From the San Jose Mercury-News, a story on the wrench in the works of the Democratic super-majority in the California legislature's attempt to repeal Proposition 209.
Asian-American backlash: Measure restoring affirmative action on life support
By Katy Murphy and Jessica Calefati
SACRAMENTO -- A legislative push to permit California's public universities to once again consider race and ethnicity in admissions appears to be on life support after an intense backlash from Asian-American parents who fear it will make it harder for their children to get into good schools.
A planned referendum sailed through the state Senate in January without fanfare on a party-line vote, but three Asian-American Democrats who initially backed the measure are now calling for it to be "tabled" before the state Assembly has a chance to vote on it -- a highly unusual move. And it seems unlikely to get the two-thirds majority in the Assembly without the support of the five Asian-Americans in the lower house.
Over the last several weeks, the three senators who have had second thoughts about the referendum -- Leland Yee, D-San Francisco; Ted Lieu, D-Torrance; and Carol Liu, D- La Cañada/Flintridge -- said they have received thousands of calls and emails from fearful constituents who believe that any move to favor other ethnic groups could hurt Asian-Americans, who attend many of the state's best schools in large numbers. A Change.org petition to kill the referendum now has more than 100,000 signatures, and email listservs for Chinese-American parents have been flooded with angry posts.
Three days ago, the senators sent a formal letter to Assembly Speaker John Perez urging him to stop the bill from advancing any further. "As lifelong advocates for the Asian American and other communities, we would never support a policy that we believed would negatively impact our children," the letter states.
White politicians would have to come up with some principled argument framed in Kantian terms for why legislation intended to hurt white children is bad for everybody. Asians can't be bothered.
The future isn't going to be terribly idealistic.
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95 comments:
I am particularly pleased that it is Asian Democrats against NAM Democrats.
With any luck their party will blow up (starting in California) just like the Republican party.
Yes, indeed.
California is an interesting test-case since whites have already dwindled to a minority status of the population, and thus the power vacuum is up for grabs. Now, Asians in California have shown that they are not pushovers like whites are, and will fight in defense of their own group interest. As whites dwindle nationwide across the USA - and asians are likely to establish themselves as the new elite, this pattern will be seen nationally. As whites disappear, there will be no real impetus to maintain the legislated system of 'minority' racial preference across the USA. Thus more or less open conflict will ensue.
hope the asians win, for california's sake.
Fun fact: The only Asians I've met who support affirmative action resent whites so much they'd vote against our own self interests as long as they think there'll be less whites in college.
They all have their excuses, of course. But in the end it's 50% minority solidarity horsehit, 50% race treason.
I think the theory in leftist/labor parties was something like the following:
1. Non-whites and immigrants reliably vote left party.
2. Welfare recipients reliably vote left party.
3. Public servants reliably vote left party.
4. Single mothers vote left party.
5. Increase immigration/destroy opposition to immigration. Increase welfare. Create more government jobs. Lower the barriers to divorce. Doing this will amplify the ratio of left to right voters.
6. Parties of the right are marginalized, evolution to a one party state monopolized by the centre-left party, leftist utopia ensues.
This is a sort of spergy, McNamara-esque bean countery. Like most such thinking it ignores anything that can't be measured and as such has unintended consequences. It ignores the fact that the base of these leftist parties is rank and file employees, who are mostly honest, pay tax, and inhabit the middle to lower half of the bell curve.
By instituting these policies in order to get more votes easily rather than working for them, it bends over what used to be the base of the parties of the left and shafts them good and hard. Tax them to death to fund welfare and services for immigrants, criminals, fraudulent welfare recipients and public servants. Break up their families. They won't do anything about it. They are too stupid to realise what is going on anyway.
This is the logic behind it, this is the end result. So rather than a marxist, labor vs capital or left half vs right half of bell curve party alignment within a near 100% white state, you have an evolution to racial bloc voting within the multiracial state. The major leftist parties become victims of their own success, and their coalitions become unstable much like large atoms are stable. The repulsive forces start overwhelming the attractive forces. And we are seeing that now.
Even if whites are reduced to 10 percent the hustlers will still say:
Because, White Privilege.
This missing Malaysian airliner has demonstrated the weakness of the Malaysian ethnic diversity/inclusion policies in that country. The ethnic Malay ministers and their henchmen appear to be performing below their pay grade when trying to organize the search and communicate with the public. Preferences of Malay over Chinese or Indians for government service have given the Malaysian government a stench of incompetence in dealing with the crisis. They just don't look credible.
The future is more complex than we can imagine. I know plenty of second generation Asians who are more or less fully assimilated. East Asians seem to marry whites about 50% of the time, where as Indians seem happy to bring over their entire caste system to the U.S.
Neither group is likely to take over the country, given their lower birth rates and smaller numbers. Unless, of course, we throw open the floodgates and let anyone who wants to come in. Then, of course, there are three billion of them to worry about.
Meanwhile, they're certainly not natural allies of Hispanics, who are not natural allies of blacks.
Like I said, the future is interesting.
I wonder when the damn will break and white guys will cease playing the guilt ridden schmucks.
That ended for me a few years after college. Over time, I became quite vocal about refusing to play my assigned role. Really pissed people off, especially White Knight men. Still does piss them off.
I wish our Chinese-American elites would speak out more about China's support for that crazy fascist state, North Korea. It would be nice to hear criticism from doctors, tenured professors, etc., but once again, our Chinese-Americans can't be bothered. Is there no idealism in that culture?
Wrong link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/03/14/mccain-to-gop-get-your-priorities-straight/
Bow wow, good doggy
Simon in London said:
"Furthermore, the vast majority of whites - me included - will support fair policies that hurt our children, such as race-blind admissions that favour high-scoring east-Asians over lower scoring whites. Most whites don't object to 'affirmative action' racial discrimination because it hurts whites, but because it seems objectively unfair. Whites don't demand affirmative action/racial quotas etc even for their own benefit."
Maybe that is the problem.
Hmmm you are some kind of Lawyer or something in England right?
How exactly do you help the hobbits in the Shire? They have their own interests you know.
Maybe they should start pursuing them, regardless of what you, or people just like you who happen to subscribe to Marxist or some other vaguely left wing ideology, unlike yourself.
At the end of the day, whether you think Churchill was a hero or villain, socialism is holy or a destroying force, you drink the same wine and pursue the same policies.
What good do either one of you do for someone who lives in a small village, serves in the military, or works as a welder?
Not a lot of asabiyyah coming from you. Well you have your own cohort, even if circumstances make you think they aren't
A precious, ultra leftist young lady from Oxbridge who is absolutely furious over Putin and Pussy Riot, and the Palestinians, for example.
At the core you are the same. You like wine, vacations in Spain, and love to argue about the latest book in opaque, grand sounding terms.
And when the young lady is ready to "nest" and lay her eggs, she might well marry someone just like you, youthful politics notwithstanding.
It's the economics of it, and nice things you see, regardless of whether you are supposed to denounce materialism.
This is not an attack on you, or anything of the sort. It is rather a statement of fact, as I see things.
Or maybe you don't understand what tribalism is all about. Funny educated people from other countries do. Illiterate people from small villages in Bumfuck, Egypt do.
But you don't?
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/art-books/in-defence-of-heidegger/#.UyRVND9dVA1
Something similar might be happening with respect to the exam used for admission to New York's specialized high schools such as Stuyvesant. With the number of black and Hispanic students earning admission continuing to fall, the city is now mulling the idea of replacing the test-based admissions process with something that would take other factors into account and (hopefully) boost black and Hispanic enrollment. Whatever the new scheme might be, it would not be good news for Asians, who account for a wildly disproportionate share of students at the specialized schools.
Peter
Not that I am black but here is the black position. We blacks have been in this country for 400 years laboring and paying taxes. We fought in American wars. Who are these Asians to just parachute in here and take State University slots that should be going to Black children with multi-generational roots in the USA
****** The extreme parachute syndrome being when a Korean boy of 14 is sent here to live with relatives in California. To go to a public or private California high school thus qualifying for in-state tuition. Then gets the scores to get into the best publicly funded State Universities in California. Is this fair to any family, white black, Hispanic, Asian that has been paying taxes to California for 20-30-40-50-60 years? Whose grandparents have also paid California taxes. Where is their return on multi-generational investment?
"""The future isn't going to be terribly idealistic."""
True that, and as the Chinese proverb states 'May you live to see interesting times.'
And all of this occuring around the Ides of March.
The same things that make you live, will kill you in the end.
- Neil Young.
--------------------------
Of course Neil Young was kinda ugly guy. Lots of musicians are, if you haven't noticed.
The standard to apply is not jury of ones peers. Because in much of the US, that no longer exists. No longer even possible to create a juror on peers. So throw Kant under the bus. But how about the standard of the "average" juror. Think about about!
Anon 12.59 says that the current legislated system of racial preference is a "White" thing and as white power declines, the system will collapse.
But it may not. Whites will lead a coalition of brown ethnias (latinos, blacks, etc.) to limit Asian dominance. They will not allow the Asians to establish themselves as the new political elite, just as Indonesians, Malaysians, Thais did not allow it. A new equibilibrium will be built to the benefit of all. Conflict will not ensue.
The future isn't going to be terribly idealistic.
Steve-o, you are a Prophet.
caiyun:
They all have their excuses, of course. But in the end it's 50% minority solidarity horsehit, 50% race treason.
---------------------
It's not "horseshit". About 80% of Asian men and women are not politically fluent (which involves are high level of sexual/consumerist awareness). Doh! But it's clearly something they want to "get to know".
(And they would not be even in their native countries.)
Not a real slam against Asians because you will find similar percentages amongst other races. Though white America sexual selection pressures are pretty damn intense and make for good schooling in most things- political even. Though clearly LIMITED in its way as we are finding out!
It's fairly well known that Asians tend to have very little interest in politics, always being well underrepresented in most localities.
One of these reasons is that they are preoccupied with success for their children.
If there's one thing that might propel them into politics in larger numbers it would be exactly that preoccupation. And the precise focus of their interests would be Affirmative Action, which, more than any other policy, has great impact on the success of their children. In a sense, they are natural enemies of the Democratic Party as now constituted.
What is bizarre in a way is that Asian Democrats have managed to pretend so far that their community is on board with Affirmative Action. No doubt this has been because new Asian immigrants didn't really understand how the system works. That naivete seems now to be fading. My guess is that a new breed of Asian politicians will come to the fore in areas in which Asians are large segments of the population. They will not be friendly to the agenda of the Democratic Party, nor, generally, to that of the identity politics crowd.
And I suspect that not just Asian politicians, but Asian leaders in all settings will start to shift as their real interests as a group come into play. So far, Asians who have come up through the educational system have simply parroted the reigning identity politics ideology of that system. I see that changing.
"White politicians would have come up with..."
All Chinese parents think (and care that) they can get their kids into great schools.
Not so Whites.
lol
It's not much recompense for seeing your nations and civilization destroyed but a bit of schadenfreude whenever the people responsible stub their toe is better than nothing.
off-topic
That missing airliner: the Russians would be wise to put their southern border air defense on alert imo.
(Chinese also for more obvious reasons.)
The link goes to Ross Douthat's page, Steve.
"Anonymous said...
hope the asians win, for california's sake."
I don't. The asian minority consistently voted democrat for years. They are as much to blame for white disposession as any other ethnic group. And they did so motivated in no small part by resentment of whites. I say, screw 'em. I hope that hispanics bring counter-charges that they shouldn't be forced to pay taxes for chinese, japanese, and korean kids to go to college, instead of them. They should demand slots at California schools, ripped out of the hands of orientals.
They have all of them helped ensure that it is not MY state anymore, so f**k 'em all. Let it burn.
It's merely homeostatic equilibrium at work. With white bread white America (married families with children) in the state no longer a political force, ergo the Red Team is no longer a political force, the Blue Team does run everything, but by the same token KKKrazy Glue has lost its adhesiveness.
I expect the California Democrat Party to split into two pieces at some point in the near future, with the line of demarcation being in terms of wealth/income, IQ, SWPL-style social concern or some combination.
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023040983_greenwoodsuspectxml.html
Because the two emotions are of equal value. NOT.
Asians should call for AA in sports. That would lead to some comedy.
Great majority of Asians voted for Obama. Let them suffer.
Perhaps this is a public relations failure on their part, maybe they really should explain their opposition to racial discrimination in Kantian terms but you're on the same side. Maybe you can teach the Asians how to play this game better.
Yes, well, per the narrative Asians CANNOT BE RACIST because they're not WHITE. A good thing too, because being from Asia I can tell you that allegations of "racism" fly like the cooked goose there.
However, this is a GOOD THING, because I imagine in 10 or 20 years I will be able to take a comfortable flight to Uganda or Congo to feast on Beijing Duck without worrying about aggressive panhandling or being mugged now that China has started building businesses there. Of course they're also building airstrips. Airstrips long enough for the European Airbus, which is about the size of a Chinese Strategic Bomber. I imagine it will be very clean then, because have you seen Tienanmen Square? Not a drop of blood to be seen. ;)
Andrew Sullivan and Amy Chua defended the SAT and IQ tests against Salman Rushdie on Real Time with Bill Maher last night. You can Google the torrent file, if you don't have HBO or a television.
Yes.
If the blacks think they have it bad now under whitey's thumb, wait til Asians and Hispanics are making policy.
As a "Heritage" American I'll just sit back and laugh my ass off while the other races tear each other apart over their "fair share" of access to institutions that were created, built and financed by my ancestors.
Whitey has no dog in this fight. We lose either way. If we actually had some real political representation, we could cut a deal with the Asians: we'll support you on AA if you support us on immigration. Alas, won't happen.
It'll be interesting to see if Asians, as they Americanize (there's a word we don't see much anymore!), follow the Jewish model of assuming on their own heads the race guilt of long-ago unrelated white slaveholders and slave traders. Or maybe they won't, since there's much less prestige value to Americanizing in the 2010s than there was in the 1910s. Of course, if Asian-Americans become dominant and slide *back* to Asian political mores, that would have to be the nightmare scenario for the blacks (whether of the welfare-dependant class or the government functionary class).
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-age-of-individualism.html
Douthat is so wrong. Millennials are NOT individualistic. The age of individualism was from late 60s to early 70s when many young people--and older people--were forced to ask big questions about social changes, rights and wrongs, and meaning of life. This was before political correctness set in, when the boomer young were divided and fragmented along many lines and expressions.
Today's young may seem to care about freedom, but they are mostly 'free' in the same way. The fact that so many of them are for 'gay marriage' means they were brainwashed enmasse by PC education and mass culture of decadent hedonism. Being braindead fans of Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus is to be minions, not individuals. And notice that everyone is into selfies cuz it's the cool thing to do. It's instant conformism spread via twitter and facebook. At least in the 60s, young people tried new drugs to find themselves. Now, young people just wanna smoke weed to tune out and think/feel alike with everyone else. They are adrift in the same cloud.
They don't rebel against their professors but spout the same PC nonsense fed into their heads.
Millennials are globo-conformists. The rich ones are neo-aristocratic admirers of fancy 'gay' style. The less fortunate ones are minions glued to celebrity news on the internet and twittering about the same thing; they imitate he rich-hedonist 'gay' style. Not a single one has the guts or fortitude to have a real individual thought or emotion. It's minionism.
Black Americans are fleeing California -- if you believe the US Census data -- going back forty-years.
AA was crafted for Black Americans -- and no-one else.
With Barry, we're probably looking at Peak Black Political Influence... right now.
Latinos have ZERO racial guilt.
Asians have ZERO racial guilt.
At the margin -- see the OP -- the race card is dying a demographic death.
%%%
Of course, at best 1% of ancient Americans owned slaves. None now living benefited from slavery.
So even White Americans should have ZERO racial guilt. Heck, most of White America came to these shores after the Civil War.
The end of AA is in sight. It may just take a collapse of the national economy to achieve it, though.
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/15/how_did_irish_americans_get_so_disgusting/
Not as much as the Scotch-Irish.
Fun fact: The only Asians I've met who support affirmative action resent whites so much they'd vote against [Asian] self interests as long as they think there'll be less whites in college.
Lol. Good point, although I imagine they're a minority.
This White-resentment psychology also plays itself out in the mating marketplace. Here, this Asian chick (sort of) rails against White-Asian couples. While typically composed, she's unable to entirely conceal the visceral physiological response she undergoes when describing Asian moms push strollers containing mixed-white babies.
She then describes Hispanic-Asian
pairings (predictably and stereotypically frowned upon by Asian parents) and then gets to Black-Asian coupling...which happens to be her apparently near-exclusive personal preference, lol.
International Jew, how many rank and file Jews assume guilt for something that ended at least two decades before the majority of their ancestors started coming to America? It may be that the professional Jews in this country pay lip service to the concept as to avoid the ire of their black political allies, but I doubt the average Jew feels any more guilty than your average white Christian, or for that matter, any more guilty than recent Nigerian immigrants feel over the fact that their ancestors were the ones who actually captured and then sold the slaves.
too bad the east asians aren't going to get what they voted for. bring the hammer of affirmative action down on their heads. they asked for it. although i think this topic will be revisted again in the future in california, and they'll probably lose the next time. good. eliminate east asians from college. they voted for it. no a la carte democrat platform. no picking and choosing. vote democrat and get the whole meal.
interesting how only a couple dissenting votes are all it takes to sink the cultural marxist agenda. this is why the democrat party must move in lock step at the national level to accomplish it's goals. if there is even a moderate amount of dissention, like on the assault weapons ban, the alliance breaks down.
next time around, the cultural marxists might be more careful to bring up this law in some juridiction or on some panel where there are few east asians. the cultural marxists are smart, and learn how to get around barriers.
"California is an interesting test-case since whites have already dwindled to a minority status of the population, and thus the power vacuum is up for grabs."
that's the future of the democrat party, as pointed out regularly. many different groups with nothing in common except one thing. hatred of heterosexual european men. the sole thing which unifies them. once their enemy is gone, they will fracture.
"The only Asians I've met who support affirmative action resent whites so much they'd vote against our own self interests as long as they think there'll be less whites in college."
the same with africans. the africans who hate europeans hate them with such a burning passion that they'd rather vote against their own self interests as long as it hurts europeans more. it's the main reason why any republican outreach to them as voters is pointless.
"Whites don't demand affirmative action/racial quotas etc even for their own benefit."
i'd certainly like to see some, in areas where i'm 100% certain there is a deliberate, coordinated effort to reduce the number of europeans from an enterprise. heck yes, i'd strongly prefer to see explicit 'affirmative action' for europeans in some cases. quotas would be excellent. seeing europeans perform at a high level, and not being allowed, by law, to get rid of them, would cause cultural marxists great anguish.
of course that's all fantasy land stuff. the cultural marxists have won this battle in the US. even obvious examples of deliberate, coordinated elimination of capable europeans from various fields is not considered grounds for legal action.
it was alarming to discover this has made it's way over to the UK, where it seems certain the people who run UK track & field went out of their way to try to ruin richard kilty's career. they may yet succeed. we'll see how hard they continue try to make sure he doesn't perform at the levels he's capable of.
A lot of blacks, including the leftist activist types, have this strange idea that the increasing number of people of color somehow benefits them because it decreases the percentage of whites.
Boy are they in for a shock.
California will never be dominated by Hispanics because they vote in such low numbers and are concentrated in urban areas. White conservatives are only about 15% of the state's population, but they have veto power because so much requires a 2/3 majority, and they had this by themselves until recently. Now they don't, but have no trouble finding a couple disloyals dems on every issue.
Moreover, in the rare cases a Hispanic wins an important democratic primary, enough white dems desert the party so the Republican wins. This just happened in San Diego, where a hispanic democrat lost the mayor's race because he badly underperformed white democrat Bob Filner.
California recently switched to nonpartisan open primaries, which further weakens Hispanic political power because now registered Republicans can bloc vote for moderate white democrats in safe democratic seats.
"A lot of blacks, including the leftist activist types, have this strange idea that the increasing number of people of color somehow benefits them because it decreases the percentage of whites."
Everything has a plus and minus. The plus of more immigration is Democratic Party wins, and that is good for blacks since Dem victory means more gubment jobs for blacks. But they lose in other areas.
Said "large atoms are stable", meant to say "large atoms are unstable".
At the state level on economic issues, California continues to move right.
- Public university spending is down
- The old state funded welfare program, called General Assistance, was cut back then eliminated
- Other forms of direct aid to the elderly poor have been eliminated
- Every year, Prop 13 results in an effective property tax cut. The large and mostly white homeowners who purchased in the 70s and 80s often pay under $500 per year for houses worth 500,000 to $1 million.
- It is extremely hard to build "affordable housing" because of zoning laws, but easy to do tear downs of old working class houses in gentrified areas.
"Lies. Whites are no less self-interested than any other group. They're just better at self deception most of the time: White stance on merit changes when thinking about Asian-Americans."
Ha ha ha. I read the article.
You are full of it.
"Latinos have ZERO racial guilt.
Asians have ZERO racial guilt."
Latinos are funny in this way. The ones who should feel the most 'guilt' tend to make the most noise about 'racism'. I mean the conquistador-hispanics. They are always bitching about how they're the victims of big bad anglo yanqui.
As for Indio-Hispanics, they should be complaining the most since their ancestral lands were conquered and they were enslaved and even exterminated in many areas. And yet, the most amiable and friendly types of 'latinos' are often those with indio blood. They just wanna get along and mow your lawn.
As for Asians, they may not have 'white guilt', but they come from a shame culture, so they're deathly afraid of doing something that might be deemed shameful. Since 'racism' is sooooo shameful, most yellows try not to be 'racist'.
Also, even without guilt, there's a lot of 'compassion'. So, browns will say, 'negroes and we both suffered under white gringos'. So, yellows will say, 'yellows in the past were discriminated just like Jim Crow Negroes'.
Such mutual sense of victimhoo--'we are all 'people of color' victims of whites--will go a long ways for the foreseeable future... especially as it's encouraged by Eskimos in high places.
I'll bet all the browns and yellows who saw 12 Yrs a Slave will say, 'whites are evil, and we must sympathize with the negro!'
So, even without guilt, there can be sympathy and compassion for blacks and hatred for eeeeevil whites.
"The only Asians I've met who support affirmative action resent whites so much they'd vote against [Asian] self interests as long as they think there'll be less whites in college."
I'll bet the most resentful are the yellow males and they especially white guys who hold up signs like 'Asian women are a story of the bravery of love.'
An Anonymous wrote:
"They already got theirs and figure they must compromise with blacks and Hispanics in order to have good relations with future demographic heavyweights"
Is that true? About blacks I mean? I'm pretty sure they have positive population growth, but it isn't as high as Asian, and Hispanic in particular.
We seem to be in one of those epic waves of Asian (well Chinese immigration) akin to some of the waves of the past where Irish and Germans and whatnot came in.
Hispanics have the double whammy of high immigrant numbers, and a higher birthrate (think it is higher than the black birthrate).
I'd kind of expect the proportionate amount of voters to decline in the future, or at best remain the same.
What is particularly interesting is the changes to both parties that could occur, or perhaps even a third party emerging.
We'll have to see what happens. But is is easy to imagine scenarios where the large, solid black voting bloc is marginalized politically, with strong influence only in a number of southern states.
"At the state level on economic issues, California continues to move right."
lol. sounds like obama talking. california steadily moves to the left on every issue, including economics, yet we're told it's moving to the right. next up, there's no inflation, and deportations are at record highs.
"And they're either less sensitive or have tin ear for American cultural views.... that American like Asians least."
european men and east asian women can't wait to mate. i'm not convinced these two groups dislike each other the most. seems more like, they would actually merge into a eurasian puddle if left to percolate for a few decades. this is what's happening in canada in fact.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine an owl hooting, "who, whom - who, whom" forever.
>> sunbeam said...
Simon in London said:
"Furthermore, the vast majority of whites - me included - will support fair policies that hurt our children, such as race-blind admissions that favour high-scoring east-Asians over lower scoring whites. Most whites don't object to 'affirmative action' racial discrimination because it hurts whites, but because it seems objectively unfair. Whites don't demand affirmative action/racial quotas etc even for their own benefit."
Maybe that is the problem.
Hmmm you are some kind of Lawyer or something in England right?
How exactly do you help the hobbits in the Shire? They have their own interests you know.
Maybe they should start pursuing them, regardless of what you, or people just like you who happen to subscribe to Marxist or some other vaguely left wing ideology, unlike yourself.
At the end of the day, whether you think Churchill was a hero or villain, socialism is holy or a destroying force, you drink the same wine and pursue the same policies.
What good do either one of you do for someone who lives in a small village, serves in the military, or works as a welder?
Not a lot of asabiyyah coming from you. Well you have your own cohort, even if circumstances make you think they aren't
A precious, ultra leftist young lady from Oxbridge who is absolutely furious over Putin and Pussy Riot, and the Palestinians, for example.
At the core you are the same. You like wine, vacations in Spain, and love to argue about the latest book in opaque, grand sounding terms.
And when the young lady is ready to "nest" and lay her eggs, she might well marry someone just like you, youthful politics notwithstanding.
It's the economics of it, and nice things you see, regardless of whether you are supposed to denounce materialism.
This is not an attack on you, or anything of the sort. It is rather a statement of fact, as I see things.
Or maybe you don't understand what tribalism is all about. Funny educated people from other countries do. Illiterate people from small villages in Bumfuck, Egypt do.
But you don't?<<
Heh. I want to help the Shire hobbits (some of my relatives are Shire hobbits - though the ones of my generation are pretty SWPL-ised and now live in Switzerland, London, etc). I'm *not* saying that most whites' overwhelming obsession with fairness is right or good. It has its good side, but can easily become pathological. I'm saying it's a fact.
>> At the core you are the same. You like wine, vacations in Spain, and love to argue about the latest book in opaque, grand sounding terms.<<
Me? No. I like whisky (enjoying a Balvenie right now), chilly vacations in Scotland, and complicated ideas presented simply and directly (just been reading HBD chick's brilliant blog post on Manorialism as the source of Western exceptionalism).
>>Or maybe you don't understand what tribalism is all about.<<
I understand tribalism pretty well, being from Northern Ireland. Our NI tribes have (self granted) permission to defend their own interests. But my other tribe is the English, and they rarely grant themselves such permission. Someone needs to do that, or they'll go extinct: bad for them/us, bad for the world too.
"It is extremely hard to build "affordable housing" because of zoning laws"
Unless you happen to live in a white Republican area, in which case the state will dog you with lawsuit threats until you do.
Take it from someone who's had to live it.
Anonymous, did you intend to write "victimhoo"?
Because if you did, that was awesome.
Or maybe you don't understand what tribalism is all about. Funny educated people from other countries do. Illiterate people from small villages in Bumfuck, Egypt do.
That's the twisted thing about white anti-tribalism; it's a form of tribalism. Whites do have a racial identity, it's just a pathological one.
Not that I am black but here is the black position. We blacks have been in this country for 400 years laboring and paying taxes. We fought in American wars. Who are these Asians to just parachute in here and take State University slots that should be going to Black children with multi-generational roots in the USA
The biggest problem with that is that blacks are net tax recipients, in the aggregate, not tax payers.
It'll be interesting to see if Asians, as they Americanize (there's a word we don't see much anymore!), follow the Jewish model of assuming on their own heads the race guilt of long-ago unrelated white slaveholders and slave traders.
What a crock of shit. American Jews don't assume white guilt for slavery, they blame it on "those whites" and wield it as a weapon against them. They don't even acknowledge the Jewish prominence in the slave trade.
Everything has a plus and minus. The plus of more immigration is Democratic Party wins, and that is good for blacks since Dem victory means more gubment jobs for blacks. But they lose in other areas.
Bingo. Gibsmedat is the central rule of black politics. They don't really care much if they lose jobs or neighborhoods to Mexicans. They want bacon, and they aren't prone to much abstraction as to what constitutes "bacon." Gov't jobs and handouts, that's pretty much all they want. This explains why blacks don't give a fig about black political corruption, mestizo immigration, etc; the Party gives them bacon and that's all they care about.
The Asian Invasion, while not as vast as the Mexivasion, is going to be an order of magnitude more destructive to America.
@anon 5:04 AM
I think that's what the genuine (non-tribal) leftist / liberals thought they were doing - importing enough new voters to give their ideological caste a permanent majority.
Obviously what actually happens is once the numbers get above a certain point the immigrants don't need the white liberals any more and displace them.
They were conned too although most of them don't get it yet.
It doesn't help us though as this only happens **after** it's too late so anyone thinking it's more significant than schadenfreude are deluding themselves.
.
"It's fairly well known that Asians tend to have very little interest in politics, always being well underrepresented in most localities."
South and East Asians are totally different in this regard.
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"Let it burn."
Quite.
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zolf said...
"At the state level on economic issues, California continues to move right."
You sum up the GOP.
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on-topic
What will happen is Asians will complain about AA and YKW will figure out a way to take a slice of White admissions and give it to Asians to keep them happy.
That's what will happen. After the last 60 years I don't see how anybody could think different.
Obviously later when there's less spoils to go round there'll have to be a reckoning but that's not yet.
As whites dwindle nationwide across the USA - and asians are likely to establish themselves as the new elite, this pattern will be seen nationally. As whites disappear, there will be no real impetus to maintain the legislated system of 'minority' racial preference across the USA. Thus more or less open conflict will ensue.
>> Recall that a century ago in the Philippines, they malayans were still doing the periodic murderous pogrom against Chinese men,women, and childre; in Muslim Indonesia, it wasonly decades ago.
On the other hand, not many second or third generation American Asians still conduct their daily lives in their own ethnic language. And they do have this 50% intermarriage rate wih whites.
>> I wish our Chinese-American elites would speak out more about China's support for that crazy fascist state, North Korea. It would be nice to hear criticism from doctors, tenured professors
those who comprehend that Ukraine is Russia's backyard, should remember that Korea is China's. It is USA which is half the globe away....
Everything has a plus and minus. The plus of more immigration is Democratic Party wins, and that is good for blacks since Dem victory means more gubment jobs for blacks. But they lose in other areas.
Not for long at some point even these jobs will be snatched from Black Americans. There was an article in the Washington Post not too long ago about an increased effort to get Hispanics into the federal government.
Black Americans aren't that adept in playing politics to leverage gains for their community as other groups. Immigration should be one area that Blacks should be able to cross party lines and voice displeasure. Yet the CBC actually trips over itself to sponsor amnesty bills.
Blacks will lose when the dust settles.
european men and east asian women can't wait to mate. i'm not convinced these two groups dislike each other the most. seems more like, they would actually merge into a eurasian puddle if left to percolate for a few decades. this is what's happening in canada in fact.
These two races have a lot of practice at this already if you look at the demographic sweep from western europe to east asia. There is never a clear break point (white people end here, east asians start here), just a slow morphing of one phenotype to the other.
Anecdotally, I've generally found it easiest (and observed this in others) to establish comraderie, or lack of racial issues, with east asians as compared to other cross-racial interactions. Sometimes it even seems one can actually have moments where there is no racial 800 lb gorilla in the room.
This applies to non-immigrant east asians in their homelands as well. That being said, I've recently noticed a spike in militancy/identity/grievance among young, born-here Korean-Americans.
"nooffensebut said...
Andrew Sullivan and Amy Chua defended the SAT and IQ tests against Salman Rushdie on Real Time with Bill Maher last night. You can Google the torrent file, if you don't have HBO or a television."
I wouldn't tune into Real Time with Bill Maher unless it featured Bill Maher locked in a cage with a polar bear.
"Anonymous said...
So, even without guilt, there can be sympathy and compassion for blacks and hatred for eeeeevil whites."
Yeah, until they move into your neighborhood, beat up your sons, and try to put the moves on your daughters. Then we will see what mexicans and chinese really think of blacks. I think we already have some idea of how that will go.
Blacks will lose when the dust settles.
Blacks will be back where they were in the 1880's when the dust settles.
Jody wrote: "european men and east asian women can't wait to mate. i'm not convinced these two groups dislike each other the most. seems more like, they would actually merge into a eurasian puddle if left to percolate for a few decades. this is what's happening in canada in fact."
To some extent this is true. Though going by the data Canada seems to be following the UK more so than the US when it comes to mixed unions. The Japanese, followed by Latin Americans and blacks are the most likely to out marry. The Chinese and South Asians are least likely. Generally the pattern seems to be lower class white more likely to be with blacks here, and upper class whites more likely to go with east Asians. But I would say lower class whites have embraced it more, at least when it comes to cohabitation.
"That being said, I've recently noticed a spike in militancy/identity/grievance among young, born-here Korean-Americans."
That doesn't surprise me one bit. There is a cultural phenomenon among Koreans that seems to apply to them exclusively: the concept of "Han". It's very difficult to describe. An overbearing sense that an injustice has been done and can never be corrected, gnawing on your soul like an itch that can't be scratched. Or maybe "unrequited vengeance" is a good description. Ah, heck, here's the Wikipedia page: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_(cultural)
Back on point, I would imagine that grievance-mongering would be something that comes more naturally to Koreans than other Asians.
"At the state level on economic issues, California continues to move right"
That's correct. Real wages are lower except for the elites.
Maybe there should be a distinction between "economic" right and other varieties of right. By your measure we'll be in a rightist paradise when we're all eating "beans a la Caplan".
I'm gonna have to get behind my African-American Brothers on this one. [I'm white and so far right I'm moving left]. I can understand and have adjusted to the Brothers attitude. I can't adjust to the Asians arriving off the plane demanding their rights and that I owe them. I owe them whitey's hard hand, overdue. I can handle the Bros. I can't handle Amy Chua or Anil Dash.
Not to mention over time you advance by merit not degree.
Black Power!! Black Power!!
But what about the Mexicans? Well..hmm.. MS13>Anil Dash. yep. That's right. I can respect one, not the other.
[I know where MS13 is from].
PS - if yer a pussy yes the entire world walks over you. Stop blamin da black man. Or indeed anyone but yourselves. I'm not a pussy and I'm white. I clearly seem to be exactly the minority.
Black Power!!
White Power!!
Vatos Power!!
As long as it's American power. No Chua, your're not.
VXXC
I know "we're doomed" is standard reaction to demographic talk but I think that a much more likely outcome is ethnic purges and "me and my cousin against the outsider" style grievance settling. Think Yugoslavia on steroids. Where the chips fall after that no one knows, but I doubt the status quo survives.
"Lies. Whites are no less self-interested than any other group." - If we were just as self-interested as every other group we'd have reserved our institutions for our own.
All I gotta say is everyone is sure going to be sorry that they've swapped the traditional WASP leadership of the U.S. for what they've got now.
And this changeover makes no sense at all, since the reason the U.S. was such a magnet for others was specifically the system set up by the WASPs. Dumbf*cks, every one of them, they are all going to deserve what is definitely well on its way to being delivered.
"european men and east asian women can't wait to mate. i'm not convinced these two groups dislike each other the most. seems more like, they would actually merge into a eurasian puddle if left to percolate for a few decades. this is what's happening in canada in fact." - Does the same apply to black males and white females?
Don't over sell it, there will be whites who prefer to have white children(90+% of them), and this number will rise, as outmarriage removes so inlined people from the population.
Last night at restaurant in SF Cow Hollow neighborhood, table next to us had two 60-something white guys with 40-ish asian wives - Jewish guy with a hot Susie Wong type, big Irish guy with fat ugly girl right out of M.A.S.H. The Jews always win.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_(cultural)
The reappearance of National Enemy Apolo Anton Ohno as a color commentator on the Winter Olympic speedskating broadcasts probably aggravated feelings of han.
LGBT.
Is it like KFC? Since 'fried' become unfashionable, Kentucky Fried Chicken became 'KFC'.
Since stuff like bisexual, trans, lesbian, etc. sound sort of icky, why not put them under LGBT?
So the America of 2050 won't be a idyllic multicultural utopia straight out of a Coca-Cola commercial?
Who could have imagined?
"I know "we're doomed" is standard reaction to demographic talk but I think that a much more likely outcome is ethnic purges and "me and my cousin against the outsider" style grievance settling. Think Yugoslavia on steroids. Where the chips fall after that no one knows, but I doubt the status quo survives."
No, I see Brazil. Lots of diversity there but sticking together.
US isn't like Yugoslavia where various ethnic groups had deep connection to their ancestral lands--almost like a religion.
And communism didn't get rid of those feelings. (But it seems like EU globalism has severed Western Europeans from their own lands. So many people don't care if they become minorities in lands of their ancestors.)
As most people have shallow roots in America and since new America is defined by immigrationism, there's little chance of people making a last stand like the Indians once did. People will just move to greener pastures as this is a big country.
"Han is a concept in Korean culture attributed as a unique Korean cultural trait. Han denotes a collective feeling of oppression and isolation in the face of overwhelming odds. It connotes aspects of lament and unavenged injustice. The minjung theologian Suh Nam-dong describes han as a "feeling of unresolved resentment against injustices suffered, a sense of helplessness because of the overwhelming odds against one, a feeling of acute pain in one's guts and bowels, making the whole body writhe and squirm, and an obstinate urge to take revenge and to right the wrong—all these combined."
If Koreans had any wits, they'd be funnier than Jews.
About Han.
Lot of nonsense about this concept.
Also the idea that Korea's been attacked a lot over the years, not true.
This idea of Han is completely new to me and I've known thousands of Koreans.
Sounds like Jew projection on Wikipedia. Or some variation of etnic/race projection etc. Who knows- some Irish bullet-head?
Very mean-spirited.
N. Korea is nasty. But then when you look at Korea's history they have great pride in being independent actors. Not without great justification, you motley cows.
"I can understand and have adjusted to the Brothers attitude. I can't adjust to the Asians arriving off the plane demanding their rights and that I owe them. I owe them whitey's hard hand, overdue. I can handle the Bros. I can't handle Amy Chua or Anil Dash."
Mebbe you have a point. Regression to the bean is bad enough. But does it have to be regression to the soybean?
Tofu makes you fruity.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soybean-fertility-hormone-isoflavones-genistein/
"This idea of Han is completely new to me and I've known thousands of Koreans. Sounds like Jew projection on Wikipedia. Or some variation of etnic/race projection etc. Who knows- some Irish bullet-head?"
Have you seen Korean movies or idiot Korean behavior during the Olympics?
Makes sense to me. Them folks torture and eat dogs while boo hoo hoo, bitching about how no one wuvs them.
If Koreans had any wits, they'd be funnier than Jews.
------------
Check out "Infinity Challenge" on Youtube. Funny as F+ck. I'd argue the funniest sh+t on Earth 2014 is coming out of Korea. Korean Komedy could be the next big thing out of Korea. I sh+t you not.
Sad fact for the Jews- they must make people laugh for their living (albeit rich), but still.
Koreans are funny in context. No effort expended beyond natural audience. Don't pre-judge, grasshopper.
BTW, what's with the explosion of Anon posters on this blog? Show yourselves, cowards.
Colonel Kilgore wiped out an entire Vietnamese village just to go surfing.
That was just a movie.
Seeing Malay government officials attempting to answer questions about the missing aircraft reminded me that many Asians are already familiar with "affirmative action" systems in other countries. In Malaysia the Malay bumiputra ("sons of the soil") are favored over the Chinese and Indians. Although I knew about that, it wasn't until I saw those press conferences that I understood what cementheads they actually are.
It gets worse. The Danes have an obsession with the North Koreans. It's a completely bizarre cultural crossover. Two Peninsulars at either end of the Eurasian land mass, one is a socialist paradise and the other is a paradise of socialism.
How did that differ from Chertof? Or wolfowitz after 9/11?
>> bumiputra ..... what cementheads they actually are
In Singlish: Chinese own the bus; Indian drive the bus; Malay wash the bus.
If you want to see the REAL Singapore, don't hang out on Orchard Street. Ride the MRT for 30 minutes to Sembawang station or Woodlands station, then walk around.
In Singapore, Malays are the core group of the working middle class. Also, lots of cops and fire men (known as "Civil Defense" battalions.
Actual heavy labor is done by guest workers. Bangladeshis predominate construction.
It is in these kinds of neighborhoods that one sees the conscripted kids walking a beat for their 2 years of National Service as a cop. Not many foreigners or tourists around to blab to the newspapers; so, for example: if you talk shit to a 19-year old conscript cop who's handcuffing you for shoplifting, your GONNA receive some attitude-adjustment at the hands of his nightstick.
"BTW, what's with the explosion of Anon posters on this blog? Show yourselves, cowards."
Cowardice has nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of convenience. I don't feel like signing up for a Google+ account, I don't feel like becoming a member of Wordpress or whatever TF those other sites are, and I don't want to cut and paste my smart phone's URL every time I want to post (assuming I can even do that). I'm no coward; at worst I'm lazy or computer illiterate. For what it's worth, I used to post under the handle "Hapalong Cassidy" (I'm half-white/half-Korean). I'm also the anonymous who wrote the original post about "Han".
"Han is a concept in Korean culture attributed as a unique Korean cultural trait... a 'feeling of unresolved resentment against injustices suffered, a sense of helplessness...a feeling of acute pain in one's guts and bowels, making the whole body writhe and squirm, and an obstinate urge to take revenge and to right the wrong...'"
I thought we all felt this way all the time.
An overbearing sense that an injustice has been done and can never be corrected, gnawing on your soul like an itch that can't be scratched. Or maybe "unrequited vengeance" is a good description....
Back on point, I would imagine that grievance-mongering would be something that comes more naturally to Koreans than other Asians.
"This idea of Han is completely new to me and I've known thousands of Koreans. Sounds like Jew projection on Wikipedia."
Asian cultures, for all that their people are humble, tend to be ridiculously vengeful and touchy compared to Europeans. Look at all their bullshit silly vengeful dramas.
No instinct for self promotion, except when mummy and daddy tell you to, lots of bullshit defensiveness and passive aggression.
Han sounds like a thing a thing like that - dwelling on your misfortunes and trespasses against you. Unforgiveness, with a non-confrontational personality.
Jews? I imagine they'd interpret it through their own ethno-centric lens.
The Koreans on Anthony Bourdain's show seemed to believe in it anyhow.
Grievance mongering probably comes rather natural to East Asians.
They do believe in being humble, so often tend not to speak up or break the law out of greed, but their humbleness includes subservience to their family (and extended ethnic family) so nepotism and corruption and their naturally vengeful tendencies cause them to have a lot of grievances.
"Cowardice has nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of convenience. I don't feel like signing up for a Google+ account, I don't feel like becoming a member of Wordpress or whatever TF those other sites are, and I don't want to cut and paste my smart phone's URL every time I want to post..."
1. Write comment
2. Scroll down to "Choose an identity".
3. Click Name/URL button
4. If you don't want to use your real name, invent one (this must be the really hard part that's tripping up all the high-IQ anonymous posters here) and type it into the field labeled "Name".*
5. Click "Preview" or "Publish Your Comment".
*That "(optional)" in the URL field means you don't have to put in a URL, and no, clicking "Anonymous" rather than making up a pseudonym will not shield you from the eye of Sauron.
Or maybe it's just Google honoring my White Privilege, and you really do have to go through all the rigmarole you listed to post here as one more annoyingly indistinguishable anonymous.
"email listservs for Chinese-American parents have been flooded with angry posts"
I think I have a pretty good idea about the contents of those posts, and I'm pretty sure some excerpts would have ended up in this article if they were written by white people.
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