When reading about Jeremy Lin, I often get the impression that sportswriters' memories of history look like this: "Uh, cavemen, pyramids, Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali," and then a game-by-game recollection of everything from the 2001-2002 season onwards.
The reality is that a lot has been forgotten because it didn't particularly lead anywhere the way Jackie Robinson did.
Here is a picture of a player who won the Most Valuable Player award of a major American professional sports league during the 1960s. His father was Asian. And he had a Spanish surname.
He even had a minor league movie and TV career for a few years. He made his TV debut on Gilligan's Island as "a native." This movie still is from the 1969 John Wayne Western The Undefeated, in which he was fourth-billed as Wayne's American Indian right hand man.His father was Filipino, his mother Irish. He seemed to get his size genes from his mom's side of the family, because he was famous for being perhaps the first huge quarterback, listed at 6'5" and 220 pounds, which was enormous for a quarterback at the time. (His archrival Fran Tarkenton, for instance, was 6-0 and 200.) He threw very hard, with a tight burning spiral. By the standards of his day, he was seldom intercepted, but his receivers had difficulty hanging onto his passes as well.
After starring at North Carolina St., he was the #2 overall draft choice in the 1962 NFL draft. He went on to be the NFL's 1969 MVP as quarterback of the Los Angeles Rams. He was a Pro Bowler coach George Allen's Rams in 1967, 1968, 1969, and for Philadelphia in 1973. In other words, he was real good -- not a Hall of Famer, but a big time NFL quarterback in his day.
His name is Roman Gabriel.
As far as I can tell, however, Gabriel's career did not lead to a major breakthrough of part-Southeast Asians into the NFL.
By the way, I think the stereotype of Asian-Americans as violin-playing non-athletes has gotten stronger, not weaker over my lifetime, due to academic-selected immigration and increased Tiger Mothering. When I was a kid, Orientals were seen as short, but, after the Recent Unpleasantness at places like Iwo Jima, not necessarily delicate.
For example, the New York Knicks drafted a Japanese-American basketball player out of Utah in 1947 (and then cut him after three games).
For example, the New York Knicks drafted a Japanese-American basketball player out of Utah in 1947 (and then cut him after three games).
Or, the Japanese-American family who moved in across the street from me in 1969 were tough athletes. The dad was a high school wrestling coach and assistant football coach and both sons became all-league high school football players. (The father, an extremely friendly fellow with a frightening tough guy face and martial arts skills, enjoyed a profitable sideline playing ninjas, Yakuza henchmen, and Shaolin assassins in movies and TV shows like "Kung-Fu.") This was seen as a little unusual at the time, but not really extraordinary.
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Reasonably good NFL quarterback. Rams vs 49ers, Brodie vs Gabriel -- early '70s. Had forgotten about the rest (acting etc) in the years since.
A guy that size and that looks like that with an exotic but not really Asiatic sounding name probably didn't strike anyone as being half-Filipino.
Also "Gabriel" isn't just a Spanish surname. It can also be from other continental European countries as well as Lebanese.
He's not exactly half-Asian. You might say 1/4th but that would be assuming much about his filipina mother's ancestry.
Why push this so hard?
The most amazing Asian-descended athlete in my opinion is the former UFC light-heavyweight champion, Lyoto Machida. He went for 16 fights undefeated in the UFC, a record. He combined explosive striking with unbelieavable elusiveness and supreme takedown defenses which made it almost impossible for wrestlers to take him down. He is a fifth degree black belt in Karate and a black belt in BJJ.
The most amazing fight in the UFC was the fight that earned him the UFC light-heavyweight belt, against the black American wrestler and boxer, Rashad Evans. Machida frustrated all of Evans takedown attempt, who is an all-American collegiate wrestling champion, and then destroyed him in a pure boxing match, using his karate footwork to elude Evans'strikes and then moving in with a blitz of jabs to Evans' chin and nose making him go to sleep. Just an unbelieavable fight. Rashad is the typical black American athlete, with enormous muscles and very low bodyfat. But it made no difference to Machida and the latter completely outclassed Evans. Machida is descended of Samurais on his father's side, so fighting is in his blood.
He last fight against a black American didn't end well for him, though. He was strangled to unconsciousness by Jon Jones, the phenom arguably considered the most talented overall MMA fighter in the World - although others would say GSP or Anderson Silva. Oh well, at least Machida was the only fighter so far to even give Jones a fight.
There's Timmy Chang, who was QB for the Univ of Hawaii Rainbow Warriors (changed to just Warriors 10 yrs ago) a decade ago. I believe Chang is mixed Chinese and native Hawaiian descent.
Chang is the NCAA's all-time leader in passing yards and holds several other records. He was undrafted but signed with Arizona and rode the bench for a few NFL teams before playing in the CFL and retiring.
I know this isn't the Onion, however, I have my suspicions this story is Onion Dip. Looks an awful lot like some white guy with heavy tanning makeup on.
Raymond Townsend was the first filipino american to play in the nba.
From the IMDB bio: Roman Gabriel, Jr. was born on August 5, 1940 in Wilmington, North Carolina, the son of a Filippino immigrant who came to the U.S. in 1925, and his Irish-American wife.
The Roissy/Heartiste/Mystery/Whiskey crowd would probably be most interested in the fact that a Filipino would have been able to snag a white chick for a wife.
From the "Game" perspective, maybe Asians really did have a higher "T" back then [or at least a higher perceived "T"].
"He's not exactly half-Asian. You might say 1/4th but that would be assuming much about his filipina mother's ancestry.
Why push this so hard?"
You really need to read before you respond. His mother was Irish. The father was Asian. Since we do not know details about the Fillipino ancestry -- the vast majority I've seen appear mostly or all Asian. I once knew a half-Japanese man whose appearance was even less Asian than Gabriel's. The Asian dad did not like the son and brutalized him. The mother did not take up for him and son bamed her (naturally.) Sometimes I wonder why people do these interracial things when they can't handle, and don't really even want, the consequences.
"I know this isn't the Onion, however, I have my suspicions this story is Onion Dip. Looks an awful lot like some white guy with heavy tanning makeup on.
2/20/12 1:39 AM"
Maybe you are the Onion?
Roman Gabriel has been a very big name for many decades. I don't follow sports, I don't care about sports, I don't like most sports; but even I know that name, that it's been around from way back, and even I know he's been involved in entertainment other than football.
Well-known active baseball player Johnny Damon is half-Thai and no one seems to care about that. Asians, like Native Americans and unlike blacks, seem (at least in recent decades) to be neither victims nor beneficiaries of a one-drop rule.
When I was a kid, Orientals were seen as short, but, after the Recent Unpleasantness at places like Iwo Jima, not necessarily delicate.
More recently we've done plenty of fighting with Arabs and other Muslims, yet no one thinks of them as hard-bodied natural athletes.
That guys looks like Chuck Connors with a Tan and black hair dye.
chuck
What?? I grew up in LA and thought Gabriel was black.. I guess I got him mixed up with Rosie Greer. The Rams were kinda meh by then, and it was hipper to follow USC.
I met Fran Tarkenton once, he was more like 5'9 1/2 175.
That guys looks like Chuck Connors with a Tan and black hair dye.
This could be a new reverse-euphemism for iSteve, like "The Full Bullock."
I.e., when the usual suspects start gushing about "Hispanic" or "Latino" actors, what they really mean is Chuck Connors With A Tan And Black Hair Dye.
This guy, not this guy.
"The most amazing Asian-descended athlete in my opinion is the former UFC light-heavyweight champion, Lyoto Machida...."
Go Little Engine That Could! I Think I Can I Think I Can!
Your post, in just explained the whole Asian (and to a lesser extent, white athlete delima in microcosm, and you didn't even realize it.
There are weight classes in the UFC and Evans and Machida are the same size, Machida is even taller, so why should this result be so remarkable? You looked at two guys and assumed that one was a better athlete. Then with Jones, you fell back to the whole Henry Cooper, Jerry Quarry thing; "well, at least he put a good fight against the ape for a round and a half!"
Understand one thing, Sport, and understand it good; YOU and people like you, are the reason that Jeremy Lin did not get more scholarship offers, and was not drafted. After all most college basketball head and assistant coaches, NBA coaches and GMs are of the caucazoid persuasion.
"The Roissy/Heartiste/Mystery/Whiskey crowd would probably be most interested in the fact that a Filipino would have been able to snag a white chick for a wife.maybe Asians really did have a higher "T" back then"
Well that was quick...
Thread
Thread>>>>>>>>>SHARK>>>>>>>>>>Thread
"Well-known active baseball player Johnny Damon is half-Thai and no one seems to care about that. Asians, like Native Americans and unlike blacks, seem (at least in recent decades) to be neither victims nor beneficiaries of a one-drop rule."
Yeah, HALF being the operative word there. You don't have posters of your ethnic compatriots Malclom Gladwell or Halle Berry up, now do you?
There are plenty of Asians in major league baseball, most of them Japanese but also some from Korea and Taiwan(Chien-Ming Wang).
The greatest of them is undoubtedly Ichiro. He has won an AL MVP and several batting titles.
I would never have thought Tarkenton was as tall as 6'. Wow. I always thought of him as rather smallish, maybe 5'10" tops. I guess because he was such a scrabbler, I assumed such a thing.
"Well-known active baseball player Johnny Damon is half-Thai and no one seems to care about that."
I don't think most baseball fans know this. He just looked, for much of his career with that bad hair, like a not-so-attractive white guy.
Gabriel was a handsome guy. I also recall rumors that he was gay. I've no idea if that was an urban myth or not.
More annoyance. We could have a South Indian, Lebanese, Mexican, etc QB with no one on either side of the ethnic/racial divide acting as if the significance extends beyond it being an interesting fact about the person with athletic ability. In the case of Mexicans, I'd say their typical body type would be even less suitable for athleticism than stocky, muscular Asians. Yet there are plenty of hispanic athletes who never insist their success qualifies them for world domination.
WRT filipinos as Asians. Most of them appear to be intermediate between hispanic and Asian which goes to genotype. Offspring of filipinos and caucasians will have no more Asian ancestry than Tiger Wood's children. In fact, there will probably be less than 1/4th.
Half-Asian is a misnomer here.
I find it difficult to believe Sailer is desperately promoting the idea that stocky, muscular Asians who have a history of competing in sports like volleyball and ping pong have made some amazing breakthrough by entering sports dominated by blacks.
Though the stereotypical Asian is a gracile, obviously there are plenty of mesomorphs, both male and female, in the population. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for people who are achieving in martial arts and tennis to combine sufficient strength and size to compete with stereotypical larger races, especially through intermarriage with a caucasian or african.
This isn't all that spectacular an achievement. Mexicans, who are very comparable body-wise, beat them to it. I predict that Asian percentage representation in the various pro-sports will be very similar to hispanics without African admixture.
Aren't Filipinos pretty much bi-racial to begin with?
Asian American men DID seem to have more "T" back then. I suppose much of it was the image of the Asians from Hawaii (before the mainland was flooded in 1965 with Asian immigrants whose intent was to send their children to college.) The first Asian in the NFL was Walter Achiu from Hawaii (played with Dayton Triangles in 1927). Followed by Wally Kaname Yonamine (also from Hawaii) who played for the 49ers in 1947. At one point in 1948 the U.S. Olympic Weightlifting team consisted of FOUR Asian Americans, including Harold (Oddjob) Sakata. This was way out of proportion to the population of Asian Americans. A mainland Asian American of note was Tommy Kono who broke weightlifting records in the 50's. I imagine Asian men back then were seen as tough brutes.
Guys like that Japanese-American family man are a dime a dozen here in Hawaii. There are so many East Asians here, they fill out all social niches, down to the rural redneck analogue: "If your fishing boat garage is story higher than your house, you might be Japanese from Hawaii." "If one of your sons is a college professor and the other grows "medical marijuana" and hunts pigs, you might be Japanese from Hawaii."
That's not to say that Asians in Hawaii didn't have a nerdy or academic rep. They did and still do. It's just that they weren't "soft" or disdained athletic or outdoorsy activities.
Also, I went to school with Brian Ching. We're both from the North Shore. Even when he was a kid he was unbelievably athletic. Kamehameha Schools has an incredibly intense P.E. program (developed after it was noted that Hawaiians tended to be obese and die of heart disease and diabetes) that included running a half-marathon freshman year in order to receive a passing grade. He was first place by far.
Can we count Jim Thorpe as semi-Asian?
No one has mentioned Michael Chang yet? He's as typical as the small, fast running retriever type who can manage to win a slam or two before they slow down. Lleyton Hewitt is another example.
I don't know any (recent) examples of players in that mould of players who are unable to really dictate play and have won more than a slam or two very early in their career.
Interesting thing about Chang, the man finally got married and (ostensibly) lost his virginity at 36.
Michael Chang was another devout Christian type.
I wonder if Christianity makes Asians more interested in sports?
(I base this on noting how Koreans are the most Christian of Asians and have the most interest in the military, especially going to the academies.)
@Truth
Go Little Engine That Could! I Think I Can I Think I Can!
Your post, in just explained the whole Asian (and to a lesser extent, white athlete delima in microcosm, and you didn't even realize it.
There are weight classes in the UFC and Evans and Machida are the same size, Machida is even taller, so why should this result be so remarkable? You looked at two guys and assumed that one was a better athlete. Then with Jones, you fell back to the whole Henry Cooper, Jerry Quarry thing; "well, at least he put a good fight against the ape for a round and a half!"
Understand one thing, Sport, and understand it good; YOU and people like you, are the reason that Jeremy Lin did not get more scholarship offers, and was not drafted. After all most college basketball head and assistant coaches, NBA coaches and GMs are of the caucazoid persuasion."
This post is very incoherent. I can't tell if you are praising Machida or deriding him.
Anyway, it wasn't surprising that Machida beat Evans to ME. I even said that people assumed Evans would win because he is more muscular and black. It was surpsing to other people, but not to me.
As for Machida vs Jones, I said that I was surprised that Machida won a round against Jones not because Jones is black and Machida of Asian descent, but because Jones is a MONSTER with a ridiculous 84" reach and that he has decimated everyone he fought against. Machida winning a round againt Jones surprised me not because of his and Jones race, but because Jones is really, REALLY good. He could move up to the HW division and beat everyone except for maybe JDS, Carwin, Overeem and Cain.
"This post is very incoherent. I can't tell if you are praising Machida or deriding him."
Neither praising, nor deriding him, deriding your rather simplistic reminisence of the fight:
"Rashad is the typical black American athlete, with enormous muscles and very low bodyfat. But it made no difference to Machida and the latter completely outclassed Evans. Machida is descended of Samurais on his father's side, so fighting is in his blood."
One 200 lb. guy has "enormous muscles and low body fat" another 200 lb. guy has "Samurais on his father's side, so fighting is in his blood."
Indeed.
So the mystical underdog, who is the third son of the highly ranked head of the Brazilian branch of the Japan Karate Association, Shotokan karate master Yoshizo Machida, and began training in karate at age three, became the most amazing "Asian-descended athlete" by defeating big muscled low body fat guy who wrestled, (and played football) in high school.
Then he gets choked almost to death from a half-inch away by another high-school wrestler (with an 84" reach!) who has been training for MMA for four years, and is about the same weight he is, but manages to actually land a punch!
Yeah, that Jerry Quarry fella almost landed one on Ali too, in Atlanta in 1971, I was there, I tell ya!
9:40 EST news flash:
The evil empire (headed by Darth Deron Williams) strikes back!
LATEST: Nets win, Linsanity over, Asians head back to library.
The best white team would always beat the best black team (coached and trained by blacks). Whites are simply better at team basketball.
Black players mostly can only really play one-on-one style basketball. Even the best black players like Jordan needed white players who were smart and could play team basketball and minimize mistakes.
Half asian. Half irish. He didnt have to worry about his pants being too tight.
A lot of Mongolians are freakish giants, see Mengke Bateer and Bao Xishun
"The best white team would always beat the best black team (coached and trained by blacks). Whites are simply better at team basketball."
Somehow, I tend to doubt it...
http://www.northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/450/entry/
@Truth
"One 200 lb. guy has "enormous muscles and low body fat" another 200 lb. guy has "Samurais on his father's side, so fighting is in his blood."
Indeed.
So the mystical underdog, who is the third son of the highly ranked head of the Brazilian branch of the Japan Karate Association, Shotokan karate master Yoshizo Machida, and began training in karate at age three, became the most amazing "Asian-descended athlete" by defeating big muscled low body fat guy who wrestled, (and played football) in high school.
Then he gets choked almost to death from a half-inch away by another high-school wrestler (with an 84" reach!) who has been training for MMA for four years, and is about the same weight he is, but manages to actually land a punch!
Yeah, that Jerry Quarry fella almost landed one on Ali too, in Atlanta in 1971, I was there, I tell ya!"
Again, I can't really tell whether you are praising him or deriding him. You absolutely SUCK at irony and your English is terrible.
Somehow, I tend to doubt it...
You doubt it because you're black - you're biased and you're unable to understand that one game doesn't prove anything.
If you had any integrity, and you were actually interested in the truth, you'd be supportive of experimental means to test the hypothesis - separate social and basketball and training infrastructure for whites to develop white talent and teams.
Somehow, I tend to doubt it...
You doubt it because of a single game from 1944....
Good team basketball is superior to one-on-one play. And whites are better at team basketball and have the natural skills and abilities that allow for better team play (intelligence, discipline, strength, hand-eye coordination, etc.). In mixed environments, all the different gene-culture complexes can't express themselves. Just like how you don't have genuine "diversity" but homogenization.
If there was an actual experiment run where white and black talent pools and their own training and development infrastructure and coaching staff were set up in controlled environments and then teams were created out of them to compete against each other, then there's no question that the white teams would always win.
"You doubt it because you're black - you're biased and you're unable to understand that one game doesn't prove anything."
He said that the best white team would ALWAYS beat the best black team. I may have an 85 IQ, but I do know what ALWAYS means. I also know what 88-44 means.
but that's ok, we'll play along:
http://www.mmbolding.com/basketball/Globetrotters.htm
"you'd be supportive of experimental means to test the hypothesis - separate social and basketball and training infrastructure for whites to develop white talent and teams."
They already have those experimental means, they're called, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota...
Yeah, HALF being the operative word there. You don't have posters of your ethnic compatriots Malclom Gladwell or Halle Berry up, now do you?
Before Magic and Michael showed up, the best-selling sports poster of all-time was the George Gervin "iceman" poster, which of course was bought mostly by whites. You've got to break that Sharptonesque whining habit, Truth.
They already have those experimental means, they're called, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota...
You don't seem to understand how science works.
Those examples wouldn't test the hypothesis.
You need controlled environments. But that's not what you want. You want black players organized and trained by white methods and organization.
"Before Magic and Michael showed up, the best-selling sports poster of all-time was the George Gervin "iceman" poster, which of course was bought mostly by whites."
Helene, I was going to re-post the original post, re-iterate what I said and re-explain myself, as I do here at least, oh, 3x a week, but I just don't have the energy right now, you're on your own.
"You need controlled environments."
They are controlled environments, they are white areas, with white coaches, white players, white trainers, etc. How many championships has BYU won, how many did John Thompson win at Georgetown? Nolan Richardson at Arkansas?
They are controlled environments
Again, you don't understand how science works.
Those aren't the controlled environments that would test the hypothesis.
The best white athletes don't go to Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, etc.
Thompson and Richardson were trained by whites.
There is absolutely nothing in the real world that can test the hypothesis. From the standpoint of science, there aren't sufficient controls, they're contaminated environments, not controlled ones.
I did not say WENT to Idaho, Montana, etc. I said GREW UP in said places. And there are many NFL and NBA hall of famers, Earl Monroe, Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Buck Buchanon, etc. who are from BLACK neighborhoods and BLACK colleges, that only stopped when WHITE colleges starting offering their eye teeth to get them.
It isn't that complicated.
Don't forget about Tedy Bruschi, linebacker for the Patriots and three time Super Bowl champ. He's also half Filipino and White(Italian).
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