April 21, 2013

Chechens: Terrorists, gangsters, or freedom fighters?

Do Chechens tend to be terrorists, gangsters, or freedom fighters struggling for national liberation? 

How about: All three?

The skill sets of terrorists, gangsters, and freedom fighters overlap to a fair degree, and in the real world, we see many examples of this, with Chechens being perhaps the most extraordinary examples on a per capita basis. 

There has been much psychoanalyzing in the press of the alienation of the Bomb Brothers. Perhaps the best explanation of their anomie is that there just weren't enough fellow Chechens in America yet to form a proper Chechen Mafia, so they had to act out their Checheny impulses on their own. 

Since the answer to all problems caused by immigration is to increase immigration, I look forward to essays explaining that the way to keep Chechens in America from blowing up marathons is to import more Chechens so they can have the weight of numbers to take over, say, pimping in the New England area or some other non-terroristic pastime appropriate to their cultural predilections.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Great solution. It's like you need to bring MORE blacks into white areas so that lone blacks will turn into happy blacks.

Or how about with Jews? There were so many angry radical Jews among the first wave of immigration. How to solve the problem? Bring more Jews.
Ah, but then, Jews were still nasty and spying for communists and etc.
So, how did Jews finally become mainstream? We gave them control over the entire nation. (But then, Jews are still foaming at the mouth about the need to fight 'white privilege').
I dunno. But maybe Jews today are still less likely to become terrorists and bombers.

So, maybe we should hand over America to Chechens. Give them Wall Street, Washington, media, and etc. Maybe they'll be nice to us then.

Anonymous said...

America... from melting pot to pressure cooker.

... from Protestant Work Ethic to Protesting Work Ethic.

One thing for sure, using pressure cooker for bombs is more effective than using an underwear.

Dave Pinsen said...

This post reminds me of a line in that piece about Bonnie & Clyde (by Stephen Hunter) you linked to some time ago, about how if Clyde had been born 10 years later he might have ended up being a decorated infantry platoon leader.

Did the Russians ever raise units of Chechen shock troops, like the British did with their Ghurkas?

Glossy said...

I would imagine that of all the modern professions pimping is the one that requires the most machismo. For Chechens to take over pimping in the Boston area they'd probably have to outcompete blacks. I'm just going by what I always unwillingly hear over black radio at work.

This reminds me of a news story I saw this morning.

"Boston marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev was thrown out of his local mosque for 'crazy' behavior after getting involved a 'shouting match' with his imam according to one member of the congregation.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev was ejected from his Boston mosque for aggressive behavior after insulting Martin Luther King Jr. during a Friday prayer service three months ago
Described as being full of rage by a worshiper who would give his name only as Muhammad, Tamerlan was ejected from the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center three months ago for claiming that Martin Luther King Jr. was not a man Muslims should look to emulate.

"The dramatic confrontation between Tamerlan and his imam began when the 26-year-old interrupted a solemn Friday prayer service three months ago.
The imam had just offered up assassinated civil rights icon Martin Luther King Jr. as a fine example of a man to emulate - but this reportedly enraged Tamerlan.
'You cannot mention this guy because he’s not a Muslim!' Muhammad recalled Tamerlan shouting, shocking others in attendance according to the LA Times."


Nick Diaz said...

@Steve Sailer

"There has been much psychoanalyzing in the press of the alienation of the Bomb Brothers. Perhaps the best explanation of their anomie is that there just weren't enough fellow Chechens in America yet to form a proper Chechen Mafia, so they had to act out their Checheny impulses on their own."

This has GOT to be one of the most detestable things I have ever read from you. I never thought of you as a racist, but now I am starting to. A prickly conservative? Sure. An insensitive Aspie who doesen't care about the effect the things he writes has on people? Definitely. A puritan with a weird, feminine-like obsession with marriage? Yes. A racist? No. Not until now. But now I am starting to.

The fundamental problem with you, Sailer, is that you assume that humans are like the Borg from Star Trek. You assume they have a hive-mind and no volition and that they only exist "for their race". You write about Chechens as if they were robots with a single mind that has the program of:

"KILL! KILL! DESTROY! KILL!"

You, of course don't explain the 99% of Chechen-Americans who did NOT committ terrorism. So the 99% of peacefl Chechens are defined by that 1%? Brilliant logic there. Assuming that all Chechens want o become mafiosi and terrosrists.

Anonymous said...

I prefer Chechens over this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=153527411490280&set=a.100340000142355.523.100319763477712&type=1&theater

Bring more chechens to blue cities.

Anonymous said...

"This has GOT to be one of the most detestable things I have ever read from you. I never thought of you as a racist, but now I am starting to. A prickly conservative? Sure. An insensitive Aspie who doesen't care about the effect the things he writes has on people? Definitely. A puritan with a weird, feminine-like obsession with marriage? Yes. A racist? No. Not until now. But now I am starting to."

This sounds so bitchy that you GOT to be gay.

Actually, I was thinking along the same line as Sailer.
It's really just a cultural observation, and in some cases, true.

People are, by nature, social beings, and want to belong. Even outsiders and loners wanna belong and/or create a community of their own, which is why there are cult communities of shared interests. With fading of tribalism, many new identities are 'pop-invented', i.e. Trekkies vs Star Warriors, Kubrick nuts vs Lynch fans, Hunger Gamers vs Twilighters, Lord of Ringers vs Harry Potterheads, etc. (I detest Trekkies.) Bubblegum Crisis community was the best.

In the case of L Ron Hubbard, he created a new cult religion, and the movie MASTER showed how some alienated veteran of WWII found some meaning in belonging to it. He felt both liberated and imprisoned by it.

Same with gay community. Gays in overwhelmingly straight/conservative communities might feel lost, depressed, alienated, bitter. So, many gays come together in the same place and get gay together.

If the Chechen brothers had come from a less powerful culture, maybe they would have just melted into America.
But they came from a powerfully proud and clannish culture where honor and machismo count a lot. Those traits are harder to let go, especially in a city full of prancing fairies, bitchy feminists, and froopy liberal boys screaming 'racist' all the time.

Of course, belonging to a larger community of like-minded people is a double-edged sword. It can pacify or militant-ize individuals. The sense of belonging among one's own kind might make one feel more at peace. One may feel less alienated and angry.
But if the community is led by someone like Jim Jones or that Japanese Aum 'poison gas in subway' guy, belonging to a larger community can be even more dangerous and radicalizing.

Anonymous said...

"You, of course don't explain the 99% of Chechen-Americans who did NOT committ terrorism. So the 99% of peacefl Chechens are defined by that 1%? Brilliant logic there. Assuming that all Chechens want o become mafiosi and terrosrists."

When it comes to a fair immigration policy, it's not easy to play pick-and-choose because American laws are supposed to be equal and because there's good and bad among all races and nationalities.

BUT, can anyone deny that Southern-Italian-Americans were more likely to engage in or tolerate organized crime than Swedish-Americans?
Can anyone deny that Mexican-Americans are more likely to be messy and throw garbage all over than German-Americans?

Now, it would be wrong to keep everyone out of a certain nation because of its troublemakers, but it makes sense to be more careful about letting people in from certain nations than other ones. More terrorists and trouble-makers are likely to come from Chechnya than from Switzerland. If 1 out of 200 Chechens might turn out to be bad, the number is prolly 1 out of 20,000 for the Swiss.

And in a way, this is practiced already, but not always in a good way. As US is Jewish-controlled, just about any Jew--no matter the skeletons in his closet--can come to America, but Palestinians with even slightest ties to 'terrorist' groups have a difficult time gaining a green card.

And Germans and Eastern Europeans with possible 'Nazi' or 'hate' connections past or present have been banned or sent back. But Jews with bloody communist pasts or record of Zionist violence against Palestinians have not been banned at all but welcomed with open arms.

So, there is a selective immigration policy in practice. Some people are combed over a lot more thoroughly than other people.

Personally, with the rise of China, I would be very careful about letting in Chinese as Chinese are awful proud. A whole bunch of them may work here and send secrets to China.

Anonymous said...

Who is a 'terrorist'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSDdlmOXzog

Kaz said...

@Glossy

Wow, he was so nutty that the local mosque kicked him out?

BrokenSymmetry said...

Nick Diaz said

"An insensitive Aspie who doesen't care about the effect the things he writes has on people? Definitely."

Why should Steve (or any other writer) care about the tender sensitivities of his readership? We're adults and quite capable of taking a few knocks. And personally I'd take a writer who isn't afraid of treading on a few toes over one who pulls his punches any day (to mix some metaphors)

"You assume they have a hive-mind and no volition and that they only exist "for their race""

You mean La Raza?

Anonymous said...

To immigration! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

Anonymous said...

We should call Obama BAF or Baffy(than Barry).

BAF for Bill Ayer's Friend.

There you go, Americans elected Bill Ayer's Friend to protect them from terrorists.

Anonymous said...

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2012/08/slavoj-%C5%BEi%C5%BEek-politics-batman

Mr Zigzag on Bane and Che.

Anonymous said...

Steve Sailer is racist against white people. Who knew!

Anonymous said...

There has been much psychoanalyzing in the press of the alienation of the Bomb Brothers. Perhaps the best explanation of their anomie...

What is the best explanation of the anomie of iSteve readers?

Anonymous said...

...they had to act out their Checheny impulses on their own....

Steve,

What is especially "Checheny" about the actions of these men? American and Jewish boys engage in mayhem and killing throughout the world on a regular basis.

Is it the David versus Goliath aspect of the situation?

Taking on the most powerful martial organization in the world has got to require some courage.

heh said...

Was wondering when Diaz would deign to resurface. Good show my man.

Maxwell Power said...

Nick Diaz: careful, this may be one of those situations where the "99% of peaceful [violent ethnics]" bromide is technically inoperative. Run the numbers on that...

dearieme said...

Terrorists are people defined by a technique, freedom fighters by a (purported) purpose. You can be both: John Brown - he of the mouldering body - was.

Truckee Man said...

It's simple. No immigrants or visas for citizens of countries that sponsor or commit terrorism. No tourist, student H-1B green card, none. Won't happen because the pantywaists that dominate the culture would shout it down.

Anonymous said...

As US is Jewish-controlled

This is nonsense. At most, Jews form a powerful stakeholder group, but Jews do not hold a monopoly on important government positions at the state and federal levels. Wall Street may be disproportionately Jewish, but it is not completely Jewish. The Jew-haters on this site like to exaggerate.

rec1man said...

@David Pinsen

Chechnya borders Stalingrad and lots of Chechens fought for the Germans as part of islamic jihad against the godless Soviets

In 1944, Stalin deported all the chechens to Siberia

Matt said...

Has Solzhenitsyn's description of the Chechens ( Harper & Row, Vol 1. pg 25, 84 & [637 glossary]) been discussed much here? Reading his description of the their prison persona(s) and roles makes their subsequent history very believable. Matt

Anonymous said...

@ Nick Diaz

Please leave iSteve and go read this story instead to soothe your nerves.

Anonymous said...

"I never thought of you as a racist, but now I am starting to"

Wake up and smell the coffee. Everyone around these parts is a racist.

Anonymous said...

Nick Diaz isn't even trying. He's either mentally retarded or trolling on purpose. Just ignore, please. Don't encourage.

Anonymous said...

"I never thought of you as a racist,..."

People usually say this as a way of calling someone racist. Like that should win an argument or something. But it carries particularly little weight when discussing group stereotypes that to some degree reflect reality. An important part of intelligence is the ability to recognize patterns that are often subtle..

Why does Nick Diaz get to be a professional racist while the rest of us don't?

Mr. Anon said...

The mafia started out as freedom fighters, then became gangsters, and on many occasions have been terrorists. There is often a continuum between these three occupations.

Hunsdon said...

Anonydroid at 3:22: Taking on the most powerful martial organization in the world has got to require some courage.

Hunsdon: Look, Boston PD is plenty fascist, but most powerful martial organization in the world? I give the Tsarnaev boys credit for going down bloody, I wouldn't expect less from a Chechen, God love 'em. The border reivers and the highlanders of Scotland would appreciate and understand the Chechens.

Hunsdon said...

Nick Diaz said: I never thought of you as a racist, but now I am starting to.

Hunsdon: Now I'm confused. I thought you hated Steve for being racist against Southern Europeans. Come on, esse, keep your lines straight.

Svigor said...

This is nonsense. At most, Jews form a powerful stakeholder group, but Jews do not hold a monopoly on important government positions at the state and federal levels. Wall Street may be disproportionately Jewish, but it is not completely Jewish. The Jew-haters on this site like to exaggerate.

Maybe, if he'd meant to say "monopolize," he would have said "monopolize."

You quibble over semantics for your side, but then characterize people who disagree with you as "Jew-haters."

America is, essentially, Jewish-controlled.

Controlled

5 the activity of managing or exerting control over something; "the control of the mob by the police was admirable"

Did the police hold a monopoly of power over the mob? Better dial the askdefine folks and tell them how wrong Wrong WRONG they are. Tell them they're a bunch of Jew-haters, too.

6 the state that exists when one person or group has power over another; "her apparent dominance of her husband was really her attempt to make him pay attention to her"

Whups, there they go again.

4 control (others or oneself) or influence skillfully, usually to one's advantage; "She manipulates her boss"; "She is a very controlling mother and doesn't let her children grow up"; "The teacher knew how to keep the class in line"; "she keeps in line"

ANTI-SEMITES!!!

Anonymous said...

"What is the best explanation of the anomie of iSteve readers?"

Similar to organized atheists. They are unable to persuade women to have sex with them.

Steve posts many fine ideas but nonetheless these kinds of people are the anchor of the website.

Anonymous said...

"I would imagine that of all the modern professions pimping is the one that requires the most machismo."

Pimping requires having a lower barrier to hurting women than the rest of the local competition.

David said...

>They are unable to persuade women to have sex with them.<

Are you coming on to me?