From the L.A. Times:
College football seemed so easy for Robert Woods.
The bigger players and harder hits, the roaring crowds, he sailed through all of that to become an instant star at USC, catching passes by the dozen as a freshman.
It was another part of the game — a part fans don't see — that took him by surprise. It was the peanut butter and jelly.
"You think, coming to USC, they'll have food whenever you want but it's really not like that," he said. "I've gone four days straight of just sandwiches."
Now a sophomore, Woods has learned that bills — rent, utilities, and phone — devour most of his monthly scholarship check, leaving only dollars a day to eat. The team feeds him dinner during the season, but the rest of the time, he says, "you're on your own."
This dilemma affects student-athletes nationwide. According to a 2010 study, the maximum financial aid allowed under NCAA rules can fall short of covering school and living expenses by anywhere from $200 to $10,000 a year, depending on the campus.
At USC, Athletic Director Pat Haden estimates that his athletes need another $3,300 to meet basic needs. "It doesn't seem right," he said. "And I think it's a public relations nightmare."
With the Pac-12 Conference and other major conferences set to reap billions from new television contracts, the NCAA board of directors recently announced that members will have the option of boosting aid by as much as $2,000 a year.
It's very hard for an outsider to get a realistic picture of how well star college football players like Woods, who was the #1 ranked receiver in his recruiting class two years ago, live. For example, during a heat wave a few years ago when USC was the king of college football, I read quotes from USC players were complaining that the football players' dorm wasn't air-conditioned. Traditionally, a lot of dorms at USC weren't air-conditioned because the school is in the relatively cool LA Basin that benefits from ocean breezes. But football players have to move in during August, when it's not infrequently over 100, and those kind of temperatures can recur well into October during Santa Ana winds. I'd always assumed that USC football players had air conditioning, but apparently that wasn't true.
Perhaps boosters put a lot of money into doing flashy things for superstar recruits but not that much for the average player?
Head football coaches, however, live very well.
Posts
109 comments:
Knockout King:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HO1kZjYymo
Why shouldn't they be paid for their hard work, skills, and assumption of the risk of serious injury? The NCAA is a serial anti-trust violator--keeping the price of players low in the name of some 19th Century British toff notion of "amateurism."
All I can tell you is that at Cal, the football and b-ball players have handicapped placards for their cars. Near the campus, it's not uncommon to see an entire city block, both sides of the street, filled with placarded autos.
Head football coaches, however, live very well
You can say that again!
@2:57 PM
Sandusky wasn't a head coach.
@2:53 PM
So why don't they just mooch off airheaded sorority girls?
They probably do. It's not like there's a shortage of rich sluts on campus ready to spend daddy's money on an alpha buck.
I'm surprised that dorms at USC aren't air-conditioned. In my experience as a frequent visitor, most places in LA (including the basin) have A/C except maybe those right at the beach. Sure, there are years when there are hardly any hot days, but there are also years when those Santa Anas are relentless.
Have I got it wrong? Is lack of A/C actually common in the LA basin?
Furthermore, I thought USC was famously a school for rich kids. Don't the rich kids (or their parents) demand comfy living quarters? Even more, don't the international students - drawn overwhelmingly from their nations' elites - demand all the comforts of home?
When I was a gymnast in college we had no scholarships and took sack lunches on the road, where we stayed 4 to a room. But we had a team and it was great to compete in the NCAA Championships. We worked summers to pay for tuition, etc. Of course they killed the team to use its budget for another football scholarship. I really feel for those guys.
About two years ago, I talked to a friend from Texas whose daughter was starting at USC. Some dorms had A/C, some did not, which surprised me at first. We spent a lot of time talking about the weather in downtown LA.
My impression is that, in general, dorm quality is very hit or miss, even on the same campus. Prestige correlates with a college being old and exclusive, which means that a lot of dorms are old on fancy colleges, which can mean it's hard to retrofit them with all mod cons, although A/C shouldn't be that much of a problem, you'd think. So, a lot of old dorms get limped along until they finally get around to finishing a brand new one to replace them.
For example, my older son's freshman dorm room (not at USC) resembled a 50-year-old Motel 6, while his junior dorm room in a brand new building was great: it was basically a 4-bedroom, 2-bath apartment for 4 students, with small private bedrooms, a living room, and a semi-kitchen. I believe they are now tearing down the 50-year-old dorm.
Anyway, a lot of parents wind up surprised at what kind of dorm rooms their kids get. When you take a college tour, they'll normally show you a nicer one, which is another reason why college tours are pretty useless.
NCAA is a sham. Division I players are professional athletes who are underpaid, working under one of the country's most exploitative monopolies. There should be minor league football, just like there is in baseball. I know it exists already to a very limited extent, but it should be expanded to take the place of Division I. Those athletes are getting robbed.
-Risto
They probably do. It's not like there's a shortage of rich sluts on campus ready to spend daddy's money on an alpha buck.
You tend to overestimate this. Unless an athlete is truly a superstar, nobody is going to open their wallet for him. Playing on the the team is a status booster, but most people don't pay enough attention to care all that much.
I should also add that many of these "alpha bucks" are putting their bodies on the line every play, every down. When they graduate from college, all the cheering, the applause, and the fans are in the past. Nobody really cares that they played on the 98 Ducks. Sports fans move on quickly, as Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers can tell you.
The only thing that lives on is the injuries, which nag atheletes and drag down their health for the rest of their lives. 4 years of being somebody special, but then another 50 decades of living with a banged up and painful body. Unless a kid goes pro and ends up having at least a few productive years, it's really not worth it in the longterm. For every Mark Sanchez or Reggie Bush, there are an innumerable number of college and HS players that broke their bodies without making a dime off it. Heck even a lot of pros wash out only after a few years.
I haven't lived in southern California but I have lived in a similar climate in South Australia. You don't need a/c since the hot days are overwhelmingly low humidity days. You need a ceiling fan to sleep comfortably, and a bit of sense about how to manage ventilation and sunlight.
I have lived in a humid subtropical climate without a/c - never again.
Aww, too bad. What about the average middle class kid who's too "rich" for financial aid? They have to take out huge loans or their parents have to put their homes in hock. No sympathy here for these spoiled athletes who don't even have to do any real classroom work to pass. I was a non collegiate amateur athlete in case you were wondering.
Meal plans are often part of scholarship offers. Why would you choose to live off campus when you can get every need (including women) right outside of your dorm room door? I lived down the hall from my school's hoops team - let's just say all of their needs were fulfilled.
However, I'll allow that USC may be an exception because of a lack of space on campus for dorms forces upperclassmen off campus, also a problem at my alma mater.
It's bad enough that rich fools, such as T Boone Pickens, shovel ungodly amounts of dough at college football programs (rather than something useful, like HBD research or immigration-restrictionist political action), but then the jocks don't even get to EAT? Where is the money going?
Get rid of athletic scholarships.
In middle school I attended nerd camp at Duke.
There was no a/c in the dorm. At a rich school. In North Carolina.
I suppose the excuse is that the regular semester didn't start until September. I assure you that it was not pleasant as a camper in July, and I doubt it was much better for college students at the beginning or end of the school year.
"Of course they killed the team to use its budget for another football scholarship. I really feel for those guys."
LOL. You're showing your age. That must have been way before Title IX.
...college tours are pretty useless.
I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think so, Steve.
I don't believe one word of that article. They're claiming that the NCAA prevents the school from covering his dorm cost. That right there is enough to tell you the article is worthless.
Most likely, this player is spending money on drugs and an off campus apartment but was too stupid to properly budget his meals.
Just go to the football facility of any powerhouse D-1 football factory and look at the cars that the players drive. Many have a better car than you, Steve.
"Anonymous said...
@2:57 PM
Sandusky wasn't a head coach.
@2:53 PM
So why don't they just mooch off airheaded sorority girls?
They probably do. It's not like there's a shortage of rich sluts on campus ready to spend daddy's money on an alpha buck.
11/17/11 3:25 PM"
"alpha buck"? Is that another white supremacist slang to diminish black men by comparing them to deers? Way to be racist, Anon. But what can I expect from this blog ...
Oh, boo hoo. I went to Ga. Tech in the late sixties, when only a few of the dorms had AC. It gets hot and humid there, and the jocks just had to sweat with the rest of us.
Here's a link to college football coaches' salaries:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/story/2011-coaches-salaries-database/51244154/1
USC didn't provide data, but you can bet that Lane Kiffin, the coach, isn't eating too many PBJ's for lunch - across town, UCLA's Rick Neuheisel is making $1,285,000, and USC is 8-2, while UCLA is 5-5. But this might seem like chump change to Mack Brown of Texas ($5,193,500), Nick Saban of Alabama ($4,833,333) or Bob Stoops of Oklahoma ($4,075,000). As you say, the coaches live very well indeed.
4 years of being somebody special, but then another 50 decades of living with a banged up and painful body.
50 decades, wow! I'll take that deal, who knows what advances medical science will make in 500 years.
(yeah, yeah I know you really meant years)
College Football players are already "paid" - they get scholarships and room and board worth on average $20,000/year after tax.
Besides, I'd like to know how you're going to pay the football players and not pay all the other college athletes.
@Tony: the average middle class kid who goes to college has the academic ability and time to get a meaningful education. That's what he's getting from college and that's what he's supposed to be getting from it. Admitting students who are far below the school's standards and passing them through without making them do academic work isn't a favor to them.
I am Lugash.
NCAA is a sham. Division I players are professional athletes who are underpaid, working under one of the country's most exploitative monopolies. There should be minor league football, just like there is in baseball. I know it exists already to a very limited extent, but it should be expanded to take the place of Division I. Those athletes are getting robbed.
The NFL will never develop a minor league team. From their point, the colleges are already doing it for free.
I think the MLB keeps the farm system due to the long seasons, length of time it takes to develop a player, and that players have ups and downs.
I am Lugash.
UCLA's Rick Neuheisel is making $1,285,000, and USC is 8-2, while UCLA is 5-5. But this might seem like chump change to Mack Brown of Texas ($5,193,500), Nick Saban of Alabama ($4,833,333) or Bob Stoops of Oklahoma ($4,075,000). As you say, the coaches live very well indeed.
Yeah but you have to factor in taxes.
"Besides, I'd like to know how you're going to pay the football players and not pay all the other college athletes."
Come on now, Barack, this is capitalist America and the "other college athletes" don't generate positive revenue.
Not only do the coaches live the life, they take it with them 3-4 years later when the radio jocks deem it firing season. Paterno stayed put longer than most Southern Congressmen but now, instead of merely being regarded as a curio, his tenure will just serve to prevent every coach who isn't a gun for hire from entering the NCAA business.
You tend to overestimate this. Unless an athlete is truly a superstar, nobody is going to open their wallet for him. Playing on the the team is a status booster, but most people don't pay enough attention to care all that much.
Huh? I'm in college and virtually everyone is a jocksniffing sycophant who worships the team.
These dumb jocks who could never actually qualify for this school walk around like they own the place (and fellow students treat them accordingly).
"You think, coming to USC, they'll have food whenever you want, but it's really not like that," he said. "I've gone four days straight of just sandwiches."
Woods, who receives the same "full-ride" scholarship as any other athlete playing a major D1 sport, has his nutritional needs provided for by the USC meal plan, paid for by whatever portion of the generous stipend given him is allotted to "board".
The issue, then, seems to be that USC's cafeteria operates in some way, or according to some schedule, that Woods finds unsatisfactory or inconvenient. He is not, however, going without food, as would seem to be the assumption to which the reader is led by the writer's selective use of quotations.
This is, if nothing else, at least the most clever attempt at eliciting sympathy among the general public for the plight of the "poor"--and now, as the author of this piece would have us believe, literally starving--scholarship athlete participating in a major D1 sport, such as FBS football, and thereby justifying the payment to such athletes of some form of compensation beyond the four years of free education they receive solely on the basis of their athletic abilities.
Wow, 33 reax atm and nobody made the obvious Human Bio-Dome comment--at least not that Sailer cleared in moderation--that giant football people eat more food than the gender studies majors lounging in the dorm to watch MTV at 4-6 hours' length over beers. (Woods might be closer to the other tail of the genetic hulking curve but undoubtedly burns through some kilojoules in the average morning) Didn't any of you attend a U w/ football? It's a campus cliche that the team members abuse the meal plan, i.e. borrow other peoples' cards and go back in line for 3rds or 4ths in contravention of local policy; and then proceed to mess up the cafeteria floor in medieval fashion. It ain't on the Westside but University Park has gentrified dramatically, as every "upper tier" edu-village has, and some lower ones. Unless he's also a cook I find it eminently plausible that Robert is subsisting on materials from Costco. Rather than just throwing him a "stipend" I'd prefer they attempt to educate him, too, but he's got a point about USC Industries consuming more of his time than that of the other little meritocratic darlings. All American universities today epitomize the corporate pyramid hierarchy and the cheap-labor scam, so I say let the damned AD answer for this.
I guess the calorific intake for a football player is much much higher than for a regular student? Dollars a day was what I lived on as a student, but I was a skinny nerd.
The guy is averaging 9.2 receptions per game for USC, fifth nationally, so if he says he's hungry, he's probably working hard enough on his game to be hungry.
Anyway, my impression is that college football and basketball recruiting aren't efficient markets where high schoolers sit around calculating the net present value of their different offers.
SBPDL suggested this book to me about the senior year in high school of NBA journeyman point guard Sebastian Telfair, and most decisions seem to be driven by emotions and perceptions of loyalty: "Trojans rule!" or "My coach seems to want me to go to UCLA, but my uncle wants me to go to SC" and both of the adults are on the take but the player often isn't. Or the prospect's older half brother suddenly gets a car and then becomes a big advocate of San Diego State.
The kids have a lot of pressure on them to be Big Men and direct resources to their kin.
So, recruiting is very murky.
SBPDL suggested this book to me about the senior year in high school of NBA journeyman point guard Sebastian Telfair, and most decisions seem to be driven by emotions and perceptions of loyalty: "Trojans rule!" or "My coach seems to want me to go to UCLA, but my uncle wants me to go to SC" and both of the adults are on the take but the player often isn't. Or the prospect's older half brother suddenly gets a car and then becomes a big advocate of San Diego State.
The kids have a lot of pressure on them to be Big Men and direct resources to their kin.
So, recruiting is very murky.
'College sports' is the kind of dumb institution that could only have originated in America. Yes, other nations have college sport program, but they're not the focus of such unholy amounts of money or irrational passion.
In the end, does it really matter of the Louisiana negroes beat the Georgia negroes?
A few things to consider:
1. A NCAA full scholarship athlete can either live on campus and eat in the dorm or take a stipend and live off campus. The stipend is not that large due to tax considerations.
2. Most Div-I athletes outside of football and basketball are on partial scholarships. the NCAA limits baseball teams to 9 scholarships for 24 players. Sports outside of football and basketball are allowed to split their scholarships. Remember that the infamous Duke Lacrosse team had 45 plaers but only five on scholarship.
3. For athletes outside of football and basketball, the benefit is being admitted to an university that they would not be admitted to for academic reasons. That is why schools like Duke and Johns Hopkins are good in Lacrosse and Northwestern is good at field hockey.
4. There has been a series of articles on how little value being a college really is. The parents spent $1,000 in lessons,camps, and travel for their child to be a Div I athlete where they end up majoring in an worthless major so that the academics does not interfere with sports. Look at how most of the players on the University of North Carolina women's soccer team major in recreational sciences.
Huh? I'm in college and virtually everyone is a jocksniffing sycophant who worships the team.
These dumb jocks who could never actually qualify for this school walk around like they own the place (and fellow students treat them accordingly).
I don't understand why White fathers would want these sexual animals in college with their own daughters. If you let these black thugs with no self control into the place and give them the highest status possible on campus, what do they think is going to happen?
Well what happens is those middle-aged football fans having to speedily drive their daughters to an abortion clinic.
Or not:
http://deadspin.com/5376552/alabama-father-pleased-daughters-domestic-dispute-wont-interfere-with-football-season
Alabama linebacker Courtney Upshaw and his girlfriend both agreed to dismiss charges filed against the other after a lover's spat this summer. No one is more excited about this than the girl's father who exited the courthouse shouting, "Roll Tide!"
No kidding. Harvard and Yale have spent some real money and over a decade on the process.
"Estimates for the price tag of House renewal at Harvard have hovered between $1 billion and $1.3 billion. At Yale, the university had invested over $500 million into the construction process by November 2007, with four colleges then yet to be renovated."
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/3/2/yale-college-harvard-renovation/
* * *
"Prestige correlates with a college being old and exclusive, which means that a lot of dorms are old on fancy colleges, which can mean it's hard to retrofit them with all mod cons, although A/C shouldn't be that much of a problem, you'd think. So, a lot of old dorms get limped along until they finally get around to finishing a brand new one to replace them."
"you're on your own."
I'm wondering if he'd get that right if he had to write it himself.
And BTW welcome to the club.
Troofie, the hockey team at my alma mater generates a profit. I remember fans of a Southern school's football team looking at the rink during halftime, set up for an exhibition game that evening, and marveling at the Hockey East and NCAA
championship banners. One said, "Dang, these Yankees like their ice hockey!"
And the players actually go to class...
Has anyone here ever been closer to a football program than a newspaper article?
One, if an athletes' (particularly football) nutrition is in this state, the strength and conditioning coach (and generally sizeable staff should be fired immediately - hint, they don't let this happen).
Two, if USC is like any school on the East coast, there are numerous dining halls/sandwich shops, deli's, bake shops, you-name-it on and off campus that swipe student id's for payment. I know three kids on large SEC teams (older teammates of my son) whose use their cards to eat all of the time. The accounts associated with the i.d.'s don't run out.
Thirdly, what kind of town is L.A. where a starting offensive football player can't walk into any restaurant around campus and eat and drink for free. In SEC country these kids are worshipped like gods (yes, it's crazy and rather disgusting after a while - see alternativeright.com article, The Game of the Century as well as an older one on Auburn). But if you can get a few players in a restaurant/bar in Auburn, Tuscaloosa, or Athens, you'll pack your it out. Period.
Fourthly, who the hell cares about USC. It's the modern (past 25 years) equivalent to the Kardashians. Lots of make up, cameras and silicone. Pete left it for anther celebrity girlfriend and Kiffin crawled into her window in the dead of night right after Pete snuck out.
That may sound like hyperbolic bullshit to her fans, but when you consider that a USC 'perfect day' is a win for Trojans and a loss by UCLA and Notre Dame, you realize just how irrelevant and full of media hot air that program is.
He's clearly living off-campus. That's pretty stupid for someone with a scholarship that pays room and board.
I attended a big ACC school with a decent football program and the athletes there had a separate dorm and dining hall. The athletic dining hall had much better (and more) food than the normal student dining hall.
..college tours are pretty useless.
I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think so, Steve.
its probably like the tours israel give US government officials - they show them what they want them to see.
From the article: "This dilemma affects student-athletes nationwide."
What "dilemma"? Being a campus jock versus working in a gas station for minimum wage? Being a scholarship student versus paying their own way? Being a black student in Africa versus a scholarship jock in the USA?
I fail to see any "dilemma" What I see is whining.
What has happened to the LA Times copy editors?
"You think, coming to USC, they'll have food whenever you want, but it's really not like that," he said. "I've gone four days straight of just sandwiches."
God! How awful! Just like down on the plantation. Slave catchers snatching up poor little Negro children, forcing them to play football, and (horrors!) not giving them food "whenever they want".
Let this be a challenge to all of us: how can we set them free and reunite them with their loving families back in Equatorial Guinea, Zimbabwe and the Congo where they can eat food "whenever they want" and play and gambol.
Does Sailer ever review music? Maybe he should this time because he's a Californian and a boomer.
Steve,
Please read 'The Blind Side' --- it's primarily about recruiting in the SEC. Follow that up with a quick read of "Meat Market" and you'll understand what a true zero-sum game.
Also, please tell me you saw this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-57326841-10391697/packers-jordy-nelson-says-his-race-helps-him-succeed/
Jordy Nelson is a legitimate No.1 receiver, who had to walk-on to Kansas State as a defensive back because no one would give him a scholarship.
I remember hearing a story about Tim Dwight - a former white receiver from Iowa - who ran a 4.2 40, and how scouts would always ask him to run it again, incredulous that their watches read such a time.
The other top white receiver in the NFL, Wes Welker, was going to walk-on at Ok. State until he sent a tape to the Pirate Mike Leech at Texas Tech.
It's not that white guys can't play the position, it's that they are kept from playing it. And it primarily starts at the high school/college level.
Of course, two other white NFL receivers, Eric Decker of the Broncos and Riley Cooper of the Eagles, were also baseball starts in college.
It's my belief that the best white athletes play baseball, because they can primarily travel around with their friends (baseball is a year long investment now) who are also white.
I played AAU basketball and was the only white guy on my team (my HS team was all white) and hated every second of it, because I had to change my game from a more 'team' oriented style to a "show-me" individual style so that recruiters could spot talent in one-on-one match-ups.
With football, white guys from the suburbs (especially in the south) don't get recruited by the major schools, and many end up trying to play both baseball and then walking-on the football team.
It's my belief that your top SEC schools like Auburn, UGA, and BAMA could field a competitive football team with just some of the normal students paying their own way to school, instead of recruiting the, ahem, "student-athletes" to represent the school.
When Michael Irvin was at the University of Miami he had to mix ketchup packets with water and tell himself he was eating tomato soup.......no I'm kidding, he had cocaine and crab legs almost every single meal.
Dan in DC
"'The SMiLE Sessions' is available now from EMI digitally, as a two-disc album and as a box set that features four CDs, two LPs, two vinyl singles and a 60-page book about the album."
Vinyl? Does anyone listen to vinyl anymore?
I find it hard to sympathize with 'SC football players ever since I was empaneled on a Santa Monica jury that wound up not judging a couple of them for strong-arm robberies they committed in the early 90s. The players and a third homeboy buddy from San Diego copped a plea, but only after making us sit around for days while their lawyers threatened to go to trial.
The detective on the case looked oddly familiar to me when he became famous a few years later, and it took me a long time to figure out how I could possibly know Mark Furman... It was from the voir dire, of course.
More here, in an old article that's almost novelistically entangled with itself and this blog:
http://www.drinkerbiddle.com/news/detail.aspx?news=120
This is part of some larger media "push" campaign. SI just did an article pointing out that if you cancelled all the other men' sports (I mean, made them "club" sports), you would save enough money to pay all the football and basketball players.
Who is pushing this, and why?
A kind of queue-ism seems to operate in the world of public ideas. For a long time, it was not fashionable(or even permissible) to critique the notion of 'college should be for all AND college is stepping stone to success for everyone'. So, even those with grave doubts about American higher education kept mum. But once the green light was given by powers-that-be to discuss the issue, a flood of books and articles have been pouring forth recently.
So, all these thinkers, critics, and commentators had been queueing up for the moment when their ideas would be acceptable(and even encouraged). Until then, however, they'd kept their views to themselves. It kinda reminds me of the Hundred Flowers Campaign. Until then, there was no criticism of the Communist Party. But once Hundred Flowers campaign began and Mao gave green light to criticize the Party, a flood of criticism that had been silently queueing up burst forth--so much so that Mao put an end to all that.
So, maybe there's a lot more honest thoughts and views on races out there than we realize. But most people keep mum out of fear. But once the powers-that-be allow one voice to expound on the issue honestly, it could unleash an entire flood of views on the subject. This may explain why the liberal powers-that-be are absolutely adamant about there being no discussion on race because permission to do so may lead to a flood of views that may swamp PC. Maybe liberals sense that there is a lot of anxiety and controversial views on race that remain muted but will rage out of control if ONE voice is permitted in any respectable circle. Given the hunger for respectability, privilege, and power among academics and social-climbing intellectuals/journalists, most people will keep silent about what isn't permitted by the powers-that-be even if they believe it to be true.
"Of course they killed the team to use its budget for another football scholarship. I really feel for those guys." -Anon.
"LOL. You're showing your age. That must have been way before Title IX." - Truth
"Truth" assumes that anonymous Gymnast is a female. If he is actually a man, they likely chloroformed the team because of Title IX, which has been killing secondary men's sports for decades. It's one of the reasons American women now routinely do better in the Olympics than American men.
Here's the list of all the men's college gymnastics teams in the country. Compare it to the list of women's teams.
Were separate athletic dorms outlawed?
I remember stories about wealthy donors bringing sides of beef from their ranches to stock the football team's cafeteria.
Also, my old school, NAIA level, has an unlimited food plan. Great for the athletes, not so good for my small future daughters in law.
goatweed
Texas Monthly. Good journal?
"USC didn't provide data, but you can bet that Lane Kiffin, the coach, isn't eating too many PBJ's for lunch - across town, UCLA's Rick Neuheisel is making $1,285,000, and USC is 8-2, while UCLA is 5-5."
Kiffin makes about $2M a year, less than half what Pete Carroll made. Carroll was, at one time, the highest paid college football coach anywhere. And he lived very well, somewhere in the south bay - Palos Verdes, I think.
It wasn't always so. John McKay was hired by USC in 1960 for something like $11K a year. As head football coach, he was classified (I believe) as an associate professor in the phys ed department, so he got some perks such as reduced tuition for his kids. He lived very modestly in West Covina, and his reward for the 1962 national championship team was some alumni kicking in the dough to have a swimming pool built in his backyard.
Times sure have changed.
Off topic, but I just heard reality do a terrible imitation of parody. Herman Cain said no one knows every detail about everything in the world, "we need a leader, not a reader."
I was elected to lead, not to read were the words of president Swarchzenegger in The Simpsons Movie.
Re 'another 5 decades' - I seem to recall reading that the life expectancy of these guys was around 45. So more like half that - 2.5 decades.
I'm not surprised that other students resent them for being big dumb lunks who act like they own the place, but then these guys aren't really students, they're warrior-champions who
(a) are highly physically talented (b) are risking crippling injury
(c) In most cases have few prospects after graduation
For the SWPL nerd, college is just starting out in life. For the black football player, this is IT - the culmination of their career. And what do they get? Meagre pay, maybe a shot at the professional game, and 2.5 decades of chronic pain, prior to death. Maybe the nerds shouldn't feel so jealous.
Injuries? Maybe but theyve had 4 years living out of the hood during their prime Get-Shot years. They probably come out ahead!I am a bit surprised the Dear leader has not adopted this as a pet cause,it seems so fitting to him;and he probably admired the athletes when he went to college! What?
"I haven't lived in southern California but I have lived in a similar climate in South Australia. You don't need a/c since the hot days are overwhelmingly low humidity days. You need a ceiling fan to sleep comfortably, and a bit of sense about how to manage ventilation and sunlight.
I have lived in a humid subtropical climate without a/c - never again."
That's been my experience, too. I was in Texas this summer when the temp was routinely 100+ degrees F. We did a lot of walking and even dining outside and I felt fine. I then flew to St. Louis, with a temp in the low 80s but high humidity, and got a sinus headache before the plane even landed. Walking the 50 ft. to the car in the airport parking lot, I sweated more than I did in a week in Texas.
Here where high humidity is a miserable fact of life, I'd rather have air conditioning than central heating.
The NCAA is a serial anti-trust violator--keeping the price of players low in the name of some 19th Century British toff notion of "amateurism."
Very true.
These are not student athletes. They are recruited for athletic ability and many were they non athletes, wouldn't be admitted at all.
The amateur bologna comes from a time when the students were little more than intramural players.
The only thing that lives on is the injuries, which nag atheletes and drag down their health for the rest of their lives. 4 years of being somebody special, but then another 50 decades of living with a banged up and painful body. Unless a kid goes pro and ends up having at least a few productive years, it's really not worth it in the longterm.
Come on, look on the bright side, no college debt. I mean if these players are marginal students and get a bunch of college girls to uh, entertain them while they are in college playing ball, where is the real opportunity cost? I mean being a burger flipper, no college girl fun, no glory days, no college degree, but hey, no injuries. I mean, is that really the kind of deal most guys would go for? or would they go play ball and play with the college girls for four years?
Honestly, it just never stops does it?
Someone is good a playing a kids game, and gets a free ride for 4 years of college, and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them? Even if they don't have the smarts to graduate, they get a shot at the Pros and becoming Millionaires.
Compare this a lot of young people who spend years in the Army trying to save up enough to go to college.
This country is nuts.
On the topic of college football, Robert Griffin III of Baylor is being hyped as the next Great Black Quarterback.
Look for the jocksniffers on ESPN to insist he's the 'smart choice' for NFL draft after Andrew Luck.
BRA continues...
"I don't understand why White fathers would want these sexual animals in college with their own daughters."
Well you answered your own question with the link you pasted now didn't you?
I'll encapsulate it. They want to breed little sexual animal grandsons who are going to score lots of touchdowns and support them into their older days.
"Troofie, the hockey team at my alma mater generates a profit....
Well great, they'll get paid too; see how simple this is?
"And the players actually go to class..."
More professors, more grading -- oh well, I guess the university can't have everything it wants.
OT. Could it be guys like Bill Gates and other biggies like him prefer foreign computer geeks cuz American-bred ones--especially Jews--tend to be restlessly ambitious and individualistic? If Gates hired a bunch of Zuckerbergoids, they would learn what they need to learn and then try to create their own companies to beat Microsoft.
Or consider how Jobs had mentored the Google kids, but the Google kids went after Jobs with Android.
So, maybe guys like Gates and Jobs think foreign geeks will turn out to be more loyal and less rebellious.
Don't their families send them food packages of allowance? Do they look for part time work?
"Admitting students who are far below the school's standards and passing them through without making them do academic work isn't a favor to them."
It most certainly is doing them a favor. A dumb, washed up jock who never made it into the big time, is better off with a college degree than without one. Society might not be better off but he certainly is.
"Now a sophomore, Woods has learned that bills — rent, utilities, and phone — devour most of his monthly scholarship check, leaving only dollars a day to eat. The team feeds him dinner during the season, but the rest of the time, he says, "you're on your own."
Why doesn't he live in a dorm and get a meal ticket? Shouldn't the school provide that? What is this giving someone a check? Does he really need an expensive cell phone , probably with internet. My only phone is a Tracfone that I spend about 100-120 a year on. I don't sit there and blab for hours the phone like a woman.
"hirdly, what kind of town is L.A. where a starting offensive football player can't walk into any restaurant around campus and eat and drink for free."
Isn't that a violation of NCAA rules?
"That's been my experience, too. I was in Texas this summer when the temp was routinely 100+ degrees F. We did a lot of walking and even dining outside and I felt fine. I then flew to St. Louis, with a temp in the low 80s but high humidity, and got a sinus headache before the plane even landed.
I live in northern Illinois and my sinuses constantly bother me. I was in southern Utah and the dry, desert air is so much nicer.
The airheads most likely to open their wallets aren't sorority girls, its the used car dealer boosters
European Universities do not have sports teams associated with them. There is no U of Paris Soccer team and IMHO that is a much better system. People who want to play advanced soccer play at the club level, it makes the clubs much stronger and makes the town-gown divide less.
"at Cal, the football and b-ball players have handicapped placards for their cars. "
That's a scandal waiting to hit Cal with NCAA sanctions. Cade McNown and several UCLA players got hauled into court for doing that some years back.
"this is capitalist America and the "other college athletes" don't generate positive revenue."
Yeah yeah yeah.
You go on and on how college football generates revenue to pay the scholarships for smart but poor White kids.
If it's all about revenue, a casino would generate just as easily, for far less expense in infrastructure and with far less corruption.
Football not footing the bill
While only a few minutes' drive from scenic South Central L.A. it is a pricier neighborhood than anywhere in Norman, Oklahoma or South Bend; imagine Palo Alto w/ more smog. As Steve explained it's no surprise Woods experiences sticker shock, since he obviously didn't factor that into his "academic decision" to serve at the Univ. of Spoiled Children (although yeah, of course, Woods comes from the southern area near the municipal "shoestring" and should've known better, etc.--the Trojans recruited him and they *certainly* should have known better) Whether or not the guy is agitating for something more, the athletic dept. is Enron-level incompetent if they don't watch out for their "stars" to even this extent and offer to step in and free him from household economics, or at least fix his meal plan...
They get paid after they leave, Troofie. I would hazard a guess that a higher percentage of college kids from Hockey East schools play professional hockey than SEC kids play pro football. Football players are limited to the NFL; hockey players have the Euro market, which isn't the NHL but pays a nice wage. I had some classmates who played overseas and did quite well.
As for the profs, well, they were already there for the rest of us.
Funny thing about the Deadspin spam link above--didn't realize Nick Denton was reading you, Steve--is that the Courtney Upshaw gf in question lived up admirably to the stereotype of collegiate WAG (brunette though). Both of them ended up spending the night in jail and her Facebook photos became subsequently popular. I recall one that sported her very own initials tattooed in the starboard-stern region... Upshaw is certain to be drafted next year so at least he got a head-start preparation on the unique problems of athletic professional men.
Bottom line, college athletic departments just need to be dismantled, root and branch.
Yeah yeah yeah.
You go on and on how college football generates revenue to pay the scholarships for smart but poor White kids.
If it's all about revenue, a casino would generate just as easily, for far less expense in infrastructure and with far less corruption.
Trying to dismantle the football infrastructure at most schools would result in a mob lynching.
Isn't that a violation of NCAA rules?
Since when has that ever mattered?
From NFL.com. Of course any mirror images of this story would be unprintable.
"Packers' Nelson says being white helps him thrive at receiver"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82439d28/article/packers-nelson-says-being-white-helps-him-thrive-at-receiver?module=HP11_content_stream
Football players are limited to the NFL
And Canadian football.
"If it's all about revenue, a casino would generate just as easily, for far less expense in infrastructure and with far less corruption."
And how, exactly, would the 12 SEC teams building competing casinos foster the collegiate "strong mind HEALTHY BODY" ideal?
One thing that objective intellectuals realize. JSM, is that there is a cause and effect to every result, and a cause and effect to every cause and effect. The greater the level of intellect, the deeper one may go into the "cause and effect abyss."
"They get paid after they leave, Troofie."
So you are against college athletes getting paid, great. Any comparison between SEC football and ECAC hockey is similar to a comparison between an '87 Yugo and a McLaren Formula One Automobile -- they're both cars.
We're not talking about a program that draws 9,000 fans, 22 times a year at $15 a head plus parking and hot dogs, we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars in TV revenue, stadiums that seat 102,000 fans, memorabilla marketing that continues long after the athlete ceases playing for the university,
(Go to Auburn today and you still se Bo Jackson jerseys in the bookstore) and video game deals that electronically mimic the players athletic ability and mannerisms...all without playing the players a dime.
This is in addition to ancillary benefits such as increase enrollment and outreach garnered through successful football and basketball teams (look it up).
This revenue is of course, not used only for the football program, but to keep "novelty" sports programs alive, and to enhance the reputation of STEM programs (amongst the schools that have made the most widely-accepted academic progress of the last 40 years; Alabama and Florida, with Miami U. possibly the most improved academic institution in America over that period of time.)
There are no easy answers to highly complex questions.
Anti-Gnostic said...
Bottom line, college athletic departments just need to be dismantled, root and branch.
Ah, the eternal, tortured wail of the nerd.
Anon 11:50-CFL: 9 teams, 42 players per team with half the spots reserved for Canadian citizens, 19 regular season games, 4.5 million dollars PER TEAM salary cap, rookie base salary $42K!!! Some D-1 studs get more money in college...
Troofie, ECAC Hockey?! Which century are you in? But my comment was to your statement that other sports aren't revenue positive, not by how much, straw man.
I think i'm in the right one:
http://www.ecachockey.com/splash/index
amongst the schools that have made the most widely-accepted academic progress of the last 40 years; Alabama and Florida, with Miami U. possibly the most improved academic institution in America over that period of time.
Can we see some cites for that, sport?
I wonder if a college benefits more on a per capital basis from the old scholar-athlete (HYP, CalTech, Small Liberal Arts Colleges) model or the semi-pro athlete model (LSU, Alabama, etc)?
Wouldn't a student who actually played, gutted it out and bonded with a sports team like LaCross at Duke or even a HYP football team be more passionate about their school experience and more likely to donate than some jock-sniffing football spectator alum of LSU?
Granted there are a lot of big sport jock-sniffing spectators at these big public Us. Perhaps semi-pro athletes and big sports is the the only/best way big Us can build a sense loyalty among their alumni.
Colleges like Stanford and Duke seem to walk the line.
As far as revenue, my understanding is that semi-pro big college sports are money losers overall despite the top teams earning a lot (Texas, UGa and UPenn the top 3 revenue makers).
"As far as revenue, my understanding is that semi-pro big college sports are money losers overall despite the top teams earning a lot (Texas, UGa and UPenn the top 3 revenue makers)."
Shirley you meant Penn State. UPenn is a 2nd -tier Ivy League school with no BigMoney sports or child-rape scandals to speak of.
Wasn't The Hungry Football Player the name of a popular children's book?
Hungry, Hungry Football Player.
Question: I hate to be "that guy" but the beginning of your q--"old scholar-athlete (HYP, CalTech, Small Liberal Arts Colleges) model or the semi-pro athlete model (LSU, Alabama, etc)"--is riddled with false dilemmata, excluded middles, or some similar term I'd have learned in college. Caltech probably has a football team, although I can't imagine what it's like at the moment; most "small LAC" in the Williams or Haverford sense, just can't afford it period. Even within HYP or PHY or etc. there is variation, as well as divergence over time; Princeton for a long time had a formidable basketball team. But their division disallows athletic scholarships so the idea of "UGa vs UPenn" is rendered preposterous and obviates any useful comparison. Stanford & Duke, being relatively new institutions that view their national-level athletics as ROI rather than frittering away money, are structurally devolved into collaborating fiefdoms, similar to Michigan or Cal Berkeley for the gov't counterexamples. It probably does hurt the snob appeal of their diplomas (in Stanford's case, not by much) but 5 or 10 bil in endowment $ is also nice.
Football serves a useful function at some of the Southern and Midwestern College factories like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Alabama, Old Miss, etc.
It not only creates alumni loyalty it helps the reputation of the school. It shouldn't but it does.
The elite Ivies don't need sports & the smaller less endowed schools can't afford them.
I believe a significant chunk of the Sony/ATV catalogue, which included the Beatles' stuff, is now controlled by Fortress Investment Group and particularly its Drawbridge Special Opportunities Fund, which took it as collateral on a colossal loan it bought from BoA in the mid-2000s.
Off topic:
How about some Sailerian analysis of this year's Rhodes Scholars?
http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/uploads/2011_Winners_List.pdf
* almost exactly 50 percent male/female
* unbelievably SWPL in the ambitious do-gooderism of organizations founded, initiatives led, etc.
that guy said...
Caltech probably has a football team, although I can't imagine what it's like at the moment;
CalTech's football team went undefeated and unscored upon in 1944. It has been undefeated since 1993.
That was the year they discontinued the program. However, CalTech does seem to be actively promote true scholar-athlete sports there. Of 900 undergrads, 210 (23%) are on at least one of the 17 varsity sports teams.
"I think the Caltech athletic experience is best summed up by the expression 'process over product,'" says Jack. "What that means is that the students think of their experience in athletics as one that emphasizes the individual enjoyment of practice, preparation, hard work, the spirit of competition, and so on, but doesn't necessarily include trying to become a star athlete, or winning a championship as a top goal.
Haverford and Williams wiki don't list varsity participation rates. Haverford lists only 7 generally highly competitive sports, but Williams appears uniquely athletic being #1 academically among small lib art schools by USNWR and #1 athletically by D3NCAA rankings 2004-2011 with 50% participation in varsity or formal club sport.
Picking 2 small liberal arts colleges at random: Grinnell College has ~33% of it's 1688 students (~562) compete in one of the 20 varsity sports teams and Occidental has ~25% compete in one of 21 varsity sports teams. This does not include the more common club and intermural sports.
In contrast, LSU fields 21 varsity sports team for about 24,000 students or approximately 600/24,000= 2.5% which is probably par for the course.
No doubt, large elite colleges like HYP fall somewhere inbetween, closer to large public schools due to scale. Interestingly, Harvard offers no scholarships for their 41 varsity D1 sports teams which number as the most among any D1 college in the US.
Stanford & Duke, being relatively new institutions that view their national-level athletics as ROI
Hard to believe any womens sport or most mens sports are directly profitable unless you count them as advertising and brand building. Even then, it's hard to argue most sports like womans field hockey provide Duke or Stanford with a positive ROI.
Grinnell is a rich school due to early investments in Intel and Buffett's firm. Its basketball coach always plays hurry-up basketball so everybody gets to score. A typical Grinnell game will have 17 players scoring with 8 in double figures. And they'll probably lose 125-114, but a good time will be had by all.
Bottom line, college athletic departments just need to be dismantled, root and branch.
Ah, the eternal, tortured wail of the nerd.
Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can be appalled at the inherent contradictions and distortions of college athletics?
Why shouldn't they be paid for their hard work, skills,
Why shouldn't nerds be paid (in more ways than money) for their hard work and skills too?
and assumption of the risk of serious injury?
Like getting beaten up for being unpopular?
Japan and China do well enough without all this jock bullshit.
Troofie, what part of HOCKEY EAST didn't you understand? The ECAC is the Ivy League and the flotsam and jetsam hockey schools added to pad the schedule as the real hockey powers left. It's been 30 years since an ECAC school even made it to the NCAA finals.
Football serves a useful function at some of the Southern and Midwestern College factories like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Alabama, Old Miss, etc.
It not only creates alumni loyalty it helps the reputation of the school.
My impression is that football reputation is generally anti-correlated with academic rigour.
Curious, I list the USNWR ranking in () of the current top 20 ranked BCS schools.
1. LSU (#128)
2. Alabama (#75)
3. Arkansas (2nd tier, unpub)
4. OkState (#132)
5. VA Tech (#71)
6. Stanford (#5)
7. Boise St. (regional, #67)
8. Houston (2nd tier, unpub)
9. Ok (#101)
10. Ore (#101)
11. KS St (#143)
12. S.Car (#111)
13. GA (#62)
14. MI St. (#71)
15. Mich (#28)
16. Wisc (#42)
17. Clemson (#68)
18. Baylor (#75)
19. PSU (#45)
20. TCU (#97)
Then I did the reverse, listing the top 20 USNWR ranked schools with their current BCS ranking in (). NOTE: the pro-private/anti-public university slant of USNWR rankings slighly exaggerate the anticorrelation trend by omitting top public universities like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan and Virgina.
1. Harvard (not D1)
1. Princeton (not D1)
3. Yale (not D1)
4. Columbia (not D1)
5. CalTech (not D1)
5. MIT (not D1)
5. Stanford (#6)
5. UChi (not D1)
5. UPenn (not D1)
10. Duke (#94)
11. Dartmouth (not D1)
12. Northwestern (#64)
13. JohnHopkins (not D1)
14. WashU (not D1)
15. Brown (not D1)
15. Cornell (not D1)
17. Rice (not D1)
17. Vanderbilt (#60)
19. NotreDame (#22)
20. Emory (not D1)
The results were as expected. In general, rich and smart universities/colleges generally have poor football programs and visa-versa.
Now is national basketball ranking more or less anti-correlated with USNWR ranking?
Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can be appalled at the inherent contradictions and distortions of college athletics?
The wild popularity of college sports would suggest not.
Has it entered your head that even non-nerds can be appalled at the inherent contradictions and distortions of college athletics?
The wild popularity of college sports would suggest not.
"Professional" wresting and cash advance paycheck stores are also very popular. What does that say about the wisdom of crowds?
Football *fanaticism* is a class marker like tats and smokes. Football crazies just include the mass cultural middle class as well as the core lower classes. Note the inverse relationship above between elite colleges (the best avenue to the powerful and connected) and elite BCS football programs.
Sure, there is the oddball lower/middle class who makes a fortune and wastes some of it on his state college football team like OkStU. However, their offspring will be generally be more well-bred and pour the old man's money into curing tropical diseases abroad, closing the ed gap at home or become an patron of the arts.
You certainly don't see high-IQ fortune makers or holders like Gates, Buffet or Soros pouring their money into "college" sports.
That's not to be anti-sport or the important lessons one can learn from participating in team or individual competition. It's just putting spectator football into perspective of as the entertainment it is.
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