From Dice:
H-1B Women Few and Far Between
BY DAWN KAWAMOTO | JUN 25, 2013
Immigration reform proposals are circulating at a furious pace on Capital Hill, but it’s unlikely they will lead to a sea change in a rarely thought of area of the guest worker debate: The number of women in IT who work in this country under an H-1B visa.
Even though the percentage of women in IT is higher in many of the home countries of H-1B workers, currently, the vast majority of IT H-1Bs are men. And there’s nothing in the bill now making its way through the Senate that aims to realign the ratio of women-to-men guest workers to align more closely with that of the domestic workforce.
... While hard figures are difficult to come by on the number of H-1B visas awarded to women, some estimates put the number at just 15 percent, says Karen Panetta, Vice President of Communications and Public Awareness for IEEE and an Electrical and Computer Engineering Professor at Tufts University.
From Medill Reports last June:
Karen Panetta is a professor of electrical and computer engineering at Tufts University in Medford, Mass. She also is editor-in-chief of the award-winning Women In Engineering magazine, which is published by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers trade association. ...
And Panetta believes that the H-1B is a contributing factor to the disparity in the male-to-female ratio.
In written testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 18, she described the gender imbalance.
“The IEEE-USA represents more American high tech workers than anybody else, so we have sources,” Panetta said. “One from inside the industry, looking at the off shoring companies that dominate the H-1B program, is that their global hiring is 70 percent men. But in the U.S., where outsourcing companies get more than half the capped H-1B visas, the ratio is more like 85 percent men. That's outrageous.”
Panetta believes that this trend creates work environments that may be unfavorable to women, based on a set of imported cultural values that don’t emphasize the importance of gender equality at work.
“They have a negative effect, not only on the H-1B process for women, but for American women who have to then work in these environments, with these individuals who come from cultures where women are not treated equally and women are not respected in the workplace,” Panetta argues. “That’s a huge issue and American women won’t tolerate it. They’ll just quit. After the age of 35 the drop off and attrition of women in STEM fields essentially falls to the floor. People think it’s because they go off and have families, it’s not.”
My wife's friend A. is a programmer in the Midwest. It was a good work environment until the big corporation she worked for started importing lots of Pakistani men, with predictable consequences for blonde American women.
... Panetta understands she needs data to back up her assertions. The problem is that these numbers are not available to the public.
Despite the fact that gender is a data point on the required I-129 visa application form, neither the Department of Homeland Security nor the U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services tracks the number of men and women being awarded these visas.
Bill Wright, spokesperson for U.S. Citizen and Immigration Services, confirmed that the government has the information but is not capturing it.
“There is a space for gender on Part 3 of the Petition for a Nonimmigrant Worker (Form I-129),” Wright said. “However, that particular category is not electronically captured in a manner that we can readily provide. You could certainly request this information via the Freedom of Information Act; that would require a manual check of each petition filed and I can’t estimate how long that would take.”
Since nobody in America can figure out how to program a computer to count the sex ratio of H1-B tech visas, that just proves that Zuckerberg and Gates are right and deserve lots more H1-Bs. Maybe someday we'll import enough H1-Bs to figure out how to count H1-Bs.
In fact, multiple parties have made FOIA requests. Because the form is electronic it should be relatively easy to pull out the data.
“I can get them a freshman in college from Tufts University to show them how to use it,” Panetta said. “They have the data; it’s a matter of them running a query and then tallying it up.”
We need a system like Pokemon Points to figure out who outranks whom in modern America. Clearly, American women programmers don't swing a lot of weight considering how little media coverage there has been of this issue.
It appears the points go something like:
Women: +10
American women: +2
Workers: 0
American workers: -8
American workers: -8
Diversity!: 20
Billionaires: 20
Billionaires Pushing Diversity!: 400
Posts
49 comments:
H-1B Women Few and Far Between
I worked with a couple of Indian women in the mid-90's. They warmed their seats -- not much else (the males were little better). One of the Indian women did the most ridiculous things in her code that I've ever seen (like putting huge data structs on the stack and then being surprised later when the code crashed). That was the time I started to wonder what kind of bullshit was being peddled in the media about the need for them. Easily the worst technical people I've worked with were foreigners. By far. Without exception. Generally American women -- I worked with a few of those, too -- were at least as good, if not better, than the foreign men. So I agree that tapping American women -- those with enough interest -- is something to think about.
Speaking of women in Silicon Valley, a few of them have found a new reporter to give them free publicity: Alicia Menendez (daughter of Sen. Menendez).
So as one of those programmers who's supposedly going to be out of work, I have to argue the other side of the H1-B thingy since you seem to be ragging on it so much.
Programmers are fungible. I mean, there's definitely advantages to being in the Valley, the Valley wouldn't exist if there weren't, but when our servers are in Virginia, and ssh is a thing, you can put programmers anywhere.
The local Plumber/Electrician/et al isn't directly competing with Ragesh in Mumbai except in the loosest of senses. I AM.
So with that said, I'd totally prefer to bring Ragesh here and stick him in our nice little "F*ck you" real estate market.
Because when he's not quite starving to death on $50K/year in SF instead of living large in Mumbai on $15K/year, it's a lot easier for me to ask for $100K (Especially since I've heard the stories. Uh yes, I'm easily worth double the average Fobbit because I don't walk away with other employees laptops and sell them on Ebay. NO JOKE). Makes the real estate market (and the traffic) slightly more "F*ck you", but way less than the wage pressure from Mumbai.
And meanwhile... Look, average Fobbit sucks (Seriously, those stories). Exceptional Fobbit is exceptional. And if we keep getting those 1 in 100 - 1 in 1000, and stealing them from India, well, *shrug*. How long do you think Silicon Valley stays better than India? My boss, the CEO of our startup and the guy who just made me more in a week than I made in the last DECADE*, was one of them.
And in the meantime, it's not like we're starving to death here. I'm undermarket (startup) and make more at 22 than my parents combine at in their late 50's. Sure, F*ck you real estate market running into stupid levels of taxes, but that just means I live in a bad apartment and spend a lot of money on doing fun things (And paying down my various debts really fast. Nice thing about expensive places is that $40K just isn't that much money. At this rate, I'll be home free in 2 years after leaving college).
And of course, there's the nice general effects. Their kids are bright and assimilated and will pay lots of taxes someday. And meanwhile, with all those extra people, the local plumbers/teachers/etc actually have customers.
Wish we had a few less NIMBY's, and the entire region could use a nice $40 Billion infrastructure redo because we're at the point where cars stop working and the transit is incredibly slow AND high-headway, but if you're honestly THAT good, or you can get an in with people who are actually that good and just tag along every-time their company gets acquired (raises hand), it's basically the place to be for high-level programmers.
*Funny Story. You make more off a failed startup as an employee than a successful one. The difference between being one of 10 acqui-hired employees and owning a 1/1000th share of the company (pre-several rounds of dilution).
Re anon's comment, venture capitalist and comp sci PhD Albert Wenger said recently that he estimates salaries for comp sci grads have gone up 50% over the last 10 years. Granted, they might have gone up more without the foreign competition, but if programmers aren't complaining about it...
Weirdness. The women of NYT are worries about prejudice against female aliens in the American workplace? Heck, I have a good solution! Fire all the undeserving privileged American white guys and hire Indian chicks until the number of Indian chick H1Bs equals the number of Indian dude H1Bs! Only then will we have true alien diversity!
(like putting huge data structs on the stack and then being surprised later when the code crashed
Well, there is nothing wrong with huge data structs on the stack if you are working in user space, unless you return a pointer to that struct.
Of course, in the kernel, you don't want to put large structs on the stack.
Is the male/female ratio that extreme? I've worked in more than a few places and while it's certainly more male, there always seems to be a decent contingent of Indian women. Some Chinese women as well.
Indian women are sort of soul destroying in their unattractiveness. And it's kind of funny to see one get angry. They get very unhinged, like a lot of Asians seem to do. But then, so do white people in these sad days.
The worst smelling person I ever came across was an Indian woman who managed a testing team (a lot of the women get hired for test rather than dev -- often the wives of devs). I swear, I've had to smell urine soaked bums on the New York subway, and they didn't smell half as bad as this woman. It was torture to have a conversation with her. Your eyes would water, your nose would sting. It was astonishing. And funny thing is she was actually better looking than 80% of Indian women. But oh. my. god. what a stench.
Let women say and do what they will, the fact remains: men, not women, have made the important contributions in science and art and technology and philosophy--here and elsewhere, and now as before; to these great productive enterprises, women have contributed little.
And so will it always be.
That many women, in our day, believe otherwise, and act on that belief, speaks poorly of their understanding and their character, and makes of them a real nuisance.
" And if we keep getting those 1 in 100 - 1 in 1000, and stealing them from India, well, *shrug*. How long do you think Silicon Valley stays better than India?"
Excuse me, but how long do you think it will stay as you are decribing? There will be an ever increasing acceleration of immigration because the diaspra being created means progressively less able and less well off Indians can afford to immigrate. And wages will fall along with property values in the area where they work and live.
It is only the super rich who benefit, and the super rich are actually quite good at taking care of their business.
Wait so you're telling me that there's a program where someone can come on an uncertain contract that could end at any time to make higher wages than they could at home to send the money back, AND that it's mostly men who are taking a contract like that?
What a historically unique pattern. I'm sure this has never happened before in the entire history of the world.
It is funny that this article is out because today's tech headlines is about a Indian CEO Gurbaksh "G" Chahal who beat a girl 117 times in 30 minutes including trying to smother her and all he got was a few hours of community service
http://valleywag.gawker.com/tech-ceo-dodges-felony-charge-despite-horrifying-abuse-1566515135
There was a videotape of the actual beating from the Indian guy's survillance but because the police obtained it without a warrant, the liberal SF judge threw it out. The police argued they were afraid the tape would be erased if they waited for a warrant which the judge obviously disagreed with. As if a tech CEO wouldnt have the knowledge on how to erase the evidence ...
Off topic - a bryan caplan post takedown.
http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.in/2014/04/assume-can-opener.html
i know that tyler cowen make be an aspie. i wonder what kind of stupid you use for an intelligent, educated (over) man like caplan, who hasn't even run a damn teashop in his life.
it's just sad steve.
We know that docile liberals read Mr Sailer because of the comments they post as anonymous. But do they learn anything while they're here? Orwell's point was that the best way to prevent someone from thinking something is to convince him he's not allowed to think it while simultaneously preventing him from knowing he's not allowed to think it. For example, liberals are allowed to think Pakistani men mistreat Pakistani women, and they are allowed to think women are mistreated in the tech industry. They are not allowed to think that Pakistani men mistreat women in the tech industry.
he estimates salaries for comp sci grads have gone up 50% over the last 10 years.
That's why they're pushing so hard for immigration, H1-Bs, and women programmers.
Re anon's comment, venture capitalist and comp sci PhD Albert Wenger said recently that he estimates salaries for comp sci grads have gone up 50% over the last 10 years.
Computer programming salaries are flat to down over the last 10 years.
Graph here.
Want to get this in:Remember the U of California Provost shemale who jumped to his-her her death from the administration building? Well,Steve I'm sure you do. Do some googling and what you will find is this:Provost Shemale's girl friend-partner-wife is an elite U of C professor of engineering working hand-in-hand with BIG TECH to turn the educational and technolgical infrastructure of Califirnia over to the Chinese.
But aren't the Chinese kind of socially and culturally conservative? What is the endgame for White Liberals in Califirnia?
Bill Blizzard and his Men
Forgot this..you want might to have a look at Samuel Gompers' testimony before Congress in support of the Chinese Exclusion Act.
Granted, they might have gone up more without the foreign competition, but if programmers aren't complaining about it...
Programmers aren't complaining about it? What about the programmers who are out of jobs? What about the U.S. citizens who would have become programmers if there had been more jobs awaiting them, or jobs at higher salaries?
And of course, there's the nice general effects.
No.
Their kids are bright and assimilated and will pay lots of taxes someday.
Their "bright kids" eventually displace our own from the top grades, the universities, and the highest paying jobs.
And meanwhile, with all those extra people, the local plumbers/teachers/etc actually have customers.
And, eventually, more "plumbers/teachers/etc" to compete with for those customers.
Meanwhile, real estate and other hard asset prices are driven up, congestion worsens, Mother Nature takes on an additional burden, and the voting power of current citizens is diluted.
This is not a win-win.
someone should write an article telling these women to get over their white privilege that white men have had to adjust to minority cultures displacing their own imperialist values in the workplace for decades and now women should shoulder their half of the white persons burden
I can't look in my dozens (hundreds?) of software development books because I threw them out two years ago. There has always been a lot of concern about software quality, and that has led to a lot of books on managing programmers. But I don't remember any books about females in programming. Probably because they are so rare. I've never heard of a problem with the sex ratio of H1-B visa holders either.
I used to be the only American on the eighth floor (the floor where the all the programmers worked) of a software development company. All of the programmers, as far as I remember, were H1-B visa holders. All of them were Russian or Ukrainian.
As it happens my best and longest friend was the H1-B visa guru at the San Francisco federal office for the Department of Labor. They covered Silicon Valley too.
Donald used to ask me questions about programmers and technical stuff. He knew nothing about computers. But he still knew more than anyone else at the Labor Department. I knew a lot of the bureaucrats who worked there. It wasn't exactly a gathering of eagles.
Donald asked me a lot of stupid questions but at least he was asking questions. That was quite unusual for long term feds.
One thing that I have never seen reported is the greater job security that H1-B holders have. I have always been good at firing deadwood. But although you would think that you would have more control over a bad coder because you could literally send him back to Russia, in fact that's such a horrible prospect that no one has the stomach for it. We had many brilliant guys from Russia and Ukraine but also some real duds with whom I was forever stuck. Had they been regular employees they would have been out the door.
Personally I am quite extreme about illegal immigration. I'm not moderate and balanced in my opposition like our host Steve. I want to save the whales by canning illegals for pet food.
But I don't have much trouble with H1-B visa people. After the first generation of brilliant coders we are likely to have a second generation who have 'regressed to the mean'. They will only be good coders.
But the second generation of Mexicans and Mayans will still be welfare recipients. They will be regressing toward the mean from the left hand side of the distribution.
The H1-B visa scheme nets out to a 'brain drain' strategy. I don't care if Bill Gates benefits from the first generation, The whole country benefits in subsequent generations. This is just about the only governmental program that is eugenic.
Albertosaurus
Female programers leaving the field at age 35 and not to just have a family? Wonder why?
Before the H1-B, companies recognized a financial interest to maximize programmer productivity, and at least the best employers made an attempt to do so. The issue of programmer productivity was so widely acknowledged that numerous widely read books were written on the subject. One of the better known was the brief gem "Peopleware(1987,1999)" by Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister. DeMarco and Lister argued that there was considerable room for relatively painless programmer productivity gains per hour worked at most companies. That by splitting the benefits of productivity gains between employer and employee both would prosper and the higher wages would guarantee future generations of STEM workers.
It is really hard to believe that Mike Judge wrote "Office Space" from just his own experiences as a programmer and with out being aware of some of insights from "Peopleware". That famous scene from Office Space where Peter Gibbons takes it upon himself to dismantle his window blocking cubicle partition as act of rebellion against his company's phony egalitarian policy that since offices' with windows conveyed status, nobody should have a window, well it comes straight from "Peopleware".
Women have left IT in droves because the idea of now working 50-60 hours a week with a 1 hour commute in order to get less than 35 actual hours of work done so to get payed for 25 or less all the while being surrounded by under socialized, under sexed if not downright creepy men is not as remotely psychologically rewarding as being a parent or virtually anything else.
The H1-B is all about doing less with more while paying everybody lower wages so that the demand for and the size of the public labor subsidy for corporate American can only grow indefinitely. It is the inverse of Samuelson supply and demand labor economics.
And with any foreign labor subsidy the first question should be "Cui Bono?"
We know it's not American workers, male or female.
I work in a large state revenue department. It seems we get more subcontinent workers every month, in the accounting section mostly. And 9 out of 10 are male. And many of my American friends and relatives are unemployed. Makes no sense. Reading the news about the Indian Muslim politician who says women should be hung for letting themselves be raped, I do wonder if real chickens are zeroing in on US tech installations, claws sharpened.
Off topic: have any of you seen this future online course:
https://www.coursera.org/course/behavioralgenetics
it looks like it's gonna be a relatively balanced view on the issue of human genetics
These quasi feminists looking for ego affirmation with their stupid crusade to get more female computer programers. They are so stupid they cannot see that the male brain is much more science and engineering oriented. I am sick of these illogical loudmouths. Of course there are women with some good science minds...Just a lot fewer than among men.
BTW Larry Summers put Harvard into tremendous debt with an out of control building program back in the pre-2007 bubble era. He was not ousted only due to his remarks about women not being well suited for science
until the big corporation she worked for started importing lots of Pakistani men
Half of Bangalore seems to be in my county today (Fairfax, VA), but we're talking Indians here. I rarely, if ever, run into Pakistanis. Are they big players in the H1-B scene? I was not aware that Pakistan had the huge feeder programs for IT that India obviously has.
I am, of course, strongly opposed to mass immigration, but I must admit that local plumbers, HVAC techs, car mechanics and such (many of who are downscale whites) often make $100K or more a year, thanks to the enormous amount of work due to the growth (and because most affluent South Asians seem not to know how to take care of houses and cars and are happy to pay others to do so).
There are some grumblings from the natives about the foreigners, of course, but most seem pretty happy with the bigger piggy banks.
Several of my house contractors are white guys who farm and do very profitable trades work on the side. They are very thankful for the latter because it allows them to keep up the farms that have been in their families for generations.
For any Firefox users who want to drop FF in the wake of the Eich witch hunt, try Pale Moon. It's a fork of FF by a developer unaffiliated with Mozilla. Says he's more interested in stability and security than new widgets. So far I like it better than FF, and all my extensions work with it. It seems more stable, hasn't crashed on me yet.
The problem with a brain drain strategy is it retards poor countries, and without hope of progress, their residents will want to come here. Think how much better living standards in India might be if her smartest and most industriest sons were working in India. Every Indian might have a toilet now.
So I agree that tapping American women -- those with enough interest -- is something to think about.
Man, talk about your floating curve balls:
"9 out of 10 heterosexual males agree."
"Doing's better than thinking."
"Maybe, but I still don't **** fat girls."
"The American legal system agrees with you."
Etc.
Just a quick pointer. This:
At this rate, I'll be home free in 2 years after leaving college.
Shot this:
My boss, the CEO of our startup and the guy who just made me more in a week than I made in the last DECADE*, was one of them.
To shit.
For example, liberals are allowed to think Pakistani men mistreat Pakistani women, and they are allowed to think women are mistreated in the tech industry. They are not allowed to think that Pakistani men mistreat women in the tech industry.
I call this the matter-antimatter law of leftism; leftist rules are not principles, they're single-case rules. Otherwise, leftists might try to put two rules into their heads at once and BOOM!
Indian women programmers are not uniformly bad. Some on a remote team I worked with once, were, but that probably wasn't their fault but Wipro's; I've heard they will take people almost off the street and cycle them through a project. I've worked with only 4 locally, and they were a mix of average, good, and great. Foreign (Indian) men have been slow, good, and great too, but heavier toward at least average). Tedious data point but someone should make it. /no H-1B booster regardless.
(@Anon: 'Fobbit'! First time I've heard that term and I'm in roughly the same area.)
I could get behind only giving tech H1-Bs to women for a period of 50 years. Likewise, the LGBTQ community has been too long excluded from the migrant worker community. Only genderqueers from Mexico for a like term. These things matter.
If there were a tech H1-B for women only, how long would it take for someone to start training single, blonde, 18- to 22-year-old Russian girls to write code?
That could provide a great roundabout opportunity for the one class of immigrant our government actually tries to keep out.
Reply to Albertosaurus
What idiocy!!!
So you are willing to trade 2nd generation H1-B offspring, not to mention the spawn of their left of the bell curve Subway sandwich making siblings, cousins and in-laws for the children of today's unemployed or severely under payed "Peter Gibbon's" who are not having kids they can not afford and know will not qualify for AA special treatment?
Idiocracy here we come.
By the way what the hell do white baby boomers have against having white grandchild?
To quote the Derb, "What the hell is wrong with white people?"
"Throwing more programmers at a problem"....where have I heard that before?
So with that said, I'd totally prefer to bring Ragesh here and stick him in our nice little "F*ck you" real estate market.
Where he and his offspring can outvote you.
An influx of all male immigrants means that American men will see their prospects of finding a mate decline.
The obliteration of the traditional American people continues apace.
Indian women programmers are not uniformly bad.
Indeed, I have worked with an Indian female who worked on porting Open Source Software XYZ to legacy OS WNT and she did a damn good job.
Where he and his offspring can outvote you.
And his descendants can regress to the mean of his homeland.
Can't we reserve the female h-1b's for Brazilian dancers?
I suspect liberals are allowed to think Pakistani men treat Pakistani women badly - at home in Pakistan.
If they are in the US then liberals are no longer allowed to believe the above.
And the idea that Pakistani men could behave badly towards any other women (esp. white) is quite literally unthinkable for them.
Well, there is nothing wrong with huge data structs on the stack...
Just for the record: it was embedded multitasking code written entirely in 'C' and assembly language. Each task had a pre-defined stack of a specific size. Neither the compiler nor the linker prevented defining whatever you wanted on the stack; so a big data struct would overflow the stack. Of course there was also a small "kernel" -- Nucleus from Accelerated Technology, which was quite popular at the time.
roadrunner said...
Can't we reserve the female h-1b's for Brazilian dancers?
No need. They come to the U.S. as au pairs, find husbands and then stay.
Brazilians now form a huge chunk of the au pair program participants (it's also popular with Germans, Swedes, South Africans and Thais). It is overseen by the State Department as a "cultural exchange" program, but is in reality a low cost domestic help program. The quality of work is apparently not all that great since there appear to be loads of extremely unhappy parents who report non-stop partying, men and wrecked family cars from their au pairs.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/04/post_47.html
(The Brazilian Au Pair Enjoying Nameless Men and Her First Multiple Orgasm)
So what were the 'predictable consequences' for the blonde IT babes. I would assume they liked the attention from hirsute swarthy high testosterone types. How many blonde IT babes are around anyway. I mean blondes are marketed as the ultimate sexual find so why can't the poor Pakistanis 'get some'. Whats your problem.
The Anonymous at 5:09 said in reply to me:
"What idiocy" and "What the hell is wrong with white people?"
I think his nativist rage is misdirected. I used to supervise a lot of H-1B Russians and Ukrainians. They were all very, very white.
I used to tell them that we were related because the Irish missionaries founded the City of Kiev. True story. Bringing Christ to heathens was called "The White Martyrdom".
The Dark Ages in Europe were very dark indeed. Literacy all but disappeared as it had in the earlier Greek Dark Age. The church held on in Ireland and the Irish then reintroduced learning in Europe reaching all the way to the Ukraine. I couldn't understand my staff (they all spoke Slavic languages) but I though of them as being just like me. We were related.
I have to hire illegal aliens to work in my yard. I can't understand them either but they don't seem closely related. I took Spanish in High School but they speak Mayan which isn't a written language.
The sons and daughters of my Russian and Ukrainian programmers should do well in America. They all seemed to want to know how to pronounce the word 'entrepreneur'.
Russia when it was still the USSR had more than half of the engineers in the whole world. Their problem wasn't brains it was their government.
Has there ever been a Mayan engineer?
Albertosaurus
" What is the endgame for White Liberals in California?" - to someday advance from 1960 to 1961.
"
But I don't have much trouble with H1-B visa people. After the first generation of brilliant coders we are likely to have a second generation who have 'regressed to the mean'. They will only be good coders.
But the second generation of Mexicans and Mayans will still be welfare recipients. They will be regressing toward the mean from the left hand side of the distribution.
The H1-B visa scheme nets out to a 'brain drain' strategy. I don't care if Bill Gates benefits from the first generation, The whole country benefits in subsequent generations. This is just about the only governmental program that is eugenic." - regression to mean would like to have words with you good sir, it goes beyond just the second generation.
To quote the Derb, "What the hell is wrong with white people?"
Is there a single modern, scholarly treatment of the fact that Euro-Americans (if not Europeans in general) are headed for a severe (if slow-moving) population bottleneck? One of the more important events in world history is very likely unfolding before us; is anyone of note writing about it?
Has there ever been a Mayan engineer?
There was one once, but he had his heart ripped out.
Off topic but not off topic I had a meet and greet at a placement agency here in Houston. It is one of the larger recruiting agencies in the country. My background is in business consultation but for some reason the first person I spoke with was a senior associate in the IT department. The subject of H1-Bs came up, I was shocked when she said that her department only recruits H1B holders, specifically Indians. I asked her why, the response, "We can't find any skilled American workers". I said, "Oh, come now, I recently read that American Universities graduate more STEMs (found it odd that I had to explain the acronym to her) than both China and India. She relented, "Okay, it is because Americans want "three times" what employers will pay". I responded, "yes, big business wants cheap labor but they also want a virtual slave and that is what they are buying with Indian H1B holders". She feigned shock, "what do you mean virtual slaves?!!!" My response, "you know what I mean. Companies that hire these people have them under their thumb, the visa holder will not attempt to negotiate for higher wages/better benefits and Indians are rather docile" (I have never witnessed such meek men though they are seething with hatred for White men, I quickly deduced the reason for the hatred. They are not only losers in the sexual market place but when they do get married they find that their wife is far from a virgin, she has been defiled by the White man). She admitted the truth of what I said. I am not going to bother report her to EO commission or any other government entity but I am going to call the attorney in Chicago that won a suit against Washington apple growers. He successfully argued that the growers were in violation of the RICO Act. The precedent has been set. Cry havoc and let slip the attorneys of greed!
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