Although the New York Times hasn't yet gotten around to covering the recent pogrom in Tel Aviv against black "illegal infiltrators" (here's video footage of the riot -- not all that violent as far as race riots go), Abraham H. Foxman, head of the Anti-Defamation League, issued the following statement today:
We are seriously concerned about the growing tensions in Israel over the issue of African migrants, and reports of lawlessness and violence committed by and directed against the migrants. We call on all parties to work to calm the tensions, and welcome Prime Minister Netanyahu's condemnation of the inflammatory comments and the violence and his commitment to resolving this crisis responsibly.
While we recognize the complexity involved in properly addressing this issue, and sympathize with Israeli citizens whose personal security has been compromised by the lawlessness and violence of some migrants, we are disturbed by inflammatory public statements made by certain Israeli officials, some of which has veered into racism. These statements are counterproductive and only serve to further inflame tensions.
The role of Israeli law enforcement officials is vital in ensuring the safety of all, controlling lawlessness and violence and enforcing the rule of law.
It is imperative that reasonable solutions be found to confront these challenges, one that humanly treats the migrants while ensuring the security concerns of Israeli citizens are properly addressed.
A reasonable statement ...
Oddly enough, Foxman's tone regarding violent resistance to immigration in Israel today is more understanding and less harsh than his May 2, 2010 statement regarding nonviolent, democratic, legal resistance to immigration in America:
Arizona Law Endangers America's Immigrant Heritage
One of the oldest debates in America has been on the issue of what the nation's immigration policy should be. Should it be fair and compassionate? Should it be restrictive?
In the past, as now, nativism, bigotry and fear of competition from foreign workers dulled the collective American memory of its own immigrant history and democratic ideals. Then, as now, the drums of anti-foreigner slogans are beat in an effort to make the case for a restrictive immigration policy.
... Today, unfortunately, Kennedy's "spacious society" is being closed in and darkness is enveloping Reagan's "shining city." There is no harmony and peace -- especially in Arizona. Instead, there is hate, fear, and xenophobia.
Much has been said about Arizona's new law, which requires the police to demand proof of legal residency from residents who arouse suspicion. The police do not need probable cause to suspect a crime has been committed -- anyone who "looks foreign" can be stopped. The law virtually invites the police to harass and intimidate Hispanics and other minorities. Obviously, it discourages minority victims of and witnesses to hate crimes from coming forward and helping local law enforcement solve those crimes. It gives untrained state and local police officers the responsibility for enforcing immigration law even though such responsibilities interfere with their responsibility to keep the peace. The law even encourages people to sue the police if they believe immigration laws are not being enforced.
Of course, the Arizona law was not enacted in a vacuum. The immigration debate has become a flashpoint for racists, white supremacists, neo-Nazis and other extremists who blame immigrants for all of our nation's problems. It is a very short distance from that sort of rhetoric to vigilantism. When mainstream figures start expressing the same bigotry, filling the airwaves and the Internet with hateful and incendiary talk, an atmosphere is created for incivility and pernicious legislation is not far behind.
The Arizona law is probably unconstitutional, and will be challenged in the courts. But all of us have a responsibility to look in the mirror and say -- how could such a mean-spirited measure become law in this country? Do we really want our nation to resemble societies where anyone can be stopped on the streets at any time, at the slightest whim, and be asked for identification papers?
The Arizona approach to addressing the current immigration crisis is the wrong approach. It happened at a time when our nation is deeply divided along partisan lines. The time has come for Congress to demonstrate bipartisan leadership, condemn xenophobia, and enact comprehensive immigration reform that has an appropriate balance of fairness, compassion, and security.
Abraham H. Foxman is National Director of the Anti-Defamation League. He and his parents immigrated to the United States in 1950.
Is it really asking too much of Mr. Foxman that he someday attempt to view his fellow citizens in Arizona with some of the same understanding he applies to his fellow ethnics in Israel?
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82 comments:
While we recognize the complexity involved in properly addressing this issue, and sympathize with Israeli citizens whose personal security has been compromised by the lawlessness and violence of some migrants, we are disturbed by inflammatory public statements made by certain Israeli officials, some of which has veered into racism.
Good for him for speaking out. Although I wish he could express some of the same sympathy for people in the West generally, and whites specifically in regards to third world immigration and home-grown black on white crime.
We are seriously concerned about the growing tensions in Israel over the issue of African migrants, and reports of lawlessness and violence committed by and directed against the migrants.
It is imperative that reasonable solutions be found to confront these challenges, one that humanly treats the migrants
Does someone know whether Foxman refers to illegal infiltrators in the United States as "migrants"? It would be interesting if he referred to them instead as immigrants or undocumented immigrants.
Why are Africans in Israel in the first place? I mean, why?
The default assumption of most Westerners PARTICULARLY deeply assimilated Jews like Foxman is that Western societies EVEN ISRAEL has no right or ability to enforce their borders, that anyone can move anywhere and live anywhere as they please, according to their own custom. This is a deeply post-Christian viewpoint, that Foxman expresses it is a function of his assimilation (and negatively, in that its profoundly stupid) into the post-modern idiocies of post-Christian Western elites.
Yeah, its more important to morally posture about Africans as some status symbol than care about elderly Holocaust survivors now victimized by Africans. NOT EVEN FOXMAN will side with his own people. That's how bad it is, and the power of moral posturing.
The "good news" is that a global and lasting recession/depression is pretty much baked into the cake, and lifeboat ethics (what will peoples do to survive) will kill off that moral posturing.
The Road Ahead for Immigration Reform
By Abraham Foxman
...
Passed in 2010, the Arizona law was the first in a wave of harsh state immigration laws that are having detrimental consequences on industry, citizens, and documented and undocumented immigrants alike.
...
And, of course, there's The Ugly: The stereotypes, hateful rhetoric, and dehumanizing language about Hispanics, Latinos or immigrants we've seen surrounding the issue, especially during the past year, threaten to derail meaningful reform and taint the national discussion.
...
The climate of bias and hostility toward immigrants that pervades the immigration debate hurts our country and stands in the way of the kind of reform Americans desperately seek to the broken immigration system.
Our own experience in the Jewish community has taught us that when a society begins to distinguish a group as less deserving of rights, then discrimination, exploitation, and worse can follow. The current system fails more than just immigrants seeking opportunity and fair treatment.
Read entire article here.
Why does Foxman take pains to refer to foreigners in Israel as "migrants" while he refers to foreigners in the United States as "immigrants"?
What difference does the "im" make?
Mr. Foxman is a pre-Christian not a post-Christian.
Mr. Netanyahu will act responsibly by ordering the immediate transfer and holding of the vulnerable Africans at a purpose built Negev desert storage facility in order to prevent any further outbreak of violence. The protected persons will no doubt enjoy the 107 degree July weather, very similar to their homeland.
"migrants"= just passing through, nothing to see here.
"immigrants"= ______ __ _____ ______ __ _____ ___ ____
It is strange how 'xenophobe' shows up several times in the America one, and not once in the Israel one. Although, 'racism' does appear once.
Why does Foxman take pains to refer to foreigners in Israel as "migrants" while he refers to foreigners in the United States as "immigrants"?
What difference does the "im" make?
Because "immigrant" has a certain psychological effect. It triggers certain associations in people. After a half century of propaganda, the "nation of immigrants" mythology has been embedded in the consciousness of many people in America. Everyone is supposed to have been descended from immigrants. Therefore the status of immigrants today is basically the same as people already in this "proposition nation". They're just as valid. If you're against immigrants, then you're against yourself, because you're descended from immigrants. That's the mythology and propaganda.
"Migrant" doesn't have this same association. It also connotes more of a rootless constant traveling, temporary stays and continued moving, as opposed to the settlement connoted by "immigrant".
"The police do not need probable cause to suspect a crime has been committed -- anyone who "looks foreign" can be stopped"
This quote is in reference to SB1070? It's an outright lie. Obviously not an Honest Abe.
All buzz words covered in reference to Americans: hate, xenophobia, restrictive, Nazi, white supremacist, bigotry, anti-foreigner, fear, hate crimes, extremists, pernicious, vigilantism, incendiary, incivility, mean-spirited, identification papers
All buzz words covered in reference to Israeli Jews: safety, tension, concerns, challenges
I skimmed both statements, and I didn't see a big difference between them. One thing I caught is that Foxman is concerned that the anti-immigrant forces in the US include or are pushed by NeoNazis, who are ultimately targetting Jews. He doesn't have this concern with the anti-immigrant forces in Israel.
Actually I think this is perfectly reasonable. I think its valid to say essentially that "I agree with policy X when it is pushed by Group A, which I like, but will oppose it when it is pushed by Group B, which I don't like." If Group B is your enemy on other issues, any benefits from Policy X are outweighed by Group B using it to gain more power. But of course most public figures aren't honest enough to just say this.
"Immigrant" v. "migrant"
Immigrants are here to stay, migrants are just movin' on...
It's also like how the papers have sacralized "homeless," so when a homeless guy is arrested for murder he's no longer "homeless" in the news, he instead instantly becomes "a drifter."
"Actually I think this is perfectly reasonable. I think its valid to say essentially that "I agree with policy X when it is pushed by Group A, which I like, but will oppose it when it is pushed by Group B, which I don't like." If Group B is your enemy on other issues, any benefits from Policy X are outweighed by Group B using it to gain more power."
Or as Lenin said: "Who? Whom?"
Shocking footage of the anti-Gentile riots here.
Whiskey:"The default assumption of most Westerners PARTICULARLY deeply assimilated Jews like Foxman is that Western societies EVEN ISRAEL has no right or ability to enforce their borders, that anyone can move anywhere and live anywhere as they please, according to their own custom."
How you managed to derive this from Foxman's actual statements is beyond me; at no point did Foxman assert that anyone other than Jews has a right to immigrate to Israel.
Don't worry, Whiskey, Israel is the one Western country that is safe from the open-borders virus;it's us Yanks who have to worry.We're the ones who are allowing millions of foreigners to stream into our country.
Because "immigrant" has a certain psychological effect. It triggers certain associations in people... Everyone is supposed to have been descended from immigrants... If you're against immigrants, then you're against yourself, because you're descended from immigrants. That's the mythology and propaganda.
So why isn't Foxman using "immigrant" in his statement on the Israeli pogroms? He is being critical of what is going on there. "Immigrant" would give his words more effect.
I was reading an article in Rolling Stone at the gym and they used the term illegal immigrants, but illegal was in parenthesis. Illegal is now not even a straight forward word?
Foxman is "deeply assimilated?"
Reposting link of shocking footage of the anti-Gentile pogroms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jGJVX6jYjI0
Or follow link here.
So why isn't Foxman using "immigrant" in his statement on the Israeli pogroms? He is being critical of what is going on there. "Immigrant" would give his words more effect.
He doesn't want to imply that Israel is a "proposition state" and a "nation of immigrants".
Strictly speaking, since Sudanese and Eritreans can never become Israeli citizens, calling them immigrants would be incorrect.
Whiskey: NOT EVEN FOXMAN will side with his own people
Foxman slams US for questioning Israel over Nablus operation
Anti-Defamation League National Director Abe Foxman on Tuesday slammed the US administration for what he called its "mischievous and troubling" decision to seek clarification from Israel over last Saturday's IDF operation in Nablus. In the wake of the operation, in which the IDF killed three Fatah men it said were behind the terrorist attack last Thursday in which Rabbi Meir Chai was gunned down, Washington passed on to Israel concerns from the Palestinian Authority about the IDF's actions and also sought clarifications of its own... Foxman told The Jerusalem Post, however, that while the US was a welcome and often necessary intermediary in peace efforts, "this is something new. This is America getting involved in combat situations." After the Palestinians turned to the US to complain about the operation, it was disturbing, said Foxman, to see the Americans ask Israel "for explanations and justifications." "Now what?" asked the ADL chief. "They'll be the judge of who is right and who is wrong? ...
Foxman siding with his own people
Plenty more examples where that came from.
deeply assimilated Jews like Foxman
LOL That's right up there with "Harvard Wasp Mafia" running Hollywood.
What do you mean "never"?
Blacks could "never" become US citizens at one point also.
Yes, well, that changed, didn't it?
I'm not defending Foxman's language, I think all illegal border-crossers should be called migrants at best (infiltrators would be the preferred term).
But it does make sense in a generalized ethnic sense - Catholic Mexicans can become US citizens, Muslim Sudanese cannot become Israeli citizens.
Strictly speaking, since Sudanese and Eritreans can never become Israeli citizens, calling them immigrants would be incorrect.
Since when is "whether someone can ever become a citizen" the test of whether they are accurately described as an immigrant? What a bizarre confection.
And strictly speaking, Sudanese and Eritreans could one day become Israeli citizens, whenever Israel decided to confer citizenship on them.
The Jew-dominated State Department weighs in!
But it does make sense in a generalized ethnic sense - Catholic Mexicans can become US citizens, Muslim Sudanese cannot become Israeli citizens.
You don't have to be a citizen, or ever become a citizen, to be an "immigrant". You can have legal residency but no citizenship.
And laws can change. The laws could change so that Mexicans can't become US citizens, and so that Sudanese can become Israeli citizens.
It is sick and disgusting that the rest of the U.S. media has turned a blind eye to these acts.
Is there a Hebrew translation of Camp of the Saints?
Gilbert P.
Ed said...I skimmed both statements, and I didn't see a big difference between them.
Devil, meet details.
Ol' Abe Foxman...I've often thought that at the bottom of every anti-racism organization is just some guy with a crippling need to "belong" somewhere.
"Yet Sailer favors Jews over Palestinians."
The palestinians are going to have to seriously step up their game before they are sympathetic to anyone. Their arab brothers would just as soon wash their hands of them.
The Desert Fox(man).
"Is there a Hebrew translation of Camp of the Saints?"
Israel suffered the same destiny of the West in the book...
"Abraham H. Foxman is National Director of the Anti-Defamation League. He and his parents immigrated to the United States in 1950."
I want our immigration laws to be sufficiently restrictive so as to bar anyone like Foxman or his parents from migrating here.
Foxman makes a show of opposing Israel's treatment of African infiltrators, but he would never actually intervene to help them. It is a sham opposition, done purely to strengthen his hand for his real mission - striking down any notion that Americans have a right to their own nation.
Abe Foxman is proof that immigration failed in the United States.
Think about it.
Out of an act of charity, Foxman's family was allowed to emigrate to the United States, a magnanimous act if there ever was one. And how is that act of charity repaid? Foxman demands that the descendants of those who let his family in lose control of their own borders.
That act of immigration charity was paid for by bigotry against Americans.
Foxman is nothing more than an agent of foreign Nativism. That is what immigration gets you.
But it does make sense in a generalized ethnic sense - Catholic Mexicans can become US citizens, Muslim Sudanese cannot become Israeli citizens.
Hey guys we can all be immigrants to Israel! We could all become Israeli citizens, by converting or by rights granted by the Israeli government!
Still only 184 stories re: "Tel Aviv Riots" in Google News. It's not on their front page. You
Of course we're all a bunch of anti-Semites for pointing out the hypocrisy here.
"Good for him for speaking out."
No - fuck him. He's a bigot. It's not really surprising, given that he's the leader of an ethnic lobbying group, but this is proof-positive.
Irael already has ID cards which distinguish Jews from non-Jews. Not explicitly, but by listing birthdates according to the Jewish Calendar - but only if you're Jewish.
"I skimmed both statements, and I didn't see a big difference between them."
Then perhaps you should read them instead of skimming them.
Sailer, now that Greece is returning to Monopoly money what do you think are the odds of any U.S. state exiting in the next 1/4 century? I think California is a real candidate--all my life libs here have been complimenting themselves on being "ahead of the rest of the country" and they'd find many bedfellows in the international capitalism community. (This is when they're not focused on breaking up the state into 3 entities.) The biggest downside would be for the pro-choice & pro-death penalty lobbies in D.C., they'd be hit hard.
Catholic Mexicans can become US citizens
Because we allow it.
Muslim Sudanese cannot become Israeli citizens.
Because Israel does not allow it.
You seem to be missing the point here, which is that Foxman very much wants the US to keep allowing Catholic Mexicans (and Muslim Sudanese for that matter) to become US citizens, while he very much does not want Israel to allow Muslim Sudanese - or Christian Sudanese, or Catholic Mexicans, or Buddhist Chinese, or any non-Jews - to become Israeli citizens.
One thing I caught is that Foxman is concerned that the anti-immigrant forces in the US include or are pushed by NeoNazis, who are ultimately targetting Jews.
And you actually swallowed that? We're used to a more discerning class of commenter around here.
I'd encourage the new pals of oppressed black Africans in Israel to watch the video from Int'l Business Times that he linked. This is definitely an angry mob but acts of property destruction were apparently hard to come by for their editing desk (they do up-end a refrigerator in a shop at one point and another exposed storefront is shown later). Not exactly in the same league as recent vibrant happenings in London or your Final Four team winning.
Is there a Hebrew translation of Camp of the Saints?
Don't think they need it. Have you actually read the Old Testament?
The funny thing is all the trolls here calling us anti-Semites for...something. No one here seems to be opposed to Israel maintaining its ethnic and cultural integrity, or opposed to the idea of Israel being an explicitly Jewish state. Yet somehow, by defending the right of Israel to remain a Jewish state, we are anti-Semites.
Yet if we stood ideologically with Jewish pols, pundits, and lobbyists in America - the most powerful single ethnic group in this country, by far - who oppose America maintaining its cultural and ethnic integrity by holding Israel to the same standards...we'd still be anti-Semites.
Clever. Very clever.
I, for the record, prefer to be the first kind of anti-Semite.
Yeah Foxman is deeply assimilated. He's got the same attitude Bill Gates has. How exactly is it in a Jewish man's interest to import tens of millions of anti-Jewish Catholics from Mexico? Or half the Muslim Third World? How exactly?
Abe Foxman makes a nice living (beats working) railing against White racists. Of which there are a few and historically quite a lot, but now David Duke lives in a trailer and Louis Farrakhan a mansion bigger than Oprah's in the President's neighborhood. Foxman is part of the same racket as Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and yes Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation.
His short term interest is to shore up relations with La Raza. But his long term interest in turning America into Mexico is zero. Mexico is not really a very good place for Jews -- none that can live elsewhere choose Mexico, its more of a last resort.
And yeah, I stand by that statement, look at the NYT reporting, including "activists for social change" who want to turn Israel into a giant African refugee camp. Because Africans are so down with the Jews.
“When I see a pogrom led by inciters like” the Knesset members Danny Danon, Miri Regev and Michael Ben-Ari, Mr. Lapid wrote, “I wonder how they have the nerve to call themselves Jews.”
Left Wing pro-African activists are not popular in parts of Israel:
The attacks after the rally were not the first time that Israelis upset with the presence of African migrants have vented their rage at fellow citizens concerned with the welfare of refugees who might face persecution in countries like Sudan or Eritrea.
Yossi Gurvitz, an activist blogger, reported in a post for +972 illustrated with video that vitriol and racist obscenities were directed at his girlfriend when she heckled Mr. Ben-Ari during a smaller protest on Tuesday.
Israel is a tiny country. There is only about 5 million Jews there. Surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims who want to kill them, and do so every chance they get.
And Israel still has some Israelis who want to turn the place into a giant African refugee center. Because to be otherwise would be "racist" and "who could call themselves Jews" if they did so?
Israelis don't live by the Old Testament, heck religious feeling and worship is pretty low in deeply secular Israel (where the Orthodox are deeply resented btw). Israelis like all Westerners are deeply secular, and not very religious. But that post-Christian cheap moralizing, is so seductive and easy like cheap potato chip calories that it eats away at any attempt to keep a people separate and self-determined. Even Israelis. Save all those hundreds of millions of Muslims wanting to kill them and the example of the Holocaust and there would be nothing barring a massive influx Camp of the Saints style.
What did action on the African illegals take? It took a mini-riot by Israelis to beat up African illegals and looting their shops and trashing their cars. That's pretty much Bacon's Rebellion. That's what it took.
In the old days, to assume moral superior status required real sacrifice. Self-mortification, fasting on pillars in the desert, pilgrimages both costly and dangerous, unbelievable amounts of praying. To be morally superior required real effort. Now, its cheap and easy -- just side with the Third World over your own people and nation. No matter what the cost to your children.
From the NYT links:
"This was my first angry mob since the elections of 1988, and then I was young, stupid and unafraid. It is frightening, very much so. Argument is pointless with minds seeping with racism. With one exception, no one came to our aid. We were in the Hatikva Market, a public place, and no one came to our aid. I would like to think they wanted to but couldn’t overcome their fear.
Later, I thought we were lucky none of us stumbled. This may have served as a signal for an assault, and I’m not sure we would have been able to get up on our own. Let’s put it this way: after Tuesday, I prefer Sudanese refugees to proud Jews. I feel safer with them.
And after the shock and fear, an attempt at understanding what took place. The legend that African refugees turned the paradise that was south Tel Aviv into a terrorized crime zone has to be rejected with a terse “you gotta be shitting me.” Statistics proved time and time again the crime wave exists mostly in the minds of the politicians stroking the hatred, of which Ben Ari is an ambitious competitor. I lived in Hatikva for two years; I’ve seen the people, the despair, the fear at nights, the absence of infrastructure, the flooding every winter when the sewage system collapsed – with my own eyes. Spare me the bullshit about a quiet neighborhood of happy poor workers.
First, there’s the economic hardship, which prevents people from getting an education and getting the hell out of there. Above it, we find Jewish supremacism, the concept of a Chosen People, “every Jew is the son of a King.” Proud Jews are often people whose Jewishness is the only thing they can be proud of. The blow I received came after I was asked if I am a Jew, and replied in the negative.
The speeches of Ben-Ari and others enraged the crowd. Ben-Ari spoke of Sudanese who allegedly urinated on synagogues, that is polluting the holy sites of Jews, and this was infuriating to people I suspect would have a hard time recalling how a synagogue looks from the inside. Another speaker screamed that the refugees are not here accidentally, that it was a plot by the Arab countries to inject a fifth column into Israel, which will help the Arabs during the next war.
Racism, particularly active racism, is common among people who believe life screwed them. It’s a very useful conspiracy theory: you’re not responsible for your failure, someone else is. You deserved, deserve, better, but dark forces – Masons, Communists, hidden Muslim armies, the Joooz, the New Israel Fund – take what is rightfully yours.
This mix is very potent. It is very easy – even Ben Ari, which was never said to be the sharpest cheese in the fridge, manages it – to convince racists that foreigners who move into their neighbourhood are coming to take their jobs, disinherit them from what was their home for decades, and have intercourse with their women. It is easy, and it happens.
==============
Well there you have it. A Jew in Israel who is dead meat and pretty much knows it if/when Africans become a majority in Israel (or even a substantial minority), Africa not being known for its enthusiasm for Jews. [Entebbe, Idi Amin, etc.]
But the guy's whole purpose is to moralize about how much well, BETTER he is than the lower-class guys and gals who feel ... threatened by alien interlopers who pretty much do want to kill them and turn their women into sex slaves. I mean look at the guy's own words, he explicitly rejects the Chosen People. He's SWPL. And that's the power of the Gap and Benetton and ironic sweaters worn to Trader Joes -- that sort of thing (snobbery) can be deadly. It breaks apart even among Jews IN ISRAEL WHERE UNITY IS VITAL any ethnic unity.
Here's how the Associated Press opens its report on the riots in Israel: "Recent rapes blamed on African migrants have ignited a political and emotional backlash against their ballooning numbers, with Israelis and their leaders stridently — and in an alarming new development, violently — calling for their expulsion."
So, not exactly a whitewash of the situation by any means, by the story opens with two justifications for Kristallnacht, Tel Aviv Edition: "Recent rapes" and "ballooning numbers." Not the sort of justification American pro-enforcement organizations are likely to get until perhaps the 27the paragraph.
Yeah Foxman is deeply assimilated. He's got the same attitude Bill Gates has.
It's not even funny anymore. Just stop. At least try to pretend we're not totally mentally retarded.
"Whiskey said...
Yeah Foxman is deeply assimilated. He's got the same attitude Bill Gates has. How exactly is it in a Jewish man's interest to import tens of millions of anti-Jewish Catholics from Mexico?"
By diluting the numbers, influence, and power of the nations' founding stock. By creating a new pluralistic population in which no one group is a clear majortiy - a population that has no social cohesion.
His short term interest is to shore up relations with La Raza. But his long term interest in turning America into Mexico is zero. Mexico is not really a very good place for Jews -- none that can live elsewhere choose Mexico, its more of a last resort."
He, and others like him, don't want it to be Mexico. They want it to be Brazil. I assume they'd be quite cool with that.
Hey, Whiskey, why don't you try sticking up for some actual Scots-Irish once in a while, if you are really such a red-neck. Your thorough and obsessive argumentation in this and related posts makes your ethnic affiliation abundantly clear. So you may as well cut it out with that scots-irish horses**t.
"Whiskey said...
Yeah Foxman is deeply assimilated."
Yeah, deeply assimilated. That's why Foxman is the director of the ADL, rather than say,......the Kiwanis Club.
This is too easy. Foxman is an ethnic spokesman. Expecting fair weighing of his ethnic group's actions vs other groups' actions is no more sensible for him than for Sharpton or Farakhan. By his role and past actions, you can know already that he is going to see the world primarily in terms of what's best for the Jews. Presumably, he thinks a US that is very welcoming of immigrants, and an Israel that is not, is good for the Jews. Nothing is wrong with that as a calculation or a concern, but there is also no reason anyone whose first concern is not the well being of the Jews should be too interested in his opinions on this matter.
What immigration policy would be best for US citizens now? That's the question I'm interested in. Net immigration from Latin America has apparently stopped, probably more due to the lousy economy than to effective enforcement (though the Obama administration has deported more illegal immigrants per year than any other administration, something neither party is especially keen to emphasize before the election). This actually provides a pretty clear guide to how to stop massive illegal immigration: when the jobs go away, most of the immigrants don't come here because they're mostly here for jobs. Make it not pay financially to hire illegal immigrants, and the problem of massive illegal immigration will go away. A few people will still slip across the border, but a few illegal immigrants aren't a big problem--the problem is when you have a huge inflow of immigrants depressing wages and putting a strain on various social services that we have because we're a first world country.
It's probably too mathy for the innumerate political and pundit class to think about, but scaling the fine with the square or cube of the number of illegal immigrants found working for you probably does the job, if you actually enforce the law a bit. (Suppose the fine is $1000 N^2, where N is the number of illegal immigrants working for you. With one, it's $1000--a reminder to do a better job with your employment paperwork. With ten, it's $100,000, enough to seriously threaten a smallish business, With a hundred illegal immigrants caught working at your factory, it's $10 million, and even a big company feels some serious pain.
I think you could do fhis with no wall, no border fence, and no particular step up of border security. Reassign most of those guys to looking for employers violating the law, make some very visible examples (ideally putting one or two medium-sized companies into bankruptcy), and the problem will be more-or-less over. When the local contractors all have the example of that one guy who got caught with 100 illegals working for him and he lost his business and his house, the market for illegal immigrants as cheap labor will mostly dry up.
Whiskey,
Your stuff doesn't fly here. Why don't you take this opportunity of the protests in Israel to troll at Commentary, NRO and other neocon sites, and try to convince them that the same revulsion they and the Israelis feel over third world immigration into Israel is the same WE FEEL HERE IN THE USA, and hence, they should stop fighting us tooth and nail over this issue and support measures like the ones taken in Arizona and Alabama.
Heck, you might even suggest that if they allow us to defend America like they do Israel, our side might even be somewhat more cooperative on your foreign policy fetishes.
As the late Joe Sobran said, dual loyalty would be an improvement.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/collections/201205/blockbuster-season/the-psychology-movies-and-viewers
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/billion-wicked-thoughts/201205/our-greatest-source-sexual-creativity-0
Israel is a tiny country. There is only about 5 million Jews there. Surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims who want to kill them, and do so every chance they get.
Just move to Israel already and shut up about it.
Whiskey, if you and your friends displayed a tenth of the concern for the country you live as you do for Israel, America's life-expectancy would be measured in centuries rather than decades as it currently is.
"Racism, particularly active racism, is common among people who believe life screwed them. It’s a very useful conspiracy theory: you’re not responsible for your failure, someone else is. You deserved, deserve, better, but dark forces –" whites "– take what is rightfully yours."
He who changes a word changes the world.
Rule number 1. with Whiskey - NEVER underestimate his fear and hatred of White women and his pathological need to make himself a victim of their lack of any desire for him and his imaginary White beta male brethren.
Rule number 2. with Whiskey - NEVER underestimate his need cover for any examples of Jewish ethnocentrism, bias, bigotry or deception.
It NEVER NEVER NEVER stops with him....HATE THE WHITE WOMEN, DEFEND THE JEWS.
That's what every whiskey post boils down to.
If Anglo-America was as racist as Abe Foxman and his "is it good for the jews" Israeli apologist brothers are..........well, we'd be living in a very different country.
And Abe Foxman and his parents would never have been let in in the first place.
This is too easy. Foxman is an ethnic spokesman. Expecting fair weighing of his ethnic group's actions vs other groups' actions is no more sensible for him than for Sharpton or Farakhan. By his role and past actions, you can know already that he is going to see the world primarily in terms of what's best for the Jews. Presumably, he thinks a US that is very welcoming of immigrants, and an Israel that is not, is good for the Jews. Nothing is wrong with that as a calculation or a concern, but there is also no reason anyone whose first concern is not the well being of the Jews should be too interested in his opinions on this matter.
This.
We let this guy and his parents come here, which we didn't have to do, and where is the gratitude? He supports immigration that seeks to eliminate the position of the very people who let him in. Sweet.
What difference does the "im" make?
It provides a direction. Just one direction: in -- into our country!!!
When you say "migrant", you're leaving open the possibility of further movement in any direction.
Actually I think this is perfectly reasonable.
Of course, it's reasonable, and it's reasonable for us to disassociate ourselves from people like Foxman. But people like Foxman will simply not allow it.
[T]he crime rate among foreigners in Israel stood at 2.24 percent in 2011...
The 2011 data on Israeli crime has not yet been published, but according to police data reported to the Knesset, the crime rate among the general population in Israel stood at 4.99 percent in 2010. This figure demonstrates that the general crime rate in Israel is more than double that of Africans in Israel.
http://972mag.com/police-distortion-of-crime-data-encourages-rising-violence-against-refugees/46236/
"I skimmed both statements, and I didn't see a big difference between them."
Then perhaps you should read them instead of skimming them.
I'm seeing an image of Beavis and Butthead: "Uh, words, words, uh, huh huh, it says use on wood."
Yeah Foxman is deeply assimilated. He's got the same attitude Bill Gates has.
Right. They both think "ethnostates for Jews good, ethnostates for gentiles bad." Oh, wait, that's like saying the KKK and Uncle Toms have the same attitude...
How exactly is it in a Jewish man's interest to import tens of millions of anti-Jewish Catholics from Mexico? Or half the Muslim Third World? How exactly?
Better than the Fourth Reich. I mean, I'm just giving you the opinion here:
“The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will soon be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this country.
We [Jews] have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to bigotry for about half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible—and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever (Raab 1993b, 23)”
Positive attitudes toward cultural diversity have also appeared in other statements on immigration by Jewish authors and leaders. Charles Silberman (1985, 350) notes, “American Jews are committed to cultural tolerance because of their belief—one firmly rooted in history—that Jews are safe only in a society acceptant of a wide range of attitudes and behaviors, as well as a diversity of religious and ethnic groups. It is this belief, for example, not approval of homosexuality, that leads an overwhelming majority of U.S. Jews to endorse ‘gay rights’ and to take a liberal stance on most other so-called ‘social’ issues.”
If you think it's nuts, take it up with them.
By diluting the numbers, influence, and power of the nations' founding stock. By creating a new pluralistic population in which no one group is a clear majortiy - a population that has no social cohesion.
And it doesn't hurt that for the most part, at least in Texas, Hispanic leaders like Xochitl Hinojosa -- if not anusim or openly Jewish -- are at least descended from conversos.
Immigration is absolutely killing American blacks economically. Either they don't realize it or they place a higher value on disempowering whites.
How exactly is it in a Jewish man's interest to import tens of millions of anti-Jewish Catholics from Mexico? Or half the Muslim Third World? How exactly?
No one ever said that Jews are rational.
ed
"One thing I caught is that Foxman is concerned that the anti-immigrant forces in the US include or are pushed by NeoNazis, who are ultimately targetting Jews. He doesn't have this concern with the anti-immigrant forces in Israel."
So racism, xenophobia, bigotry etc are good or bad depending on whether they are good or bad for the Jews?
"It is sick and disgusting that the rest of the U.S. media has turned a blind eye to these acts."
And proof.
In China, "a rush of hostility towards foreigners is appearing."
“The Ministry of Public Security must clean out foreign trash, arrest foreign thugs and protect innocent girls,” he wrote to his 820,000 followers. “Behead the snakeheads, the unemployed Americans and Europeans who come to China to make money, traffic in people and mislead the public by encouraging them to emigrate.”
[...]
the police in Beijing announced a 100-day campaign to rid the country of foreigners who are living or working in China illegally. The initiative, promoted through banners and articles in the state news media, encourages citizens to report those suspected of violating the law to the authorities.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/world/asia/wave-of-chinese-nationalism-as-communist-leadership-change-looms.html?_r=1&hp
Many web headlines about the riot early Saturday, for the most part of a more-in-sadness-than-anger quality. I don't know the crime rate impact of the Africans in Tel Aviv but if DUIs and robberies and rapes are even slightly up then the gov't must have expected a populist backlash, and you don't have to be James Q. Wilson to realize that people already flouting the immigration rules are more of a risk to continue breaking other laws. In the U.S. we have a stream of famous drunk drivers from Central America killing carloads of families and the federal law enforcement/prison establishment evinces some confusion about the appropriate response. Obviously Israel should quickly expel the Africans established to be criminals, but will now need some modish political cover story to deport the rest; legalizing gay marriage ought to do the trick.
"Immigration is absolutely killing American blacks economically. Either they don't realize it or they place a higher value on disempowering whites."
Probably the latter. Its a case of cutting off one's nose to spite your face. While satisfying in the short term, it is a disaster in the long run.
Its actually not that hard to manipulate a people into acting in a manner inconsistent with their best long-term interests. Here in Canada a good example would be French-Canadians who have historically supported the federal Liberal party, the party of open-door mass third world immigration. This has shattered the former cohesiveness and homogeneity of what was once known as English-Canada. But it has hardly helped Quebec. In the late 1960's, when Pierre Trudeau, the French-Canadian architect of all this was about to come to power, Quebec had 74 of 266 seats in the house of commons. It will now have 78 out of 338. It has gone from 28% of the house to just 23% and this slide is going to continue remorselessly. Quebec was the political powerhouse of Canadian politics in the 20th century (what California is to U.S. presidential races, times five). No more. Quebec and Francophones are going to have nothing like the political influence from now on that they historically had.
I skimmed over the comments here, and it appears that all responders are treating Foxman and the Jewish elite as though they were sane, and acting in their own best interest that happens to diverge from the best interest of their country.
However, these people are literally, insane. Progressivism, in its obstinate refusal to reckon with Reality, is no different from clinical schizophrenia. Examples abound, irrespective of race and ethnicity, except for the Jews' outsize representation in this segment, in the US and in Europe.
For the European variant of this genus, check out Berbara Lerner Specter's "Paideia" project. I wrote about it here: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/102298/sec_id/102298Takuan Seiyo
[T]he crime rate among foreigners in Israel stood at 2.24 percent in 2011...
The 2011 data on Israeli crime has not yet been published, but according to police data reported to the Knesset, the crime rate among the general population in Israel stood at 4.99 percent in 2010. This figure demonstrates that the general crime rate in Israel is more than double that of Africans in Israel.
http://972mag.com/police-distortion-of-crime-data-encourages-rising-violence-against-refugees/46236/
Not too surprising, given what we know about immigrant crime rates.
Except perhaps to dishonest dummkopfs who try to justify one rule for Israel and another for the rest of the West by portraying the first generation African refugees as qualitatively different from Mexicans in their crime vs work rate, and by smearing dissenters as "White nationalists who hate Jews".
Compare to the US, where incarceration rates among foreign born Hispanics are half the native born "non-Hispanic White" rate:
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/local/article_1592092.php
While the native born Hispanics have an incarceration rate roughly 4 times the "non-Hispanic White" rate.
It's the "native born" second and third generation immigrants who have the high crime rates, probably a big factor in which is their younger age.
Hence why smart guys like Steve don't talk about first generation "foreigner crime" in the USA very much, but instead point out the dysfunctional 2nd gens.
Interestingly, check out how the Asian crime rate is actually more-or-less equal to the White rate when considering equal foreign born/native born status.
Seems like low Asian crime rates are due to the massive numbers of them who are foreign born, in comparison particularly to Blacks and Whites, and that their criminality may equal to Whites over time, as they become less "foreign born". Wonder what the pro-Asian immigration cheerleaders make of that?
I skimmed over the comments here, and it appears that all responders are treating Foxman and the Jewish elite as though they were sane, and acting in their own best interest that happens to diverge from the best interest of their country.
However, these people are literally, insane. Progressivism, in its obstinate refusal to reckon with Reality, is no different from clinical schizophrenia. Examples abound, irrespective of race and ethnicity, except for the Jews' outsize representation in this segment, in the US and in Europe.
For the European variant of this genus, check out Berbara Lerner Specter's "Paideia" project. I wrote about it here.
As usual, you ignore the fact that the two comment threads on the subject here in recent days are brimming with counterarguments.
T]he crime rate among foreigners in Israel stood at 2.24 percent in 2011...
The 2011 data on Israeli crime has not yet been published, but according to police data reported to the Knesset, the crime rate among the general population in Israel stood at 4.99 percent in 2010. This figure demonstrates that the general crime rate in Israel is more than double that of Africans in Israel.
So, does the link walk that apples to oranges comparison back, or what?
@Svigor
As usual (in my meager experience of Svigor, the Internet Commentator), you revert to your Jewgenic Theory of What’s Wrong With The World. Your comment here packs three logical fallacies in one short sentence. First, I doubt you are qualified to assert what’s usual for me. Second, I don’t ignore the “brimming threads” but am unaware of them. I don’t hang out daily on this or any website. Third, that there were such threads does not necessarily invalidate my point. As usual for the Alfred Rosenberg School of Phenomenology, those threads could have been, and probably were, packed with a lot of bovine manure.
Takuan Seiyo
As usual (in my meager experience of Svigor, the Internet Commentator), you revert to your Jewgenic Theory of What’s Wrong With The World. Your comment here packs three logical fallacies in one short sentence. First, I doubt you are qualified to assert what’s usual for me.
As is usual for philo-Semites, you ignore the actual arguments in favor of your own straw men.
I'm eminently qualified to state what's usual for what I read from you. So, which logical fallacy is that? Is there a name for it, or is it a Takuan special?
Second, I don’t ignore the “brimming threads” but am unaware of them.
Right. You comment on a conversation and ignore everything everyone else is saying. Unware, ignorant, the difference is semantic at best. Both threads are currently on the front page. This is one of them. So, which fallacy was this?
I don’t hang out daily on this or any website. Third, that there were such threads does not necessarily invalidate my point.
It does support mine, though - you don't deign to even follow the conversation you're larding.
I notice you still haven't brought yourself up to speed.
>How exactly is it in a Jewish man's interest to import tens of millions of anti-Jewish Catholics from Mexico? Or half the Muslim Third World? How exactly?>
These people are no competition. They are easily fooled and ruled - low IQ. Whites, on the other hand, are dangerous as hell: a certain segment of them is smart enough to compete, to cause trouble, to threaten our continued bringing of light to, and healing of, the world. Scratch a white, find a Nazi. Can't take the risk, so must replace the white population everywhere.
My mistake, there are actually three threads, and this is one of them.
Abe Foxman speaks
Latest Israel immigration news
"Undocumented workers" in U.S. = "Illegal infiltrators" in Israel
I was also mistaken that one needs to read the comments to invalidate Takuan's progressives=nutcases=Jews argument. Just the headlines, plus this bit of Steve's commentary is enough:
Generally speaking, much can be learned from Israel about how an intelligent people govern themselves.
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