NPR profiled their own impoverished unmarried white lady with three mulatto kids last week:
Take the case of 29-year-old Jennifer Stepp, who lives in Reading, Pa. Like 14 million other people in the U.S. who live in families headed by single mothers, she's poor. And she faces incredible odds.
Stepp has three children by three different fathers. The father of her eldest child, 10-year-old Isaiah, is serving 30 years in federal prison for armed robbery.
"He's met my son one time, when he was a baby. And he decided that he didn't want him," she says.
Stepp's middle child, 8-year-old Shyanne, usually sees her father every other weekend. But the father of her younger son is also in prison. Stepp says he's been behind bars for selling cocaine since she was pregnant. He has never met 1-year-old Makai.
"He writes letters back and forth, and he wants to be a part of his son's life," she says. "I'm just waiting for him to get out and get his life together."
Stepp says she was the victim of youthful optimism. She kept thinking that the next guy had to be better than the last, and that the relationships would last.
Now, that's all behind her, and she's wiser.
This provoked the following comment on NPR's website:
Big Ern (BigErn77) wrote:
If I am to pay to support these children, I also want a piece of the action from these broads, every now and then. I mean, I'm basically doing some husbandy duties, puttin' food on the table and all that, I correspondingly deserve a little of the 'ol husbandy benefits package, if you know what I mean.
Then again, since most of these 'women' are horribly disfigured by obesity, I take it all back - I want nothing to do with them.
Posts
169 comments:
"Now, that's all behind her, and she's wiser."
...and all it took was three kids, too. Who says that the Flynn Effect isn't real.
Syon
I know of yet another, except he has stayed around and cohabits. Neither has a HS degree though she works more often. He seems to be pretty dumb but is pleasant and good to her. Yes, she is more than 100 pounds overweight. It might be an example of fathers being less likely to abandon boys as he adores them and plays outside with them all the time in the summer.
"Then again, since most of these 'women' are horribly disfigured by obesity, I take it all back - I want nothing to do with them." - If they didn't have the state looking after them then they might have an additional incentive to take care of themselves.
I see, by the names she gave them, that she wants them to grow up "black". Let the blacks have them I say.
"Then again, since most of these 'women' are horribly disfigured by obesity, I take it all back - I want nothing to do with them." - If they didn't have the state looking after them then they might have an additional incentive to take care of themselves."
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, folks!
Well, if the Roissys and Whiskeys would take a second look at rotund white chicks, they wouldn't be so quick to run off with the colored guys.
who says all npr are fans are dweebs? well if you take "Big Erin/steve sailers pseudonym" into account apparently some are pathetic douches as well. You know, the misogynist leeches who leave anonymous hateful messages but still couldn't buy it from these morbidy obese and 3x more attractive then any woman they've ever had.
I didn't think too much of the idea of America becoming like Brazil, but now seems more plausible.
I didn't think too much of the idea of America becoming like Brazil, but now seems more plausible.
Don't feel too bad about this, because apparently the vast majority of people lack the ability to extrapolate from demographic trends, totally irrationally preferring to believe "nah, it could never happen here!" The funny thing in this case is that the link between present and future is so obvious. Brazil is an overwhelmingly mixed-Euro+mulatto country with a sizable amerind contribution and minor east asian component. America had all of those elements except the vastness of the mulatto population. Ongoing miscegenation with blacks and consequent reduction in northern European phenotypes was pretty much guaranteed to produce a "Brasil do norte." In fact, looking at the trends and the enormous resistance to changing them on the part of white americans one would have to conclude that a Brasil do norte was inevitable,so there should be no surprise at all that it's occurring.
"He writes letters back and forth, and he wants to be a part of his son's life," she says. "I'm just waiting for him to get out and get his life together."
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
What percentage of these men would even want the children if given the type of choices women have after conception (namely abortion and adoption)?
While reading Sunday's New York Times article about the struggling single white mother and her three mixed-race children in Ann Arbor, MI, yours truly assumed that the article was intended as "red meat" to satiate the triumphalist urges of our new meritocratic ruling class (i.e., so they could gloat at just how low middle class whites in flyoverland are sinking).
That, after all, was my reaction to the oh-so-similar article that the Times ran back in February detailing the similarly sad, poverty-stricken lives of single white mothers and their mixed-race offspring in Rust Belt Pennsylvania and Ohio.
But NPR's article about the fat, poverty-stricken single white mother and her three mixed-race offspring in Reading, PA, is clearly intended to persuade its readers that America's got a fever, and the only prescription is an ever-expanding welfare state. So I'm beginning to think that maybe that was the point of the NYT articles as well (although gloating over just how low middle class whites in flyoverland are sinking is always a plus!).
Remember, it's become something of a shibboleth in left-of-center circles that when Ronald Reagan criticized "welfare queens" back in the 1980s, it was actually "dog whistle" code for the real message: "Hey everybody, we're gonna bring back slavery and Jim Crow!"
As such, racist white voters were supposedly manipulated by Reagan and the RepubliKKKlansmen to oppose a large welfare state on the grounds that the payouts overwhelmingly benefited blacks. That's what Thomas Frank said was the matter with Kansas, after all!
According to Frank, those white trash flyoverland crackers are so racist that they vote against Democrats and a welfare state that would benefit them ... just to keep poor blacks from getting their just due from Uncle Sam too.
So this whole new wave of Prestige Media articles about struggling white single mothers in Rust Belt flyoverland hellholes is probably just an attempt to rebrand the "welfare queen" as a white woman, so that the racist crackers in Red State middle America will start to rethink their opposition to big government and the welfare state.
Well, that and to gloat over just how low middle class whites in flyoverland are sinking!
Stepp has three children by three different fathers.
I stopped reading right there.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-met-kass-0712-20120712,0,5987835.column
http://missxpose.com/2010/09/jesse-jackson-jr-and-wife-address-affair-allegations/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-teen-charged-with-murder-in-beating-of-man-on-far-north-side-20120714,0,7433798.story
Zimmerman a white hispanic but these not named as black teens
o/t - spot the missing elephant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18853966
so they could gloat at just how low middle class whites in flyoverland are sinking
Never underestimate the near-sexual thrill they get from that.
A year or two back, in the UK, a study showed that a very small subset of white boys had fallen - fractionally - behind a very small subset of black girls in educational achievement.
Cue an army of SWPL types pretending to be concerned while swooning in orgiastic ecstasy.
I think the NPR headline writer is also not a dweeb. The headline says Poor single moms need a "wide" safety net.
I have a campaign to fight single-motherhood. It is a three step plan:
First comes love,
Then comes marriage,
Then comes a baby in the baby carriage.
That BBC piece.
Note the library pics used to illustrate offenders:
This and then this.
Anyone who believes the media are pursuing an anti-white agenda is, of course, a conspiracy theory nutjob.
Regarding the "youths" who killed the 63 year old Mexican migrant on the far North Side of Chicago during a game of "pick 'em out and knock 'em out," Anonymous (7/17/12 1:55 AM) said...
"Zimmerman a white hispanic but these not named as black teens"
The Mainstream Media settled on the "white Hispanic" tag for Zimmerman only after photos surfaced which showed that Zimmerman wasn't, in fact, a "white male," as he'd originally been described.
Remember, in the criminal justice system, Hispanic offenders are classified as "white." If a picture says a thousand words, a quick perusal of the mugshots of all the supposed white males on the DuPage County (Illinois) Most Wanted List ... well, it says a lot.
But the media knows that supposedly "white" criminals with names like Angel Gomez, Jesus Diaz and Armando de la Incarnación aren't really white guys. So they don't hype their violent crimes up. But when the media decided to jump in with both feet on the Zimmerman story, they were under the impression (based on Zimmerman's white sounding name) that, at long last, they'd finally harpooned Tom Wolfe's Great White Defendant.
Then they had to scramble to keep the "racist white male kills angelic prepubescent African American honor student and aspiring doctor" narrative up after it became clear to everyone with any intelligence that Zimmerman was Hispanic.
As for the Chicago story, first, it goes without saying, but it's really sad. The media didn't need to identify the assailants as "black" though, since they showed mugshots of the non-juvenile arrestees.
On a side note, it's interesting that they arrested the 16 year old assailant in Southwest suburban Orland Hills. The Orland area has traditionally been home to relatively affluent (though South Side earthy and tough) whites who escaped the Chicago's South Side and fled to the suburbs. As such, Chicago area liberals hate white people in the Orland Park/Tinley Park area about as much as some say that nice white ladies HATE HATE HATE boring white beta males (they don't, however, hate the many, many Palestinian Muslims who also make that area their home).
So it's kind of interesting that when Section 8 landed on Orland Hills, transplants from some of the South Side's worst housing projects ended up there. As a result, the historically lilly-white Orland Square Mall has quickly become a magnet for some pretty undesirable characters.
Maybe white lesbian can teach their straight sisters the importance of marriage. They seem to grasp its significance.
Big ern has a point. In fact, he didn't go far enough in his comments- he's actually doing MORE to support the kids than the fathers are doing. In addition, he's paying for the room and board of the fathers! And yet all papa can do in gratitude is hate whitey.
"Ongoing miscegenation with blacks and consequent reduction in northern European phenotypes was pretty much guaranteed to produce a "Brasil do norte.""
- Well, that's great, I guess we can look forward to having a Divisão Anti-Seqüestros in every major city...
That's interesting. "Drunk idiot" seems to have a writing style that is VERY coincidentally like Whiskey's
"... that nice white ladies HATE HATE HATE boring white beta males..."
not to mention the link btwn the names. Hmmm- Nothing to notice there.
Drunk Idiot --
Excellent analysis. We don't have to choose between scorning flyover country whites and subsidizing Fishtown behavior with other people's money. It's a floor wax and a dessert topping.
> [These prestige media pieces are] clearly intended to persuade its readers that America's got a fever, and the only prescription is an ever-expanding welfare state.
Always fun to read the reporter's carefully-crafted sentences.
Stepp has three children by three different fathers. It just... happened! And then again! And then... again!
Stepp says she was the victim of youthful optimism. Now, that's all behind her, and she's wiser.
"
I have a campaign to fight single-motherhood. It is a three step plan:
First comes love,
Then comes marriage,
Then comes a baby in the baby carriage."
I think they know those 3 already. The problem is that their motherhood has a 6 step plan:
First comes love,
Then comes marriage,
Then comes a baby in the baby carriage.
Then comes beatings,
Then comes crack,
Then comes the PoPo to snatch your a**.
Practically speaking, interracial marriages are a good thing, actually. Deporting the African-Americans is not going to happen, segregation either. So what would you prefer, a population with an average IQ of 85 or a mulatto population with an IQ somewhere between the black and white averages?
And have underwhelming genes infiltrate into the upper classes over the next thousands of years?
No thanks.
That's right, I take the long term view: I'm looking millenia into the future
Jason Whitlock @WhitlockJason
Bill O'Reilly & guest discuss fatherlessness among blacks (a real problem) http://bit.ly/Q0Ot00 Never bring up drug war/mass incarceration.
Whitlock is a black sports writer...
I just visited my small hometown in the upper midwest for the 4th of July and was surprised three white single moms and their mulatto kids. This was similar to an experience I had a few years ago while driving back roads across the northern U.S. I was amazed that I saw mulatto kids in just about every small town we stopped in...
Anyone have any idea what percentage of white women are having mixed race children? It's got to be at least 10%, probably closer to 15%. White fertility is always listed at 1.8 or so. True white fertility has got to be closer to 1.6, not too much higher than the dismal fertility of whites in Eastern Europe.
The mother of Jesse Jackson's love child has complained that he hasn't been sending her the child support he was supposed to. So I guess this tendency to vamoose and ditch the kids is a cultural trait not limited to the low income sector.
I just enjoyed the "Kingpin" reference in the commenter's name. "These kids nearly got munsoned."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7HcqsBOdg
A year or two back, in the UK, a study showed that a very small subset of white boys had fallen - fractionally - behind a very small subset of black girls in educational achievement.
Cue an army of SWPL types pretending to be concerned while swooning in orgiastic ecstasy.
That just shows how ignorant of statistics the SWPLs are. Given that the curves are pretty much Gaussian and the difference in the averages is only approximately one SD, there is bound to be overlap between the upper end of one and the lower end of the other.
"He writes letters back and forth, and he wants to be a part of his son's life," she says. "I'm just waiting for him to get out and get his life together."
Stepp says she was the victim of youthful optimism. She kept thinking that the next guy had to be better than the last, and that the relationships would last.
Now, that's all behind her, and she's wiser.
And after baby-daddy #3 gets out of jail and she notices he doesn't actually get his life together, she'll be even wiser!
Anonymous:"Anyone have any idea what percentage of white women are having mixed race children? It's got to be at least 10%, probably closer to 15%"
"analysis of the 2005 Natality Detail File [1]:
Of 2280259 children born to Non-Hispanic White women, the racial breakdown of fathers is roughly:
89.23% Non-Hispanic White
5.46% Hispanic
3.18% Non-Hispanic Black
2.13% Non-Hispanic Other Races15%."
Syon
Via WIKIPEDIA, some interesting data on Black-White marriages:
"In the United States there has been an historical disparity between Black female and Black male exogamy ratios: according to the United States Census Bureau, there were 354,000 White female/Black male and 196,000 Black female/White male marriages in March 2009, representing a ratio of 181:100.[22] This traditional disparity has seen a rapid decline over the last two decades, constrasted with its peak in 1981 when the ratio was still 371:100.[23] In 2007, 4.6% of all married Blacks in the United States were wed to a White partner, and 0.4% of all Whites were married to a Black partner.[24]
The role of gender in interracial divorce dynamics, found in social studies by Jenifer L. Bratter and Rosalind B. King, was highlighted when examining marital instability among Black/White unions.[9] White wife/Black husband marriages show twice the divorce rate of White wife/White husband couples by the 10th year of marriage,[9] whereas Black wife/White husband marriages are 44% less likely to end in divorce than White wife/White husband couples over the same period.[9]"
Interesting to see that Black wife/White husband marriages are more stable than White wife/Black husband.
Syon
Anyone have any data on the socio-economic status of White woman/Black man marriages vs White man/Black woman?Based on my own observations, I would say that White husband/Black wife marriages tend to be distinctly higher in social class metrics than are White wife/Black husband couples.
I've also noticed that Black women who date/marry White men tend to be quite White in affect (i.e., they speak with "White" accents, listen to "White" genres of music like heavy metal, watch "White" television shows and movies, etc).Indeed, one of my sister's closest friends is a Black girl who exclusively dates White men, with Matthew McConaughey lookalikes as her decided preference. She hates rap music , "Black" television shows, etc.This stands in contrast to White women who date Black, as their cultural preferences tend to skew Black.
Syon
"...and all it took was three kids, too. Who says that the Flynn Effect isn't real"
ROTFLMAO...only at iSteve.
"And have underwhelming genes infiltrate into the upper classes over the next thousands of years?
No thanks.
That's right, I take the long term view: I'm looking millenia into the future"
You may be thinking about this all wrong. Consider that Ashkenazi Jews have a smidgen of Sub-Saharan African ancestry and it hasn't hurt their intellect at all, to say the least. For all we know, their African ancestry might have given them an edge over Europeans (Africans have higher frequencies of some IQ-enhancing alleles than Eurasians):
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/11/dtnbp1-gene-and.html
Also consider that the neolithic in west Eurasia was started by descendants of the very mixed race Natufians.
- Well, that's great, I guess we can look forward to having a Divisão Anti-Seqüestros in every major city...
Hey, don't blame me. You try making the point to your average white fwit. Go on. Or just look at the sort of responses you get here. A look of disgust creeps over their faces, "Oh, what?!? Treat white racial erasure like a serious issue? Not I, NEVER!!!" Well, lol, if you're not going to treat it like a serious issue then face the inevitable consequences. The logic is pretty elementary.
You may be thinking about this all wrong. Consider that Ashkenazi Jews have a smidgen of Sub-Saharan African ancestry and it hasn't hurt their intellect at all, to say the least.
A "smidgeon," rofl. Like today's numbers would lead to a mere smidgeon. Some will stop at nothing, be deterred by nothing, nothing whatsoever to con people into mixing with blacks. You really have to see it in action to believe it. Extraordinary.
Whoa, Sowell *went* there...gave an opening for Mike Gallagher to rant about it on his morning talk show.
Hope it gets beyond that.
white women just can't get enouhg Black men!
Looks like white boys just plain suck!
It's really a tragic case of misperception. White boys may appear to suck but in truth they don't. While blacks may appear to be desirable but in truth they... I don't even need to say it.
I have a prole friend whose daughter joined the Job Corps, did well (?) and was transferred back to Minneapolis to help teach, and promptly got knocked up by some black dude. Came back here with a mulatto male infant. No problem, everyone quite accepting..of course..except that the boy was a tyrant right out of the crib, vicious and uncontrollable, especially by the hapless and stupid mother.
I can't wait to see how this turns out. No wait, yes I can.
"Zimmerman a white hispanic but these not named as black teens"
Ah, don't forget, that in spite of having the mug shot of GZ from a few years previous, the main stream brown nosers thought GZ was either Jewish or a Nazi on the basis of his last name.
It took them several weeks to acknowledge that GZ was half white, half Peruvian. Oh yeah, it took a while even after that to acknowledge "Peruvian" was Hispanic, but ....you know, not the "right" kind Hispanic.
Journalism now is equated in the minds of a growing number of Americans with those who stage cock fights and dog fights.
At the very least, they're flim flam artists.
Crump: That's interesting. "Drunk idiot" seems to have a writing style that is VERY coincidentally like Whiskey's
"... that nice white ladies HATE HATE HATE boring white beta males..."
Nope. "HATE HATE HATE" has become a mini-meme on sites that Whiskey frequents. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and a lot of people have picked it up.
Carol: Whoa, Sowell *went* there...gave an opening for Mike Gallagher to rant about it on his morning talk show. Hope it gets beyond that.
Well that's good, but don't expect a breakout of news. Also, notice how more and more news sites (like the sites for local TV news shows) are moving to Facebook for comments, essentially getting away from anonymous commenting? Otherwise, the local story about a "youth" flash mob is filled to the brim with comments about the unmentioned race. When they move to Facebook, that simmers down a lot (but not entirely).
I expect if we get Obama II we're going to see some serious crack-down on internet CrimeThink.
Dear Mr. Sailer !
I want to inquire if your e-mail is
steveslr@aol.com
and your US Mail address is the same as it was for the last couple of years.
The reason for me to inquire about it is that I have sent you a letter (about 10 days ago) and e-mail (about 4 days ago) on those addresses, and has got no response as of 2012 / 07 / 17.
Your truly, Florida resident.
"Apologists for blacks (including iSteve's very own tiresomely ubiquitous race man) like to point out that the pathologies rampant in the black community can be found in the white community."
Let me at that guy, I'd love to STRAIGHTEN HIM OUT!
"The fact that I so often see white older women with mixed-race children who are obviously their grandkids tells me that the stigmas of acting black are now absent among low-class whites. Why strive, work and sacrifice to be respectable (white) when you can just do as you please with little thought for your future or the future of your offspring (act black) and your actions are "cool" and government-subsidized?
"Blacks are dragging down at-risk, low-class whites."
They don't need to be dragged down, that's why they're "low-class."
"without ever acknowledging that whites now do it, too, in such large numbers because they now feel free to indulge openly in black pathologies."
LOL, is everything white people do wrong, blackie's fault?
What happen at Mangan's? How does one get an invite?
"Some will stop at nothing, be deterred by nothing, nothing whatsoever to con people into mixing with blacks."
I'm definitely not among that "some." Although I suspect that "race mixing" has played an important role in human evolution, I certainly don't suggest it to anyone as a course of action.
Ernie has an interesting thought. I think liberals really ought to require unwed mothers to try to get jobs as prostitutes before they go on government aid. After all, if they're giving it away for free, why not make them require payment? I think I can respect someone who is a prostitute to support her children more than someone who acts like a prostitute but expects non-customers to pay.
Ernie has an interesting thought. I think liberals really ought to require unwed mothers to try to get jobs as prostitutes before they go on government aid. After all, if they're giving it away for free, why not make them require payment? I think I can respect someone who is a prostitute to support her children more than someone who acts like a prostitute but expects non-customers to pay.
A lot of talk about the kind of white woman that go with black guys, but what about the black guys?
The black guys with the most choices (pro athletes) largely marry black women, but it seems like the loser black guys are desperate for white women. They will shack up with the ugliest, least wanted white women. You see it most in London in the Yardie culture. The unemployed Jamaican guys all end up with bottom pool white women.
As Sowell points out, the disparities in IQ and success are cultural and the success of blacks changes dramatically with culture. Note that the Tuohys managed to raise Michael Oher's IQ from 80 to between 100 and 110 after taking him into their home and changing his culture. That's the entire "1 standard deviation" disparity that those who believe that race strongly influences IQ that was erased, later in life, just by changing Michael Oher's home life. How many more black kids would have IQs 20-30 points higher if they had a home life that encouraged and supported it?
Just like people go to casinos with the almost certain prospect of losing money for the sheer thrill of the game, white women go off with Negroes for the thrill of jungle fevered massive orgasm. It’s not rational, but why should this surprise conservatives and rightists who, contrary to liberals and leftists, have always insisted that human nature is dark and irrational? So, it doesn’t matter if black males make poor long-term prospects. People, especially the less intelligent, go for short-term thrills. Indeed, their obesity speaks volumes about them. Though they consciously know that eating too much junk will make them fat, they cannot resist the urge to splurge on surgary/fatty stuff.
Also, American conservatism, due to its essentially Christian emphasis, is defenseless against race mixing since Christianity is supposed to be about universalism and preaches the equality of souls of all people. The spiritual universality of Christianity offers no defense against biological sensuality of jungle-fever.
Also, American conservatism tends to be bland, and so when American conservative girls come of age, they want some excitement, and that excitement comes in the form of interracist rap music, movies, and TV shows. And there is high school sports where white girls wanna be cheerleaders but many of the top athletes happen to be black.
Wasn't me, obviously someone quoting me, on commenting on NPR. Since I'm never on NPR sites anyway.
As for Brazil, no America won't be like that. Unlike Brazil, the Black/Hispanic underclass won't be satisfied with living in a favela, any more than Spaniards, Italians, Greeks, Portugese, and Irish are satisfied with austerity measures. Both want the CASH NOW! Dambit! Pay up or "else."
Fights over money are brutal. Particularly in this environment. It is easy for White women to get knocked up by Black guys, who are more tolerant of weight gain than even Beta White males (I see plenty of in-shape White guys with land whales btw). Their kids are instantly eligible for AA, other goodies only available to Black guys. Prison and such is a PLUS not a minus (Heartiste/Roissy commenter noted "It used to be you had to lie about which College you graduated from, or that you went there, now its lying about having been in prison to impress women.")
However, the stigma associated around "not being successful" and the increasing costs of not moving up the income ladder by any means necessary will trigger an all out spoils war among beta White guys in the middle and upper working class to move upwards to avoid the "diversity wave" which is hostile to them. Not only are the Black/Hispanic women majority unattractive in weight/appearance issues, the few that are slender and cute are off-limits in nearly all situations. Enforced by physical violence if needed, and requiring massive amounts of "thug game" not seen among beta males. Who are perfectly capable of horrific violence but not in a thug manner.
In short, a hard to the death fight over MONEY by White guys desperate to move up to avoid living/dealing with the non-White underclass is already underway. With Italian attitudes towards the State and taxation. With the non-White underclass demanding ever more money to feed its desires. A Eurozone like collapse is in the offing.
Check out the slideshow with the NY Slimes story. Big Ern will clearly recoil from any claim to husbandlike benefits, given that the girl in question appears to have been eaten by a wolf and then shit down a cliff.
"Now, that's all behind her, and she's wiser."
So about 3 more years until she has a fourth kid?
What they're too dumb to realize is that, from the sensible white POV, that's a point in favor of separatism. Low-class whites are an at-risk population that already has all the problems so common among blacks. Lauding black culture and black pathologies as the MSM and elites have done for years now only exacerbates the situation.
Yeah, David Starkey agrees.
White ho's watch stuff like SAVE THE LAST DANCE.
"This comment has been removed because it did not meet the NPR.org Community Discussion Rules."
Thanks for preserving it, Steve!
There's was an article in the Daily Mail about someone who did something really similar. This lass got pregnant at 12, and ten years later says she has no regrets:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2171070/Britains-youngest-mother-Amy-Crowhurst-insists-getting-pregnant-aged-12-smartest-thing-I-did.html
Big Ern's comments have been removed. Liberals love censorship under the guise of 'community standards.'
He wasn't a spammer and he didn't curse.
"He writes letters back and forth, and he wants to be a part of his son's life," she says. "I'm just waiting for him to get out and get his life together."
Stepp says she was the victim of youthful optimism. She kept thinking that the next guy had to be better than the last, and that the relationships would last.
Now, that's all behind her, and she's wiser.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Wiser than what? A box of hammers?
OT but is anyone else having difficulty accessing Mangan's blog? I'm getting an "invitation only" message. First, OneSTDV now Mangan's. Anyone know what's happening?
Carol, thanks for the link to Sowell's piece. Good for him.
- A Solid Citizen
Sowell *went* there
Yeah, but he says media omit mention of race because it's "an election year." We all know it goes deeper than that.
"He's met my son one time, when he was a baby. And he decided that he didn't want him," she says.
What the hell difference does it make if a guy doing 30 years wants his son or not? He can't support the kid or develop a relationship with him.
They used to sterilize idiots like this woman.
In the post below, Steve says white women should avoid black men because they:
heedlessly impregnate;
won't marry;
won't support.
But I'll tell you something else: every white woman who works at NPR knows a white woman who was beat up by the black guy she dated. Blacks can't help this. It's either the irrational hatred at the wider "system" these women come to represent, or the SWPL self-esteem becomes grating. Whichever, the punch is inevitably delivered.
who says all npr are fans are dweebs? well if you take "Big Erin/steve sailers pseudonym" into account apparently some are pathetic douches as well. You know, the misogynist leeches who leave anonymous hateful messages but still couldn't buy it from these morbidy obese and 3x more attractive then any woman they've ever had.
As opposed to the winners who scour the Earth for said douchebags to excoriate them.
It's normal to object to someone wasting the money he coerces from you in the name of the common good, and demand it be spent wisely.
Also, please look up the word, "leech," I don't think it means what you think it means.
welfare state is good good for miscegenation. we may need a welfare state in an age of automation. too bad we have to support women like this in the process. the slaves should've been sent back to africa in the 1860's.
is she the woman in the picture. the cross walk lady? if so she's a butter head.
drunk idiot i think is onto something.
Off-topic, but I remember you commenting that Tim Burton clearly doesn't like working with actors that he doesn't already know very well. Today I read that he was reluctant to cast Christopher Walken in "Batman Returns" because he was afraid of him!
BigErn for president!
American conservative Matzo fever is the truly irrational phenomenon of American politics.
Black guys get the white bitch and the white guys just bitch.
I can't wait for cloning. We won't have to rely on all this mothering shit. We can just make a million clones of Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery.
C'mon, you more sophisticated iSteve commenters!
Help Carol, Campion and me out with the Mangan/One StDv access problem.
Is it simply Goog doing more evil?
Mark Twain was for giving jail time to any man who deflowered a virgin before marriage. He wrote an essay on it. I think it was called There Aught to Be A Law Against That. I am not positive on the name.
It's harder to shame people for having kids out of wedlock because everybody is engaging in premarital sex now. Some are just lucky to not be pregnant or more diligent in contraceptive use. We can't forget abortion too.
The acceptance of divorce and remarriage has lowered morals because if people see their parents divorced and remarried, which used to be a grave sin that would send you to hell, how can they be criticized for living together before marriage.
In the past there was a large segment of society that waited until marriage or at least until they knew they were getting married. It was easier to look down on women who got pregnant out of wedlock.
You may be thinking about this all wrong. Consider that Ashkenazi Jews have a smidgen of Sub-Saharan African ancestry and it hasn't hurt their intellect at all, to say the least. For all we know, their African ancestry might have given them an edge over Europeans (Africans have higher frequencies of some IQ-enhancing alleles than Eurasians):
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/11/dtnbp1-gene-and.html
Also consider that the neolithic in west Eurasia was started by descendants of the very mixed race Natufians.
When I said thousands of years, that was but cute affectation. I see it has put people on the wrong timescale.
The reality is that, barring extreme evolution, or perfect genetic engineering, the intermixing will pull the population down into perpetual mediocrity.
Given tens of thousands of years, or thousands of years with extreme selective pressures, any population will undergo change, maybe for the better. But I would start with a quality base, rather than a degraded one.
"They don't need to be dragged down, that's why they're 'low-class.'"
I realize standard English probably isn't your first language so I don't expect you to get that "low" does not mean "lower" or "lowest", that is, that's a question not of type but of degree.
"LOL, is everything white people do wrong, blackie's fault?"
Of course not, which is why I didn't make that claim.
But it's demonstrably true by several objective standards that in the years following greater integration of blacks into American society, the poor decisions and behaviors that afflict every race but are especially prevalent among blacks (e.g., illegitimacy, school drop-out rates) have made inroads into the white lower classes. Integration has benefited blacks at the expense of whites. Certainly that's not the fault of blacks, who are so seldom the agents of their own destinies, much less anyone else's. I blame white elites for that.
""Apologists for blacks (including iSteve's very own tiresomely ubiquitous race man) like to point out that the pathologies rampant in the black community can be found in the white community."
Let me at that guy, I'd love to STRAIGHTEN HIM OUT!"
I have the technology. And the will to use it.
OK, so it's only a Pez dispenser. But don't ever say you weren't warned.
You may be thinking about this all wrong. Consider that Ashkenazi Jews have a smidgen of Sub-Saharan African ancestry and it hasn't hurt their intellect at all, to say the least. For all we know, their African ancestry might have given them an edge over Europeans (Africans have higher frequencies of some IQ-enhancing alleles than Eurasians):
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/11/dtnbp1-gene-and.html
I'm sure the Ashkenazim will acknowledge they could be improved upon. And from the chart, Africans also have higher frequences of many IQ decreasing alleles, so hardly desirable. But let us charitably grant that natural variation and sorting has worked its process. What could have happened if the deleterious alleles have been removed from most of the Ashkenazim?
They must have been removed over many generations, or through extreme selection. How many centuries and thousands of years. How many trials, for the poor lesser folk!
Why go through all this trouble? Could the Ashkenazim have not benefited more from intermixing with a high iq population instead?
Also consider that the neolithic in west Eurasia was started by descendants of the very mixed race Natufians.
Consider that we are also vastly more capable (and better looking) than they were. Care to have your descendants reevolve all that again, taking tens of thousands of years?
What if they don't?
"Stepp says she was the victim of youthful optimism."
Actually she was the victim of her own incredible stupidity.
Anonymous:"The black guys with the most choices (pro athletes) largely marry black women, but it seems like the loser black guys are desperate for white women."
Incorrect. Black pro-athletes marry mixed-race women;the more White ancestry, the better.
Syon
Apologists for blacks (including iSteve's very own tiresomely ubiquitous race man) like to point out that the pathologies rampant in the black community can be found in the white community.
Well, it's true.
What matters more is proportion - how prevalent are these pathologies in various racial communities.
"Anyone have any idea what percentage of white women are having mixed race children? It's got to be at least 10%, probably closer to 15%. White fertility is always listed at 1.8 or so. True white fertility has got to be closer to 1.6, not too much higher than the dismal fertility of whites in Eastern Europe."
Don't be ridiculous. It's under 2%, if that many. I have noticed a lot of people on sites like this--very race conscious--seem to be in such wide-eyed dismay and horror that they exaggerate. It's like the kid looking at a carnival, seeing thousands of different sights, and only remembering the bearded lady.
How in god's name could you possibly think 10-15% of white women are dropping little half-sub-Saharan Africans? That race only constitutes 15% of the whole population, and the vast majority of them are too off-limits to even think about being around, in a personal way, much less breeding with. Get a grip.
It can't be repeated to often: most people find mates (with any staying power) who are within 5 -- that's FIVE -- IQ points of their own IQ. That alone dismisses blacks from the marriage/partnership/breeding pool for the vast majority of whites. I can't tell you how many dweeby liberals make a point of acting like they'd just as leave marry with blacks as anyone else, but virtually never do.
It took them several weeks to acknowledge that GZ was half white, half Peruvian. Oh yeah, it took a while even after that to acknowledge "Peruvian" was Hispanic, but ....you know, not the "right" kind Hispanic.
Pay attention. The Peruvian half is 1/4 Black. His mother had a black grandfather.
These women are all well below the white average IQ. Mulattoes in the U.S also have a tendency to self-identify as black. If these white women hadn't mated with black men with similar IQs, they would have with white men with similar IQs."
How similar? Again, the average black IQ is 82-85, with a narrow curve. 90% of all blacks are under 100 IQ. Very few whites, unless they are retarded, have IQs under 85. There's quite a difference between 85 and 95, but even more than that is the genetic "baggage' behind what manifests. Even a 95IQ has more ancestors higher on the scale than a black with the same IQ. When you are discussing heredity, you are never talking about one generation. And this is what drives the anti-HBDers crazy. They just can't handle the weight of the past from which there is no escape.
Note that the Tuohys managed to raise Michael Oher's IQ from 80 to between 100 and 110 after taking him into their home and changing his culture.
Objection: facts not in evidence.
Sustained.
How in god's name could you possibly think 10-15% of white women are dropping little half-sub-Saharan Africans?
He doesn't think that. He thinks that 10-15% of babies born to White women have fathers are not White. But there are places where 10% more of babies born to White women have Black fathers. I recall there were some places in Maryland and in or around the Golden Triangle in Texas.
C'mon, you more sophisticated iSteve commenters!
Help Carol, Campion and me out with the Mangan/One StDv access problem.
Is it simply Goog doing more evil?
I asked pretty much that same question in the comments section of a non-political, non-HBD blog of Mangan's, to which he answered that he wasn't having any problem with blogspot, and that he wouldn't be blogging there any longer. He gave no reasons for the demise of his outstanding blog, not that any were due.
And that, as they say, is that. Mangan will be sorely missed.
Steve,
If you are going to write about black men and white women, you should do a post concerning the sex scandal at Lackland Air Force Base.
As far as the pictures available in the media, the black drill sergeants felt free to exploit the trainees.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/opening-statements-delayed-in-court-martial-of-air-force-sergeant-in-texas-base-sex-scandal/2012/07/16/gJQA80UgpW_story.html
"Incorrect. Black pro-athletes marry mixed-race women;the more White ancestry, the better."
In other words, they marry blacks, just as the poster wrote.
How many more black kids would have IQs 20-30 points higher if they had a home life that encouraged and supported it?
Very few.
You might get a couple of points with better nutrition, but vitamins and calories aren't really an issue in America--look at the residents of a certain zip code in Newport News. Maybe you get another 5 points with better inputs.
And all that talk leads to is just the lawsuits 50 years from now when the Black Lost Generation sues for being forcibly taken from their biological familes to be raised by SWPLs. Sandra Bullock better start funding the warchest now. The liability will probably run the other way as well, when women who've had their teeth knocked out of their jaws by their pseudo-children sue the foster agencies.
"Practically speaking, interracial marriages are a good thing, actually. Deporting the African-Americans is not going to happen, segregation either. So what would you prefer, a population with an average IQ of 85 or a mulatto population with an IQ somewhere between the black and white averages?"
- I've thought about this issue, and interestingly the best resolution is probably the one least seen. How about the 'Scots-Irish' show us the way? After all, they make it a little known secret they have the world's highest IQ. Their contribution would make the greatest good for our African American brethren. Why have white:black hybrids with middling 90s IQs when we could have mulattos with a full 100 IQ on average that can compete with the average whitey?
No more need for affirmative action. No more excuses.
After all, the 'Scots-Irish' talk a good talk about liberal ideas, and aside from blacks, were probably the ethny that supported ultra-liberal Obama the most. Yet they are secluded away, never having to deal with the real consequences of most of the utopian fantasy. Why not 'put their money where their mouth is' and get some skin in the game?
"
"Blacks are dragging down at-risk, low-class whites."
They don't need to be dragged down, that's why they're "low-class.""
They may not need to be dragged down, but its clear that they are being pulled much lower than they once were. There is a huge difference in the delinquency between a lower class white English lad of Derbyshire's youth and one of the chavs of today.
How in god's name could you possibly think 10-15% of white women are dropping little half-sub-Saharan Africans? That race only constitutes 15% of the whole population, and the vast majority of them are too off-limits to even think about being around, in a personal way, much less breeding with. Get a grip.
Right. On this very thread, Syon put the stats up.
"analysis of the 2005 Natality Detail File [1]:
Of 2280259 children born to Non-Hispanic White women, the racial breakdown of fathers is roughly:
89.23% Non-Hispanic White
5.46% Hispanic
3.18% Non-Hispanic Black
2.13% Non-Hispanic Other Races (I guess Asians, American Indians, and mixed-race people. From personal observation, it's mostly mixed-race men who are already half-white, like the Hispanics are.)
People are obsessed with the 3.18% of births by black guys, when Hispanics are more common. The obvious difference is that white men also routinely have sex with Hispanic women (the ratio of WM/HF to WF/HM is basically 1:1, with a slight bias toward Hispanic men, simply because there are more of them around), so it doesn't matter as much to them personally.
How similar? Again, the average black IQ is 82-85, with a narrow curve. 90% of all blacks are under 100 IQ. Very few whites, unless they are retarded, have IQs under 85. There's quite a difference between 85 and 95, but even more than that is the genetic "baggage' behind what manifests. Even a 95IQ has more ancestors higher on the scale than a black with the same IQ.
We can probably surmise that since 1) the IQ gap between couples is usually no larger than 5 points, and 2) the average black IQ is 85, that the average IQ of white women who procreate with black men is about 90 or so. This seems quite reasonable compared to the overall white IQ of 100. And dcite's comment:
I can't tell you how many dweeby liberals make a point of acting like they'd just as leave marry with blacks as anyone else, but virtually never do.
...only bears this out. Naive young white liberal women keep pushing for leftist causes, but they all, when push comes to shove (unless they're bitter, fat, and/or lesbian), end up with a member of the hated white male patriarchy.
Miss three-kids-by-four-dads there wasn't likely to benefit from any advice. If she was, the useful advice would be "don't get pregnant till he's put a ring on it and held down a steady legal job and stuck around for a couple years." The race of the loser she got pregnant by is quite a bit less important than that.
And at that, there's no point heaping abuse on her (although I rather doubt she's spending a lot of time listening to NPR or reading news sites online), since she's sentenced herself and her kids to a much harder life than any decent person would wish on her or especially them.
ben:
Wait, you mean this whole thing was just another black on black shooting?
"Apologists for blacks (including iSteve's very own tiresomely ubiquitous race man) like to point out that the pathologies rampant in the black community can be found in the white community.
Well, it's true."
Of course it's true.
"What matters more is proportion - how prevalent are these pathologies in various racial communities."
Exactly. These pathologies have become far more prevalent in white communities in the last few decades, due, in large part, to the government push for racial integration and the MSM's acceptance of such pathologies in the black community.
It's easier to drift downward than to aspire upward, especially when the culture tells you the community that is even more dysfunctional than yours is "authentic", "cool", "keepin it real", etc.
Shame and stigmatization can be very useful in preserving societal norms. Unfortunately, the elites have narrowed their scope considerably and pretty much destroyed their effectiveness. Now shame and stigmatizing are used mainly when accusing whites of racism, intolerance, bigotry and hate against blacks.
Has anyone here noticed the uncanny resemblance between Steve and NAACP President Ben Jealous? Is it possible that Steve's recent postings about white women and mixed-race children reflect a subconscious suspicion that his own mother may have illegitimately spawned a half or quarter black half sibling? (joking. no offense. honestly)
Moving on...
Anonymous wrote:
"
I've also noticed that Black women who date/marry White men tend to be quite White in affect (i.e., they speak with "White" accents, listen to "White" genres of music like heavy metal, watch "White" television shows and movies, etc).Indeed, one of my sister's closest friends is a Black girl who exclusively dates White men, with Matthew McConaughey lookalikes as her decided preference. She hates rap music , "Black" television shows, etc.This stands in contrast to White women who date Black, as their cultural preferences tend to skew Black."
I've noticed the same thing. Most black women who date white guys tend to "act white". Not all of them like heavy metal and so forth, but virtually all of them appear to be articulate and attractive, though I disagree with whomever said that such women are almost exclusively mixed. It also appears that only black guys who "act white" can get hot white women. But in this case, it appears that speech and looks alone don't suffice. For a black guy to get a hot white woman, he really has to "act white" (i.e., listen to white music, dress white etc.)
Kylie wrote:
"Blacks are dragging down at-risk, low-class whites."
This is a common way in which white nationalists avoid addressing the needs of the white lower-class, from which most of them hail(but are embarrassed to admit). Blame the 'groids. Can you cite a study (from a journal, not a book)which suggests that black pathological behavior is being infused into the white working class? In America, the deepest divide among the races has traditionally been found among the underclasses. That such a long-held tradition could be broken simply by the popularization of rap music and a formal (rather than literal) abolition of segregation seems implausible. Again, a study would be appreciated. Don't respond with an anecdote about your most recent visit to wal-mart.
For those actually interested in the details of Michael Oher, from the book The Blind Side:
"At the age of sixteen, when he arrived at Briarcrest, Michael could still have been taught phonics. He wasn't, the psychologists surmised, because he had worked very hard to disguise his grotesque deficiencies from his teachers. 'He was not letting people at Briarcrest know what he could or couldn't do,' said Jessup. 'Only Michael knew that there was a big gap between where he was and where he was perceived to be.' Fearing that he wouldn't be given the chance to catch up on the sly--that he'd be outed as stupid--he was faking it, and hoping no one noticed. But he wasn't stupid. Far from it. 'He's great if there is any context at all,' said Jessup. 'He can figure it out. He just needs a basic literacy program to decode words."
"But that's not what most interested his intelligence testers. Michael Oher had been tested, and more than once, as a child. Those tests had pegged his IQ at 80. Now the two psycho0logical examiners established that his IQ was currently somewhere between 100 and 110--which is to say that he was no more or less innately intelligent than most of the kids in his class at Briarcrest. The mind described by the new IQ test was not recognizably the same mind that had been tested five years earlier. 'I compare it to photographs,' said Jessup. 'If you put Michael then side by side with Michael now, you would not be able to recognize these two people as the same.'"
"That wasn't supposed to happen: IQ was meant to be a given, like the size of one's feet. It wasn't as simple as that, of course, but Jessup had never seen such concrete evidence of the absurdity of treating intelligence as a fixed quantity. 'We speak of fluid and crystalized intelligence,' she said. 'Fluid is your ability to respond on the spot to a situation. Crystalized is what you've pick dupe along the way. The two are obviously related--how can you respond if you have no experience? When they tested Michael in the Memphis City Schools he was probably already deficient--both of those things had become compromised. He had so little experience. Then he had this rich drowning in experience that fed both of those.'"
"Neither she nor her partner had ever seen anything like it, and they'd both been administering these sorts of tests for twenty years. She knew the literature and so she knew the studies of the effects of environment and nurture on mental development tend to create two study groups, the haves and the have-nots. 'The have-nots learn whatever words they happen to hear on TV, the haves hear a million different words by the age of three,' said Jessup. 'But you only get to compare the two groups. You almost never see a case where the subject moves from one group to the other.' Those low IQ scores Michael generated as a child, they guessed, were caused by his encountering, inside the problems, a hole in his experience, and then simply giving up. Problems on the page, he'd come to assume, were problems beyond his ability to solve. 'What they [Briarcrest] taught Michael was not just reading and writing and math,' said Jessup. 'They taught him how to solve problems and how to learn. He stopped giving up.'"
(Continuing about Michael Oher...)
Yes, I realize that not every black child would necessarily rise to average or above average intelligence if they were adopted by the Tuohys and sent to Briarcrest, but how many black children are like Michael Oher and how much do they drag down the average IQ of blacks? And isn't it curious that Michael Oher's IQ went up by even more than the amount that proponents of race-based IQ differences claim is the black deficiency in IQ?
I suppose I should also point out that the indigenous American ancestors of Hispanics, who are similarly considered deficient by some proponents of race-based IQ, managed to build massive cities and develop the agricultural engineering required to support them. Take a good look at the archaeological sites in Mexico, Central America, and Peru.
Or maybe I should point out that the civilizations of the Greeks and Romans were not build by the Northern European Germans or Celts, who are considered the apex of European IQ by some advocates of race-based IQ, but by those swarthy Mediterranean types in Italy and Rome whose ancestors likely intermingled a bit with Africans and Middle Easterners while the Germans were still a bunch of barbarian rabble. (Roman kids once dressed up like Germans to shock their parents, much as white kids now dress like rappers to shock their parents.)
Their culture is what changes over time, not their genes. Look at the difference in tested IQ for Polish-American soldiers during WW1 and WW2 which, again, show the same sort of transformation (this time, as the average score of many people) that Michael Oher experienced as Polish-American immigrants assimilated into American society.
In short, the evidence shows that IQ doesn't correspond to race. It corresponds to culture. Change the culture and change the IQ and achievement level of the group. Please see Thomas Sowell's book "Race and Culture", which goes into quite a bit of detail on this subject.
jMy recollection of the 325 pound black kid from The Blind Side, Michael Oher, is that he scored a 96 IQ on the NFL draft combine's Wonderlic test coming out of college, which is fine.
Unlike the portrait of him in the movie, he was not a good high school student. His adoptive parents basically bought him a high school diploma and NCAA eligibility by hiring him a private tutor for 20 hours per week and enrolling him in courses with BYU's distance learning diploma mill. Michael Lewis implies that he didn't do all the work himself to graduate from high school, and it was still a very close run thing.
But it's still an inspiring story of sorts.
"Has anyone here noticed the uncanny resemblance between Steve and NAACP President Ben Jealous?"
I hadn't, but I would say Jealous does look more like me than he looks like, say, Jesse Jackson or Michael Jordan. Mostly, it's the goatee. White guys with goatees tend to seem like they all look alike. Thus, it always strikes me that Jealous looks like Mark Ruffalo or Vince Vaughn, if I picture those actors with goatees.
I haven't worn a goatee for the 2 or 3 years in which I've known of Jealous, so I hadn't noticed the Goatee Effect with regard to myself, but thanks for pointing it out.
Or maybe I should point out that the civilizations of the Greeks and Romans were not build by the Northern European Germans or Celts, who are considered the apex of European IQ by some advocates of race-based IQ, but by those swarthy Mediterranean types in Italy and Rome whose ancestors likely intermingled a bit with Africans and Middle Easterners while the Germans were still a bunch of barbarian rabble.
Not so fast. There's actually persuasive evidence that those civilizations contained a significant/majority northern european component when they arose and reached their apex, thereafter attracting newcomers and later declining (much as is happening to the US and Europe today).
But from a purely racial standpoint, is there really that much to worry about? Isn't this just interracial assortive mating? These women are all well below the white average IQ. Mulattoes in the U.S also have a tendency to self-identify as black. If these white women hadn't mated with black men with similar IQs, they would have with white men with similar IQs.
Yeah dude, why in the world would anyone possibly consider greater numbers of people who self-identify as black to be undesirable? Lol.
NOTA,
Miss three-kids-by-four-dads there wasn't likely to benefit from any advice. If she was, the useful advice would be "don't get pregnant till he's put a ring on it and held down a steady legal job and stuck around for a couple years." The race of the loser she got pregnant by is quite a bit less important than that.
Be honest, Nota, you don't want to consider "the race of the loser" important at all, do you? That's what it's about with you, I've noticed. Oh sure, the future that mixing portends is undesirable as hell but I'll be damned if I'm going to say anything about it -- I might be called racist, gulp (or, alternatively, found wanting myself, double gulp). You're an exemplar of the "better dead than rude" attitude.
http://www.historytoday.com/marisa-linton/robespierre-and-terror
In short, the evidence shows that IQ doesn't correspond to race. It corresponds to culture.
And the fact that culture is in no small part related to race means what? Or are you suggesting that culture just pops up out of the ground?
"IQ doesn't correspond to race. It corresponds to culture. Change the culture and change the IQ and achievement level of the group."
I guess that explains why low class white kids score higher on average on IQ tests than middle and upper class black kids. Or why black kids in Haiti score around the same as black kids in Zimbabwe. Or why in every multiracial society of whites, hispanics and blacks, you see whites > hispanics > blacks on IQ tests.
The culture thing is spin to explain away black failure, and one of the few shortcomings in Sowell's otherwise bright conservative analyses. He also claims that blacks culture is from mimicking poor Southern whites, when it is pretty clear that the modern black culture is a combination of the impact of welfare, mimicking Italians (but without the good sense to know that you don't just go around whacking everyone) and the effects of a low IQ. Culture follows IQ, not the other way around.
"'If you put Michael then side by side with Michael now, you would not be able to recognize these two people as the same.'"
That's the problem with anecdotes. They're just that, anecdotes. N=1.Furthermore, we're talking about a kid becoming an adult. They're more malleable.
How do we know this happens for the average person raised in a different environment? The reality take home from transracial adoption experiments is that it doesn't do much at all for IQ.
This is a common way in which white nationalists avoid addressing the needs of the white lower-class, from which most of them hail(but are embarrassed to admit
Really? Can you cite a study to back that up?
Sounds like more elitist snobbery to me.
"IQ doesn't correspond to race".
After all that's been documented some people totally ignore everything and just repeat the same old slogans. Being in denial means never having to accept reality.
This comment has been removed because it did not meet the NPR.org Community Discussion Rules.
NPR often carefully prunes comments AFTER closing commenting to make it look like more people support the NPR-view.
They usually leave a couple of vanilla dissent posts.
I recall a story glorifying race mixing for dumpy white women, and it had some pretty thought provoking pogient comments- nothing derogatory or inflammatory -they were all quietly deleted a few days after comments were closed
another commenter had his comments removed and replied "I love it. Suggesting that the welfare state encourages irresponsible personal behavior is grounds for censorship.
"
"They must have been removed over many generations, or through extreme selection. How many centuries and thousands of years. How many trials, for the poor lesser folk!"
Well, yeah, that's how evolution works. There are winners and losers. Though the losers don't necessarily suffer in the process; they just have fewer children who reproduce.
And you were the one who claimed to be thinking millennia ahead.
"Why go through all this trouble? Could the Ashkenazim have not benefited more from intermixing with a high iq population instead?"
Who said that they had to pick one or the other? They have also benefited by mixing with high IQ Europeans.
"Consider that we are also vastly more capable (and better looking) than they were. Care to have your descendants reevolve all that again, taking tens of thousands of years?
What if they don't?"
You're missing the point. The Neolithic Revolution was man's first real step towards Civilization proper, and it was pioneered by a predominantly Caucasian population that had (relatively) recently experienced gene flow from Africa. It's possible that this was mostly coincidental, but it's also possible that this admixture marked an important evolutionary event in the (pre)history of West Eurasians.
Read Hawks' writings on "adaptive introgression" and see how archaic hominid admixture in Africans may have played a role in all this. It's all highly speculative but very interesting.
To see who is right I searched for NBA player's girlfriends and NBA players wives in Google Images. It looks like black NBA players largely date/marry black women and light skinned black women aren't the norm.
I'm not interested in holding up white women as the best looking race like a lot of other posters around here (including Steve), but I am interested in the racial psychology behind interracial relationships and other race related subjects.
It seems to me that black men who have a lot of choices are into black women so that's evidence that black men at first instance prefer black women but obviously this preference completely reverses when lower quality black men are considered. Those black men seem to have a huge chip on their shoulder from losing at life and the only way they can feel like they have some power is to hang on for years with a white woman in the bottom quarter of desirability.
"I'm basically doing some husbandy duties, puttin' food on the table and all that,"
LOL what? The guy has never heard of male privilege, it's a shame that his cis-gendered male class dysfuntions's burden has to borne by female tax-payers as well, who mind you, have been valiantly fighting a war against their gender.
At the very least, he should recognize that it's they, and not him, who have got dibs on that flesh.
Goatee Effect makes white guys look alike?
Actually everyone who has read the original James Bond books by Ian Fleming already knew this. In Moonraker our ever observant Mr Bond is the only one who notices that every man involved in the British space program has a full beard and a shaved head. As I remember they were concealing the fact that they were all Nazis.
Of course in real life the Brits never had a space program and we never hid our debt to the Nazis.
In the final pages of the novel the evil genius (Blofeld?) explains that he had observed that if you grew a beard and shaved your head no one could recognize you.
The James Bond in the books was often more controversial and bizarre especially than the bland sleep walking Roger Moore of the films. For example in the novel Live and Let Die American blacks are depicted as all controlled by voodoo. Great insight Mr. Fleming!
Fleming also described American cooking unfavorably compared to British - French cooking too.
Fleming trys to paint his character Bond as knowledgeable and sophisticated. Alas Fleming was himself a very provincial and narrow Brit. The Bond in the books is a doofus who constantly carries on an internal monolog about the culture around him. A monolog in which he continuosly says stupid things.
The only lasting contribution of Fleming to world culture is the vodka martini (shaken not stirred). In the first Bond movie Dr. No the Smirnoff label is flashed in every other scene.
Albertosaurus
Goatee Effect?
Actually I have understood that since I read Ian Fleming's novel Moonraker.
James Bond - the super observant super spy - is the only one to notice that every man working on the the British Space Program has a full beard and a shaved head. The evil genius (Blofeld?) explains at the end of the story that he had noticed that men are hard to recognize if they shave their heads and grow a beard.
Albertosaurus
"Kylie wrote:
'Blacks are dragging down at-risk, low-class whites.'
This is a common way in which white nationalists avoid addressing the needs of the white lower-class, from which most of them hail(but are embarrassed to admit). Blame the 'groids."
Possibly true but irrelevant. You took my comment out of context. When asked, "LOL, is everything white people do wrong, blackie's fault?"", I replied, "
Of course not, which is why I didn't make that claim.
But it's demonstrably true by several objective standards that in the years following greater integration of blacks into American society, the poor decisions and behaviors that afflict every race but are especially prevalent among blacks (e.g., illegitimacy, school drop-out rates) have made inroads into the white lower classes. Integration has benefited blacks at the expense of whites. Certainly that's not the fault of blacks, who are so seldom the agents of their own destinies, much less anyone else's. I blame white elites for that."
Then you demand,"Can you cite a study (from a journal, not a book)which suggests that black pathological behavior is being infused into the white working class?"
Since that wasn't my assertion, I see no need to try to bolster it with a study that just might, if I'm really really lucky, meet your criteria. I said nothing about working-class whites, I specified low-class whites and I also said that these bad behaviors were present in all races but more prevalent in the black community.
If you think I'd bother rebutting your misrepresentation of what I said, then you really are as dumb as you seem to think I am.
This is a common way in which white nationalists avoid addressing the needs of the white lower-class, from which most of them hail(but are embarrassed to admit). Blame the 'groids. Can you cite a study (from a journal, not a book)which suggests that black pathological behavior is being infused into the white working class?
Can you cite a study showing that WNs commonly avoid addressing the needs of the White lower class (I'll leave whether that's actually avoiding its needs to the side for a moment)? Can you cite a study showing that most WNs hail from the lower class?
I mean, if we're being rigorous and all...
But from a purely racial standpoint, is there really that much to worry about? Isn't this just interracial assortive mating? These women are all well below the white average IQ. Mulattoes in the U.S also have a tendency to self-identify as black. If these white women hadn't mated with black men with similar IQs, they would have with white men with similar IQs.
Sounds like you've been well-insulated from the thing you're describing. Good for you. But if you hadn't, you'd know that the mulatto kids will be around all the White kids in the extended family. All the White kids will grow up thinking of mulattos as part of the family. There's no such thing as an isolated effect here.
I don't see the similarities in style between Drunk Idiot and Whiskey. Drunk Idiot writes like a normal SWPL type. Whiskey writes like a high-functioning autistic or otherwise impaired person.
Not that Whiskey's at all above sock-puppetry, mind you.
There's quite a difference between 85 and 95, but even more than that is the genetic "baggage' behind what manifests. Even a 95IQ has more ancestors higher on the scale than a black with the same IQ. When you are discussing heredity, you are never talking about one generation. And this is what drives the anti-HBDers crazy. They just can't handle the weight of the past from which there is no escape.
The phrase you're looking for is "regression toward the mean."
"Incorrect. Black pro-athletes marry mixed-race women;the more White ancestry, the better."
In other words, they marry blacks, just as the poster wrote.
Black improvement = breeding out.
Are you jealous of Jealous's g oatee?
though I disagree with whomever said that such women are almost exclusively mixed.
You're wrong. Most of these "black women" are in fact mulattas. That's not necessarily because of "racism" on part of American white men but the market allocating mates and smart American mulattas gravitating towards white men. Most full-blooded black American women, with a couple of exceptions, are disruptive, loud, feminist, aggressive, in support of AA and embracing their black NAACP brothers. All you dumb trolls encouraging to mate with the lovely dark-skinned African-American women and other such types should know that their children are more likely to self-identity as black since they are half-black, versus a 75% white child from a white mating with a mulatta who identify as European more. Preserve the race please.
this might interest you http://www.brownpundits.com/2012/01/21/african-ancestry-in-south-asians/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
"Preserve the race please."
LOL, yeah guys, preserve the race; marry "mulattas" instead of blacks!
Of course in real life the Brits never had a space program
Well we did have the beginnings of one:
Black Knight
and
Black Arrow
Infamously we are the only nation to have given up a space program.
And these rockets also owed a lot to Nazi technology.
Wonderful series of posts, Steve. I've riffed on them and linked here:
http://ex-army.blogspot.com/2012/07/miscegenation-nation.html
Alas Fleming was himself a very provincial and narrow Brit.
Lets have a look at Wikipedia:
"Educated at Eton, the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst and the universities of Munich and Geneva, Fleming moved through a number of jobs before he started writing.
While working in British Naval Intelligence during the Second World War, Fleming was involved in the planning stages of Operation Mincemeat and Operation Golden Eye, the former of which was successfully carried out. He was also involved in the planning and overseeing of two active service units, 30 Assault Unit and T-Force."
Yep, completely average. Seriously, read the whole thing.
Ian Fleming was seen as the dorkier Fleming brother. Peter Fleming was a golden boy travel writer whose books were admired by Evelyn Waugh and others at the literary pinnacle, and whose company was desired by every society hostess. It's kind of like George and Jeb Bush: George seemed like Presidential Timber to us rubes, but not to his family and friends who viewed Jeb as clearly his superior.
oblivious Svigor writes: "Whiskey writes like a high-functioning autistic or otherwise impaired person."
Do you realize how aspie you come off as?
In response to 'BigErn's original comment: I think David Allen Coe wrote a song about that.
"Truth,
Are you really trying to deny that black men tend to prefer light skin, long hair, and European facial features in women even if those women identify as black??
Never said that, the question is, are you trying to deny that these "light skin, long hair(ed), and European facial features women" are black.
The question, and I've brought it up many times is simple, Gloria. If these men had twin brothers, would you be comfortable introducing them to your family as your husband?
Guys, would you be as comfortable with these girls, hypothetical twin brothers bedding your mother, sister or daughter as you would with a white guy. If "no" they're black, plain and simple.
Even if Michael Oher's IQ went from 80 to only 96 that is a 16 point increase, which is still equal to the gap in averages between African-Americans and whites and it essential moved him from the range of cognitive impairment to around average. Please note that I'm not judging Michael Oher by the movie (I haven't seen it).
That he wasn't a great high school student (the GPA I've seen would make him a C+ student) and it took heroic efforts on the part of the Tuohys to improve his grades is not surprising given the deficit he was climbing out of. As the excerpt I quoted pointed out, he'd never learned phonics and I'm sure he never learned a lot of other things, so he was essentially climbing out of a hole that he would not have had to climb out of had he had a home environment like that provided by the Tuohys from infancy rather than starting in around 18, when much of his childhood was already wasted. I run a race with you and ask you to sit still for 90% of the race while I'm running, how well do you think you'll do compared to me and how much effort would you have to exert and how much help would you need to even catch up to me near the end?
As many have pointed out (e.g., John McWhorter's book "Losing the Race: Self-Sabotage in Black America"), there is a strong cultural influences that sabotage blacks, including anti-intellectualism and a victimhood identity that black children will be exposed to, even if raised by a white middle class family who likely does not have the same force of will that the Tuohys had to take the sort of heroic measures that they took for Michael Oher, which you touched upon in your reply.
Historically, the achievement of various cultures rise and fall as their culture changes. Look, for example, at the impact of Anglicization on the Scots, Irish, and Welsh. Look at how long Europe spent in the Dark Ages after Rome fell and where the Renaissance flourished. Look at the legacy of Anglicization in various former UK colonies vs. the legacy that French culture had on it's former colonies. Examples abound of now-troubled ethnicities with long-gone (and some not-so-long gone) golden ages of high achievement and ethnicities that excel today who had low-achieving ancestors. That biological intelligence factors change rapidly enough to explain such shifts in fortune seems a far less plausible explanation than clear and sometimes rapid changes in culture that do correspond with the changes.
"After all that's been documented some people totally ignore everything and just repeat the same old slogans. Being in denial means never having to accept reality."
I've looked at the evidence and it does not adequately isolate culture from the equation. I've provided an anecdotal example of a black man who, as a result of a significant cultural shift around age 18, saw his IQ raise at least 16 points (using Steve Sailor's college IQ) and perhaps as much as 30 points (using the more optimistic evaluation of Jakatae Jessup in The Blind Side). It's not a matter of being in denial. It's a matter of understanding that correlation does not necessarily equal causation.
"That biological intelligence factors change rapidly enough to explain such shifts in fortune seems a far less plausible explanation than clear and sometimes rapid changes in culture that do correspond with the changes."
Anon, if it works I'm all for it.
Truth,
People like Halle Berry and (especially) her daughter are black under America's weird one drop standard, but it's clear that they have substantial non-African ancestry compared to most African Americans. Still, I think it is fair to note than an American magazine like Marie Claire, or a Korean magazine or an Arab magazine the women featured may be beautiful, but aside from being taller and thinner with more defined features they don't look that different from the ordinary women who read the magazines. However any magazine for black women is filled with women who for the most part look the mestiza hispanics or Greek and Italian beach bunnies I mentioned. Most ethnic groups' standards of beauty showcase their typical features. American blacks don't do this.
Anon 6:27
It is inherently hard to separate race and culture when looking at IQ scores and related stuff, and my understanding is that transracial adoption studies give some support to the idea that some of the black/white IQ difference has to do with upbringing and environment. However, this is less helpful than it might be for two reasons:
a. I don't see any honest way to look at the evidence that doesn't leave me thinking that the black/white IQ differences must have a pretty big genetic component. I don't know what fraction it explains, but it seems almost impossible to me that the size and persistence of this differencee is not coming to a large extent from genes.
b. As a practical matter, we're not going to (and shouldn't) take all the black kids away from their parents and raise them in middle-class white families. So if we want to know what black performance in school will look like in 20 years, even the cultural/environmental part seems like it will still mostly be in place.
Silver:
If the woman in the article had had three kids by three different white lowlife fathers (during their occasional interludes between prison sentences), her situation would be about as bad as it is now. That decision, which was overwhelmingly under her control, does not change by the race of the lowlife sperm donor. The advice she needed was not "don't sleep with black men," but rather "don't get pregnant by multiple different lowlifes." Yes, statistically, blacks are more likely to be lowlifes of this kind, but that's not the big mistake she made.
Now, if you're seriously considering marrying someone who's black, you might want to look up the interracial divorce statistics. (The worst pairing is black men/white women; Asian men/white women do notably worse than white/white couples, too. White men in interracial marriages tend to do about as well wrt divorce as white men married to white women--oddly, white men married to black women have fewer divorces than anyone else, I think.)
A bigger concern, at least to my mind, is the genetics--even if your spouse is very smart, beware regression to the mean. This applies to smart whites from lowlife families, too. If your spouse's grandparents all seem to have been pretty bright and functional, that probably bodes well for your kids.
FWIW, I'd be happier living in a world where race didn't matter in these ways, where the Steven J Gould worldview was true. I just don't live in that world. But I don't think I'm letting this wish keep me from seeing reality.
Even if Michael Oher's IQ went from 80 to only 96 that is a 16 point increase, which is still equal to the gap in averages between African-Americans and whites and it essential moved him from the range of cognitive impairment to around average.
But we have no reason to think that his IQ actually increased. We have double or triple hearsay about the results of, presumably, two tests.
Even if we assume the hearsay accounts are accurate, we still need to remember that people don't score the same every time they take an IQ test. Most likely, Oher always had an IQ in the 85-90 range, but scored a little lower on one occasion and a little higher on another.
I've provided an anecdotal example of a black man who, as a result of a significant cultural shift around age 18, saw his IQ raise at least 16 points....
No, you didn't. You provided an anecdote about a person who took two IQ tests and had different scores on the two tests.
@Anonymous
I don't doubt that mixed women who were raised culturally white are more likely to date white men than average black women. However, just based on the bf/wm pairings that I've seen, I'd say that most of these women are not "light skinned" or mixed but they do tend to "act white". There's no hard evidence either way.
@Kylie
Name-calling is a typical concession of defeat. We needn't debate the semantics of "working class" and "low class". Obviously, I was using the terms interchangeably. You clearly know that. I asked for some evidence and you couldn't provide it, because you have none. As usual.
@Svigor
There are at least two recent studies which point to a link between bigotry and low iq. I'll post them shortly, but they can easily be found through google. The laws of hbd show a direct relationship between low iq groups and low class. Any community whose members generally have low iqs will necessarily be low class.
Truth wrote:
"LOL, yeah guys, preserve the race; marry "mulattas" instead of blacks! "
Some of these guys are so afraid of "genetic annihilation" that they not only encourage white/mulatto couples (nothing wrong with that, of course)--they even fantasize about mulattos and whites teaming up to *get* the blacks.
Anonymous wrote:
"However any magazine for black women is filled with women who for the most part look the mestiza hispanics or Greek and Italian beach bunnies I mentioned."
You're mistaking "hip-hop" magazines for "black women's" magazines. The former are filled with the types of women you described. Flip through any issue of Essence and surely you'll find a significant number of mixed-race celebrities, but the majority of women in these magazines are indeed predominantly black. If you're willing to take on the tedium of scanning and posting every ad and article from one of these magazines, I can count how many look black to me and how many look like mestiza hispanics, greek or italian bunnies. You can do the same. But then, appearance is subjective.
"Most ethnic groups' standards of beauty showcase their typical features. American blacks don't do this."
It might appear that way at first glance, because blacks are more prevalent in American pop culture. Hence, their colorism is out in the open. Not the case with, say, Hispanics or East Indians, whose pop cultures almost exclusively promote women who are lighter and whiter than the norm.
"Name-calling is a typical concession of defeat."
That's exactly what I thought when you brought up white nationalists.
"We needn't debate the semantics of "working class" and "low class". Obviously, I was using the terms interchangeably. You clearly know that."
Yes, but I wasn't. You clearly know that. If you're going to object to my comments, do so on the basis of what I said rather than substituting your own terms that change the meaning of what I was saying.
"I asked for some evidence and you couldn't provide it, because you have none. As usual."
No you demanded that I provide evidence in support of your misrepresentation of my comments. Not going to happen. I have no idea by what you mean "as usual"; I don't even recall replying to you before now.
www.bostonherald.com/news/region/view/20220719dad_guilty_of_throwing_baby_down/srvc=home&position=4
One of the new, diverse members of my community and his crackhead baby momma. I thought addiction to powerful central nervous system stimulants made you thin?
"They must have been removed over many generations, or through extreme selection. How many centuries and thousands of years. How many trials, for the poor lesser folk!"
Well, yeah, that's how evolution works. There are winners and losers. Though the losers don't necessarily suffer in the process; they just have fewer children who reproduce.
And you were the one who claimed to be thinking millennia ahead.
Yes, that is how evolution works. I see that you're finally just now thinking about it. So you are saying you want to spend tens of thousands of years in mediocrity and not even be sure that we will return to our present level. Hmm, yes, I see, what a marvelous idea.
"Why go through all this trouble? Could the Ashkenazim have not benefited more from intermixing with a high iq population instead?"
Who said that they had to pick one or the other? They have also benefited by mixing with high IQ Europeans.
How amusing. You have only just thought of this. Well, think a little further - why even mix with the low iq population? What bearing does Ashkenazim may or may not do have on the matter at all?
"Consider that we are also vastly more capable (and better looking) than they were. Care to have your descendants reevolve all that again, taking tens of thousands of years?
What if they don't?"
You're missing the point. The Neolithic Revolution was man's first real step towards Civilization proper, and it was pioneered by a predominantly Caucasian population that had (relatively) recently experienced gene flow from Africa. It's possible that this was mostly coincidental, but it's also possible that this admixture marked an important evolutionary event in the (pre)history of West Eurasians.
No, you are missing the point. We are better than them. Mixing with a low IQ population will drag us down to mediocrity, with no guarantee anyone as good as us will ever emerge from the melange ever again
Even if they did, I'm not willing to wait tens of thousands of years, consigning future humans to untold millenia of mediocrity and misery - whereas you are desperate to do so, for a chance. You must have a rather low opinion of yourself to think that that is a great idea.
Read Hawks' writings on "adaptive introgression" and see how archaic hominid admixture in Africans may have played a role in all this. It's all highly speculative but very interesting.
Everyone with any interest and competence in the field has already learned about such things. You are like an overeager schoolboy eager trying to impress, regurgitating a few tidbits he heard in class and thinking he appears smart. Or a SWPL repeating the latest goodthink :)
This isn't a tea party. Now run along, lassie :)
Svigor wrote,
"I don't see the similarities in style between Drunk Idiot and Whiskey. Drunk Idiot writes like a normal SWPL type. Whiskey writes like a high-functioning autistic or otherwise impaired person."
I'll probably have to rethink my writing style if I'm coming off as a normal SWPL type. Definitely not the biggest fan of SWPL types (though they're not the worst people to have as your neighbors).
The reason the commenter known as "Crump" made a connection between Whiskey's writing style and mine is because I wrote:
"some say that nice white ladies HATE HATE HATE boring white beta males."
The "some say" part was a reference to Whiskey, because, as the commenter known as "peterike" notes, "HATE HATE HATE" has become a mini-meme at some of the sites Whiskey frequents.
Maybe "Crump" was just confused because in modern American journalism, "some say" has become synonymous with "I say, but have to pretend to be objective (and besides, don't have the evidence to prove whatever accusation I'm leveling at the subject of my critique)."
Hey, come to think of it, "Crump" sounds suspiciously like Benjamin Crump.
As for Whiskey's contention that white women HATE HATE HATE boring white beta males...
Whiskey gets a lot of abuse at iSteve, but some of his central themes are pretty true. White women really do prefer sexy, exciting alpha males to white beta males. Network TV really is targeted at a young female audience (and does actually reflect a whole lotta gay sensibilities).
Where Whiskey gets into trouble is when he advocates for a super hawkish "invade the world" foreign policy, when he invents facts (like the time he argued that Chicago is 70% black), and when he predicts things like Obama cancelling the 2012 election and installing Marshall Law.
"Truth,
People like Halle Berry and (especially) her daughter are black under America's weird one drop standard, but it's clear that they have substantial non-African ancestry compared to most African Americans."
The point, which I don't think is that complicated is, YOU (meaning white people) invented the "one drop" standard, and YOU want to revoke it when it's convenient. Trayvon Martin doesn't look like anyone I saw in Ghana, he obviously has significant white ancestry; but I've heard no one on this site claim him.
"Still, I think it is fair to note than an American magazine like Marie Claire, or a Korean magazine or an Arab magazine the women featured may be beautiful, but aside from being taller and thinner with more defined features..."
Yes, more DEFINED features meaning whiter. White people run the planet, and anywhere in the world, whiter women are valued. If you have an argument of this, you've never seen a Bollywood film.
"they don't look that different from the ordinary women who read the magazines."
If you look anything like Elle McPherson or Christie Brinkley, you're going to have a lot of fans here, babe.
"However any magazine for black women is filled with women who for the most part look the mestiza hispanics or Greek and Italian beach bunnies I mentioned."
If you can look at any cast memeber of "Basketball wives" and confuse someone with an Sophia Loren, you may need lasix.
"Most ethnic groups' standards of beauty showcase their typical features. American blacks don't do this."
Most white women are not blonde, most sucessful actresses, models are. What you are saying is certainly not totally wrong just extremely limited in it's scope and understanding.
"But we have no reason to think that his IQ actually increased. We have double or triple hearsay about the results of, presumably, two tests."
We've heard double hearsay on the result of one IQ test from you, yet we still believe you, Ben, when you claim to be a genius...
"Most likely, Oher always had an IQ in the 85-90 range, but scored a little lower on one occasion and a little higher on another."
...but not so much of a genius that we take your opinion over that of the actual IQ testers.
"Some of these guys are so afraid of "genetic annihilation" that they not only encourage white/mulatto couples (nothing wrong with that, of course)--they even fantasize about mulattos and whites teaming up to *get* the blacks."
Yeah, that or the poster is an imbecile.
"This is a common way in which white nationalists avoid addressing the needs of the white lower-class, from which most of them hail(but are embarrassed to admit)."
Evidence?
"Whiskey gets a lot of abuse at iSteve, but some of his central themes are pretty true."
Yes, men like women a little lighter, women like men a little darker, and a lot of women have a weakness for men who misbehave; but the question is; does anyone over the age of 4, truly need someone to elucidate this for him?
"But we have no reason to think that his IQ actually increased. We have double or triple hearsay about the results of, presumably, two tests."
Did you bother to read the excerpts from the book?
"Michael Oher had been tested, and more than once, as a child. Those tests had pegged his IQ at 80."
At the other end of the claim, I was accepting Steve Sailor's claim that Oher "scored a 96 IQ on the NFL draft combine's Wonderlic test coming out of college" without question but the excerpt that I posted from the book also discussed how "two psychological examiners established that his IQ was currently somewhere between 100 and 110" so, no, as was already made clear earlier in the thread, this wasn't just "two tests" nor "hearsay". And applying your cal about the same person showing a range of scores, the 100-110 evaluation and the 96 evaluation suggest, if anything, that the 96 was a low end score. Further, beyond the IQ tests, we have his GPA as evidence of the cognitive change, which went from 0.3 to 2.65. The change was very real, even if it grates against your confirmation bias and you want to grasp at straws to deny it's real.
...as was already made clear earlier in the thread, this wasn't just "two tests" nor "hearsay".
You administered the tests yourself?
You don't know what hearsay is.
And we don't know anything about how his IQ was "pegged" at 80 or later "established" to be between 100 and 110.
You're giving us a bunch of unsubstantiated quotes from an author trying to make money peddling a feel-good story.
Truth wrote,
Yes, men like women a little lighter, women like men a little darker, and a lot of women have a weakness for men who misbehave; but the question is; does anyone over the age of 4, truly need someone to elucidate this for him?
I've been leaving the occasional comment at iSteve since probably January or February, but up to now, haven't attracted any snark from Truth.
Now my cherry's been popped. Is there a merit badge or something that you get for going back and forth with Truth? If so, do you get an additional badge if Truth calls you "champ"?
Truth's question is actually pretty good though. After all, it should be obvious to just about anybody that women like high status men. And even though most women would prefer to pair off with a neurosurgeon who looks and acts like George Clooney, females of all ages swoon for guys who misbehave, or who are otherwise too cool to be phased by the ladies' feminine wiles.
But that's not what the culture tells you. That's not what white boys out in the suburbs and out in small town middle America have pounded into their heads while they're growing up (in their favor, *most* black and Latino guys have the good fortune of not being indoctrinated in feminist empowerment B.S. while growing up -- or if they are subjected to such indoctrination, they seem to see it for the B.S. it is and just blow it off).
If it were, there wouldn't be so many grown men (from their 20s on up) whining about women preferring jerks to nice guys. If it were, "seduction" and "pick up artist" websites wouldn't be such a revelation to so many guys. Mystery and Heartiste/Roissy wouldn't have so many fans, or draw so much ire from the "respectable people" (and yeah, Mystery comes off like a clown, but he's popular because he hits on the truth).
A whole lot of guys go through life befuddled by the cognitive disonance they get from observing how the world works, juxtaposed against how they were taught the world works.
When he's not off on some tangent, Whiskey does a decent job of writing about some of those truths (even if he tends to beat the same points into the ground over and over and over...). And those truths are eye-openers for some guys.
Where Whiskey gets into trouble is when he advocates for a super hawkish "invade the world" foreign policy, when he invents facts (like the time he argued that Chicago is 70% black),
Chicago is 31% white.
I wonder what life there would be like if it were 99% white. Exactly the same? Probably not.
Hey do you all remember those mixture problems from middle school?
Here's one:
If the white crime rate is 0.6
Asian is 0.2, Hispanic is 1.8. and black is 4.8,
And your town is 7% Asian, 30% white, 29% Hispanic, and 34% black, then what is the crime rate?
It's not culture. It's not 100% not-culture, but it's not culture. Blacks are universally lower-g across time, place and socio-economic class. The idea that planting education Taj Mahals in the ghetto and shipping blacks off to live with rich white people will Make A Million Ohers Bloom is pure fantasy. Even if it could be done, the distributions wouldn't change. The best your going to do is sift out a few high-g diamonds in the rough, and bump most up a half-SD.
So like Steve has said, we need to lower our sights. Don't spend billions on a Gladwellian quest to prove everybody can be Einstein; just try to get everybody up a half-SD. Eliminate nutritional deficits, outlaw teacher unions, let schools expel the bad apples, and you've got a pretty good start on things.
Anti-Gnostic:
And one other thing: When someone shows up with serious potential, particularly someone black and/or poor, vaccuum them the hell up and into good schools and opportunities to make something of themselves. Under no circumstances is it okay to sacrifice the Sowells and Thomases of the world on the altar of either PC or teachers' unions/incompetent educational systems.
oblivious Svigor writes: "Whiskey writes like a high-functioning autistic or otherwise impaired person."
Do you realize how aspie you come off as?
I dunno - about 1/10th as aspie as Whiskey, and 1/5th as aspie as you?
Never said that, the question is, are you trying to deny that these "light skin, long hair(ed), and European facial features women" are black.
The question, and I've brought it up many times is simple, Gloria. If these men had twin brothers, would you be comfortable introducing them to your family as your husband?
Guys, would you be as comfortable with these girls, hypothetical twin brothers bedding your mother, sister or daughter as you would with a white guy. If "no" they're black, plain and simple.
So brown, yellow, red, sepia, etc., all = black now. Good to know.
But seriously though,
If the woman in the article had had three kids by three different white lowlife fathers (during their occasional interludes between prison sentences), her situation would be about as bad as it is now. That decision, which was overwhelmingly under her control, does not change by the race of the lowlife sperm donor. The advice she needed was not "don't sleep with black men," but rather "don't get pregnant by multiple different lowlifes." Yes, statistically, blacks are more likely to be lowlifes of this kind, but that's not the big mistake she made.
And thus, "don't sleep with black men" would have ruled out a huge number of lowlifes. And figuring out if someone is black is much easier than figuring out if he's a lowlife.
A bigger concern, at least to my mind, is the genetics--even if your spouse is very smart, beware regression to the mean. This applies to smart whites from lowlife families, too. If your spouse's grandparents all seem to have been pretty bright and functional, that probably bodes well for your kids.
You got data for regression to family mean vs. regression to racial mean?
There are at least two recent studies which point to a link between bigotry and low iq.
So, liberals are stupid, since liberalism and bigotry are joined at the hip.
I'll post them shortly, but they can easily be found through google. The laws of hbd show a direct relationship between low iq groups and low class. Any community whose members generally have low iqs will necessarily be low class.
How about some studies of the actual people you mentioned? You said "WNs," not "bigots." IIRC there is some data on SES and such for WNs, but it goes in the opposite direction of the one you're pointing.
I'll probably have to rethink my writing style if I'm coming off as a normal SWPL type. Definitely not the biggest fan of SWPL types (though they're not the worst people to have as your neighbors).
Figured I'd have to walk that one back. :) I just meant a normal conversational style indicating middle-class or above upbringing.
Whiskey gets a lot of abuse at iSteve, but some of his central themes are pretty true. White women really do prefer sexy, exciting alpha males to white beta males. Network TV really is targeted at a young female audience (and does actually reflect a whole lotta gay sensibilities).
Where Whiskey gets into trouble is when he advocates for a super hawkish "invade the world" foreign policy, when he invents facts (like the time he argued that Chicago is 70% black), and when he predicts things like Obama cancelling the 2012 election and installing Marshall Law.
Might as well say "Whiskey gets a lot of abuse at iSteve, but a lot of what he says is true; water really is wet, and gravity really does keep you on the ground." Three parts truth mixed with one part bullshit becomes 100% bullshit.
The point, which I don't think is that complicated is, YOU (meaning white people) invented the "one drop" standard, and YOU want to revoke it when it's convenient. Trayvon Martin doesn't look like anyone I saw in Ghana, he obviously has significant white ancestry; but I've heard no one on this site claim him.
I don't want to revoke the "one drop" rule when it's convenient (and the idea that white people make the rules for you seems a bit "convenient," to use your term). But I don't go all "One Drop to Rule Them All," either. The "one drop" rule was a social convention. Or, as Wikipedia states:
The one-drop rule is a historical colloquial term in the United States for the social classification as black of individuals with any African ancestry; meaning any person with "one drop of black blood" was considered black. The principle of "invisible blackness" was an example of hypodescent, the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status.[1] The one-drop rule was not adopted as law until the 20th century: first in Tennessee in 1910 and in Virginia under the Racial Integrity Act of 1924 (following the passage of similar laws in several other states).
It's a social and legal term, not a scientific or genetic one. And during the term's heyday, people were perfectly comfortable with the term "mulatto." Social convention doesn't really run the conversation here, in case you hadn't noticed.
And for the umpteenth time, I'd be 1/8th as pissed to have my daughter show up for dinner with a 1/8 black 7/8ths white dude as I would if she showed up with a 8/8ths black dude. I don't think this point is all that complicated, either, but that's in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
"they don't look that different from the ordinary women who read the magazines."
If you look anything like Elle McPherson or Christie Brinkley, you're going to have a lot of fans here, babe.
Ooh, hostile edit! I love this game:
Truth said:
you're going to have a lot of fans here
I agree!
Yes, men like women a little lighter, women like men a little darker, and a lot of women have a weakness for men who misbehave; but the question is; does anyone over the age of 4, truly need someone to elucidate this for him?
No. Whiskey's jackass-ness may be the single most consistent point of consensus between T-Dog and me.
"You don't know what hearsay is."
Yeah, I do. In the normal vernacular sense, it means a rumor or evidence offered by someone without direct knowledge of what's being talked about. The claims I made are backed by a published book (which is further backed by numerous articles that corroborate the facts found in that book) that includes detailed quotes from a psychologist who performed the evaluation used to gain admittance to a college. Would that meet the standard of evidence necessary for a court of law? Perhaps not, but this isn't a court of law and very little that is said in this thread or blog would meet that standard.
"And we don't know anything about how his IQ was 'pegged' at 80 or later 'established' to be between 100 and 110."
I'll ask again, did you read the book excerpts? That all seemed clear enough to me.
"You're giving us a bunch of unsubstantiated quotes from an author trying to make money peddling a feel-good story."
You do understand that there was a context to why his intelligence was being evaluated and it wasn't simply to generate fodder for a feel-good story, right?
Of course even if I did track down his original school evaluations and get you a signed affidavit from Jakatae Jessup that would hold up in a court of law, you'd come up with some other line of objection, as you started to do when you assumed that only two tests were given and so on. Isn't that how the game is played?
Anti-Gnostic, take a look at the early Gautreaux Project, when it did effectively change culture. Read Sowell's accounts of the performance of black students at public schools in New York City and DC before they decided to go easy on the students.
Anon - taking your wishful thinking at face value you are arguing for the wholesale deconstruction of black America. Which begs the question why majority black populations are so dysfunctional. I guess we'll just have to miscegenate them out of existence. Can we volunteer your daughters? And your sources are awfully skimpy on the details.
Yeah, I do. In the normal vernacular sense, it means a rumor or evidence offered by someone without direct knowledge of what's being talked about.
And you don't have direct knowledge, so by your own definition it's hearsay. And you're getting your beliefs from an author who got his beliefs from a psychologist. That's double hearsay.
"And we don't know anything about how his IQ was 'pegged' at 80 or later 'established' to be between 100 and 110."
I'll ask again, did you read the book excerpts? That all seemed clear enough to me.
I read the excerpts you posted, and they contained absolutely no statements about how his IQ was 'pegged' at 80 or later 'established' to be between 100 and 110.
Re: Michael Oher. I think iSteve readers, especially the foreign contingent, ignore the fact that when NCAA Division 1A football is involved, the public facts are molded to fit the preferred narrative. Michael Lewis is an OK scribbler, but the Wall Streeters that he usually writes about are rank amateurs compared to the modern Machiavellis running the NCAA.
" The "one drop" rule was a social convention."
Uh, no.
There were no, "Oh, let's see you have hazel eyes and your afro is a little less coiled, so you can stay in my hotel, or drink in the white water fountain" excptions made.
If you were black enough for white people to know that you were black, you were black. period.
"And for the umpteenth time, I'd be 1/8th as pissed to have my daughter show up for dinner with a 1/8 black 7/8ths white dude as I would if she showed up with a 8/8ths black dude."
Oh, 1/8 huh, so I guess you'd show up for the wedding but sit there on the couch by yourself for 2 hours with your arms and legs tightly crossed and your lower lip extended theatrically?
" The "one drop" rule was a social convention."
Uh, no.
There were no, "Oh, let's see you have hazel eyes and your afro is a little less coiled, so you can stay in my hotel, or drink in the white water fountain" excptions made.
If you were black enough for white people to know that you were black, you were black. period.
That's a social convention.
Oh, 1/8 huh, so I guess you'd show up for the wedding but sit there on the couch by yourself for 2 hours with your arms and legs tightly crossed and your lower lip extended theatrically?
I hadn't given it that much thought, but I'd consider double-dipping, yeah.
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