September 23, 2013

Crowd Psychology

A reader writes (I anonymized):
Perhaps I'm just being misled by your tendency to embrace lost causes, but...
Recently visited my teeny-tiny hometown of W_____ (pop. 5,600). 
Discovered that the parish priest has been driven from his duties by an accusation of child abuse that supposedly took place 35 years ago. 
His parishioners believe Father XYZ is innocent. Fr. XYZ has passed a lie detector test. Fr. XYZ's supporters believe, as I do, that the claimant in this case is just looking for a payoff, with full knowledge that the Church will not defend accused priests. 
Perhaps this subject doesn't interest you. Seems to me that the gay persecution hysteria is sort of the flip side of the Catholic sexual abuse biz. I lived in gay communities in SF and NYC. Pedophilia and male gaydom do go together. I believe my lying eyes. 
This hysteria over accusations of homosexual predation in the Church seems, to me, to be a barely concealed parallel to the common practice of homosexual predation upon minors so common to gay men. 
In other words, ghosts are rattling around in our collective psyche.

The crowd psychology is complex, but it sounds worth considering. Gay Is Good so the altar boy fondling scandals coming out of the Catholic Church must be driven by pedophilia, not homosexual. And the assumption of just how severe most of these cases are gets blown out of proportion. We need witches to hunt.

Consider the very literal witch hunts of the 1980s-1990s Satanic Ritual Abuse in Nursery Schools delusion as an example of how people's strong feelings in one area can manifest themselves as obsessions in others.


Beefy Levinson said...

According to the 2004 John Jay report, 81% of the abuse victims were teenage boys. Michael Voris of fame could tell you stories. One priest from the Archdiocese of Detroit told him that he didn't go to the Archdiocese's Christmas parties anymore because he was tired of being introduced to priests' boyfriends.

It's a vicious cycle. The priesthood is stereotyped as being almost as much of a gay profession as hairdressing or Broadway theater, which makes good men even less likely to consider it. Here in California the bishops' solution has been to send their vocations directors, hats in hand, to the Philippines and Mexico to beg them for seminarians. From what I've seen, many of those who do come are still as queer as a three dollar bill.

Cyril said...

"Pedophilia and male gaydom do go together."

I think the reader means "pederasty." He or she doesn't seem aware that by using the word pedophilia he's forwarding a spin job that he claims to reject.

But as far as sexual appetites for youth is concerned, are gays really so different from straight men? My mentor at university was was openly gay and obviously but implicitly a pederast. But straight men are also attracted to post-pubescent youths, even if they are 15 or 16 years old. And many of them fixate on those kinds of girls to a disastrous extent. I only need mention the steady drumbeat of teachers and coaches fired for having sex with high school girls.

Anonymous said...

Priests have a hard row to hoe. Losers and loners are constantly showing up at the parish office to unburden themselves but often they turn on their confessors, claiming an abuse of trust. This makes the accuser a center of attention and keeps the pot boiling in his stupid, pointless, and otherwise ignored existence.

Cyril said...

Perhaps the historical association between homosexual behavior and pederasty is as strong as it is because of straight or mostly straight or bisexual men. In a social system in which casual sex with women is impossible or forbidden (prison, ancient Greece [?]) very young and/or effeminate men will be the most acceptable female substitutes.

Anonymous said...

Sure, straight men appreciate the looks of a good-looking 16 year old, but hey, are those jailbait 16 year olds really more physically attractive than the non-jailbait 18,19, 20 year old looker? Nope. What's different is not that the 20 year old is less attractive, but that she's more mindful of the guy's intentions. The gay priests have sllkinds of othr gay priests, including young ones, their disposal, but still coose to prey on the altar boys.

Unknown said...

Beefy, Voris is full of bombast and hyperbole. I doubt that priests are gallivanting around with their boyfriends at Christmas parties. He has an interesting agenda. Who exactly does he answer to? However, I do agree with others here that it is/was a homosexual, pederasty problem rather than pedophilia.

PropagandistHacker said...

This is a very good topic. In decades past there used to be an idea called "mass hysteria." It was an acknowledged phenomenon. I would guess that the idea that mass hysteria happens was somewhat well known among educated people some decades in the past.

But today the idea of mass hysteria has virtually gone away. No one talks about it anymore.

I venture to say that there are now a number of mass hysteria occurrences happening in america right now, to varying degrees.

WTC 911 launched a massive occurrence of mass hysteria. Both the GOP and Dem party activist base are deep into the mass hysteria phenomenon. Gay rights, the elevation of nonwhites to a special social status, so many more.

The child abuse witch hunts of the 1980s were perhaps the first harbinger of modern mass hysteria occurrences. They are far more widespread now, and so deeply ingrained into the public psyche that to even try to talk about it is probably useless.

Mass hysteria is a central aspect of modern american culture and seems to be getting more and more powerful.

PropagandistHacker said...

one more thought on mass hysteria outbreaks in america today--the trayvon martin affair was an almost perfect example of modern mass hysteria. It so perfectly showcased the primary characteristics of the modern american mass hysteria: the inability of those in its grasp to logically and objectively weigh evidence. Mass hysteria in homo sapiens is a phenomenon where participants operate outside of logic.

The Commie Red Scare of the 50s was another example.

Whiskey said...

Except there were many, many Communists as shown by declassified Soviet archives.

However mass hysteria as a coping mechanism for conflict between reality and dogma, belief, emotion is spot on.

911? It seems clear now post Snowden that not having say half of the Somalis in MN blowing up malls is due to massive NSA surveillance and Kenya lacking traffic and surveillance cams, other electronic environment was picked for that reason. Assuming BBC, CNN and others are correct and many Shabbabs are Somalis via Minnesota.

There is a reason jihadis suddenly got stupid or disappeared post 911. The NSA has a global dragnet. And so the survivors adjusted.

Cail Corishev said...

"But straight men are also attracted to post-pubescent youths, even if they are 15 or 16 years old."

That's what's always been so insane about the push to let them be scoutmasters, for instance. No one would send a 30-year-old man out camping or into a locker room with a bunch of 15- to 17-year-old girls; he'd be squeezing the Charmin before long for sure. But we're supposed to believe that homosexual men will be more restrained than heteros around innocent (or not so innocent) youths.

But it's not just that; there's a strong desire to recapture one's youth through fit, youthful partners in one strain of homosexuality. Pay attention to how many times one partner looks like a younger, fitter version of the other. Liberace took it to an extreme by having his boyfriend get surgery to turn him into a doppleganger, but that impulse isn't unusual. Straight men are attracted to nubile women, but rarely obsessed with their youth.

That was the priest abuse scandal: self-loathing, effeminate men -- who should never have made it through the seminary, but the gates had been thrown wide open and the old rules abandoned -- obsessing over post-pubescent teenage boys, and getting away with it because no one expected it or could quite believe it even when they did.

Rex LIttle said...

Something doesn't add up. If Father XYZ passed a lie detector test and his parishioners believe he's innocent then who, exactly, is forcing him out? Seems to me he'd have legal recourse against them.

Unknown said...

The logic is as follows:

Pedophiles are always bad.

Gays are always good.

Therefore pedophiles are not gay.


Shouting Thomas said...

@ Rex

The placement of a priest in any parish is entirely at the discretion of his bishop.

The Church has simply abandoned any priest who is accused of abuse.

The parish priest has no legal recourse that would allow him to regain his job.

Anonymous said...

I think it's more likely that Catholics are lying to themselves about the extent of the abuse to make themselves feel better. The John Jay Report, for example, is not quite as reliable as it's made out to be. Turning it into a "gay problem" makes it easier to digest, nevermind the little girls abused by priests.

I don't know where this "but white people are on welfare too!" type of whining comes from. Half of the scandal in these cases is the coverups by church hierarchy, and moving an accused pedophile priest from one parish to the next, where he still has access to children, without telling law enforcement. One unsubstantiated anecdote about "Father XYZ" doesn't make those cases any less severe.

Anonymous said...

The media are out to get the Church, plain and simple. Have been for a long time. There is -- was -- a very small handful of pedophiles in the Church; most were ephebophiles -- homosexuals attracted to post-pubescent boys. The problem got lots of coverage with no one naming the real problem, insisting on calling it "pedophilia" instead (cue the scary music and a visual of a Roman collar).

Read this article to catch up: A quote:

"Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.

"[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

So, in order to better protect children, did media outlets start hounding the worse menace of the school systems, with headlines about a "Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up" and by asking "Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?"

No, they didn't. That treatment was reserved for the Catholic Church, while the greater problem in the schools was ignored altogether.

As the National Catholic Register's reporter Wayne Laugesen points out, the federal report said 422,000 California public-school students would be victims before graduation — a number that dwarfs the state's entire Catholic-school enrollment of 143,000.

Yet, during the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran four stories about the federal government's discovery of the much larger — and ongoing — abuse scandal in public schools."

Anonymous said...

"His parishioners believe Father XYZ is innocent."

One can never put much stock in this (even if they happen to be correct here)...

notsaying said...

"I lived in gay communities in SF and NYC. Pedophilia and male gaydom do go together. I believe my lying eyes."

Well, if your emailer actually knew or had reasonable suspicions about adults having nonconsensual sex with minors, how many of them did he turn in? Even if the sex was consensual, it may have been a crime.

One of the problems is all the things people "claim" to know, but really don't.

Lying eyes, indeed.

Of course, the sad flip side of this is how many people through the years did have a legitimate suspicion of child sex abuse and said and did nothing.

It is possible that many of the accusations about sexual abuse by priests are true -- and that many are not.

I will not deny that money can be a motivator for false accusations. But I also believe that after-the-fact money compensation does very little to really compensate those who were real victims.

That is not to say that should not get it and don't deserve it. Only that given how much agony of all kinds they experienced (usually for many years) there is not enough money in the world to pay them back for their hurt, anger, lost peace of mind. Often many of these folks were very low wage earners even when their education would have put them into solid middle class jobs.

I certainly do feel very sorry for the falsely accused. They seem to me, though, to be victims of a lying church hierarchy that was more self-protective than anything else. But of course Penn State did the same thing, didn't they?

jody said...

it was funny last week when gennifer flowers popped up after a 20 year hiatus and announced that hillary clinton was bisexual - a completely believable accusation, although uncomfirmed - and many liberals went into reflexive denial mode. "No she isn't!"

hey wait a minute guys, i thought gay was cool? why are you so defensive, with that knee jerk reaction saying she's not? do you have a problem with her being a homo? i thought being a homo was great. what gives?

it was interesting observing that moment of cognitive dissonce, watching many of them blurt out "No she's not!" as if there had just been a pre-emptive character attack on her that she'd have to overcome on her way to taking the presidency in 2016, then immediately regretting it, as their liberal indoctrination kicked in and they realized they weren't towing the homo line by blurting out reflexive defenses of homosexual character attacks.

yeah, it's a problem if a person running for president is an open homosexual, and even most liberals instinctively react in the negative before the conditioning takes over. even worse, if she is a bisexual, that puts her in an even smaller minority, down from 4% where the homos are to like 1% where the bisexuals are. or she could just be a straight up homosexual who married bill as a matter of convenience - lots of homosexuals get married and have kids for purposes of appearances. or in her case, political gain.

jody said...

speaking of bisexuals, the last 2 HIV situations in the porn industry were caused by bisexual men. the one which just happened last month, and the previous one before that. but this is something they don't mention in the news stories and omit from the "condoms in porn?" discussion. you have to go to a porn forum to actually learn what happened.

Anonymous said...

More horseshit from old, sour Steve Sailer. Typical antagonistic heterosexual behavior.

Anonymous said...

You've got a point Steve.

Currently in the UK the witch-hunt is about aged male (heterosexual) TV personalities from the 1960s and 70s being accused of the rape and sexual abuse of teenaged girls, (sometimes aged under 16 at the time of the alleged attacks), who for one reason or another waited 50 years before making a complaint to the police.
I can't help thinking that the prevailing zeitgeist behind the witch-hunt is the enormous 'empowerment' and elevation of women that has occurred in the UK of late, in particular after the New Labour regime of 1997-2010. Bsaically, in the UK, women are a privileged caste in the same way as blacks and gay are. The universal whipping boys are, as ever, white men.
Contrast the way in which real, nasty sex abuse perpetrated by Pakistani gangs on white girls has been hushed up by the UK government. Or even the murder of Charlene Downes.
All Dave Lee Travis ever did was to pinch the odd bottom - if you watch UK TV it seems like he was the Yorkshire Ripper. The Pakistani murderers of Charlene Downes are alleged to have minced her body in a meat grinder.

Anonymous said...

In UKistan Harriet Harman was a leading campaigner for ephebophiles and pederast rights and now she has a problem with the BBC and Jimmy Savile but not the Pakistani grooming gangs. The privileged caste of Ukistan is rich and stupid.

Anonymous said...

The Catholic sex mess plays to the blind spots of both the left and the right. The left doesn't want to believe the Church has a gay problem, while the right (the Catholic right, anyway) doesn't want to believe the Church has a sex problem.

Anonymous said...

Over thirty years age, long before the Boston Globe started the scandal rolling, prominent Catholic conservatives like Malachi Martin were warning that a homosexual subculture had taken root in many Catholic seminaries and this was inevitably going to lead to problems for the Church. Martin traced the lax standards for filtering out homosexual and other deviant applicants for priesthood to a desperate need to recruit new members for the priesthood and a failure of moral principles in the wake of Vatican II. At the time he and others with the same message were dismissed as cranks. Ye shall reap what ye sow.

Anonymous said...

Crowd psychology indeed.

McMartin Preschool. Fells Acres Daycare. Wee Care Nursery School. The hysteria begins, law enforcement gets involved, innocent people go to jail.

Cail Corishev said...

Malachi Martin is about half-right on that. The lax standards actually began by the 50s, when the seminaries were still full. It wasn't about needing recruits, but about embracing modernity and what modern psychology was saying about how deviant behaviors like homosexuality could be cured with some therapy. Vatican II, a creation of clergy who came up through the seminaries before 1950 (Pope John XXIII, who called the council, was ordained in 1904), was a symptom of the changes that had already quietly been going on, though it certainly accelerated them.

One priest who turned out to be a homosexual predator used to brag about how he had applied to 20+ seminaries before finding one that would accept him (this would have been in the late 50s). At the time, the lesson was supposed to be about perseverance and how his faith got him through despite the odds. But looking back, it seems like those seminaries -- which weren't hurting for men at all then -- recognized something in him that wasn't good, and it's too bad that last one didn't see it too.

Young fogey emeritus said...

Oh, yeah, it's projection. That and our Protestant-founded culture still hates the Catholic Church so it's a perfect target.

Anonymous said...

Beefy, the link you post does not say what you say it does. It says that 81% of the victims were male. The closest figure to the one you claim is that 78% of victims were aged 11-17 (this includes males and females). This number includes both teenagers and pre-teenagers (assuming teenage starts at thirteen), as well as both prepubescent and postpubescent males and females, and so sheds little light on the question of the link between homosexuality and pederasty.

Unfortunately, while Steve's figures are generally (not always) more accurate and less biased than the mainstream media's (and his questions are usually better), commenters on this site seem to frequently misrepresent facts, only tell one side of the story, or just make stuff up. For those of us who are interested in figuring out the truth about the matters discussed on this site, this is unhelpful.

Anonymous said...

But straight men are also attracted to post-pubescent youths, even if they are 15 or 16 years old. And many of them fixate on those kinds of girls to a disastrous extent. I only need mention the steady drumbeat of teachers and coaches fired for having sex with high school girls.

Bob Robertson, a high school English teacher at Houston's Westbury High School, was just such a man. However, there was no disaster. He just married the girl. He went on to become a family court judge in Houston and served for many years.

Anonymous said...

Consider the very literal witch hunts of the 1980s-1990s Satanic Ritual Abuse in Nursery Schools delusion as an example of how people's strong feelings in one area can manifest themselves as obsessions in others.

AFAICT, Satanism exists. Just as good people have an urge to religion, so do bad people. They seek the sort of religion where evil acts are permitted and even encouraged. They also seek out like-minded people to associate with. Consider L Ron Hubbard hanging out with Crowley. That is also a case in point that evil people are not all stupid. Some are smart, some are very smart.

And when evil people get together, the acts they perform don't generally involve unicorns and rainbows. AFAICT, what they will choose to do is going to be the inverse of Christianity. Do the opposite of the ten commandments. Lie, steal, murder, cheat, commit adultery. And why stop there?

Now what do you think intelligent, evil people do? They network, just like good or even only neutral, amoral people do. They network in such a way as to enable their evil actions. Look at the recent abuse scandals at Penn State for example. That was a network. Maybe not a Satanic one, but it illustrates the concept of networked, intelligent, evil people working together to perpetrate evil acts and prevent themselves from getting caught.

I would not dismiss SRA out of hand, Steve.

Ray Sawhill said...

FWIW, from Wikipedia: "A 1996 investigation of more than 12,000 allegations of satanic, ritual and religious abuse resulted in no cases that were considered factual or corroborated."

Sam said...

Satanic Ritual Abuse, 911, Hysteria?
Maybe not. See this link about the Presido.

Excerpts in the link:

...Tobins' son was examined at the Child Adolescent Sexual Abuse Referral Center (CASARC) at San Francisco General Hospital. CASARC reviews more than 700 cases of suspected sexual abuse every year. Among other things, the CASARC staff had often heard children describe anal rape as having a pencil put in their bottoms. When Dr. Kevin Coulter examined the Tobins' son, he observed that the child's anus dilated to approximately 20 millimeters in approximately five seconds, a much faster and wider dilation than normal. Coulter had conducted more than 300 examinations of children at CASARC. His conclusion was that such rapid and wide dilation was caused by trauma to the anus and rectum, consistent with penetration. The Tobins' 3-year-old son had been sexually abused, anally raped...

...There were five confirmed cases of Chlamydia, a sexually transmitted disease, including two of the four daughters of one family...

In the Boys Town case the Nebraska Senate investigator of the case called and said he had direct evidence. A farmer saw his plane explode and the plane and numerous photographs of child pornography floated down to Earth. Collected by the FBI and never seen again.

Maybe the children found in a van who when investigated had the investigation stopped by the CIA?

As for the UK's Jimmy Savile. His nephew said children as young as 10.

The same thing happened in Portugal, many places in the UK, Belgium

, France, etc...

911. You can claim conspiracy nut but not until you explain how building #7, which was not hit by a plane, fell at the acceleration rate of gravity.

The real reason many of you don't want to believe this is fear. Your nice world where you can vote and change things. Where you have some control and can guide your own lives is threatened by the truth. Just because you couldn't bring yourself to do some of these horrible things doesn't mean there aren't others who will. People who look at you like a crocodile looks at rabbits. Just meat. You say the King is wearing the finest clothes ever. I say he's naked.

Ray Sawhill said...

FWIW, from Wikipedia: "A 1996 investigation of more than 12,000 allegations of satanic, ritual and religious abuse resulted in no cases that were considered factual or corroborated."

Anonymous said...

FWIW, the Warren Commission concluded that LHO acted alone.

Anonymous said...

The novel, "The picture of Dorian Gray" by iconic homo, Oscar Wilde, captured the "gay" dilemma. The protagonist retained his youth, while his portrait aged. The portrait was of a blond, slender youth.
Homosexuality is a kind of narcissisum, and no one is more loathing of aging than a homosexual. Even most women are more philosophical and stoic about it.
Aside from the unhealthy physical practices (which women especially seem to be blithely unaware of; I'm a bit more informed having had a beloved but gay brother-in-law), I think this is why it seems wrong, somehow, even to the most tolerant.
I guess this applies to both genders, though lesbians do seem less narcissistic. More controlling of others though. Definitely that.

gloria said...

"Satanic Ritual Abuse, 911, Hysteria?

I'm not so sure the McMartin mess was "hysteria." While I've studied that case less than some other weird stories, it's not a closed case as far as I'm concerned. Like so many such scandals, the network leads all over the place. Even the MSM in England was forced to report on ominous connections to public figures surrounding the school shooting Scotland in 1996. And yes, it involved pedos.
The controlled media controlls the questions with a smack smack you conspiracy theorist. believe us or you die a humiliating death. Full stop.

911 hysteria? Two magic planes turned two of the tallest buildings on the planet to dust in, oh, a couple minutes with unburned papers fluttering to the ground, and we're not supposed to do a double take?

Some over-hyped concerns may be classed as "hysteria." "White racism" and "sexism" (at least in western countries) currently fall into that category. But don't let the media tell you what to think. In fact, there's more truth in thinking the opposite of what they promote.

Yes, and as another commenter noted, the Warren Commission, appointed by the man who most benefitted (immediately) from the assassination, and staffed with the dead president's mortal ennemies, concluded there was no reason for further investigation and LHO (Kennedy admirer & self-declared patsy) did it all by his lonesome.
well duh.
I long since ceased to place any credence in that evil giant squid, the mainstream media.