The AP reports:
House Republicans still smarting from their poor showing among Hispanics in the presidential election are planning a vote next week on immigration legislation that would both expand visas for foreign science and technology students
That will appeal to Hispanics voters. What Mexican-American family doesn't have a cousin with a physics Ph.D.?
and make it easier for those with green cards to bring their immediate families to the U.S.
Who will vote Republican in gratitude, no doubt.
Republican leaders made it clear after the election that the party was ready to get serious about overhauling the nation’s dysfunctional immigration system, a top priority for Hispanic communities. Taking up what is called the STEM Jobs Act during the lame-duck session could be seen as a first step in that direction.
The House voted on a STEM bill — standing for science, technology, engineering and mathematics — in September, but under a procedure requiring a two-thirds majority. It was defeated, with more than 80 percent of Democrats voting against it, because it offset the increase in visas for high-tech graduates by eliminating another visa program that is available for less-educated foreigners, many from Africa.
Punishing American computer programmers and engineers by letting in more Asians, who vote heavily Democratic, seems like a brilliant strategy for whipping up enthusiasm for the GOP brand among American computer programmers and engineers.
Posts
52 comments:
Whites need to focus on winning power OUTSIDE politics. And white conservatives need to focus on quality power than quantity power, especially as the white share of the population keeps shrinking.
Here is a WHAT IF.
Suppose Bush had pulled out a victory in 92. Suppose Buchanan gave a more moderate speech. Suppose Bush had done better in debates. Suppose Clinton messed up somehow.
The economy was recovering after 92, and GOP might have won again in 96. The bust of dot.com might have happened under GOP, so Dems might have won in 2000. With 9/11 happening and nation rallying behind the president, Dems might have won in 2004. But housing bust would have happened under Dems, and GOP would have won in 2008.
As an about-to-be-minted STEM Ph.D. I'm not thrilled with the idea of adding to the already-stiff H1B competition as it is. But I might trade it to chop the visas for unskilled immigrants, which are just a disaster.
What stupidity. They will never win the pandering to immigrants game. Not ever. These Establishment GOP types are just ensuring their defeat. Maybe that is what they want They ought to worry about the white vote now. They ought to expose voter fraud. You would think that the GOP had never lost an election again. They cannot hold them selves back from caving and betraying their base. They sound like a bunch of Democrats (hmmm...(
We could never have a real, honest American election again.
Honestly, this country is headed for a race war within a generation. Sooner or later, push will come to shove. But then that is what the left wants. One way or another they mean to destroy this nation. It is what the Democrat party is all about. THe
It is absurd. We have an invading army brought on by (mostly Leftist) politicians that want to degrade the native citizens of this nation.
The Left is doing the same thing in the EU with Muslim and 3rd world immigrants. If history is any guide, we know how that will end up over there. America may be too effeminate for that sort of business these days. The last 60 years has seen unbridled power lust aim at the very nation that gave these people their positions. Pure treason.
Why is it that everyone except white people get to have their own "homeland".
Nobody is running around saying the Chinese, the Japanese or the Palestinians have to import Christian or Germans.
Clearly, the West is committing suicide, egged on by Boomer leftist and their spawn.
Down in the live on one generation. And brought low by such mendacious mediocrities too.
The real secret to conservative victory is deprogramming white liberals from Jewish control... but it's not so easy since American conservatism is mostly about sucking up to Zionists.
Jews hate white conservatives and made white liberals hate white conservatives, but white conservatives love Jews even as they hate white liberals.
.....because it offset the increase in visas for high-tech graduates by eliminating another visa program that is available for less-educated foreigners, many from Africa.
Because if there's anything that American cities need, it's more uneducated black people. Detroit, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Washington, DC, Baltimore, etc. - I hear all of them are suffering from Negro shortages. It's not enough that Obama gets 102% of the inner city vote, he needs to get 110%.
Don't be fooled in to believing this is about tilting US immigration policy towards the better educated--Republicans have also been pushing for H-2A and H-2B expansion. H-2A has no quota. They want to expand this visa by low-balling the prevailing wage provision. Republicans want to use immigration to put downward wage pressure on labor--their excuse, "We're doing it for the Hispanic vote."
Whites need to focus on winning power OUTSIDE politics.
Everything is political in today's USA.
Loss of political power = loss of power, full stop, period.
As I said before, it's time for the Republican Party to go the way of the Whigs.... let a new conservative party rise from the ashes.
Is there no end to the innumerate idiocy of the Republican party?
Actually the reason Republicans are for STEM is because big business is for it, especially the computer software industry. Its all about donations - aka money.
Via Scots Irishman Mickey Kaus, even a liberal think tank is now questioning the meme that we have a STEM labor shortage.
I dream every day of the total annihilation of this disgusting and shameful pack of hacks.
"Loss of political power = loss of power, full stop, period."
GOP had power from 2000 to 2008. Who gained more power in that period? Liberal Jews or the Christian Right?
There never was a Jewish or gay president. Why are Jews and gays so powerful?
Political power comes from economic power, intellectual power, moral power(how moral issues are framed by education, entertainment, news media),and legal power.
Economic power buys politicians. Economic power also buys media. Look at Rupert Murdoch's empire. Money also funds universities and think tanks. So, smart people who make a lot of money has great sway on politics.
Intellectual power means more positions in the academia, which means training and educating the elites of this country. Real power rests with the upper class of any society, and elite academic institutions shape the minds of the elites. So, smart high-quality people who occupy top positions of the academia get to mold the minds of future elites.
News media and entertainment have a tremendous impact on how people see the world. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 1/3 of the voters decide whom to vote for based on the impression they got from stuff like TV talk shows. If Obama had been skewered as mercilessly by Jewish comic writers for late night TV, Obama might have lost.
Also, consider the power of the ACLU. A handful of talented lawyers can challenge the entire social and cultural system by legal means.
From 1968 to 1992, the GOP won five presidential races to only one by the Democrats, but all that time, liberals were gaining over the conservatives in just about every facet of power. Why? Because liberals invested more in quality power, not least because most Jews happen to be liberal.
Also, why did the neocons take over the GOP? Like them or not, neocons were intellectually far more engaged and 'creative' than most Paleocons who seem to think that their kind was entitled to power and privilege forever.
History doesn't bestow power to any group. Instead, power must be wrested from history. The problem with holding power for a long time--as white gentiles have done--is that the people with the power come to think that they'll always possess power by some historical right. Not so. It's a fallacious form of thinking: "Since we had power for so long, we'll naturally for much longer."
Romans thought that way, and look what happened to them.
Every generation has to fight for power. White folks became like kids of rich parents. They inherited so much power over so many generations that they lost the will to fight for power anew.
This will be the second time in the past couple of months that house Republicans vote on "let's screw the STEMS" legislation. Yet, despite e-verify passing the appropriate committee, house GOP leadership refuses to allow a floor vote. It's time to ditch the Republican party and start a new party.
Anonydroid at 5:25 PM said a bunch.
Hunsdon implored: Get a regular nom du internet, and keep posting. You did, however, leave off one power in your recitation of the places from where political power comes.
You left out firepower.
In the West, no, wait, scratch that, in recent American history, that hasn't been true, but it certainly has been for the majority of human history, and, today, remains true for much of the world.
Remember the Cathaffi enema.
Mao was right, about that at least.
daveinhackensack:"Via Scots Irishman Mickey Kaus, even a liberal think tank is now questioning the meme that we have a STEM labor shortage."
And why did you feel the need to call Kaus "Scots-Irish" instead of Jewish?
There never was a Jewish or gay president. --anon.
Half right. Buchanan wasn't Jewish, and neither is Obama.
Why are Jews and gays so powerful?
Well, start with the fact they don't waste their time with penny-ante positions like POTUS.
From Wikipedia:
In today's discourse in American politics, the Whig Party is often cited as an example of a political party that lost its followers and its reason for being, as by the expression "going the way of the Whigs."[10]
The True Whig Party - named in direct emulation of the American Whig party - was the dominant force in the politics of Liberia for more than a century. ...
Let's have some applause for Republicans in Liberia!
/////////////////////////////////////////
... Also, why did the neocons take over the GOP? Like them or not, neocons were intellectually far more engaged and 'creative' than most Paleocons who seem to think that their kind was entitled to power and privilege forever. ...
I intepret this as a cry from the heart from another Scots-Irishman.
Lots of knee jerking in this thread.
This bill gives green cards to foreign STEM PhD's, who can get it anyway if they want; all they need for that is to find a US employer willing to sponsor them. In exchange, the bill eliminates Diversity Visa Lottery. Result: less immigration, better immigrants. How is it a bad thing?
america needs something to offset the stupidization of the society that is currently underway, and this seems to be a good step in that direction. computer people in the US vote democratic because they are highly educated liberals. American computer scientists arent some big republican constituency. Mentally, however, they should tend libertarian, since they are borderline autistics and aspies, and mostly male.
"Galvani's Frog Dance Theatre's Orchestra Conductor said...
This bill gives green cards to foreign STEM PhD's, who can get it anyway if they want; all they need for that is to find a US employer willing to sponsor them. In exchange, the bill eliminates Diversity Visa Lottery. Result: less immigration, better immigrants. How is it a bad thing?"
In the midst of a recession, with an unemployment rate as high as it's been since, when? 1981? 1947? 1940?, why is any discussion of immigration even on the table? Stop it all.
"In the midst of a recession, with an unemployment rate as high as it's been since, when? 1981? 1947? 1940?, why is any discussion of immigration even on the table? Stop it all."
Because in real world, any deal to limit immigration will involve compromises. This one is pretty good: give a green card to people who'd get it anyway, in exchange for eliminating the lottery.
By the way, the answer to your unemployment question is 1992. And before that, 1984.
Pace Norman Matloff on H1-B's, immigration, and CS employment, there is currently no need for CS immigrants, even at the PhD level. Arguing about the quality of immigrants immediately skips what should be the first step, determining if immigrants are even needed.
Truth is, it's a cheap labor scam.
Think it's not happening and these companies would never stoop so low? Notice who's being sued under anti-trust non-poach agreements. Companies, the normal silicon valley suspects, are colluding to keep salaries low by not hiring each other's employees. It seems sort of ongoing, back in 2010 "six companies agreed not to make any further such hiring pacts. At the time, however, the DoJ warned that its probe wasn't over..." The great thing about H1Bs and similar programs is that it's all legal... The funny thing is often these companies get what they pay for while losing folks with decades of irreplaceable experience. I swear it seems like they would rather have inexperienced engineers who are unfamiliar with the field. Perhaps that way they can "honestly" write patents about things they think are new but aren't. Or maybe I shouldn't even try to find a coherent explantion for this behavior. Or maybe it's even outright inimical, there's plenty of people near the top who seem so.
" Anonymous Reg Cæsar said...
There never was a Jewish or gay president. --anon.
Half right. Buchanan wasn't Jewish, and neither is Obama."
- Obama does have that 'throw like a girl' give-away.... He must've truly grown up into privilege- if a guy threw like that in my neighborhood as a kid he would've been ridiculed and beaten up until he didn't....
"Galvani's Frog Dance Theatre's Orchestra Conductor said...
Because in real world, any deal to limit immigration will involve compromises."
Correction - they always involve compromises.........by us.
"By the way, the answer to your unemployment question is 1992. And before that, 1984."
No, I mean the real unemployment rate, not the one touted by Obama's Department of Labor (What? You believe their statistics?)
"11/23/12 2:37 PM
Anonymous Matt said...
As an about-to-be-minted STEM Ph.D. I'm not thrilled with the idea of adding to the already-stiff H1B competition as it is. But I might trade it to chop the visas for unskilled immigrants, which are just a disaster."
Rest assured, you'll end up with both.
What area are you in, if I might ask?
And best of luck to you.
The claim that further imports of Asian CS/Engineers will piss off native ones seems weird to me. All my work (CS/EE) is telecommute so the national boundary (even if strictly enforced) has a minor impact on my activities. I am not alone. The brain picking fields can already largely ignore state boundaries, unlike the bean picking fields.
rluser
Half right. Buchanan wasn't Jewish, and neither is Obama.
I knew it. Buchanan is a secret Muslim.
Is there really that much asians in the tech fields. Google in Irvine a town where asians are about 40 percent has a larger white staff from the pictures I seen as it but Irvine doesn't have a large Indian population a lot more from China or Taiwan or South Korea.
"The claim that further imports of Asian CS/Engineers will piss off native ones seems weird to me. All my work (CS/EE) is telecommute so the national boundary (even if strictly enforced) has a minor impact on my activities."
In that case, why do we have to let these magical STEM students stay here?
Because in real world, any deal to limit immigration will involve compromises. This one is pretty good: give a green card to people who'd get it anyway, in exchange for eliminating the lottery.
Even money says this bill will be signed into law only if the bit about eliminating the Diversity Lottery is removed.
That's the kind of "compromise" we can expect from our leaders.
Why do we have to let in new people during a recession, period? Common sense tells you if there already aren't enough jobs to go around, then you don't solve that problem by importing more people to fill those select number of jobs.
And there is not a STEM labor shortage. There hasn't been since the 90s (in the late 90s my uncle had to work as a car salesman for a year before finding a decent chem engineering job). Most engineering graduates are not finding jobs easily. The only profession that finds jobs immediately after graduation are nurses.
Didn't Romney want to give citizenship to anyone in the world who had a STEM degree ?
"Actually the reason Republicans are for STEM is because big business is for it, especially the computer software industry."
Big business in general, yes, but software geeks are overwhelmingly libertarian or apolitical. I seriously doubt they donate enough, especially to the GOP, to have much sway. Back when the feds went after Microsoft, one interesting fact that came out was that Gates/Microsoft gave a tiny, tiny amount to politics at the time, mostly to local candidates. Some theorized that he was being punished for not participating, actually.
Big tech companies like Microsoft and IBM want cheap people, but not what you think of when you think of STEM. This isn't about the genius coder, or the guy with a CS degree who knows software well enough to debug and improve programs. They're going overseas for bottom-dollar customer service techs, and people who can be trained in a couple weeks to write very simple generic bits of code without needing to understand how it works.
OK, I understand the middle one in this photo won't be available but can't they start work on creating a synthesis Republican strongman out of the other 2
why did you feel the need to call Kaus "Scots-Irish" instead of Jewish
It's some kind of insipid gang-initiation thing they've got around here.
GOP might have won again in 96
Even with good economic growth it just becomes asymptotically impossible for the same party in an Anglophone* state to hold on to the top spot past 3 elections. Thatcher/Major made it, what, just shy of 18? (And the Conservatives were bleeding out the whole final 5 years of that, something Major somewhat underestimated when calling elections in '97) FDR is the exception to test the rule but that was really a North/South under-coalition beneath the formal Dem caucus.
*Trudeaupian Canada doesn't count
And there is not a STEM labor shortage. There hasn't been since the 90s (in the late 90s my uncle had to work as a car salesman for a year before finding a decent chem engineering job). Most engineering graduates are not finding jobs easily. The only profession that finds jobs immediately after graduation are nurses.
If there is a nurse shortage, then someone (STEMmers) needs to design and build robot nurses.
The Republicans just don't get it. Non-Whites just do not vote for them and never will. Letting in MORE non-Whites only makes the problem worse. What good did the 1986 Reagan amnesty do for the Republicans? The only correct strategy on immigration for the Republicans is to vastly increase the number of White immigrants or stop immigration altogether.
This is basically an H1B visa expansion, which happens... every year.
Because outsourcing good paying middle class jobs is not enough - now we need insourcing of indian IT personnel.
Last job, when I took a pleasant walk around the complex of offices (different firms), all I saw were indians and chinese.
The future is bright... for the top 1%.
Oh, and this is not pandering to the immigrants (or mexicans, LOL, silly!).
GOP does not care for neither mexicans, indians, or even... gasp... Whites! Or the middle class!
All they care is the top 1%, or perhaps the 1% of the 1%.
As an aside, I'm really enjoying the "secret Muslim/secret Jew" accusations of everyone these days--it fits so well with the general air of a declining empire whose leadership and nobility know they're too important to have to change their behavior just because of a little annoying reality in their way. Not to worry, as long as the silver from the new world, er, I mean, oil from the middle east keeps flowing, we can't lose.
In the short run, more STEM immigrants lower wages for US STEM graduates, which is bad. In the long run, they improve the population, and their kids will probably assimilate and become generic Americans, while not putting a particular burden on the schools to teach algebra 2 to people with an IQ of 85. If we're importing people, smart people are a win. But not with a special visa that only lets them work for one employer, since that makes them a captive of their employer. Instead, if we let them in, we should give them a green card and let them work wherever they like, so they compete on even terms with Americans.
While we're playing what if, what if Reagan who leftists say campaigned on ending affirmative action had ended affirmative action, and hadn't granted amnesty?
What if Newt Gingrich had ended affirmative action?
What if Republicans had refused NAFTA and campaigned against illegal immigration in the '90s?
What if Republicans in power in the 2000s had ended affirmative action, illegal immigration, and globalist trade policy like NAFTA that ships jobs overseas and at the same time leads to illegal immigration?
In the last 30 years, whenever Democrats have had power, we have had more outsourcing and insourcing and more affirmative action. In contrast, whenever Republicans have had power, we have had more outsourcing and insourcing and more affirmative action.
In particular, the Bush Administration's Justice Department was every bit as zealous in pursuing the unconstitutional and not spelled out in any law doctrine of "Disparate Impact".
The part about nurses getting hired easily when they graduate is a lie. My underemployed wife graduated from Nursing school at the top of her class in 2009, only to find that the jobs were all going to immigrants on work visas who would work cheap, or experienced nurses who were increasing their hours because of the economic hard times. Since so many nurses work part-time anyway, it is much easier to fill slack without expensive new hires who need to be trained.
In the short run, more STEM immigrants lower wages for US STEM graduates, which is bad. In the long run, they improve the population, and their kids will probably their kids will probably assimilate and become generic Americans, while not putting a particular burden on the schools to teach algebra 2 to people with an IQ of 85.
So why not allow only European immigrants into the USA?
Children of European immigrants would have a very high probability of assimilating and becoming generic Americans, while not putting a particular burden on the schools to teach algebra 2 to people with an IQ of 85.
Wouldn't that improve America in the way that you desire?
As an aside, I'm really enjoying the "secret Muslim/secret Jew" accusations of everyone these days--it fits so well with the general air of a declining empire whose leadership and nobility know they're too important to have to change their behavior just because of a little annoying reality in their way.
That does not make sense. The USA's "leadership and nobility" does not show much curiosity about possible secret Muslims or what nots. Are you trying to say that iSteve chat people herein are America's leadership and nobility?
Not to worry, as long as the silver from the new world, er, I mean, oil from the middle east keeps flowing, we can't lose.
That analogy doesn't work. either.
When Spain was taking gold and silver from Spanish America, the rising world power was Elizabeth I's England.
England was extremely xenophobic and ethnically homogeneous at that time. Elizabeth I and her court were quite concerned about secret Catholics in her realm trying to undermine England.
"They'll have those wetbacks voting republican for the next 200 years!" - Just like the last 7 amnesties did.
They are wholely and totally compromised, and probably don't give a shit about winning elections.
"They are wholely and totally compromised, and probably don't give a shit about winning elections."
Compromised, yes, but I honestly don't think Mitt Romney and a whole lot of other candidates wasted over a year of their lives seeking office only to 'not give a shit' about winning. I just think many of these guys have no clue how out of touch they are with the base.
In fact, we are ALL out of touch with the "base," seeing as each of us only grasps a very small part of the whole, like 10 blind men groping an elephant. The problem is that Republican pols spend too much time with guys from Wall Street and little to none with working and middle class stiffs. The time they spend with billionaires or lobbyists is very one-on-one, and probably quite blunt re: what they want out of a candidate.
The conversations with the proles are generally more perfunctory, and part of town hall/listening tour-type events (often recorded) where the individuals feel less comfortable being forthright, and maybe even intimidated by the politician or circumstances.
So why not allow only European immigrants into the USA?
Sure, plenty of poor dysfunctional Eastern Europeans. Even if you mean European in its most restrictive sense (no Turks and Caucasians), there are still plenty of impoverished Albanians, Romanians, Roma, Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Moldovans who would love to immigrate. All of whom are white and European, and many of whom are Christian though not Protestant.
"The claim that further imports of Asian CS/Engineers will piss off native ones seems weird to me. All my work (CS/EE) is telecommute so the national boundary (even if strictly enforced) has a minor impact on my activities. I am not alone. The brain picking fields can already largely ignore state boundaries, unlike the bean picking fields."
You sound like the kind of top-shelf guy who can handle a variety of tasks and command a good salary wherever you go. That's not who these guest-worker programs are about. These are about bringing in people to answer phones and read from a support script or churn out basic code. They're not gonna hire a thousand freelancers all around the world to telecommute that; it'd be a nightmare. They want to herd a thousand of them into cubicles in one big code factory, where they can be properly supervised and shunted to wherever they're needed, because labor is fungible, ya know.
They'll go build that factory in India if they have to, but that has drawbacks, because the guys running the factory certainly don't want to go live there. So they'd lots rather ship the factory workers over here, as long as they can get the government to make it worth their while.
The problem, for guys like you and me, isn't that these guest workers will be competing with us directly. As you say, they could do that from over there, if they were on our level. No, the problem is that depressing wages at the bottom depresses them throughout the industry, just as raising the minimum wage pushes wages up in general. If these people take entry level coding jobs that a CS graduate used to take to get a foot in the door, then an employer can offer him a second-level kind of job at entry-level wages, and the process works on up the chain, with everyone dropping down a level in pay.
Post a Comment