexico". Though the latitude is similar, the higher elevation and lower temperatures mean that New Mexico women get more sun on their hands than Texas women but also wear long sleeves more often, meaning less sun on their forearms. It's still a subtle difference, but when a waitress hands you your menu and you see those hands, you know.
The waitress, of course, is always stunned by your apparent ESP.
I wonder about that wrinkling thing. I have seen American Indians and middle eastern people who are a mass of wrinkles if they've been living hard and in the sun a lot. Any skin will wither if it is over exposed. Pale skin just shows it more. One black lady I knew talked of her Indian/black grandmother, noting her deep wrinkles as evidence of Indianess.
One interesting inversion of culture expressions is that in India if you get darker in the sun they tell you you are losing your color. Here they it when your tan fades.
oh--and anyone bitching about Ireland and Scotland not having pretty girls is pathetic--there are loads of pretty girls and boys, but I guess the only way to resolve the issue is to actually show people hundreds of class photos and have them vote.
I would suggest that the Brazillian models deemed not European enough for fashion modelling try their luck as hip hop video girls. As someone noted, when the mixed race melting pot vision turns out to be an empirical nightmare, just ignore the facts or focus on an outlier to 'prove' your point. Those of you ragging on Gisele's face are forgetting some basic facts about modeling
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