From the LA Times:
by Ching-Ching Ni
From the outside, they looked like other recently built San Gabriel townhouses — two stories, Spanish style, with roofs of red tile. Inside they were maternity centers for Chinese women willing to pay handsomely to travel here to give birth to American citizens.
Southern California has become a hub of so-called birthing tourism. Operators of such centers tend to try to blend in, attracting as little attention as possible. But on quiet, residential Palm Avenue, neighbors had noticed an unusual number of pregnant women going in and out, and some complained about noise.
On March 8, code enforcement officials shut down three identical four-bedroom townhouses functioning as an unlicensed birthing center. The homes, officials said, had been converted into maternity centers. Inside, they found about 10 mothers and seven newborns.
... The city fined the manager of the property, Dwight Chang of Arcadia, $800. He was cited for illegal construction and ordered to acquire permits and return the buildings to their original condition. "They had moved walls around without proper permits. They did interior work that can sometimes create unsafe environments afterwards," Davis said. "And it's a business in a residential neighborhood. They are not permitted to operate there."
All that stuff is just plain illegal. No way no how can you move walls around without proper permits.
On the other hand, random foreigners grabbing lifelong U.S. citizenship for their children -- including such perks as 13 years of free public education in an upscale San Gabriel Valley school district, cheap tuition at UC Berkeley, low interest SBA loans, government contracting minority preferences, the right to import their parents and put them on Medicare and in public old folks homes, and other goodies -- through these scams is, legally speaking, A-OK, 100% on the up and up:
It is not illegal for pregnant women to travel to the U.S. to give birth. Birthing centers advertise in wealthier Chinese cities, where some women can afford the thousands necessary to make the trip to America for a few months. Most of the women go back to China after giving birth. But they know their children can return easily in the future to enjoy such benefits as free public education.
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128 comments:
If we want to allow foreigners to buy citizenship for their kids, we ought to at least get the foreigners pay us directly, instead of paying someone else. At least we'd raise some revenue from it....
One of the best suggestions I've read for breaking through the political stonewalling on illegal immigration is to suggest that there ought to be heavy fees associated with immigration. If it's valuable, people ought to be willing to pay for it. Immigrant parents would have to pay a similar fee to get a US birth certificate for their children, else they aren't granted US citizenship.
The financial rather than law-enforcement approach does an end-run around PC thinking about immigration in a lot of ways. The main downside is that it isn't emotionally appealing to those on the right who see this as a fairness issue.
"The main downside is that it isn't emotionally appealing to those on the right who see this as a fairness issue. "
And those on the left who think the world's tired, poor, lazy, and stupid have a right to immigrate here.
"One of the best suggestions I've read for breaking through the political stonewalling on illegal immigration is to suggest that there ought to be heavy fees associated with immigration. If it's valuable, people ought to be willing to pay for it...
The financial rather than law-enforcement approach does an end-run around PC thinking about immigration in a lot of ways."
How so? The left will simply claim that this discriminates against the poor and that poverty is being used as a proxy for race. The left won't fail to mention that many impoverished Europeans (i.e., whites) came to the US and made good so why shouldn't poor people of color be allowed the same opportunity now?
Yeah man those damn Chinese they get that government contracting minority preference. (Protip: They don't)
Those damn Chinese costing schools billions of dollars with them always getting in the way. (I don't think they're really hurting public schools, maybe taking away positions from white people in Uni, but not k-12..)
And Asians don't put their parents in old people homes. They see that as horrible, one of the worst things you could do to your parents. it's something they make fun of white people for.
And I'm not how Medicare works (never dealt with it, don't know anyone who has), so I'm not going to comment on that..
I mean are these really the people we should be complaining about? Not the people right across our border, funneling in without any filter?
"those on the left who think the world's tired, poor, lazy, and stupid have a right to immigrate here."
Don't forget diseased. The ban against HIV/AIDS infected people entering the US was lifted a year ago.
Re TB, I found this:
"ICE is legally authorized to deny entry of undocumented persons into the country and to remove any foreign national who enters the U.S. with TB (though it is the policy of ICE and other agencies not to invoke this authority)." (page 30)
TB Law Policy Handbook
Hardly reassuring.
This country is run by absolute fools. It is sickening beyond belief. We should easily be able to pass an amendment outlawing birthright citizenship. The only way your child should even be able to get citizenship is if you are a citizen or a permanent resident. All this chain migration should end too.
I just wonder at what point, if any, we come to a consensus that our immigration policies are insane. Do we ever? Or do we simply slide into a Mexican quality-of-life with nary a peep? Do we realize it after the USA, preceded by a few of our more diverse states, slides into insolvency and is unable to import essential commodities? Does some genetic development come along making differences in intelligence and work ethic non-existent?
Default, riots, depression, droughts, famines, natural disaster, epidemic...what?
A day of reckoning is coming, and within the next 20-30 years, I would wager. I just wonder how will all unwind.
In saner times both parties, in spite of their differences, would look at a situation like illegal immigration and birth tourism and realize that it's untenable. They would solve it by statute, if posssible, or even by constitutional amendment, if necessary. But the Democratic Party has been so thoroughly radicalized and both parties have been so effectively bought out by special interests that neither will ever address immigration, social security, the deficit, or anything else responsibly.
"They had moved walls around without proper permits."
As pure an example of anarchotyrrany as ever you'll find.
Improperly moving a wall? Unacceptable.
Invasion? No big deal.
"I mean are these really the people we should be complaining about? Not the people right across our border, funneling in without any filter?"
If the Chinese aren't getting anything out of having their children born here or simply being here themselves, then why are they here at all? They may not be the drain on society that some other immigrant groups are but allowing them to come here deliberately just to insure that their newborns are American citizens sets a very bad precedent. And the fact is that Chinese anchor babies with their automatic American citizenship are a "foot in the door" for Chinese families.
Steve, do you happen to know of a way to download your Half-Prince book (for free?)
I can't seem to find it on any of the torrent sites.
"A day of reckoning is coming, and within the next 20-30 years, I would wager. I just wonder how will all unwind."
That's just wishful thinking, I hate to say. America has been going down the tubes, solidarity-wise, for 20 years, and it's not going to get better anytime soon.
The rise and fall of what Ibn Khaldun called asabiya (or potential for collective action) waxes and wanes on the order of centuries. We had a good ride up from settler times up through the 1980s, but prepare for a couple hundred years of ever-falling levels of giving a shit about the state of the country.
Norway, Germany, France, Spain, England -- they've never recovered their glory days, and there's no reason to think we'll be any different.
The only question is who's going to take our place? Not India or China -- they're not capable, not for the next several hundred years anyway. The Middle East is decaying, and Central Asia isn't going to give us another Genghis Khan either.
Our closest relative, genetically and culturally, seems to be Australia. Right now they've hitched their wagon to the Chinese bubble, so they might get screwed for a decade or so. But that will be minor in the long-run.
All they need is a hostile Other to force them to band together and stop squabbling about petty bullshit like why people with the black Macbook are so much cooler than those wannabes with the white Macbook.
Not the Aborigines, obviously. But they've got several decades, maybe even a century or more, before we bite the big one. Who knows -- maybe when the Chinese dynamite they're sitting on explodes, it'll sour relations so much that it'll give them someone to organize against, not necessarily militarily.
"We should easily be able to pass an amendment outlawing birthright citizenship. "
Then why haven't we? Face it guys -- few white Americans care about immigration that much. They just want a large welfare state to buffer them against the vagaries of working for a wage.
The impact of immigration is too far off in the distance for them to see, unless they live in L.A. Even they aren't organizing, though -- they're just getting the fuck outta there, and god can help whoever decides to stay. Totally individualistic.
Among elite white Americans, a large camp is vehemently against curtailing immigration. Leaving -- us. And in case you haven't noticed from your interactions in real life, we're a tiny minority.
Right now the only way that a major rollback of immigration policy would happen -- not just preventing a new insane proposal from taking effect -- is if VDare or whoever became a vanguard party and overthrew the government. The median voter just is not that concerned about the medium or longer-term effects of immigration.
It's like charging a murderer not for the murder but for illegal ownership of a handgun.
The problem is the Constitution or our current interpration of it, which says it's legal for a pregnant woman to come to the US and have babies.
Since the Right is pro-Constitutionalist, this is tough nut to crack.
"And Asians don't put their parents in old people homes. They see that as horrible, one of the worst things you could do to your parents. it's something they make fun of white people for."
OT of course:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83967.php
"About 7.4% of U.S. residents ages 75 and older lived in nursing homes in 2006, compared with 8.1% in 2000 and 10.2% in 1990"
Perhaps related to demographic change though (I doubt it given population age structure, but hey).
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2459/is_n6_v26/ai_20206888/pg_3/?tag=content;col1
Elderly care facilities, when including residential homes to hospitals, Japan in 1990s - 6% - identical to Sweden, the UK and France, higher than Italy. Of course, where Japan differs is palming the elderly off to more expensive intensive high end care facilities and probably a greater persistence of multigenerational households (which the Anglosphere has never been too keen on - older people historically have live alone with their relatives living very near to them and visiting them often, rather than living in the same households), so there's not nothing to the idea of Asian care for the elderly. Part of the difference may lie be in the fact that Asians have sleepier personalities than Westerners in many ways, so the elderly don't seem like such a drag (not being pejorative here).
Possibly Asian Americans may exaggerate this difference though as a badge of cultural distinctiveness, or just as likely because they're relatively young populations still, fresh off a village/local cultural level, so can afford to talk a good one as if they were premodern peasant societies without the options and challenges to elderly care by relatives that modern societies have.
Let's learn from the Chinese and build a great wall.
I hate this but I blame ourselves rather than the Chinese. If US were a poor country and a very rich country allowed our preg women to come, have babies, and gain citizenship, who wouldn't?
We really have to drastically change immigration laws.
If a house has a sign outside saying, 'come inside and have whatever's in the refrigerator', who isn't take up the offer?
It is true that it is not illegal for pregnant women to travel to the U.S. to give birth, it is only illegal for them to lie about their intentions to the immigration officer.
I lobbied briefly on Capitol Hill against birthright citizenship. The majority of Congress was with us, but building the momentum for a constitutional amendment on the issue, even if the votes were there, was well-nigh impossible.
Also, this article snippet sounds a bit strange because Chinese are not allowed dual citizenship. Perhaps this has changed recently for minors, but even so, they'll have to make a decision sometime around the age of 18.
OT
Fascinating.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/apr/29/getting-to-know-them/
"Flo was one of the most sexually attractive female chimps in a troop studied by Jane Goodall. By the time Flo was forty, her teeth were worn down to the gums and her time as the dominant female in the troop was over, but she still managed to drive the boys crazy, attracting a string of suitors and mating fifty times in a single day. Researchers, wondering whether Flo was an anomaly, carried out an eight-year study of chimpanzee sex. In what seems to be something of an understatement of their results, they concluded that
chimpanzee males may not find the wrinkled skin, ragged ears, irregular bald patches, and elongated nipples of their aged females as alluring as human men find the full lips and smooth complexions of young women, but clearly they are not reacting negatively…."
Chimps are into MILFs.
"I thought I knew my cats pretty well, but Grandin surprised me by having much of great interest to say about these superbly sensual, mysterious creatures. One bare fact that had hitherto escaped me is that there are two basic cat personalities—bold and shy—which are associated with coat color. Black cats, it turns out, are usually laid-back...
In cities, where cat populations are high, the spread of feline AIDS (which is contracted through scratches and bites) is greatly facilitated. Black cats tend to predominate in such environments. Orange toms, found in certain studies to be more aggressive than black cats, die early because they spend too much time fighting (thereby exposing themselves to feline AIDS), while the laid-back black toms just lounge about, waiting for their turn to mate."
Sounds true enough. My orange tabby loved to fight and died when it was 12. My black long-hair is mellow, 20 yrs old, and still alive.
OT.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/apr/29/a-bad-morning-at-the-new-york-times/
NY Times and Jayson Blair scandal.
Interesting article with three big problems.
1. It says had Blair been white, there would have been no controversy. Sure, but then, a white Blair would have been fired almost immediately than kept(protected) for so long.
2. The article plays ambivalent on the issue of affirmative action. On the one hand, it grudgingly admits 'diversity' agenda fails to find enough qualified black talent. But it also admonishes qualified whites--never mentioned as 'Jews'--for taking notice of the problem. One gets the sense that 'racism' isn't only being anti-black but being truthful about blacks.
3. The article assumes that black success and social elevation must naturally follow the pattern of whites. Since whites and Jews rose from the bottom to the top, the assumption is this should also happen with all other groups once equality of opportunity has been guaranteed.
"..few white Americans care about immigration that much. They just want a large welfare state..": yeah, but you can't have a large welfare state and open immigration. The latter will ruin the former. (Though, to be fair, the USA is probably capable of ruining the former withot foreign assistance.)
Anyway, if I may ask: has any progress been made in learning what happened to the birth certificate of the International Man of Mystery?
Asians and Affirmative Action:
http://jewamongyou.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/asians-are-beneficiaries-of-affirmative-action/
Title 15: Commerce and Foreign Trade
PART 1400—DETERMINATION OF GROUP ELIGIBILITY FOR MBDA ASSISTANCE
Section Contents
§ 1400.1 Purpose and scope.
§ 1400.2 Definitions.
§ 1400.3 Request for determination.
§ 1400.4 Evidence of social or economic disadvantage.
§ 1400.5 Decision.
§ 1400.6 Construction.
Authority: 15 U.S.C. 1512, E.O. 11625, 3 CFR 616 (1971–75), 36 FR 19967 (1971); and E.O. 12432, 3 CFR 198
(1983), 48 FR 32551 (1983).
Source: 49 FR 42698, Oct. 24, 1984, unless otherwise noted.
§ 1400.1 Purpose and scope.
top
(a) The purpose of this part is to set forth regulations for determination of group eligibility for MBDA assistance.
(b) In order to be eligible to receive assistance from MBDA funded organizations, a concern must be a minority business enterprise.
A minority business enterprise is a business enterprise that is owned or controlled by one or more socially or economically
disadvantaged persons. Executive Order 11625 designates Blacks, Puerto-Ricans, Spanish-speaking Americans, American
Indians, Eskimos, and Aleuts as persons who are socially or economically disadvantaged and thus eligible for MBDA assistance.
Other groups designated are listed below in paragraph (c). The purpose of this regulation is to provide guidance to groups not
previously designated as eligible for assistance who believe they are entitled to formal designation as “socially or economically
disadvantage” under the Executive Order. Upon adequate showing by representatives of the group that the group is, as a whole,
socially or economically disadvantaged the group will be so designated and its members will be eligible for MBDA assistance.
Designation under Executive Order 11625 establishes eligibility status only for MBDA funded programs. It will not establish
eligibility for any other Federal or Federally funded program.
(c) In addition to those listed in E.O. 11625, members of the following groups have been designated as eligible to receive
assistance: Hasidic Jews, Asian Pacific Americans, and Asian Indians.
Illegal aliens are everywhere these days. No matter where you go, there they are.
If a house has a sign outside saying, 'come inside and have whatever's in the refrigerator', who isn't take up the offer?
Sure, it's understandable, but the problem is that the one who put up the sign isn't the owner of the house. Under those circumstances, the intruder is still a trespasser.
Liberals are worse than the masochist who keeps coming back and asking,"please can I have another beating"; they expect everyone else to accept the beating the liberal has requested too.
Patience, folks. With a few more years of government sucking all the wealth out of the country for utopian fantasies, devaluation of the dollar, "progressive" strangulation of businesses, etc, it simply won't be worth it for pregnant foreign women to fly here to gain US citizenship for their children anymore. Problem solved! And who said progressives weren't bright?
"Yeah man those damn Chinese they get that government contracting minority preference. (Protip: They don't)"
True the GSA has downgraded minority status as a preference, and replaced it with Disadvantaged and very Small Business..but many creaky old cities and counties still use their MBE templates for bids, which includes Asia-Pacific origin. That's a lot of governments and a lot of bids.
Don't know how it's worked out for the immigrants, though; so far it hasn't helped my elite Asian owners, who have had to get by on product and hustle.
How many legal Latinos have European blood in them? Plenty of Argentinans, Brazilians and a few others of South American nationality have European blood from what I have seen (at least anywhere between 30 to 70%). Please check the statistics Steve for me. While I hate illegals and despise mass legal immigration if it's reduced legal immigration with Latinos whom possess a sizable portion of European blood and no illegal immigration then I can cope with it.
I suspect the numbers don't work out in such a way to give this a lot of impact on US population--it's more like earmarks (smarmy and upsetting but not a significant part of the deficit) than unnecessary military buildup (often cool and dangerous looking but a huge part of our unsustainable budgets).
That said, if anyone's collecting the money to sell Chinese ladies citizenship for their sons, it out to be the US treasury.
"I don't think they're really hurting public schools, maybe taking away positions from white people in Uni, but not k-12"
Uh, yeah, they're taking positions away from k-12 White kids, all right: the winning spots in the academic clubs that get the fun trips, ostensibly developed to encourage (White) American kids to love math and science.
My kid (barely) made it, but I, myself, know of six White math whiz kids denied the fun trip because a Chinese Grind kid, whose dad came here on H-1 B visa, took that spot, whining the whole time about having to come to practice.
Those six White math whiz kids who lost out to the Chinese grinds for the competition trip, (created, sponsored and paid for by White American people, note) who used to LOVE math, are now demoralized.
"The only way your child should even be able to get citizenship is if you are a citizen or a permanent resident."
Not even that. Citizenship for the kid ONLY IF at least one parent is a citizen.
"Chimps are into MILFs."
I was surprised there was no mention of whether the primary partakers were alpha vs. betas. Seems to me after the betas had sought each others consolation after each loss of battles for access to mates/sex, they could be p whipped by some less than attractive chimpette who'd probably use sex as a weapon. They'd also have to fight against now lifelong loser friends to get the right to the abuse. I surmise that these grateful monkeys are getting a little unconditional nookie in a sort of polyandrus relationship along with the abilty to maintain their beta friendships. Just a thought. ;o)
"by Ching-Ching Ni"
I thought we weren't allowed to say "ching ching" anymore. Isn't that one of the things we learned from the whole Alexandra Wallace affair?
There enough spoiled US born who see no value in education. The rebellious cool brats only disrupt the nerds trying to learn.
If the immigrants value industry and education, why not revitalize a decadent society with some foreigners with a productive work ethic?
Consider a new international exchange program; green cards for the useful foreigners, red cards for the worthless citizens. Make those red cards a nice one way ticket to someplace warm where they can live out their tribal impulses and leave the rest of us in peace.
What's more if these foreign moms want to pay out of their own pockets for a medical attention to their births and delivery, isn't that the American way? Profit for all!
What happened to hospitality and profit motive? Next thing, you'll want to keep out all those terrible foreigners clogging American shopping malls taking away all those scarce deals.
What those depressed regions in AZ, NV, CA, MI or even Buffalo should do is to demand exemption or relaxation of rules for foreigners who are willing to buy homes there and prop up the local and regional economies with their enterprising spirit.
@none of the above
"at least get the foreigners pay us directly, instead of paying someone else."
Not a bad idea.
If immigrants are willing to pay coyotes thousands of USD, we should just undercut them and sell a temp visa for those thousands and let 'em come in a nice safe air conditioned bus.
I'm not overly concerned about the citizen children of these Chinese women. They will probably make both this country and Taiwan or China a better place since they will be educated here and establish a business here, pay taxes, employ other people, pay to take care of their family members. That's what you're supposed to do to become an American.
"The problem is the Constitution or our current interpration[sic] of it, which says it's legal for a pregnant woman to come to the US and have babies."
The Constitution says no such thing. It has been interpreted that way to suit the leftist agenda, which is something very different.
"I mean are these really the people we should be complaining about? Not the people right across our border, funneling in without any filter?"
Obviously not a long term iSteve reader. High levels of Chinese and Korean immigration to the West Coast are a symptom of the Reconquista. As a market-dominant ethnic groups they will go anywhere, anytime to make cash. As the white small business class flees in search of better social conditions and lower taxes they are replaced by tax cheating Asians who sell liquor, cigarettes, and foodstuffs with a 100% markup over supermarket retail. They buy cockroach infested flophouses and rent them to illegal aliens, no questions asked. They work as doctors and dentists getting rich off scamming medicare and medicaid. And they contribute nothing to the host society but services for payment.
As for the effect of Chinese kids on schools, it's certainly not as pernicious as that of blacks and Hispanics in large numbers, but in its own way it is horribly stultifying. Somehow the West managed to drag the whole world into the modern age without cram schools, shrieking Tiger mothers, and four hours of home work a night, but Chinese have turned child rearing into a joyless grind for everyone who wants to see their kid accomplished and educated. Nothing is for fun anymore or for the sake of intellectual enjoyment -- the American economy and education system has become a zero sum game, where middle and lower class whites are now systematically culled from elite college applicant pools to make room for immigrant kiddies who may or may not be qualified, but who are definitely stealing the birthright opportunities of Americans.
This is insane. This whole "birthright citizenship" scam should be ended. Other countries don't have it.
This is another example of a nation waking up. It's not likely to be serious if we indeed do wake up.
I expect by the time these little Chinese kids are ready for Cal Tech the residency requirements for tuition will have changed. All we would have to do is make residency ten years of continuous residency in the US and the last one has to have been in California.
The citizenship issue is more difficult. But I still expect it to be changed. But not under Obama.
Something like this happened with crime. Crime soared after the sixties. Liberals wanted to use preventative measures and conservatives wanted to just lock them up. Liberals considered even the most heinous "wilding" rapist or murderer a victim so they considered his imprisonment a form of "blaming the victim".
The public finally wouldn't be put off by lofty rhetoric. They tired of "understanding the underlying problems of poverty". They wanted safe streets. Period. Racial guilt only went so far. The Republicans roared back in and expanded the prison system.
Something similar I expect to happen around immigration and citizenship issues. All the ground work has been done by VDare for years. Soon some mainstream moderate Republican will embrace this issue and ride triumphally into office.
Albertosaurus
`On Chinese affirmative action:Recently we had a mayoral election here in Chicago;you may have heard about it. Early in the campaign one of the black candidates suggested that the city set aside program should be limited to blacks. It was like a Batman comic book,where all the super villains get together to tear down Gotham. Fire-breathing rich yoga-fied Jewish women from the North Shore,vein popping outrgaed latinos,condescending white media jerks and yes,Asians,that model minority of hard work and humble achievement..they all swarmewd on this black man like cops on Rodney King. Even the other back candidate,the looney tunes Carol Mosely Braun,joined in the clubbing. Dont tell me Charlie doesnt get special privileges. And as for these babies,its a sign of the devastating impact the clannish,crooked Chinese are having on our nation. Theyre ALL bad.
And those on the left who think the world's tired, poor, lazy, and stupid have a right to immigrate here.
The elite left won't give ground on HBD. PC without HBD-denial is like Islam without Muhammad -- like what Christianity has become in Europe. So any bottom-up attack has to be predicated on other grounds, hopefully without presenting antigens that elicit the anti-HBD immune response.
Frankly, I would just like to forestall Apocalypse NAM long enough to figure out how to survive it.
Right now the only way that a major rollback of immigration policy would happen -- not just preventing a new insane proposal from taking effect -- is if VDare or whoever became a vanguard party and overthrew the government. The median voter just is not that concerned about the medium or longer-term effects of immigration.
Then why are so many state governments going Arizona? (Or were; my source dried up in one of his depressive swings)
Courting those big corporate donations?
P.s., the median voter only decides between Dum or Dee. The primary voter decides who gets to be on the ticket.
Let's learn from the Chinese and build a great wall.
Good point. The world's largest "cognitively elite" population not only avoids "cognitive elitism" like the plague; its ancestors also built the world's largest border wall.
As the next yellow supremacist/"cognitive elitist" you encounter if he's proud of the Great Wall of China and see if you get a "does not compute" error. He'll probably try to square the circle by being "proud of it as architecture" or "correcting your ignorance about Chinese history."
"Anonymous said...
Yeah man those damn Chinese they get that government contracting minority preference. (Protip: They don't)"
You are wrong. Chinese ARE eligible for minority contracting preference. From the SBA's website:
https://sba8a.symplicity.com/applicants/faqs
"Who is socially disadvantaged?
There is a rebuttable presumption that the following individuals are socially disadvantaged: Black Americans; Hispanic Americans; ..... Asian Pacific Americans (persons with origins from Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, Japan, China (including Hong Kong), Taiwan, Laos, Cambodia (Kampuchea), Vietnam, Korea,......"
Cheap canola oil???!!!!
Oh the horror! No, no, no!
Can't have that in a decent neighborhood!!!!
"That's just wishful thinking, I hate to say. America has been going down the tubes, solidarity-wise, for 20 years, and it's not going to get better anytime soon." - Agnostic
That, though, was my point. Maybe nothing will happen at all. I'm inclined to think something will happen, however, because of what's taking place. Mexico has always been poor, but we are handing a poor man a rich man's debt. The rich man wracking up the debt is the present United States with its present ethnic composition. The poor man is the future United States with its ethnic composition. That group cannot afford the debt we're leaving them. That leaves three alternatives: massive tax increases, default, or hyperinflation.
Additionally, white people will not defend welfare programs forever. The nature of welfare programs is that they go to a demographic minority. Since whites do better economically than blacks and Hispanics they will effectively be cut off as beneficiaries, and will have no reason to support welfare.
So that actually leaves a fourth possible solution - the one that could re-establish demographic balance: the elimination of most forms of welfare, which would cause society to stop subsidizing overbreeding by the poor. That solution would take several decades to realize, however.
If we want to allow foreigners to buy citizenship for their kids, we ought to at least get the foreigners pay us directly, instead of paying someone else. At least we'd raise some revenue from it....
Actually, we do allow people to buy citizenship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa
'And Asians don't put their parents in old people homes. They see that as horrible, one of the worst things you could do to your parents. it's something they make fun of white people for.
And I'm not how Medicare works (never dealt with it, don't know anyone who has), so I'm not going to comment on that.. '
Come on. Get real.
In addition to writing about H-1B, Matloff has a really interesting article on how Chinese immigrants bring in parents, promising support while planning to dump them off on SSI and Medicaid as soon as they are deemed (3-5 years).
http://www.cs.ucdavis.edu/~matloff/pub/Immigration/WelfareUse/WelfareUsageReport/FullNMReport.html
Matloff also says that there are a number of publications both in their country of origin and in the US that explain to these new elderly immigrants how to navigate the government maze in order to maximize their welfare benefits. These publications may have advice columns that answer questions regarding eligibility. Two of my favorites examples are as follows:
An immigrant who came to the US to visit her children on a tourist visa overstayed the visa, remaining here illegally, but did eventually receive her green card. She now wanted to know if her time, some of it illegal, in the US would count toward the three-year waiting period for benefits.
Another person wanted to know if the fact that her mother returned “home” to Asia for a year and a half would cancel her SSI benefits and if she would have to re-apply for SSI from scratch when she returned. A year and a half? So much for “family reunification”.
As Dave Barry says, “You can’t make this stuff up.”
There is considerable indication that many of these children who bring their parents to the US are mainly looking for free temporary baby-sitting services. After their children are older, they then push their parents, also older and often frailer, out on their own, where they become dependent on social services and SSI. While living with their children, some of these elderly immigrants get SSI, which they bank for later use by their children often for their grand-childrens' education.
They may not qualify for Medicare but Medicaid is a sure-fire option. And keep in mind they haven't paid taxes for EITHER!
BTW, I wrote a letter to the editor last year about birthright tourism. The fairly large newspaper in Virginia that I wrote it to initially didn't believe that this happened and asked me to send them examples of the ads run in foreign countries to apprise folks of their perfectly legally 'right' to produce US citizen babies in the US and to help them do so for a fee. I pointed out that any ad that I produced would not be in a language readily interpreted by their editorial department and instead gave them a number of articles similar to the one noted.
They printed my letter. LOL.
OT.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1365817/Woman-authors-politically-incorrect-book-race-lovers-set-cause-storm.html
The Battle Hump of the Cougar Nympho.
Looks like Sailer was ahead of his time with COLOR OF LOVE.
mexicans do not have to obey building codes from what i've seen. they're also free to violate HOA rules. if you call in to complain about them breaking the rules, your complaint is ignored. better not break the rules if you're not mexican, though. the police will come down swiftly.
in fact, in the US, mexicans do not have to observe many regulations or laws of any kind. from what i have seen, the authorities look the other way when it's mexicans. i guess it's just another one of the ways they're being "oppressed" by those evil, nasty europeans.
the FBI recently arrested yet another chinese guy selling defense secrets to china. americans must really be vicious, virulent racists though, for even considering that some of these "new" americans might need to be watched or monitored. i mean merely THINKING that some of them might need to be watched carefully is probably a hatecrime, and certainly a thoughtcrime.
of course it was also totally preposterous thinking that there could have been ANY japanese spies in the united states during world war 2. modern enlightenment teaches us that there was zero, absolutely zero chance of that. and so it should be with chinese and muslim citizens. the FBI and CIA better lay off, since there is without a doubt NOTHING to see here. move along folks, move along.
"Early in the campaign one of the black candidates suggested that the city set aside program should be limited to blacks."
Don't they have those already?
"This is insane. This whole "birthright citizenship" scam should be ended. Other countries don't have it."
The downside of American Exceptionalism.
China's new export: pregnant women.
"The problem is the Constitution or our current interpration[sic] of it, which says it's legal for a pregnant woman to come to the US and have babies."
"The Constitution says no such thing. It has been interpreted that way to suit the leftist agenda, which is something very different."
That may be, but conservatives didn't oppose that interpretation for over a 100 yrs. In fact, Americans took pride in it when most of the immigrants were coming from Europe. So, it looks rather foolish for conservatives FINALLY get riled up over that interpretation. They should have challenged it many many yrs ago.
"How many legal Latinos have European blood in them?"
Almost all Mexicans in the US have some--even if little--European blood in them.
"I don't think they're really hurting public schools, maybe taking away positions from white people in Uni, but not k-12..)"
Hope this isn't a double post. My first seems to be lost in the ether.
Yes, Chinese kids ARE taking positions away from k-12 White kids.
I'm referring to the winning spots in academic contests that receive such prizes as fun trips to compete at Nationals.
Any cursory glance at the makeup of the demographics of Nationals competitors in math and science contests will prove my point.
I, myself, know of 6 White math whiz-kids who lost out on the fun trip to Chinese grind kids whose parent(s) were here on H1-B visas.
Note: These contests with the fun trip were created, sponsored and paid for by Whites ostensibly to encourage (White) American slackers to achieve academic excellence in math and science.
Those 6 Whiz kids I know are now demoralized.
It's basically an anti-White strategy. That's what it is. Now you have to ask yourself, serious, is the elite able to produce broad support for this (these policies DO have broad support) based on SWPL-ism alone?
The answer is no. These policies flow directly and absolutely from the White female disdain for Beta White males. Of course they want them replaced! They're not sexy! So anything and everything that replaces icky Beta Male White guys is good. Look at NBC's "Outsourced." Sitcoms have about 85% female audiences. It could not be more clear.
PAY for Steve's book. The man wrote it. The least you can do is pay for it. It's not that much.
PAY FOR THE BOOK!
This cannot go on much longer.
White Americans have fewer kids because they only have kids that they can afford to pay for, and don't like popping out kids at age 16.
Mexicans, and other non-White groups (not NE Asians btw) have kids STARTING at age 16, don't produce wealth (single motherhood driven) and demand the White (and increasingly Upper Class Asian) taxpayer subsidize their kids. Since they can't pay for 5-6 little ninos.
Meanwhile the White Middle Class gets squeezed by a NE Asian elite with connections to Red Princes in China or Chaebol in the US (the fees themselves for birth tourism are very high, only the elite can afford it). The Average Chinese is not coming here -- only the politically connected/wealthy. [Japanese are staying home btw.]
What will happen?
Somehow the West managed to drag the whole world into the modern age without cram schools, shrieking Tiger mothers, and four hours of home work a night, but Chinese have turned child rearing into a joyless grind for everyone who wants to see their kid accomplished and educated.
What's the point of blaming the Asian or the Jew for succeeding in a system the WASP created? If you harbor any doubts that the current system is a WASP creation, then read John Taylor Gatto's Underground History of American Education:
"The crucial years for the hardening of our national arteries were those between 1845 and 1920, the immigration years. Something subtler than Anglo-Saxon revulsion against Celt, Latin, Slav was at work in that period. A utopian ideal of society as an orderly social hive had been transmitting itself continuously through small elite bodies of men since the time of classical Egypt. New England had been the New World proving ground of this idea. Now New England was to take advantage of the chaotic period of heavy immigration and the opportunity of mass regimentation afforded by civil war to establish this form of total State."
Look at the bright side: now that the ranks of the elite are filling up with Jews and Asians, we no longer have suffer under the delusion that the elite are concerned about our interests. It's potentionally a new birth of freedom.
What will happen is the "mother of all tax squeezes."
We have a huge lower class that gets poorer every generation, mostly because it pops out kids at 16, devalues education, and is cognitively limited (culture, genetics, it is functionally the same thing and impossible to change). We're not going to have "stolen generation" because there are far more little ninos than the population of White would-be caretakers.
So we have the classic tax/racial revolt, ala Bacon's Rebellion, Whiskey Rebellion, Civil War, etc.
Where success is NOT predicated on market-dominant minorities, or elites, but on the battlefield. This was the fate of Rome, both in the Late Republic and during the later Imperial Era (basically 200-300). In an era of shortages of EVERYTHING: food, water, ENERGY, and most of all, money, FIGHTS BREAK OUT.
Japan responded to the earthquake with tremendous social cohesion. A financial earthquake, which is ALREADY HAPPENING: taxes on miles driven, taxes on toilet paper, all in the works by the Feds to transfer money from the White middle class to ninos and a Market Dominant politically connected Minority (back home in China and Korea) are already producing open revolts.
What happens if say, Barack Obama loses, and simply suspends the election counting, charges racial suppression, and proclaims himself the winner? We have open fighting right there (and Gore's legalistic attempts are likely to be followed by Obama just Chicago-waying it through).
"This is insane. This whole "birthright citizenship" scam should be ended. Other countries don't have it."
About 30 do. If you tried to predict which countries had it and which countries did not you'd probably never guess at the division - it is not First World vs. Third World, or Europe vs. Asia, or free vs. totalitarian, but Western Hemisphere vs. Eastern Hemisphere. Nearly all of the countries with birthright citizenship are in the Americas. Yes, it is insane that 21st Century America retains a 19th Century, pre-airplane, pre-steamship citizenship policy.
"The downside of American Exceptionalism."
The downside of believing God is on our side, and that good intentions justify the laziest of thought processes.
That may be, but conservatives didn't oppose that interpretation for over a 100 yrs. In fact, Americans took pride in it when most of the immigrants were coming from Europe.
Stop lying, Yan Shen. If you can find conservatives saying any such thing "for over a 100 yrs", then cite them.
I, myself, know of 6 White math whiz-kids who lost out on the fun trip to Chinese grind kids whose parent(s) were here on H1-B visas.
Maybe those 6 just aren't that good at math.
"I mean are these really the people we should be complaining about? Not the people right across our border, funneling in without any filter?"
Is there some reason why we cannot complain about both?
"If a house has a sign outside saying, 'come inside and have whatever's in the refrigerator', who isn't take up the offer?"
Sure, it's understandable, but the problem is that the one who put up the sign isn't the owner of the house. Under those circumstances, the intruder is still a trespasser.
More to the point, when one sees a sign like that, extreme skepticism and due diligence are advised.
IRL, most people AREN'T taking up that offer. Criminals may be a different story, but they aren't necessarily waiting for a house with a sign, either.
No, most people who take up that offer are going to people who feel entitled. Just like 99.99% of our immigrants.
Jody:
I've never heard anyone claim there were no Japanese spies here at the start of ww2, just that the threat of sabotage and spying was far too small to justify shipping a hundred thousand people to internment camps. Before the mass internment, a much smaller number of suspected Japanese, German, and Italian spies were interned, which seems likely to have addressed most of the risk there.
There enough spoiled US born who see no value in education. The rebellious cool brats only disrupt the nerds trying to learn.
If the immigrants value industry and education, why not revitalize a decadent society with some foreigners with a productive work ethic?
So a crook with a strong work ethic isn't a crook. Got it.
If the Chinese are so smart, why don't they open their doors for the smart and productive? If yellows are so "cognitively elite," why are the Japanese so Xenophobic?
If the Chinese are so industrious, why is their coming here an issue to begin with? Why isn't China a paradise?
What those depressed regions in AZ, NV, CA, MI or even Buffalo should do is to demand exemption or relaxation of rules for foreigners who are willing to buy homes there and prop up the local and regional economies with their enterprising spirit.
Try buying real estate outside the first world and get back to me.
Lone Watie: You drink it.
That may be, but conservatives didn't oppose that interpretation for over a 100 yrs. In fact, Americans took pride in it when most of the immigrants were coming from Europe. So, it looks rather foolish for conservatives FINALLY get riled up over that interpretation. They should have challenged it many many yrs ago.
So, once a mistake goes on long enough, it gets tenure. Brilliant logic.
Anyone who wants a mistake made permanent just has to make sure it lasts until the guy who made it dies. Then it becomes the immortal, irreparable mistake. Even more brilliant.
"I, myself, know of 6 White math whiz-kids who lost out on the fun trip to Chinese grind kids whose parent(s) were here on H1-B visas.
Maybe those 6 just aren't that good at math."
If the average non-Jewish white IQ is 100, and the average Asian 105, then there should be six times as many white non-Jewish mathematicians as Asian mathematicians if they have to have an IQ over 140.
The fact that in schools it is almost the reverse must reflect the greater "learn to the test" ethic of the Asians. The loss is not just to the white kids, but also to the society in that the most creative and enthusiastic do not end up where they can contribute the most.
Robert Hume
"Anyway, if I may ask: has any progress been made in learning what happened to the birth certificate of the International Man of Mystery?"
That's a great moniker for him. "International Man of Mystery." So much less contempuous than many I've heard.
Well, Donald Trump has demanded access to it. That's something.
CCLF/JSM/Sheila said:
"created, sponsored and paid for by White American people, note"
What entitles you to talk on behalf of these white companies (whatever that means) that sponsor these events? CNA, which bankrolls the Mathcounts, as well as Siemens (a Korean company) and Intel that sponsor other prestigious contests, have legions of non-Whites that they *choose* to hire.
If you want to start a whites-only contest for those whites who can't hack it against Asians/Jews, then go ahead and do so. Those whites who want their money to reward merit don't care about your opinions AT ALL.
One of the best suggestions I've read for breaking through the political stonewalling on illegal immigration is to suggest that there ought to be heavy fees associated with immigration.
Yeah, I think the main reason why we have an immigration problem is that there aren't enough good arguments against it.
Related: why does nobody criticize LEGAL immigration? Why are we taking in ~1 million legal immigrants a year with unemployment the way it is? Is there something stopping conservatives from making that argument? Instead they generally talk about how we need MORE legal immigration.
If you want to start a whites-only contest for those whites who can't hack it against Asians/Jews, then go ahead and do so. Those whites who want their money to reward merit don't care about your opinions AT ALL.
Are you for real?
In what way is the presence of these jews and asians a fair contest as regards Whites in the first place?
You think its a 'free' market? That their presence is informed by meritocracy?
Lets apply the same rules to China, to Israel and see how it works. Will we see any whining from asians and jews who cant hack it? Of course not. Stupid question because it wont be happening.
A cognative elitist speaks - as well as Siemens (a Korean company)
Anyone who doesnt know that Siemens is a German company and always has been isnt really fit to comment at all I would say.
Generally for the Left, the Constiution is just a constipation to be handled with Ex-lax--executive power and legal axe.
But birth rights citizenship is one that really sticks in our craw.
Some more stuff to make CCLF/JSM recoil in disgust like losers do:
http://www.siemens-foundation.org/pool/advanced_placement/word_listing_of_2010_saap_winners.pdf
60-70% East Asian.
"Whiskey Rebellion"
So how do you, Whiskey, feel about the "Whiskey Rebellion" that you cited?
Anybody should be able to run into your house when you open the door. They should also be able to eat your food, sleep in your room, and get a weekly allowance from your parents. If they have any relatives, those relatives should also be able to live in your house. All these new people will also be given special preferences over you and, if you attempt to move rooms to escape them, they will be sent to live with you. Every few weeks, there will be a celebration of the new "diversity" within your household.
Some of the family income will also be sent to the Rosenthal household to help the Rosenthals keep out unwanted intruders. The Rosenthal home is sacred land and the previous dwellers, who were evicted at gunpoint, keep trying to break back in. You may be called upon, at some point, to go fight the Rosenthals' enemies.
Some of the new house guests have relatives that were evicted by the Rosenthals. They dislike how you give so much money to the Rosenthals and keep attacking their relatives. Dislike to the point where they keep attacking members your family and knocking down walls. Ignore this. Keep letting these new people enter your house and also keep giving some of your family income to the Rosenthals.
Every once in a while, some of the new and more "colorful" members of your household might get angry and burn down parts of the house. If this happens, your weekly allowance will be reduced to help fund rebuilding efforts. Money will also be given to the colorful residents, as you have been oppressing them.
To finance all this extra expenditure, your family will need to take a huge loan from the bank. Unfortunately, the bank can't lend your family money because your rating is crap. Don't worry, as the Chan family (you know, those gangbangers across the street with assault rifles pointed at your house) will lend you all you need. Just put your house up as colleteral.
Every night, there will be a story time. Your parents will tell the new comers that they are the rightful owners of the house - and that you, yes you, illegally stole it from them. You will be allowed to watch tv and listen to radio too, but FOX and talk radio are banned. Instead, you will be directed to watch MSNBC and listen to NPR.
Sometimes when the newcomers sneak in through the unlocked front door, they will give birth to children and then disappear. These new children are now residents of your house.
If you suggest locking the front door to prevent more people from sneaking in, you will be laughed at. Locking a front door is impossible. The only front door that can be locked is the Rosenthals'.
One day, your basement may be flooded - and the basement dwellers may start fist fighting and stealing things. This is your fault, as you haven't spent enough money on remodeling the basement over the years. When you don't spend enough money on remodeling, people get into fist fights.
The Suzuki family, who live across the street, keep their door locked all the time and seem to be experiencing less friction within their house. Ignore them, as they have nothing to teach you.
In your house, any time an opportunity comes up to do a chore (in exchange for allowance) there's always several household members jostling over who gets opportunity. Therefore, your parents will institute a guest helper program and let the neighor kids start doing chores in your house. This new helpers will alleviate the "shortage" of help in your house.
You used to cook dinner for the family. No more. Instead, your parents will be buying ready-made-dinner from the Chans. However, the Chans don't know how to cook. So you will train them in how to cook dinner. Then you will cook no more.
Some people in your house constantly like to praise the Rosenthals and demean you. A few weeks ago, they provoked a fight between you and the Rosenthals' old enemies, during which you sustained a few bruises. These people will now be given partial control over the family budget and assist your parents in running the house. They are smarter than you.
"Yeah, I think the main reason why we have an immigration problem is that there aren't enough good arguments against it."
The best argument, not often used, is that immigration of non-whites spurs anomie among everyone in the US. Not only is there distrust and withdrawal and reduction in community activity between races, but also among races, including among whites. These are conclusions of the Harvard Sociologist Robert Putnam, and I see it about me every day, including in my own feelings.
I can't think of a better reason to restrict immigration than that it destroys society.
Perhaps the Japanese understand this intuitively. On the other hand, paradoxically, comparative happiness studies show that they are comparatively unhappy. Perhaps they are too crowded? Or still suffering from depression from losing WWII?
Robert Hume
" Of course they want them replaced! They're not sexy! So anything and everything that replaces icky Beta Male White guys is good"
Holy cow, what a revelation! Replacing beta (White) guys with even more beta, even more sexless, even ickier (Chinese) guys is what us (White) women want! Yeah, I can totally see it now! Of course! Why didn't I think of that?
Related: why does nobody criticize LEGAL immigration? Why are we taking in ~1 million legal immigrants a year with unemployment the way it is? Is there something stopping conservatives from making that argument? Instead they generally talk about how we need MORE legal immigration.
Lying Eyes wrote about that - good article.
In any case, I* do criticize legal immigration. If you want a handy phrase that gets to your point without an odd-sounding phrase like "make immigration more illegal" or "reduce legal...", talk about reducing the number of visas issued by the government. That will help to emphasize the point that Herman-Hoppe makes - that legal immigration is the result of government intervention. Getting the government to reduce or eliminate immigrant and student visas, at least, gets the government doing less and reduces total immigration.
Securing the borders takes government effort, but it is of the traditional kind that conservatives (not of the neolibertarian variety!) can get behind.
* I describe myself as a formalist, ethnopluralist heathen, rather than a conservative.
MathCOUNTS was founded in 1982, when American was still nearly 90% White, by National Society of Professional Engineers (i.e., by and large White Americans educated in American taxpayer-funded schools). -- Note the "National" as opposed to "International" or "Global"? -- and National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (teachers who are, by and large, American taxpayer-paid).
Since 2009 MathCOUNTS' primary sponsor is Raytheon. Raytheon started in UK (a White country). SO, Raytheon had the benefit of the laws developed by White people (Englishmen).
*****
Siemens is German (or at least it was until globalization by greedy "Citizens of the World" grabbed the directorship). Germany is a White country.
******
CNA started in America in 1897, incorporated in 1967 when America was still 90% White, which means it benefitted from laws written by (White) Americans, profited from serving (White) Americans and built by the intelligence and of (White) American actuaries.
****
Just because the Hostile Elite are okay with committing treason against us White Americans doesn't make it okay with me.
If greedy, disloyal corporations want to recruit from other nationalities besides (White) American, then let them do it by contests IN those countries; and when they've recruited them, let them employ them IN those countries so these arrogant globalist corporations can enjoy dealing with those countries' corruption and inclinations to go expropriating on 'em, rather than importing these foreigners here to infest (White) American institutions.
How can I start a competition? If I could manage it and it became popular, it'd just be coopted by the Citizens of the World, just as MathCOUNTS has been.
Shrug. Calling me "loser" doesn't hurt my feelings. If the Chinese were such winners, they wouldn't be trying so hard to get OUT of China and get into the country my ancestors built and bequeathed to me.
I *DO* get my feelings hurt thinking about the plight of the smart (White) boys in America. THEY have done NOTHING to deserve the crap they're getting.
Robert Hume:
There are two points here that need to be distinguished:
a. Immigrants with more ability, who beat out previous American kids by simply being smarter.
b. Immigrants with a culture of harder work, who beat out previous American kids by simply working harder.
As a nation, we probably benefit more from (a) long term--people who are raised in the US will very likely become Americans, live here, intermarry with other Americans and raise families here, etc. To the extent that their greater intelligence is genetic, those genes will stick around long after they're gone, assuming they can be convinced to have kids. In general, having more smart people in your society is probably a complete win.
The problem with (b) is a game-theoretic one: If new entrants cram for high-stakes tests, it may become necessary for all students to start cramming just as hard. To the extent this benefits those kids later (they start college having already mastered calculus, having covered history and literature at a depth sufficient for a college degree, etc.), this might be a win. But to the extent it's just valuable for raising scores on tests, it represents a huge waste of time and energy on the part of kids who could be playing, pursuing hobbies that would be useful and fun later in life, etc. (My fourth-grade son has enough homework that it's rarely workable for him to, say, get out his microscope and look at samples he's gathered on school nights, or spend time with me trying to learn to program. I worry about this effect, as we all become high-stakes-test cram artists.)
Birthright citizenship would work fine, perhaps with some tweaks to avoid obvious scams like the one in the article, if we controlled our borders properly. Immigration is 99% an issue of numbers. If we had 1/20 the rate of immigration into the US we do now, and it were 99% legally allowed immigration, the whole thing would be a non-issue. Just be careful not to let known or suspected terrorists, criminals, spies, or carriers of contagious diseases in. We don't even need any new powers, or to declare part of our constitution "quaint," or to build up some new godawful bureaucratic empire to do this--it's all powers explicitly in the hands of the federal government. (Isn't it odd, then, that so little of the post-9/11 security state buildup involved doing this?)
Continuing massive illegal immigration and eliminating birthright citizenship looks like a disaster to me. We end up with a vast population of second-class humans in our country, folks who've lived here two or three generations, speak nothing but English, but have few legal rights, and who can be deported or arrested for being here anytime someone decides to.
Similarly, birthright citizenship plus massive illegal immigration means a different kind of disaster--lots of families where the parents are here illegally (allowed to work with a wink), but their kids are citizens who've grown up here. Eventually, it leads to simply accepting that our level of immigration will be determined by summing up the demand for low-wage labor that won't unionize or complain about legal violations over the years.
The right solution, IMO, is to keep birthright citizenship, but get control of our borders. This isn't some impossibly hard thing like building a fusion power plant or a practical quantum computer or an ansible--it's just doing stuff lots of other countries do. Make the fines for employing illegal immigrants in large numbers prohibitively high, scale them with the square or cube of the number of illegals working for you, and the demand for illegal immigrants on the job will dry up. They're not being employed for ideological reasons, after all, but for economic ones--Salvadorans will work harder for lower wages than Americans, since they're used to the standard of living of third-world peasants, not working-class Americans.
No change to the constitution needed, no new governmental powers needed, no vast new bureaucratic empire to be built. Just pass a law specifying the fine, perhaps with a rider that lets illegal immigrants who inform on their employer collect a cut of the collected fine. (I think most illegal immigrants want to earn enough to buy a house and get married back home, so this is pretty workable--work ten years at the chicken processing plant, or inform on your employer--either way, you go home with enough money saved up to buy a house and get married.)
"That may be, but conservatives didn't oppose that interpretation[that it's legal for pregnant women to come to the US to have 'anchor babies'] for over a 100 yrs. In fact, Americans took pride in it when most of the immigrants were coming from Europe."
Apples and oranges. As I understand it, the problem of "anchor babies" didn't exist 100 years ago and even if it did, the lack of a generous social safety net kept it comparatively small. That's not the case today.
"So, it looks rather foolish for conservatives FINALLY get riled up over that interpretation. They should have challenged it many many yrs ago."
Foolish? How so? When that Constitutional Amendment was not being exploited, there was no problem with it and thus, no need for a solution. Now there is. From here, it looks as though conservatives are sufficiently flexible in their thinking to adapt to change without violating their core principles.
I'm old enough to remember when metal hair picks became popular. Those who were assaultively inclined (how's that for a euphemism?) soon learned the picks made fine weapons. So the manufacturers switched to plastic. When McDonalds's little tiny spoons started being used for cocaine, McDonalds's stopped distributing them.
There is nothing "foolish" about changing something because the criminally inclined have found a way to exploit its loopholes and use it for a purpose for which it was not intended.
If the average non-Jewish white IQ is 100, and the average Asian 105, then there should be six times as many white non-Jewish mathematicians as Asian mathematicians if they have to have an IQ over 140.
I never said there aren't any white kids that are good at math. There are plenty, but they're in Westchester County, they're not 6 random kids in Bumfsck Wyoming.
"The best argument, not often used, is that immigration of non-whites spurs anomie among everyone in the US. Not only is there distrust and withdrawal and reduction in community activity between races, but also among races, including among whites."
Which is why a clear majority wants immigration reduced, but the government, which wants to micromanage society, understands that its power grows as everyone becomes increasingly alienated from their neighbors. And the violent thugocracy of blacks and Hispanics maintained by Obama's welfare empire keeps every one hiding out in their living rooms watching TV. Who would dare overthrow an evil government -- to turn the streets over to the street rats? The US Govt plays Vito Corleone -- who will do you favors if you show respect.
Okay, the Siemens thing was a stupid mistake on my part - I was thinking Samsung for some reason.
"A cognative elitist speaks"
Correct your spelling first - that squiggly red line probably means something, and is ironic given your comment on the fitness of others to comment.
"I've never heard anyone claim there were no Japanese spies here at the start of ww2, just that the threat of sabotage and spying was far too small to justify shipping a hundred thousand people to internment camps. Before the mass internment, a much smaller number of suspected Japanese, German, and Italian spies were interned, which seems likely to have addressed most of the risk there."
i've never heard a modern european or jewish liberal ever, EVER, suggest that interring even a few suspected japanese spies was acceptable. according to everything i have ever read from them back to 1990, interning any japanese people in the US was a major insult rather than a practical necessary evil during a time of war, and just another racist action by a group of people who are the greatest racist villians in the history of the world.
liberals never talk about the germans and italians interred. just absolutely, positively never. occassionally a conservative will remind people that it happened, but that's not part of a liberal's agenda. and germans are the largest group in the US and, along with the english, have done more than any group to create the US as it exists today. they are by far the most loyal group of americans. after being forcefully coerced to destroy their ethnic identity by the proper avenues of assimilation, they've turned into a backbone group. how many german seperatists, ethnic activists, political boosters are there, funneling money to germany, agitating for german immigration or affirmative action, trying to force the US congress to take germany's side in any dispute with random, far away nations? the idea is a laughable, as germans and part germans in the US have deliberately destroyed any ethnic identity they may have had 200 years ago. guys like david letterman, glen beck, and keith olbermann would not even claim that they have an identity. just non-existant, non-descript, no-culture white guys, is what they would say about themselves. i'm nothing, and i have no group and no history.
if you want to know how stupid current US policy is towards this kind of stuff, just look at how japan treats korean immigrants. even 4th generation koreans are carefully monitored, have limited rights, are required to always carry identification, and are never considered japanese.
i recently saw a japanese news investigation into north korean immigrants and how resistant they are to assimilation, how they consider themselves purely north koreans, and how every day they go to north korean high schools set up in japan, conducted in all korean, where they swear allegiance to north korea.
koreans and japanese are somewhat similar genetically, yet they maintain rigid social distance from each other even after decades of living together. the japanese don't see north korean escapees are a source of good, productive, high IQ contributors to japanese society, let alone the south korean immigrants - even though it is probably true that taking a slow and steady stream of north korean refugees actually would offer japan plenty of blue collar laborers, as well as allow japan in the future to tap into some of the undeveloped brainpower up there in north korea which is being stiffled by communism. japan could, probably, do a little brain draining of south korea. certainly japan could brain drain a lot of china - but that's unthinkable.
The white people here are cute, with all of their ideas on how to slow down or eliminate immigration both illegal and legal.
Who will implement your supersmart ideas? The Repukes? Laughable: zero evidence that they will do anything you suggest; in fact, all evidence points the other way. I don't even have to mention the other guys.
Brown people use and rely upon maximum govt services. This gives the govt, either party, maximum control over their votes (even in the last election, I noted that Repukes were trying to scare people into voting for them on the notion that Dims wanted to take away their Medicare and SS goody-baskets. In other words, modern Repuke propaganda exactly mirrors what the Dims have done for the past 40 years). If you whites would act more like browns -- have lots of children beyond your means and soak up maximum govt services -- the parties would care more about catering to your whims, duh.
Silly white people, why can't you learn? The Pukes and Dims only care about owning your next vote, and they'll do this by paying for it through welfare and benes and useless govt paper-pusher jobs. If they have to print the money to do so, they're more than willing, as they've abundantly shown. Yeah, both parties are all in on this tactic.
How do white people cope with this reality? By furiously commenting on blogs, of course, comments full of brilliant solutions for what ails white America. And then nothing -- retire to 60+ hours of TV-watching per week, just like every other American, tending to the expansion of your ever-widening asses. The elites don't care about you, because they're not afraid of you. They know your protest extends no further than a few laughable, limp "Tea Party" rallies, where they feel completely safe mocking you as Teabaggers.
This will all end with hyperinflation, violence, famine, and destruction. How else could it end? No politician can survive when he suggests real budget cuts, tax hikes, or resource acquisition. Buh-bye, USA.
And since I think it's best to end on a positive note, here's a tip for you: move close to a someplace that grows food; get the hell out of metro areas, because it will be nothing but a Darwinian survival-of-the-fittest nightmare come to life.
"...the violent thugocracy of blacks and Hispanics maintained by Obama's welfare empire keeps every one hiding out in their living rooms watching TV."
Not everyone. There are those who are at the range practicing or in their basements or garages reloading and casting. If you don't know any, you really should widen your circle of acquaintances.
"Who would dare overthrow an evil government -- to turn the streets over to the street rats?"
Surely you don't think anyone would overthrow the government, only to turn control of the streets over to the street rats. My guess--and that's "guess", not "plan" or "intention"--is that once the government was overthrown, the street rats would be the first to go.
"The US Govt plays Vito Corleone -- who will do you favors if you show respect."
I neither need nor want any favors from the current US government and I show respect only when it is earned. I know not to expect it to defend me. I also know the day may come when I have to defend myself against it.
You really need to get out more.
Jody, and is this policy of the Japanese an intelligent policy or a stupid policy? Should we admire this kind of thing or think of it as a piece of crude, silly barbarism? The Koreans in this instance seem to be a silly, barbaric people as well.
Once upon a time the difference between a Slav or a Frenchman and an Englishman was considered enormous, practically insurmountable. Yet in America these enormous differences were obliterated.
Can Asians and whites obliterate their differences and coalesce into one people? Who knows? Maybe. The fact is that simultaneously with opening up immigration to non-whites, America dropped the ideal of assimilation. The two went hand in hand.
The social fracturing we see in America today can easily be a product of not requiring non-whites to assimilate. The moment we decided to let non-whites in, we encouraged them to stay apart and retain their alien identity, so the experiment has never been done - who knows how well different ethnicities can be welded into one organic unity?
That this was once thought impossible with regard to Slavs and Anglos is some evidence that it is not impossible. Historically, too, most states are in fact mixes of heterogeneous elements, so there seems no reason why this should be impossible. The idea of race as a basis for a state is of modern origin, and originated in Europe, and replaced older,more stable principles of political organization.
Some level of social unity is necessary, but this can be social,cultural, linguistic, and does not have to be racial.
"Maybe those 6 just aren't that good at math."
I'm not surprised that Jews and Asians are unsympathetic with the plight of White American boys.
"I never said there aren't any white kids that are good at math. There are plenty, but they're in Westchester County, they're not 6 random kids in Bumfsck Wyoming."
Yeah, WY does, indeed, have six White boy math-Whizzes.
Hardly random. Kids with the wherewithal to make it to the State level of MathCOUNTS do, indeed, have a bit upstairs.
Northern Europeans of EuroChristian heritate with middling accomplishments are awesome at occasionly sproinging off geniuses:
Exh. 1: Evan O'Donley
Other examples: Isaac Newton, who came from a farm family; Henry Ford, farm kid; Storey Musgrave, the astronaut who fixed Hubble and flew all 5 shuttles, grew up fixing tractors and dropped out of high school to join the military, farm kid.
"There are plenty, but they're in Westchester County"
Izzat so?
Funny, then that the New York math team for 2010 was... at least 2 Asians, going by last names. (Team member no. 4 didn't score in top 56 so no way of telling ethnicity by last name.) So at least 2 of 4 of the team members hailing from the locale where all the smart White boys are congregated, according to you, are Asians.
And in 2009, the NY team didn't even make the top 25 in team rankings.
Meanwhile, a White kid from West Virginia (!) scored well enough (39th out of about 220 kids) that his team finished 20th.
"guys like david letterman, glen beck, and keith olbermann would not even claim that they have an identity. just non-existant, non-descript, no-culture white guys, is what they would say about themselves. i'm nothing, and i have no group and no history"
Can't they consider themselves a white American? I was brought up a white American without prominent ancestry worship.
"Can Asians and whites obliterate their differences and coalesce into one people?"
Yes, if Asians remain a small minority.
"If the Chinese were such winners, they wouldn't be trying so hard to get OUT of China and get into the country my ancestors built and bequeathed to me."
China = Japan x 15. Let's discuss this in another 30 years.
"I'm not surprised that Jews and Asians are unsympathetic with the plight of White American boys."
I'm unsympathetic to the plight of any individual who couldn't hack it and whines about it - be it Asian, Jewish, White, Brown, or Black. Don't project your insular views regarding tribal bonds on to others who might be largely immune to such sentiments.
"Exh. 1: Evan O'Donley"
It's Evan O'Dorney. A genius no doubt, and one who probably keeps the company of other Asian/Jewish geniuses who dominate the ranks of the IMO. He's a grind and a home-schooled kid (none of which are inconsistent with being a genius), but let's ignore that EXCEPT when characterizing Asian achievement.
Finally, almost nobody cares whether Whites started the institutions that sponsor prizes that non-Whites have come to dominate. Definitely not the elites who do the bankrolling. Don't speak on behalf of others, or produce statistics to bolster your argument if you must generalize. Also, what next? Are you going to start whining when Asians start to dominate the ranks of Nobel Laureates, which I expect to see in the next 20-30 years (Japan has done especially well this decade, and China will follow in it's footsteps).
i recently saw a japanese news investigation into north korean immigrants and how resistant they are to assimilation, how they consider themselves purely north koreans, and how every day they go to north korean high schools set up in japan, conducted in all korean, where they swear allegiance to north korea.
koreans and japanese are somewhat similar genetically, yet they maintain rigid social distance from each other even after decades of living together. the japanese don't see north korean escapees are a source of good, productive, high IQ contributors to japanese society, let alone the south korean immigrants - even though it is probably true that taking a slow and steady stream of north korean refugees actually would offer japan plenty of blue collar laborers, as well as allow japan in the future to tap into some of the undeveloped brainpower up there in north korea which is being stiffled by communism. japan could, probably, do a little brain draining of south korea. certainly japan could brain drain a lot of china - but that's unthinkable.
So, are Japanese cognitively elite, or not?
Maybe "cognitive elitism" is a hijacked term? Maybe it really means "ethnocentric xenophobe," and people who say "cognitive elitism" really mean "yellow supremacist." I'm so confuuuuused.
certainly japan could brain drain a lot of china - but that's unthinkable.
An excellent point, that.
Why don't the oh-so-smart, oh-so-civilized Japanese take advantage of all those Chinese brains?
Japan could be a paradise. Are the Japanese stupid, or what?
No, they have yellow skin, so we know they're "cognitively elite," and that means "really smart." So they can't be stupid.
'Splain this for me, "cognitive elitists," please. Why hasn't Japan tapped the vast brain reserves of China? Masochists? Losers? What? Help me out here guys.
Anon:
These are discussions that have been actively suppressed in public for many years. Having them in public, trading ideas and insights, pointing out evidence and arguments, that's necessary, in order to work out what policies would make more sense.
I don't know whether we'll ever see such policies enacted. As I said on another thread, I think our political system more-or-less selects for sociopaths, the kind of folks who'd sell their own mother down the river to get another term in office. But without working out what policies would make sense, without having these conversations in public we have needed for so long, it's hard to imagine we'll be able to come up with any better plans that hiding in a hole and waiting for the collapse.
I never said there aren't any white kids that are good at math. There are plenty, but they're in Westchester County, they're not 6 random kids in Bumfsck Wyoming.
In case you didn't know, there's a stereotype about Ashkenazi-Americans, that they hate rural people, culture, etc. I've found it to be an accurate one (as far as that kind of thing goes; humans are complex, as we all know), but YMMV. But my point is, you might not have known about this stereotype, or wanted to back into reinforcing it, so FYI.
"Can Asians and whites obliterate their differences and coalesce into one people?"
Don't change forms. "Asians and Europeans" or "yellows and whites," not "Asians and whites."
Or should I start the "Europeans and yellows" pettiness?
Sure, they've been doing it for eons. Check out central Asia. Oh, and central and South America, more or less.
There are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people whose white and yellow ancestors coalesced into single peoples.
M-I-L-L-I-O-N-S.
And they've been around for
E-o-n-s. Way before the invention of Anime.
There IS NO MYSTERY HERE. NO DISCOVERY TO BE MADE.
You're just ignorant (I don't mean that in a bad way; I didn't know jack about central Asia until recently - now I know a teetee).
This will all end with hyperinflation, violence, famine, and destruction. How else could it end?
I agreed with your rant up until this part. I think the system will just keep chugging along.
But they know their children can return easily in the future to enjoy such benefits as free public education.
The irony being that most affluent white Americans are horrified by the idea of subjecting their children to "free public education."
@agnostic
Australia is in the same mess as the UK & USA. It is just harder to reach by those desiring to immigrate. But don't worry, their government is working hard to make it easier, at tax payer expense of course.
"I never said there aren't any white kids that are good at math. There are plenty, but they're in Westchester County, they're not 6 random kids in Bumfsck Wyoming."
Math genius, while present in the Jewish community, is not so common as the gift of gab. If you look at elite math department faculties, white goyim are still a clear majority. And when a mathemetician does come out of Bumfsck, Wyoming, he's usually a very significant one since by the nature of his environment he must be sui generis.
In case you didn't know, there's a stereotype about Ashkenazi-Americans, that they hate rural people, culture, etc. I've found it to be an accurate one (as far as that kind of thing goes; humans are complex, as we all know), but YMMV. But my point is, you might not have known about this stereotype, or wanted to back into reinforcing it, so FYI. - Svigor
Yes, that did need to be said. It's sad that it needed to be said, but there you go. There is no Anti-Defamation League of No Apostrophes to say it, but I guess there is MR.
"Also, what next? Are you going to start whining when Asians start to dominate the ranks of Nobel Laureates"
No, provided they do it China.
Coming to America, being educated in American schools built and paid for by American (White, for the most part) taxpayers, employed by ostensibly American companies that benefit from American laws and sell to American consumers, yeah, I'm going to complain.
"Japan has done especially well this decade,"
Really? Wow. Their chart for the last 3 years looks pretty sick to me. You sure about that?
Do you mean the '80s, when the asset bubble blew up and then popped?
Or do you mean the free money Japan has been giving world traders since, in the form of the Yen carry trade (as Japan's central bank has tried with zero success to get the country's gravy train moving agin')
?
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$NIKK&p=D&yr=3&mn=0&dy=0&id=p78889827767
"and China will follow in it's footsteps."
Which footsteps? The radioactive ones?
China has devastated and poisoned its environment, causing who-knows-how-much brain damage to its infants, in a short-term orgy of mass production by wage-slaves of worthless crap to sell to broke Americans on credit.
This is not a sustainable business plan.
You ever hear the old adage: "Owe the bank 1000 bucks, it's your problem; owe the bank 10 million, it's the bank's"?
Well, America is the one owing 10 mil and China's the bank.
When America, shortly, can do nothing but welsh on the debt, China will be sitting on a mountain of worthless paper and toxic slag, good only as a playground for their brain-damaged children.
I'm not bullish on the Chinese. I'm a contrarian. I'm now bullish on Northwestern European man.
The right solution, IMO, is to keep birthright citizenship, but get control of our borders.
What about getting rid of birthright citizenship (which is NOT in the Constitution) and getting control of the borders? That's the one possibility you don't consider.
"Can Asians and whites obliterate their differences and coalesce into one people?"
I'm all for finding out; Why don't you move to China?
"Meanwhile, a White kid from West Virginia (!) scored well enough (39th out of about 220 kids) that his team finished 20th."
Ooh, hey, 39th. Any word on whom they're going to commission to carve his statue?
"Ooh, hey, 39th. Any word on whom they're going to commission to carve his statue?"
Truth, West Virginia is, in the opinion of the haters of us hayseeds, like the very definition of Bumfsckistan.
MathCOUNTS Nationals is a quite elite level of mathematics competition for middle-school kids. Only 4 kids from each state make it on the team, after having slogged through local and whole-state competitions.
Seeing West Virginia's team beat New York, the team that includes Westchester County where, we're reliably told, all the smart White kids reside, is, honestly, impressive. Gobsmacking, even.
That kid DOES deserve a statue on the front lawn of the courthouse in Charleston, at the least.
"Math genius, while present in the Jewish community, is not so common as the gift of gab. If you look at elite math department faculties, white goyim are still a clear majority. And when a mathemetician does come out of Bumfsck, Wyoming, he's usually a very significant one since by the nature of his environment he must be sui generis."
This is what occasionally pops out of the middle American gene pool. (It never pops out of the black or Hispanic gene pool.)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/for-12-year-old-astrophysics-prodigy-the-skys-the-limit
"Really? Wow. Their chart for the last 3 years looks pretty sick to me. You sure about that?"
Is it so hard to ascertain, from the context, that I was alluding to Nobel laureates?
In just the last 3 years, they've had in the sciences the following Nobel laureates:
Akira Suzuki
Ei-ichi Negishi
Osamu Shimomura
Makoto Kobayashi
Toshihide Maskawa
Yoichiro Nambu
"When America, shortly, can do nothing but welsh on the debt, China will be sitting on a mountain of worthless paper and toxic slag, good only as a playground for their brain-damaged children."
Repeat after me - SHANGHAI HAS MORE HIGH-ACHIEVING MATH STUDENTS THAN THE ENTIRE WHITE GENTILE POPULATION. Something called PISA that Steve blogged about. Brain-damaged? I'd like that kind of brain damage.
"I'm not bullish on the Chinese. I'm a contrarian. I'm now bullish on Northwestern European man."
Yeah! The optimism of the HBD-blogosphere must have rubbed off on to you.
Uh,
The theory, from what I understand, as we're told by Asians in America looking to import more of their own, goes: Smart People doing Important Stuff (you know, like, say, the kind of people who win Nobel Prizes) will translate into economic development for us pitiful, inept, slacker White Americans. And that's why we need all these "cognitive elitist" immigrants, so they can Help the Economy, or some such like that.
So... if the number of Nobels won is climbing while the economy is falling off a cliff, something wrong with that there analysis.
Which is why I tried to point to Nikkei's chart. 60 years of first-world education for its youngsters, and increasing numbers of Nobels to go with it, but that chart is siiiiiiiiick.
"Yeah! The optimism of the HBD-blogosphere must have rubbed off on to you.'
Shrug. I was a goldbug in 2004 when The Wizards of Financial Engineering told us to buy a house we can't afford because its price can only go up, all the while assuring us gold is a barbarous relic.
Goldbugs are not generally known for optimism. We ARE known, (now at least) for appreciating undervalued assets and shying away from overvalued ones.
The world works like the stockmarket works (because the stock market is moved by human emotion written overtop of human ability). Just like when everybody and his brother starts telling you the stock market can only go up, buy, buy, buy, the bear market is just about to rip you to bits.
Same with ethnys. When the crowing and triumphalism reaches a deafening crescendo, like you're providing now, the top (for you guys) is in.
"Also, what next? Are you going to start whining when Asians start to dominate the ranks of Nobel Laureates, which I expect to see in the next 20-30 years (Japan has done especially well this decade, and China will follow in it's footsteps)."
Also, it's a weeeeee bit disingenuous to credit Japan for people of Japanese birth who were educated and/or did their Nobel-level work in labs and universities built by Americans for Americans and funded by American taxpayers.
The list you've constructed is certainly not enough to change MY bearish stance on Asia, in view of the evidence of the last decade. (Stock chart bubble-burst, then a correction-reaction, then recent new lows, demonstrating continuance of the bear market.)
"Repeat after me - SHANGHAI HAS MORE HIGH-ACHIEVING MATH STUDENTS THAN THE ENTIRE WHITE GENTILE POPULATION"
Nah, I won't be doing that until you prove it. Links, please. How do you define "high achieving"? And how did you arrive at your estimates for the child populations of Shanghai and the child populations of White gentiles?
Repeat after me - SHANGHAI HAS MORE HIGH-ACHIEVING MATH STUDENTS THAN THE ENTIRE WHITE GENTILE POPULATION"
Repeat after me; very, very soon, a cognitively elite Ashkenazi-American is going to come along and bash you for suggesting that Jews aren't white.
Seriously though, what is this, the discussion of how China's gonna pwn us as soon as the Jews make Aliyah?
Severn:
The worst case is that we get rid of birthright citizenship, but don't control our borders. The result of that is a large and ever-growing multi-generation population of explicit foreigners, with no rights and little connection to the US, kept and imported to keep labor costs down. It doesn't take any great imagination to see how that could turn sour on us some day, and it's also likely to involve some genuinely nasty treatment of the nth-generation immigrants.
If we get control of our borders and deal somehow with the 12 million or so illegals here now (ideally in some way that's not monstrously nasty and also doesn't create an incentive for the next 12 million to come), then getting rid of birthright citizenship is probably not that big of a deal, but it's also not that big of a priority. I believe that requires a change in the constitution, so it's not trivially done.
Inviting in Chinese might make sense if the offer were reciprocated. But that's a lot of doing on the Chinese side. They're going to have to allow people to own real estate, set up mechanisms protecting foreigners, etc., for starters. Reform their whole system, really. Then open their borders. Or correct for opportunity and reward, e.g., letting in twice as many Americans as we let in Chinese.
I won't hold my breath.
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