From the New York Times:
Martin Spoke of ‘Crazy and Creepy’ Man Following Him, Friend Says
By Serge F. Kovaleski
... In the sworn interview recorded on April 2, which runs more than 22 minutes, the unidentified 16-year-old said Mr. Martin described a man who was “crazy and creepy” and on the phone, watching him from a vehicle before he started to follow him on foot.
Keep in mind that the cops didn't get to talk to this unidentified girl until almost two weeks after attorney Benjamin Crump coached her through a talk with ABC News, and that there is no recording of this phone call (unless Echelon has it, of course).
But, this new report, especially the word "creepy" (which might be, for all we know, attorney Crump's suggested replacement for Martin's even more explicit term for sexual deviance), fits in with my surmise back in March that Trayvon Martin might well have thought that George Zimmerman was following him for homosexual purposes. As I blogged then:
It's hardly implausible that Trayvon Martin might have worried that this strange man was following him in the dark for homoerotic purposes, and he might have mentioned that concern to his girlfriend over the phone.
Of course, if he did, he probably wouldn't have used the term "homoerotic purposes."
What if Trayvon used the (heavens) "3-letter F-word" to describe Zimmerman? What if he said to her, "I'm going to punch that f__ because I hate f___?"
Chaos in the courtroom!
The media originally pumped up this story under the mindset that, of course, a black child would be terrified of roving white racists like George Zimmerman. I mean, aren't we always looking for an example of an evil white male attacking unprovoked a 17-year-old black male for white racist reasons? Pulitzer! Movie adaptation! I'm sure Trayvon was just as Pulitzer-crazed as we are, so that must be what he was thinking, too, right?
But, what if it wasn't about race? It always made far more sense that if Trayvon was acting perfectly innocent and feeling perfectly innocent (i.e., not casing houses to break into and not looking to score drugs), then the youth was most likely experiencing fear and loathing of a man he suspected to be gay.
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45 comments:
Oh it just keeps getting better and better. What's the phrase?? "these are interesting times we live in". Can't decide whether to mix a cocktail and sit back and watch or grab a pitchfork and........actually not sure what I would di with a pitchfork. Di they even sell them anymore?
Dan in dc
Per ThinkProgress today it's now about anti-Muslim bias too
This article is classic - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/342707/20120518/sacha-braon-cohen-hasidic-jews-jerusalem-dictator.htm
Sacha Baron Cohen chased by "Hasidic nutcases".
Perfect, if true.
These fools (the Leftwing and their media flunkeys) could be hoist on their own petard.
Can't wait.
Anon.
The fact is that black american males are even more likely to be homophobic than republican redneck males. So it is certainly possible that Trayvon felt he was being stalked by a homosexual. The THC in his system could also have contributed to his paranoia.
Nah, I think Trayon noticed that Zimmerman is kinda chubby and was trying to steal his skittles. Trayvon, high on weed, had the munchies and didn't want nobody to steal his candy.
Gay bashing, you say? Perhaps it was a lovers' brawl. Or maybe even a case of BDSM gone horribly wrong. Someone should look into these possibilities.
"Nah, I think Trayon noticed that Zimmerman is kinda chubby and was trying to steal his skittles. Trayvon, high on weed, had the munchies and didn't want nobody to steal his candy."
No, I think exactly the opposite. Trayvon was exited by the attention George was giving him, and being high and horny, tried to lure him with the skittles. But Zimmerman was on a diet, so Martin was unsuccessful. Feeling scorned and humiliated, Martin lashed out. Don't ask the girlfriend. They are always the last to know.
Certainly a possibility and the resultant SWPL brainburn would be amusing ... but the far more likely explanation is that Trayvon was casing out the nabe with an eye toward burglary, just as Zimmerman suspected.
You certainly could be right about the gay dimension. We'll see.
My reaction has increasingly been - "Why no shame?"
Shouldn't some black community leader step forward and lecture his black flock on their own behavior and how they should take some responsibility for it? None of the black leaders has expressed sympathy for the besieged whites.
Increasingly the black community seems to act as if their much feared male teenage progeny have a right to not be disturbed in their "hunting grounds". No black I have heard so far has chastised Martin for being there. It was stupid for him to have done so and the penalty for stupidity is death.
The white public was shocked that the black public seemed to have accepted in the Simpson case that a black man would routinely beat his white wife. This case seems to be another where black attitudes are revealed to be significantly different from those of whites.
Most white folks in that neighborhood will view roaming black teens with horror. Most black folks will have a kid in jail or soon to be in jail. They will be unlikely to support curfews, profiling or identity checks. That alone means things will get worse. The gulf widens.
Even Fox News in light of all the evidence that Zimmerman was being beaten up when he pulled his gun, express sympathy for Trayvon and his family. I think many white people's reaction is different.
I think many will think to themselves - "What did he expect?" He was a scary black kid acting scary in a besieged white neighborhood. Derbyshire warned whites to not consort with blacks at night in black neighborhoods. Apparently there is no black Derbyshire to warn black teens to avoid looking like criminals at night in white neighborhoods where there have been so much criminal activity.
Albertosaurus
No. This can't get much worse for The Narrative. My perusal of leftist blogs shows an interesting new phenomenon. The Trayvonners have upgraded the non-crime of 'following' to the more sinister sounding 'stalking'. So, the standard line is 'ok, he was on his back being pummeled by the drug-fueled, non-choir boy, but the whole thing would never have happened if Z had not followed, sorry stalked, T. Therefore Z is a Nazi who deserves the Chair.'
But stalking is something completely different in criminal law. And what is the definition of 'following' anyway? It's not much to rest a case on.
Gilbert P.
This is the best question white Zimmerman supporters never answer:
What do white people tell their white children to do when:
1. They are being followed by a car at night while walking home.
2. Inside the car is a shifty looking "latino" man.
3. They run and the shifty looking latino man chases them.
4. The shifty looking Latino man corners them and tells them they must wait with him until the police arrive.
So, all you white people, what do you tell little TYLER, and BECKY to do if this happens to them?
*Disclosure -- I suspect Zimmerman attempted to DETAIN Martin so he had something to "show for" when the cops arrived. Other wise, he's just standing there like an empty bag of dorritos*
Will Smith slaps 'creepy' guy. Smith a 'homophobe'?
Btw, is a misogynist a 'hophobe'?
A person who dislikes bums a 'hobophobe'?
http://youtu.be/uvDoAxQg_AI
Zimmerman was in his neighbourhood the hoodie was not in his and acting suspiciously wandering as if on drugs.
Martin was the stalker as he proved when he was 100 feet from home and turned around to go back 200 feet to attack Zimmerman.
I bet Trayvon was just wandering around aimlessly and got riled when he saw Zimmerman approaching him. It doesn't take much at all for a black male to feel "dissed". And when such a male sees that the person supposedly "dissing" him is unlikely to be able to fight back, then any chance of a civil encounter is virtually nil.
Based on my observations of tetchy black males, I'd say criminal intent, drug use and homophobia were peripheral issues if indeed they were factors at all.
Blacks,like Kobe,rouitnely refer to non-black men as "f****t".(It is not necessarily a sexual choice reference. Perhaps they are referencing George Carlin's famous line about the difference between a "f**" and a "q****". A f** is a guy who is too scared to go downtown and beat up q*****s! ) Blacks accept that other men are lesss manly than they. Its an implicit bow to HBD,with the blacks realizing the obvious. With their higher aggression,lower IQ,higher impulsiveness,higher T,thicker bones(!!),and the tendons therein,and those fast twitch genes Steve once wrote about,(Blacks have the most,white sin the middle,Asians the least)they are the standard of tough--in a street brawl.(The USG once had,as we all know,all-black military units.To coin a phrase:Never Again!!!!!!) All the more morally repugnant to hear the blacks blubbering how this child was so scared of poor George! Liars and con men.But I dont see how Trayvon would imply a sexual motive to George. That would seem a bit stupid. Taryvon was high,and was he not insdie the private porperty of this gated community--which was gated for a reason:guys like HIM!! There is little/no doubt that Trayvon called George a f**. But I dont think he meant it in a sexual sense. NOTE:Ironic that black males engage in man-to-man sex vastly more than white. Go figure!
I think the (mis-) behavior of the media afterward is much more interesting. Not to mention comtemptible.
I don't get it. Where did the whole gay dimension come from? Zimmerman doesn't look gay.
Kylie said...
I bet Trayvon was just wandering around aimlessly and got riled when he saw Zimmerman approaching him. It doesn't take much at all for a black male to feel "dissed". And when such a male sees that the person supposedly "dissing" him is unlikely to be able to fight back, then any chance of a civil encounter is virtually nil.
Based on my observations of tetchy black males, I'd say criminal intent, drug use and homophobia were peripheral issues if indeed they were factors at all.
Yeah, I go with the "dissed" angle on this one....."Yo man, what's this punk ass faggot doing on my ass".
Not anti gay, anti being "dissed" as a black male in America.
Here's a photo of the child like Trayvon at the 7-11 before he was "dissed and dismissed" by Jorge Zimmeria.
Not exactly the photo the Prestige Press wants of their poster boy Martyr to White Racism.
Was Martin-Zimmerman fistfight a gay bashing?
Hmmm...perhaps. So presumably the million or whatever annual violent attacks by blacks on whites is a strong sign that whites tend to be gay and blacks tend to be homophobic, while the 20,000 such rapes are due to "mistaken gender identity"...
Here's the photo I posted. Don't know if the link will stay up but it deserves to be posted.
Reply to anon at 4:46 am:
There is no evidence Zimmerman cornered or detained Martin. Never has been. Nor would he have had any authority to do so. If my child was being 'followed' at night by a shifty looking 'Latino' man, I would advise him/her to leave the area. I wouldn't advise him to double back and confront said person. That is not prudent. Bear in mind this was not on an open street, but in a private gated community. Zimmerman lived there. Martin did not and was unknown to people there. His dad might have considered this. Told his son to stay home or that the gates close at 07:00 pm. Or took his son with him to dinner.
Reply to Kylie said;
"It doesn't take much at all for a black male to feel "dissed"".
I think this is closest to the truth. Blacks tend to be an easily offended group, particularly males. Young ones especially. Maybe its some kind of projectionism.
What RKU said,
There's a war and only one side is fighting. Here, Lawrence Auster recalls some of the "random" white women stabbed or beaten to death by strange black men:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/022425.html
DYork,
Both times you posted the link, it goes to "Page cannot be found".
Not surprisingly.
"This is the best question white Zimmerman supporters never answer:
What do white people tell their white children to do when:
1. They are being followed by a car at night while walking home."
The white people I know would not permit their minor children to walk home at night.
"So, all you white people, what do you tell little TYLER, and BECKY to do if this happens to them?"
Oops, your agenda is showing.
Kylie said...
DYork,
Both times you posted the link, it goes to "Page cannot be found".
Not surprisingly.
OK, here's a video and the full multicamera surveillance video. Martin looks childlike, waifish really:
St. Martin of Florida.
"This is the best question white Zimmerman supporters never answer:
"What do white people tell their white children to do when:
1. They are being followed by a car at night while walking home.
So, all you white people, what do you tell little TYLER, and BECKY to do if this happens to them?"
I was not allowed to walk alone at night. I didn't allow my younger siblings to walk alone at night. No matter where a kid in my family happens to be, if it's dark outside and the kid needs a ride home, the adult would drive across the city, cut a date short and do whatever else is necessary to get the kid home safe.
If for some reason, my younger sibling were to be walking alone and followed by a shifty man, I'd advise the kid to run, get away and call 911. I'm certain that is what they would do.
OK, here's a video and the full multicamera surveillance video. Martin looks childlike, waifish really:
Lol, he looks like the perfect little No Limit gangsta wannabe.
Gosh, I cannot possibly imagine why anyone his right mind would dream of profiling this little angel.
MSM, burn in hell.
"Homosexual purposes"!?!
I read this unusual phrase and immediately registered the domain name interwebnet address in the coveted .xxx extension.
Full disclosure: I also own that other great wordsmith Mitt Romney's unusual phrase "severely conservative" in the new .ugh extension.
It seems that Africans, if you know what I mean, are not very tolerant
'OK, here's a video and the full multicamera surveillance video. Martin looks childlike, waifish really:'
Lol, he looks like the perfect little No Limit gangsta wannabe."
He looks more waifish than gangsta to me. I see he's doing that typical black thing of having to search through his pockets for enough cash to pay for his purchases but that hardly indicates violent or criminal intent.
"Gosh, I cannot possibly imagine why anyone his right mind would dream of profiling this little angel."
This is a typical liberal thought pattern. If it's not black, it must be white (or vice versa). No room for shades of gray.
Martin doesn't look like either a ganster wannabe or an angelic waif. He just looks like a typical black teen. FWIW, I see his body language in that clip as distinctly non-threatening. That doesn't mean that moments later he wasn't assaulting Zimmerman since I know blacks can go from mellow to murderous in nanoseconds; only that from this clip, he seems not to have any criminal or violent intent at the time.
It doesn't take much at all for a black male to feel "dissed".
Right. Once I saw a black guy jump a turnstile at a BART station. When he saw me alert the station agent, he put up his fists and said, "now you have to take your punishment." Luckily I had my pepper spray. He spit on me, and I called the cops. They caught up to him a block away. Turned out he had an outstanding fare-beating warrant. Then, as he's being handcuffed he says, "why you always picking on the black man?"
>So, all you white people, what do you tell little TYLER, and BECKY to do if this happens to them?<
We tell them (especially Becky) never to be out at night alone.
We tell Becky and Tyler not to get in the car, to scream bloody murder, and to sprint to the nearest house that seems inhabited, pound on the door, and demand that the police be called.
We don't tell them to follow the Latino back to his car and bash his skull in. Is that what you tell your kids to do?
What planet did you come from?
not a hacker said...
"'It doesn't take much at all for a black male to feel "dissed".'
Right. Once I saw a black guy jump a turnstile at a BART station. When he saw me alert the station agent, he put up his fists and said, 'now you have to take your punishment.'"
That's exactly the kind of thing I had in mind and it's a good example of why I think Martin probably had no intention of doing anything violent and/or criminal when he went to go get snacks.
Most whites don't seem able to understand that about blacks. I knew lots of black people who were genuinely nice and kind to me but then would turn around and hit me or steal from me. It wasn't about me, that was just the impulse they were acting on or the mood they were in. They treated other people, including other black people, the same way. Often, they'd apologize to me afterwards. And even fairly intelligent blacks with a halfway decent moral framework think nothing of committing petty crimes. They just have a whole different way of thinking about and responding to situations and this is what most whites don't get.
pat/Albertosauras: that community was not so "white", it is generally described as mixed-race. Trayvon was there staying with relatives.
When Steve initially raised this possibility it was as "the most awkward possible scenario", without any discussion of its probability. Now I think he's "privileging the hypothesis".
David said...
>
We tell Becky and Tyler not to get in the car, to scream bloody murder, and to sprint to the nearest house that seems inhabited, pound on the door, and demand that the police be called.-----------------------------------------
What if the shifty looking Latino grabs their arm and prevents them from running?
Or has them cornered?
In other words, when is it valid for a white child to physically resist (fight) being detained by a shifty looking unidentified LATINO male?
Never?
or
Always?
""privileging the hypothesis".
This hypothesis hasn't even occurred to 0.1% of all commentators on the topic. I would think the odds are against this hypothesis being true, but they definitely aren't 99.9% against.
The goals of the iSteve blog are not to offer a perfect replication of reality but to find things to say that are true, interesting, new, and funny, in roughly that order.
Reply to KYLIE SAID at 2:34 PM:
"..that was just the impulse they were acting on or the mood they were in."
I have had similar unpleasant experiences. I have seen blacks just flip out for no apparent reason. I think their own term for it is "going off on someone".
I had a black women I worked with once do it on me (she was useless as a worker too, but that is besides the point). I have never forgotten it. And I never will. She was like a wild animal. The next day she acted like all was well. I didn't say a single word to her, except when strictly required for over two weeks. Then I got an angry call one night from my (Pakistani by the way) manager wanting to know why I wasn't communicating with her! The weirdest thing was they seemed at a loss to understand my actions!
This is one (among many) reasons why I try to avoid blacks at all times and keep them strictlty at arms length. I do have a few Japanese friends, but in general I am happy to associate with my fellow whites and not to have my personal life "enriched" by black people.
"In other words, when is it valid for a white child to physically resist (fight) being detained by a shifty looking unidentified LATINO male?
Never?
or
Always?"
Typical. It just has to be either/or so it fits your agenda.
How about "sometimes"? But no, that would be too ambiguous and subtle for you.
I have had similar unpleasant experiences. I have seen blacks just flip out for no apparent reason. I think their own term for it is "going off on someone".
If they were white, they need more and more Ritalin until their heads explode. But they aren't, so they are just expressing their unique and vibrant culture under threat of white capitalist bourgeois kulak oppression.
Kylie, didn't you see what Trayvon was wearing over his mouth (inside the store, no less)? Gosh, if that's "typical" adolescent black male attire then I'm triply glad I live where I do.
"If they were white, they need more and more Ritalin until their heads explode. But they aren't, so they are just expressing their unique and vibrant culture under threat of white capitalist bourgeois kulak oppression."
Plenty of little kids in my school are on ritalin or some other highly potent stimulant. In fact, the dozes prescribed to them are much higher than what a suburban kid gets. I've had large male friends in college who were on lower dozes than some of my 7 year olds. This makes them into complete zombies until the very end of the school day when the drugs where off, at which point they start to act out a little bit. They get their next pill at day care. But these are usually the kids who went above and beyond in order to stand out when it comes to disruptive behavior which is a real achievement around here.
This is the best question white Zimmerman supporters never answer:
What do white people tell their white children to do when:
1. They are being followed by a car at night while walking home.
2. Inside the car is a shifty looking "latino" man.
3. They run and the shifty looking latino man chases them.
4. The shifty looking Latino man corners them and tells them they must wait with him until the police arrive.
So, all you white people, what do you tell little TYLER, and BECKY to do if this happens to them?
Take race out of it. Seriously though if some guy was following me when I was a teenager I would probably described them as creepy. I knew what a pedophile was back then. Zimmerman is the type of guy that shoots unarmed teenagers. Sounds like a creep to me.
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