Back on March 5, I predicted warming relations between Russia and Israel, with Soviet-born Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman as the natural middle-man. Sure enough ...
American-Israeli relations: US still Israel's best friend but no longer country's only friend
By Zev Chafets Published April 16, 2014 FoxNews.com
Zev, from Detroit, was Menachem Begin's press secretary.
Late last month the United States introduced a U.N. resolution condemning Russia’s de facto seizure of Crimea from Ukraine. As expected, the resolution passed the General Assembly easily. Unexpected, though, was the decision by Israel, long America’s most reliable U.N. vote (and vice versa), to absent itself from the ballot.
This shook up the Obama administration. National Security Adviser Susan Rice met with Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and demanded an explanation. Lieberman blandly blamed it on a strike at the foreign ministry. What was he supposed to do, ask Israeli diplomats to cross a picket line?
At home he was more candid. “We have good, trusting relations with the Americans and the Russians,” he told a TV interviewer. “I don’t see why she needs to get caught up in this.” General Amos Gilad, a senior figure in the Ministry of Defense, seconded this new, even-handed approach. “Our security interests should not be defined as identical to that of anyone else, even the United States,” he said.
Ha’aretz, a left-wing Israeli newspaper, reported that White House officials “nearly went crazy” with shock and anger when they heard such ungrateful sentiments.
If so, Rice and her colleagues haven’t been paying close attention. Israel is no longer an impoverished, embattled, emotionally needy client state. It is an emerging international power with options it never had before. Locked doors are now wide open. Old enemies want to be given another chance. America is still Israel’s best friend, but it is no longer its only friend.
This year Israel’s sunny new place in the world has been increasingly evident. In February, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper came to Jerusalem and delivered an almost embarrassingly pro-Israel speech.
A month later, German Chancellor Angela Merkel brought virtually her entire government to Israel in what was an astonishing show of solidarity by Europe’s most powerful government.
Merkel and other world leaders still have talking-point problems with Israeli policies in the West Bank, but in the real world, these are not leading to the kind of international isolation that the Obama administration has been darkly forecasting.
As far back as I can remember, it has been fashionable for people on all sides of the issue to predict doom for Israel. Yet, Israel has steadily grown stronger.
Posts
114 comments:
Jews are the best networked people in the world, Arnon Milchan stoled nuclear secrets from the USA and still is a billionaire Hollywood producer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnon_Milchan
He also produced a movie based on the Medusa Touch novel, there is a scene in the novel and film with a airliner hitting a building:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Medusa_Touch
This actually points to the probability of a WW3.
Because maybe what is really happening is the Israelis are befriending/funding both sides in order that whichever side wins They Win.
People just don't become friendly for no reason. They want something. Russia should be careful.
With the Jews, nothing is as simple as sucking up and getting good PR. You always end up having to DO something that harms yourself.
Good on Israel. Obama's been screwing Israel and now it's payback time for Israel to screw Obama.
In February, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper came to Jerusalem and delivered an almost embarrassingly pro-Israel speech.
Terry Milewski @ CBCTerry: PMSH en route to Israel with huge delegation of 6 ministers, MPs, staff plus 27 CEOs & 21 rabbis.
Harper: "A state, based on freedom, democracy and the rule of law, that was founded so Jews can flourish as Jews, and seek shelter from the shadow of the worst racist experiment in history."
Chafets wrote: General Amos Gilad, a senior figure in the Ministry of Defense, seconded this new, even-handed approach. “Our security interests should not be defined as identical to that of anyone else, even the United States,” he said.
Hunsdon said: Damn, I'm saving this. It ought to come in handy, one of these days.
Hello Steve,
As an Israeli, I'd like to offer a couple of extra points:
1. Many Israelis do not feel much affinity for the Ukranians. This has to do with the behavior of their ancestors in WWII. Yes, some Jews have long memories, something you've intimated in your writing before. Now, many of us don't like the Russians either, but they actually freed the camps, not served in them.
In essence, while we feel that Ukraine has been wronged, we don't consider them allies or friends.
If we check their UN voting record on matters pertaining to Israel, I doubt we will see much support for us Zionists.
2. Israelis generally feel that the UN, especially the General Essambly, is a vacuous body in which symbolic decisions are made, mostly against us. If the US is enraged about this symbolic vote, it goes to show how little they plan to do about the Ukrainian crisis.
We don't see this as diplomacy. We view it as theater.
3. Russia has the ability to hurt us in many ways: the sales of weapons to Assad, the renewed military connections with Egypt, the Iranian issue. As this vote is symbolic and the potential damage to us is anything but, many of us don't feel that making empty gestures is in our interest.
4. There are thousands of Jews in Crimea, hundreds of thousands in Russia, and many more in Eastern Ukraine. We care about their fate. I know, it's silly, but we really do. We feel a kinship to them. Their safety is of paramount importance to us. We read reports about anti-semitic groups targeting synagogues in Ukraine and we don't like it. Who will vouch for their safety, Pres. Obama with a speech or Pres. Putin with a tank?
5. The antagonism between Netanyahu and Obama is real, and many Israelis do not trust the President. Why should we? We read reports about the secret plan to lay the blame for the failed Mid-East negotiations initiated by Sec. Kerry on us. We're pressured to release murderers for empty promises, while the US is enraged when similar options are weighed by the Afghan Pres. Someone in the administration is in the habit of leaking potentially damaging things regarding Israel to the press; these include issues pertaining to the Syrian civil war, and preparations that Israel has made in the Iranian issue. We are dismayed by the support given by the administration to the Muslim Brotherhood, and the way they attempt to minimize the connection between Islam and terrorism (in the Benghazi attack, for instance).
Now, all this doesn't reduce our admiration and gratitude to the American people. I say this with the utmost seriousness--we are grateful and honored to be your friends. Heck, we love you more than many of your own citizens do.
However, we do not trust this administration, and if we can stop or delay the sale of advanced weaponry to Syria in return for an abstantion on a symbolic vote of no consequence whatsoever, why shouldn't we? Would Putin have had a change of heart if we had voted against him?
6. All this being said, none of us is under any illusions regarding Putin. He will do what he likes with no compunction. So, no, we don't have an alliance with Russia or anything like that. What we do have is what we've always had: a tiny country surrounded by millions who want us dead. We wish to keep as many of us alive for as long as we can.
The Ukrainian situation has reinforced the views of many of us: agreements are written on paper and are as easily torn. Unless you have real might to back them up, you will get shafted.
We feel that the administration is forcing our hand to reach worthless agreements which will make us vulnerable and weak.
Extra note: regarding the Foreign Office strike that you've mentioned. The strike was real and it may have been the reason for our delegation not voting. I don't know if that's the case or not, or how they would have voted had there not been a strike.
And yet the Jews at the NY Times hate Russia.
They're still doomed over the long term--they're surrounded by people who hate them. Eventually Iran will get the bomb.
Of course, we could cut their foreign aid over this. Not gonna happen...
They're also cherry-picking examples--Harper is bizarrely Zionist and Merkel's guilty about the Holocaust. What about the rest of the world? The entire Arab world hates their guts.
At home he was more candid. “We have good, trusting relations with the Americans and the Russians,” he told a TV interviewer. “I don’t see why she needs to get caught up in this.” General Amos Gilad, a senior figure in the Ministry of Defense, seconded this new, even-handed approach. “Our security interests should not be defined as identical to that of anyone else, even the United States,” he said.
Compare the above to this:
Mitt Romney frequently criticizes President Barack Obama’s stance on Israel, saying the president doesn’t hold the Jewish state in a tight enough embrace.
"The president said he was going to create daylight between ourselves and Israel," Romney said in a foreign policy-focused debate, the final one of the presidential election.
Demography is destiny....I wonder if there's a tipping point beyond which Indigenous or African content in a nation's gene pool leaves it unable to compete for global influence.
"As far back as I can remember, it has been fashionable for people on all sides of the issue to predict doom for Israel. Yet, Israel has steadily grown stronger."
One problem they have, which I can't recall anyone other than Mearsheimer discussing, is "reverse aliyah". A rather Sailer-esque topic, though I suppose it could take a while to build up to anything significant.
"As far back as I can remember, it has been fashionable for people on all sides of the issue to predict doom for Israel. Yet, Israel has steadily grown stronger.
'Yet'? It is because doom was predicted for Israel that it survived. Yet when Iran is crushed and fragmented into statelets, which will happen shortly, and Syria and Hezbollah neutralised, and the Palestinians capitulate; then Israel will be in deep trouble because most young Israelis will act on their desire (according to (Louis Rene Beres) to be in LA.
And then Israel will have to lobby the US to stop Jews from immigrating there. Germany won't, and that why Germany is really Israel's biggest enemy. Germany has already (in 2005) refused to stop Jews coming to Germany rather than Israel.
Israel has done well out of a permanent state of war, that's what we need, and not against a brocken spectre terror network, but against a powerful opponent like Russia. Make sense?
Yes, right now Israel seems to be in good shapes, with an intact culture that's a strikingly functional mix of secular-religious-scientific.
But what about the demographics? The country will become Orthodox, if present trends continue.
Somehow, I think the Israelis will deal with this, but I don't know how.
Do you?
"As far back as I can remember, it has been fashionable for people on all sides of the issue to predict doom for Israel. Yet, Israel has steadily grown stronger. "
I remember a nice little Dutch documentary on the Mearsheimer debacle and the Jewish lobby.*
It had quite the impression on me and especially the testimony of Tony Judt who explained in apocryphal tones that "what happens once the holocaust becomes a memory?" Then "Israel will be without a friend in the world"
This assumes emotions are directly tied into when something happened when in fact Americans can testify to the opposite happening with blacks after the 60's. The term grievance industry comes to mind.
However is it really impossible that Judt's point will eventually come to fruition even if it is only partly?
The big question is how will the intellectual class(and especially the right) in America square this Israeli turn away? Any other country doing this and you could expect a backlash. They can't simply ignore it surely and if Israel starts talking publicly about their disagreement then there will have to be some response on the right.
Hopeful thinking but maybe Israel can serve as a binding and peaceful force between America and Russia. It will be very interesting to follow.
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=357s5I4nrYw
Vaguely related, given the focus on homosexuals and Russia. It seems that Bryan Singer (director of X-MEN, X-MEN 2, SUPERMAN RETURNS, THE USUAL SUSPECTS) is facing a lawsuit:
"According to the lawsuit filed in federal court in Hawaii, plaintiff Michael Egan, who was named in a press release by his lawyers, was 17 when he was forcibly sodomized by Singer, among other accusations.
“Defendant, BRYAN JAY SINGER, manipulated his power, wealth, and position in the entertainment industry to sexually abuse and exploit the underage Plaintiff through the use of drugs, alcohol, threats, and inducements which resulted in Plaintiff suffering catastrophic psychological and emotional injuries. Defendant Singer did so as part of a group of adult males similarly positioned in the entertainment industry that maintained and exploited boys in a sordid sex ring. A Hollywood mogul must not use his position to sexually exploit underage actors.”
Variety reports,
Marc Collins-Rector, the former chairman of Digital Entertainment Network, an ambitious Internet startup that sputtered in the dotcom bust of 2000, is also cited in the Singer lawsuit, although he is not named as a defendant. He is accused of initiating the sexual abuse of Egan and arranging for Singer to assault Egan at a house in Encino, Calif.
Collins-Rector is a registered sex offender, having plead guilty in 2004 to luring minors across state lines for sexual acts."
If so, Rice and her colleagues haven’t been paying close attention. Israel is no longer an impoverished, embattled, emotionally needy client state.
And yet they still want $3 billion per year in direct aid, plus loan guarantees and who knows what else.
Who is the client and who is the patron?
http://publicdomainreview.org/
http://www.berfrois.com/
It sounds like the neocons are straying off the reservation.
It is quite a come-down when Putin has a better back-door channel to the Israeli PM and foreign ministry than the neocons.
So where is Abe Foxman in all this hoo-hah about a War with Russia? As the chief resident lobbyist for Israel in America, he keeps his finger on the pulse of the Israeli government.
Perhaps Vicky et al. have gotten too close to the Western Banksta (IMF/World Bank) interests and just a bit too far from Israeli national interests.
With one foot in the Summers/Bernanke/Yellen canoe and one in the Israeli/Jewish canoe she now finds them drifting apart.
They had better start burning up the telephone lines to resolve their differences and come up with a common plan: Obama doesn't work well unless he is given clear and unmistakeable instructions.
One thing is certain. There aren't going to be any public pronouncements about "Israel's betrayal of Democracy". This will all be handled back channel.
That Putin! What a strategist! He is the first one to drive a (very public) wedge between the neocons and Israel.
There are only two problems with your theory, Steve:
(1) Iran; and
(2) Saudi Arabia.
Interesting that it is considered alright for Israel to put its own self-interest first even when it doesn't help the United States. If the United States put its own self-interest ahead of Israel, it would be condemned as anti-Semitic.
What about all the junk we've been hearing for years from Israeli-firsters about how Israel's and America's interests are always and irrevocably 100% aligned?
Apparently it doesn't hurt if a nation's ruling class actually likes the nation and people that it rules.
It is obvious that the American ruling class deeply despises the American nation and people, isn't it?
OT, but another addition to your Cold War Yale-CIA-Liberal meme: the recently deceased Peter Matthieson, who used the founding of the Paris Review as his cover
surreal
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4507433,00.html
“Our security interests should not be defined as identical to that of anyone else, even the United States,”
Yet in the US it is anti-Semitic to say the two countries may have different security interests.
In February, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper came to Jerusalem and delivered an almost embarrassingly pro-Israel speech.
Now he's kissing up to Canada's large (and multiculti-loving) Ukrainian community by talking tougher than anyone else about Russia's alleged aggression.
Nice. Maybe Russia can veto the predictable anti Israeli UN resolutions.
The interesting thing about this is whether Russia will scuttle the nuke deal with Iran. Israel has done all it could to 86 it.
All we need to do now is to opt out of mission to bomb Iran. Let Russia do it.
Israel has long needed a major oil exporting ally. Now they have one.
I am 100% in favor. Especially the part where Israel asked for more space in the relationship.
o/t, pure Sailerbait - and a peaceful and happy Easter to you and yours.
"The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organised groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."
"The US is an oligarchy, study concludes"
http://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdf
"This shook up the Obama administration. National Security Adviser Susan Rice met with Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and demanded an explanation.... Ha’aretz, a left-wing Israeli newspaper, reported that White House officials “nearly went crazy” with shock and anger when they heard such ungrateful sentiments."
SHOCK! ANGER! Gee, after all, Jews and Israel NEVER acted like that before.
"Israel is no longer an impoverished, embattled, emotionally needy client state."
It hasn't been such since the 60s. After all, it beat all the major Arab nations in 6 days. And it's been the leading economic force in the region for so long I forgot since when.
"It is an emerging international power with options it never had before."
Emerging?
"Locked doors are now wide open. Old enemies want to be given another chance. America is still Israel’s best friend, but it is no longer its only friend."
It's not about Israel. It's about Jewish power in America. America is slavish to Israel because America is slavish to Jewish elites. And the world is slavish to Israel because the world is dominated by America(and EU)that, in turn, is dominated by Jews. With the Cold War over, third world nations don't have any other option. They must deal with America that is ruled by Jews. And to deal with America, they must deal with Israel.
If anything, American Jews are happy that Israel is spreading its tentacles all over the globe(as Israeli tentacles are merely the extensions of global Jewish tentacles).
The article gives the wrong impression that America feels jilted because Israel no longer solely dependent on it--and indeed some gentile Americans might feel that way--, but American Jews(despite their public rhetoric of bogus anger and faux exasperation) want Israel to diversify its power relations. And why not?
After all, Jews in America have done the same; they've diversified their portfolio of power, especially against white gentiles(despite the fact that white gentiles did so much for the Jews).
Jews make deals with Democrats, GOP, China, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and etc. that have been to their own benefit and foreign nations but terribly detrimental to middle Americans.
I mean, is NY Times foremost an American-interest paper(that looks out for all our interests) or Jewish-interest paper? How come NY Times Jews are so cozy with the Mexican elites and push amnesty when the majority of Americans don't want it?
How typical of the Jewish-dominated media to fill up the news with so much obfuscation.
Anyway, if the US regime is SO SHOCKED AND ANGRY, what is it gonna do about Israel's recent behavior? Logically, shouldn't US cut ties with Israel or force sanctions against it? Why will that never happen? Because Israel has control over the US or because American Jews have control over the US, thereby forcing the US to bend over backwards for Israel EVEN WHEN Israel makes alliances with rivals of the US?
American Jews are the enablers of Israel but talk as if Israel is so powerful all on its own and pushing its weight around.
It's like the fat gangster raising a spoiled rotten kid in MILLER'S CROSSING but blaming the kid for his bad manners while taking no responsibility himself when he is the enabler of the rotten kid.
Anyway, the fact is the Obama regime won't do anything about Israel. But not because Israel is an 'emerging' power but because American Jews made Obama and put him in place as a hired hand.
I think, based on a footnote in one of Kissinger's early academic papers, that the technical term for this is: PUMP N' DUMP.
I don't know what is more head-spinning. Israel cozying up to the country most responsible for nearly destroying it in the 50's, 60's, and 70's through generous arms allotments to its worst enemies. Putin cozying up to the country where many of the dissidents who brought down the USSR chose to settle. Or a post-nationalist White House "going crazy with shock and anger" when a purported client site betrays the United States. Have they forgotten that "the United States" is simply a social construct and that the only real thing in this world is "black bodies" that can be beaten, maimed, or imprisoned? Well, maybe Putin has now taught them the importance of black ops bodies too.
Confirmed in her world-view all along will be Samantha Power, as this incident- far from illustrating that there are no good or bad nations, only national interests- corroborates her many past asertions that Israel was evil-Evil-EVIL all along.
I haven't noticed that the Obama administration has been friends to Israel, rather the opposite. More Smart Diplomacy at work, it seems.
People underestimate Jewish opportunism. These are a people who can make deals without making it personal.
They both like money..only explanation I can think of off the top of my head
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303663604579501441901549788?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303663604579501441901549788.html
So is this recent internet kerfuffle about some masked skinhead types telling Jews that they had to register with the local (pro-Russian) government just a false-flag operation to try to turn Jews against Russia?
Somewhat OT: the possibly fake (or certainly highly exaggerated) story of the Donetsk pro-Russian rebel government ordering Jews to register with them has gone viral this morning. Widespread panic about Russian anti-Semitism, ignoring the fact that out of the five richest people in Russia, three are Jewish, and Putin has been very friendly otherwise. Ridiculous. Of course, John Kerry is fanning these rumors.
Steve, the backstory on this is that the US ABSTAINED from a UN vote condemning Israel for its settlement policy. So, turnabout. Obama has been the most anti-Israel President in memory, so naturally Israel is going its own way.
Obama has failed to do anything about Iranian nukes and indeed has an ill concealed secret deal to OK the nuke weapons program. The Saudis have acted just as abandoned, and are making their own deals with the Russians their historic oil enemies.
Meanwhile Israel sits on an ocean of natural gas. Russia and Israel will be at odds over Israel's desire to be a rival to Russia in supplying Europe (hence Merkel's Cabinet visit -- Germany is DESPERATE to find cheaper alternatives to the Russian stranglehold on Natural Gas and their green fantasies are costing them plenty as they shut their nuke plants down). But for now with Israel's gas still not on the market, the hostility level will go down.
None of this would happen if Obama still acted as Israel's protector. However, he's made clear his sympathies are with the Palestinians and radical Muslim Brotherhood, enemies to both Israel and the House of Saud. Obama wants his "deal" with Iran to go through so he can make Valerie Jarrett happy, and "stick it to" White America his number one priority in all things.
Obama has been an unmitigated disaster in foreign policy, abandoning traditional allies and proven peace keeping in favor of everyone on a hair trigger nuclear stand-off. If that, assuming the Israelis just don't nuke first with Saudi implicit blessing and aid.
But that is inevitable, a non-White majority America will have the foreign policy of Kwame Fitzpatrick or Louis Farrakhan and there's not much difference between those guys and what Obama has actually done.
I'd prefer a more stable world, but that's not what non-White majority America wants. [America is defacto non-White majority as non-White births outnumber White ones and the flood tide of illegal immigration simply changes the demographics every day.]
Russia has deals to develop oil and gas fields in Israel, the Palestinian territories, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey.
How did they get these deals? Simply by not being the USA.
Whiskey, heehee, you crack me up sometimes ....
"reverse aliyah"
I first started noticing the arrival of Israelis in the San Fernando Valley when one tried to headbutt a local at a 3-3 basketball game while the local was trying to make the local custom of which team gets to play next.
I'm not sure, though, how much it weakens Israe; to have a lot of people in Israel with cousins in Hollywood and vice-versa.
"I'm not sure, though, how much it weakens Israe; to have a lot of people in Israel with cousins in Hollywood and vice-versa."
Maybe more with cousins in Silicon Valley now.
But the demand for luxury condos in Tel Aviv suggests that the flow isn't one-way.
How long Israel and Russia maintain cordial relations is an open question given that local pro-Russian groups in Eastern Ukraine are demanding Jews register and list their properties.
Both Ukraine and the Russians have their anti-Jewish neo-Nazis, it seems that the Russians have let theirs slip their leashes.
Which is bad for Russia. Russia has a lot of people, less than before proportionally (the Stalin "stand and fight to annihilation" disaster early in the War led to 20 million dead Russians and a demographic implosion). But not that many smart people. If Russia is to be more than a gas station masquerading as a nation, as McCain derisively put it (and there is some truth to that), they need a lot of smart people working on aerospace, weapons, cybernetics, bio stuff including nano tech and dna modification. That means, Jews.
Enough Jews leave Russia, and Russia is left with ... what exactly? Putin is a tough guy but he's useless and guys like him are useless at designing new fighter jets. Or highly efficient transport planes to rival Boeing or Airbus. Or high tech machine tools. Or the latest anti-virus treatment. Or DNA treatment for cancers, all of which Russia could sell to make a lot of money when not if the oil runs out.
For that you need nerdy guys who like to peer into microscopes, not tough guys who like to ride horses bare chested and feed their opponents polonium laced tea. Russia does not have that many smart guys that they can play footsie with the local thugs.
Which is Putin's weakness, a taste for thuggery when something lighter and more sophisticated is called for.
"However, he's made clear his sympathies are with the Palestinians and radical Muslim Brotherhood, enemies to both Israel and the House of Saud. Obama wants his "deal" with Iran to go through so he can make Valerie Jarrett happy, and "stick it to" White America his number one priority in all things."
What a surprise! America elects a Marxist Muslim president, and then he goes around supporting revolutionary Muslims.
"But what about the demographics? The country will become Orthodox, if present trends continue."
Plenty of productive types are national-religious--i.e. they keep the Sabbath, they eat kosher, but they also serve in the army and pay far more in taxes than they take out of the economy. This is really one of the least serious problems Israel faces.
"What about all the junk we've been hearing for years from Israeli-firsters about how Israel's and America's interests are always and irrevocably 100% aligned?"
They are--supporting Obama's interventionist idiocy in the Ukraine is not supporting America's interests. Obama does not represent America's interests.
Steve: You could not be more off here. I don't know anything about people historically predicting that Israel is finished but this is the first time in it's short history that Israel is in terminal decline.
Israel has managed to stay afloat by massive Alyiah and that process has not only ended, it is has reversed. Not only that, the people who are leaving are the educated and secular.
Meanwhile, the arab and ultra orthodox population continues to grow and today half of all 1st graders in Israel are either ultra orthodox or arab, this is, people who will grow up to hate the country or at best be indifferent to it.
I suggest you try talking to some secular Israeli sabras because in Israel today there is wall to wall consensus that the country is doomed and will collapse soon.
Somehow, I think the Israelis will deal with this, but I don't know how.
Do you?
No I do not and neither do any secular Israelis. It is just an accepted fact that eventually the religious will take over and drive the secular out.
"this is the first time in it's short history that Israel is in terminal decline"
Seems to be doing helluva lot better than all those Muslim nations that are imploding like crazy, not least because of US-Jewish foreign policy in the Middle East.
Jewish liberals may turn on Israel sometime in the future BUT ONLY when they know for sure that Israel is secure enough to withstand the change in policy. Jewish liberals thought such time was at hand in the late 90s, so they backed Clinton's middle east peace plan. But things really got out of hand as there was still a lot of fight left in the Palestinians.
So, Jewish liberals are remaining mum as Israel builds huge walls and secures its borders and puts Palestinians firmly in their place in the West Bank. Once that's been accomplished and Jewish power has been solidly rooted all over the area, then Jewish liberals might think of applying some pressure on Israel to push through a peace plan.
That way, Israel will be so powerful and Palestinians will be in such weak position(unlike in the 90s) that the peace plan won't threaten security in the region.
Totally beat the opponent with a big stick before offering him the olive branch.
Suppose there's an animal trainer who's abusing a bear. It's a terrible sight, so we wanna tell him to stop and let the animal go. But in the current state, the animal might maul the trainer if freed. So, we figure it's better to wait for the trainer to weaken the beast by more beating, by removing all the teeth and claws, and by breaking its limbs.
Once that's been done, we can pressure the trainer to release the animal and also take moral credit for ending the trainer's tyranny. But the animal has been so badly damaged that, once freed, it will be as weak as when it had been in chains.
That is the fate of Palestine. Jewish liberals are waiting for Netanhayu and his ilk to totally crush Palestinians in body and spirit. Only then will they make a big stink about how the occupation must end. By then, Jewish liberals will know that Zionist supremacy in the region will be a fait accompli.
Of course, Jewish liberals will morally take all the credit for having acted so conscientiously.
Jewish liberals see white America the same way. It's like the Reagan era ad about the bear. Jews feel that the white beast might still rise up and maul the Jew, and therefore, the white bear must be defanged, declawed, broken in body and spirit first before it's allowed to roam free.
The great irony is that American conservatives bitch about the rise of the Russian bear under Putin when Jews see white America in the same way. As a dangerous bear that needs to be hunted, beaten, declawed, defanged, and broken in spirit and finally freed.. inside a zoo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G_rfBP_NDs
Re: Jonathan said, regarding Israel
And very well said, too, Jonathan.
"this is the first time in it's short history that Israel is in terminal decline"
Nope. They do have a problem with their Galut-mentality Orthodox community, but that can change.
Jews have a 2000-year-old way of dealing with the world by sucking up to the (goy) Prince. And it has been very effective. Who else still speaks the same language from 3000 years ago? Nobody.
The ruling Israeli Ashkenazi Jews face some problems in persuading the Orthodox to change their diaspora mentality, sure. But power can be renegotiated. The real problem is the decline in Ashkenazi population in the Israel. I don't know how they can persuade the JAPs of Israel to have more kids than the Orthodox, but they can (and I expect will) find a way. Either by cutting down subsidies to Orthodox breeders or championing Ashenazi elite childbirth. Probably a combination of the two. I expect them to survive in style.
Big Bill:"Who else still speaks the same language from 3000 years ago? Nobody."
1. Archaic Biblical Hebrew is not identical to Modern Hebrew.
2. Greek and Chinese can both be traced back 3,000 years.
"Seems to be doing helluva lot better than all those Muslim nations that are imploding like crazy, not least because of US-Jewish foreign policy in the Middle East. "
Yes, without the US all those Muslim nations would be flourishing, winning Nobel peace prizes, cranking out GDP at Western European levels, etc.
Is this even an HBD blog anymore? Muslim countries are poor and backwards because their citizenry is made up of of a population with an IQ of less than 85. It's also the reason they're violent, impulsive, unstable and tribal. They were this way long before Israel and America, and they'll be this way long after.
Stop being obtuse.
What about all the junk we've been hearing for years from Israeli-firsters about how Israel's and America's interests are always and irrevocably 100% aligned?
This is only true when it is good for the Jews.
"But the demand for luxury condos in Tel Aviv suggests that the flow isn't one-way."
Sorta. Israeli real estate is incredibly expensive everywhere. I've thought about getting a place in Israel down the line, but once I saw the prices, my interest ceased. In Maale Adumim, which is outside the Green Line near Jerusalem, its $500k for a 1300 sq foot apartment. Guess I'll stick with Florida or Vegas.
It is obvious that the American ruling class deeply despises the American nation and people, isn't it?
Look at who makes up the American ruling class and I think you will see why. Israel benefits from the fact that it is less diverse than the United States.
What a surprise! America elects a Marxist Muslim president, and then he goes around supporting revolutionary Muslims.
If by "America" you mean Jews, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, gays, socialists and single mothers then yes, "America" did elect him.
Antisemitism as the most mortal sin today is quite attractive to false flag operators:
http://news.yahoo.com/someones-handing-leaflets-eastern-ukraine-telling-jews-register-173828220.html
"Yes, without the US all those Muslim nations would be flourishing, winning Nobel peace prizes, cranking out GDP at Western European levels, etc."
If not for sanctions, Iran would be doing okay.
Iraq made considerable strides in economic development under Hussein. Hussein was a bad guy, a scumbag, but he did some good things for Iraq, but US totally wrecked all the infrastructure in the Gulf War that Buchanan correctly saw as war for Israel. (When Hussein invaded Iran, US praised him and gave him weapons to keep the slaughter going. When he invaded Kuwait, US called him Hitler and ruined his country). Libya was doing pretty okay under Gaddafi but then look at it now.
Syria was doing okay before the Civil War fueled by outside forces: US and Israel working with Saudis and Turks.
By the way, if US were to force sanctions on Israel(as it does to Iran) and ended all aid, how do you think Israel will be doing?
Look at the guy at Mozilla. Smart guy and hard worker. But out of work because homos(backed up by Jews) took him down. Sanctions against conservatives who won't bend over to the homo lobby. What US does to Iran, Jews and homos in America do to conservatives.
Why can't an organization like American Renaissance gain any traction? Because any rich guy who donates even a penny to it will be tarred and feathered and destroyed. Look what happened to Chick Fil A.
But rich Jews can shower Jewish organizations with millions in aid even if those organizations are supremacist, tribal, racially extreme.
Rand Paul is attacked for having hired Jack Hunter, but Obama can be president despite his ties with Ayers and Wright.
So, don't tell me US policy has nothing to do with the problems of Muslim nations. Yes, many Muslims are idiots and fools, just like many white conservatives are. But who can deny that US has rigged policy in the MIddle East to reward Israel but bring down any perceived rival or enemy of Israel economically or militarily? And talk about double standards. Israel can have nukes, Iran cannot even produce enough radioactive material.
Same thing in America. Can the likes of Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow get any gig in MSM?
And what if some rich guy donated to American Renaissance or Vdare. What would happen to him? He would be 'sanctioned' worse than Iran, and IRS would pore through everything he did to bring him down.
And notice that the neocons don't offer any protection to white conservatives from Liberal Jews. Instead, neocons keep telling white conservatives to be more 'moderate' and bend over to every Liberal Jewish agenda... like open borders, amnesty, homo marriage, and the rest of the garbage.
They're screwing America by refusing to help get America drawn into World War 3?
"1. Archaic Biblical Hebrew is not identical to Modern Hebrew"
How on Earth can some states offer an AP test and college credits to HS students studying Hebrew?
Is this even an HBD blog anymore? Muslim countries are poor and backwards because their citizenry is made up of of a population with an IQ of less than 85.It's also the reason they're violent, impulsive, unstable and tribal. They were this way long before Israel and America, and they'll be this way long after.
I live in a Latin American country with an avg IQ of about 85. It has yet to experience anything even remotely resembling the two (or is it three?) Lebanese wars or the current Syrian War. It's also curious that the Christian population of Syria was able to survive over a millennium under Muslim rule and is just now experiencing its own Holocaust/Shoah. Post-Saddam Iraq of course somewhat similar experience for the Christians.
Rightist means 'my country, right or wrong'.
That was a fairly interesting post. But German rightists, Japanese rightist and Italian rightists did join forces before.
Rightist means 'my country, right or wrong'.
You made an interesting point. But keep in mind German, Italian and Japanese rightists got together before. When the international left is on the march, rightists can come together in common defense. I would imagine Greek rightists today would align with Hungarian rightists and maybe even the Right Sector types of Ukraine.
Israel is NOT America's "friend". With a "friend" like Israel, America doesn't need enemies.
> The entire Arab world hates their guts.
Like the US military, the IDF has many ethnic Arabs voluntarilyserving therein. (they are exempted from conscription; OK yes it's true, the "GI Benefits on our end are much more tangible than in the US)
Unlike the US Army, ours have not attacked their fellow soldiers in a military hospital waiting room.
>> most young Israelis will act on their desire (according to (Louis Rene Beres) to be in LA
talk to the Ocean-freight-forwarders in Port of Long Beach - most yordim ==do== return to Israel in old age.
A lot like Greek immigrants.
Unlike the Greeks, really a lot of American-born Israeli second-generation kids become workably proficient in Hebrew - and a really large number of them, who have no such legal obligation to - fly to Israel at age 18 and do a full tour of duty in the IDF. In fact, the IDF's Lishkat Giyus ("draft board") maintains a representative in LA via the Israel Scouts.
The precedent set in Crimea might be repeated in the Occupied Territories one of these days so it is probably in Israel's interest to not be too outraged at what occurred there.
>> Who else still speaks the same language from 3000 years ago? Nobody.
A coupla years ago, the Ministry of Education published the Torah as a "translation" into Modern Israeli Hebrew.
before that, there had been two generations of denial that Biblical Hebrew is to Modern Hebrew, as "Beowulf" is to "Portnoy's Complaint".
The rabbis really screamed against it. But there was no realistic choice.
>>> Syria was doing okay before the Civil War fueled by outside forces: US and Israel working with Saudis and Turks.
There's very few families in the world whose anti-Israeli rhetoric has been ALMOST as strong as it's ACTUAL ACTIONS of NEVER CONFRONTING THE IDF.... as the Assad's of Syria.
>> How on Earth can some states offer an AP test and college credits to HS students studying Hebrew?
Same way that they offer it for Latin?
"Anonymous Jonathan said...
3. Russia has the ability to hurt us in many ways: the sales of weapons to Assad, the renewed military connections with Egypt, the Iranian issue. As this vote is symbolic and the potential damage to us is anything but, many of us don't feel that making empty gestures is in our interest."
As an Israeli, perhaps you can offer a useful perspective on the following question, which I have often wondered about: It has often been stated in the US that this or that tyrant in the middle-east is or was a threat to Israel - Assad, pere et fils, Hussein, Khaddafy, etc. Did Israelis really consider them as such, after 1980 or so? It seems to me that Israel is far better off with Assad in Syria or Hussein in Iraq, than with whoever is likely to be their replacements. They kept a lid on the jihadist impulses of their own people. Hussein may have been a competent enough tyrant over his own people, but as a conqueror of others he was pretty lame. Isn't that what one wants in the ruler of a neighboring, fundmentally hostile state? I am curious as to what Israelis think about this.
Look what happened to Chick Fil A. Well, what did happen to Chick Fil A? Right after the gay brouhaha, there were sympathetic (to CFA) lines of cars out in the street all day at the local one. They sold out of everything. My kids love the stuff, and even now when I cave in to going through the drive thru, there is always a long line of cars ahead of me.
Can the likes of Jared Taylor or Peter Brimelow get any gig in MSM? On this, I agree. For that matter, what about Steve?
"Whiskey said...
How long Israel and Russia maintain cordial relations is an open question given that local pro-Russian groups in Eastern Ukraine are demanding Jews register and list their properties."
Did it ever occur to you that those fliers might be the result of some kind of CIA or western NGO backed dirty-tricks operation? The CIA has done that sort of thing before.
"Iraq made considerable strides in economic development under Hussein"
Muslims are perfectly capable of running well-functioning developed nations. Exhibit A: Saddam Hussein!
"I live in a Latin American country with an avg IQ of about 85."
Low IQ populaces are perfectly capable of running well-functioning developed nations. Exhibit B: Guatemala!
"Look at the guy at Mozilla. Smart guy and hard worker. But out of work because homos(backed up by Jews) took him down."
Jews control the whole world. Exhibit C: The case of (overwhelmingly gentile) American homosexuals forcing a Jewish CEO to resign.
"Did it ever occur to you that those fliers might be the result of some kind of CIA or western NGO backed dirty-tricks operation? "
The evil CIA and neocons are persecuting poor, saintly Vladimir Putin. Exhibit D: This example of Putin persecuting some impoverished Ukrainian Jewish peasants.
This comment section has seriously become the /b/ of the alt-right blogosphere.
To summarize Martin van Creveld of Hebrew University, Israelis (Sabras) are menschen, disaspora Jews are "men without chests."
Of course, what he did not mention was that Sabra women are tough and charming but diaspora women are shrill and men-hating.
"Did it ever occur to you that those fliers might be the result of some kind of CIA or western NGO backed dirty-tricks operation? The CIA has done that sort of thing before."
You give the US too much credit. I would guess Igor Kolomoisky (the Jewish billionaire put in charge by the new government of neighboring Dnipropetrovsk province) or his cronies are behind the fliers.
In reply to Mr. Anon:
You've asked whether Arab "secular" dictators were truly considered a threat by us Israelis, especially after 1980.
I assume that you mean an existential threat, as any of them could and did sponsor terrorist groups against us, and so did constitute a threat of some degree.
I can not answer for us all, so I will give my opinion.
The only one I thought could be a serious threat was Saddam. The reason is that, prior to the 1991 war, he had ample WMDs, a powerful army, and was utterly crazy. The guy wasn't simply ruthless, as Assad is, but capable of making dumb decisions, such as his war with Iran and his invasion of Kuwait.
Saddam had saw himself as some Muslim warlord, a modern Saladin, and he did have us sit in our shelters with our air masks in 1991. So, yes, until the 1990s we did view him as a serious threat.
However, I did not see him that way in 2003 and thought that the US invasion of that country was weird.
Gaddafi was crazy as well, but seemed weaker than Saddam.
We were always told that Syria's army was no match for the IDF, at least not on its own, so we were worried less about Assad, though his support (and his father's, to a smaller degree) for hezbollah was vexing.
As for who is better for us, this I don't know. In fact, whenever I hear or read an Israeli pundit or official opine as to who better win the Syria war, I wish to thrash that "expert", as I consider this an unknowable issue, and such talk an irresponsible drivel.
A central government, no matter how hostile, can tamp down some Jihadist tendencies in the general population (although the Gulf states have no aversion to fan the flames of Jihad in Western countries), but they can also procure advanced weaponry, hand over such weaponry to terrorist groups, launch diplomatic campaigns against us, and so on.
I doubt that anyone, including the Russians or Chinese, will sell such weaponry to Jihadist groups. Qatar and the Saudis simply don't manufacture such weapons.
What perplexes us Israelis is why many view us as the cause of all strife in the world, considering that the Arabs are far better at killing each other than we are, that the "decimated" Al-Qaeda now controls vast swaths of land, that Christians are being annihilated in Africa and in various Muslim countries, and a country in Europe is being partitioned with no meaningful protest.
This, I imagine, is one of those unsolvable questions for which there is no answer.
Russia has huge nuclear arsenal and big military. So it makes sense for Israel to make friendly with them.
Israel's nuclear weapons are for use against the US as a wedge. Because the US will pay any price to stop them being used against ME countries or Russia. The US does not want any ally to use nukes and possibly get the US into a nuclear exchange. If Israel didn't get enough help from the US they would say 'we only have the Samson option left'. Nuclear weapons have no military purpose, wars cannot be fought with them.
"What perplexes us Israelis is why many view us as the cause of all strife in the world, considering that the Arabs are far better at killing each other than we are, that the "decimated" Al-Qaeda now controls vast swaths of land, that Christians are being annihilated in Africa and in various Muslim countries, and a country in Europe is being partitioned with no meaningful protest."
Jonathan, do you really want to know? It's because after World War II the Arab moderates were in control. Muslims were generally friendly to the United States. Our support of Israel in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict just turn them against us. It has motivated Asama been and his like to fight against the United States. Due to Jewish influence in the United States, moderates were shown to have no success so radicals took over Muslim society.
Robert Hume
"The entire Arab world hates their guts."
All Muslims dislike them. Also Leftists hate Israel for some reason, but they like Muslims.
Some allies!! oy vey!! We need them like we need a hole in the head!
@ Jonathan,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, it was existential threats I was referring too. I guess the answer is - as it is with so many things - it's complicated.
"DR said...
Exhibit C: The case of (overwhelmingly gentile) American homosexuals forcing a Jewish CEO to resign."
Yes, it's not like Jews have had a prominant role in the normalization of homosexuality or anything (cough, Alan Ginsberg, Tony Kushner, cough). And thirty years of concerted propaganda by Hollywood to shove the gay agenda down America's throat has had no impact either. Then, of course, there was this:
Joe Biden at the DNC
Note Jonathan Chait's comment: it's great for Biden to be so effusive in his praise, but there is always the danger that somebody might notice something. And, as we all know, noticing things is bad.
""Did it ever occur to you that those fliers might be the result of some kind of CIA or western NGO backed dirty-tricks operation?""
"The evil CIA and neocons are persecuting poor, saintly Vladimir Putin. Exhibit D: This example of Putin persecuting some impoverished Ukrainian Jewish peasants."
You have no idea who authored those fliers. And it is perfectly possible that they were a calculated piece of disinformation intended to smear the russian cause.
"This comment section has seriously become the /b/ of the alt-right blogosphere."
Says DR - the reflexive critic of any and every expression of ethnic solidarity made by the "wrong" ethnic group, and the defender and exponent of financial parasitism.
Sorry, OT. From the "Humans of New York" site, an elderly Jewish man says, "You should kiss the ground you walk on if you were born in this country-- take it from an old man who once had to wear the Star of David on his shirt. There's a safety to living in such a diverse place. It's much more difficult to brainwash a population that is composed of so many different nationalities and so many different viewpoints."
And that, clearly stated, is why Israel must have a single culture but America must have a divided one.
Low IQ populaces are perfectly capable of running well-functioning developed nations. Exhibit B: Guatemala!
Guatemala is certainly dysfunctional. Would an IDF invasion improve matters? Did US meddling in Guatemala from the 1950-1980s make anything better? It would likely have been best to gently push Guatemala into the Soviet Bloc and arrange for it to be run mostly by the East Germans.
Congress doesn't seem to investigate anything anymore. But if it did, it should investigate the origins of the whole Syrian fiasco and involvement by USG, KSA and Israel.
DR said . . .
"Did it ever occur to you that those fliers might be the result of some kind of CIA or western NGO backed dirty-tricks operation? "
The evil CIA and neocons are persecuting poor, saintly Vladimir Putin. Exhibit D: This example of Putin persecuting some impoverished Ukrainian Jewish peasants.
If there was even a scintilla of doubt in anyone's mind that the Kiev junta is a US puppet show, this surely dispels it. Whose MO is hate crime hoaxes followed by public attacks of the vapors?
There is something especially cute about this particular hate crime hoax, though. You know, in view of the fact that, although there are neo-Nazis in the Ukraine, they are our puppets in Kiev.
Did it ever occur to you that those fliers might be the result of some kind of CIA or western NGO backed dirty-tricks operation? The CIA has done that sort of thing before.
The patriotard conservatives who've been feverishly reporting this story couldn't care less who did it. All they care about is demonising foreigners (unless those foreigners are committing the act of love known as illegal immigration). It's been nearly 24 hours since Haaretz reported that the story is likely a hoax yet the usual suspects (Instapundit, National Review) are yet to issue a retraction or even a caveat to their readers. That's because conservatives are every bit as dishonest as liberals.
the entire time you've also been predicting, wrongly, that obama is a cool, calm, collected customer, who deftly, wisely sidesteps any foolish military confrontations or posturing.
but now, with his utterly moronic, idiotic comments about russia today, april 17, combined with the hersh report on syria, i'd say that i've been right and you've been wrong the entire time about this person.
the guy is an minor league, amateur hour jackass, who is provoking russia continuously and moving the US slowly towards a conflict. so much for your 6 year long defense of this imbecile.
about the only thing that is accurate is that obama is not really paying attention to foreign policy in general, doesn't care, and that it probably IS true when he says he has no idea what the united states government is doing - when it comes to various activities in foreign countries. the only time he pays attention to that stuff is when there is a crisis, then he takes over like the ignorant buffoon he is.
"We really dodged a bullet by not electing John McCain!" - one of the dumbest ideas floating around the HBD sphere. maybe obama will move some more jets, missile cruisers, and destroyers right up to the russian border. that will certain move us away from war. that will certainly de-escalate things. might as well send some more CIA agents to disrupt the area as well.
oh, and obama is sending weapons to iraq and syria right now. gotta keep those conflicts hot.
"Sorry, OT. From the "Humans of New York" site, an elderly Jewish man says, "You should kiss the ground you walk on if you were born in this country-- take it from an old man who once had to wear the Star of David on his shirt. There's a safety to living in such a diverse place. It's much more difficult to brainwash a population that is composed of so many different nationalities and so many different viewpoints."
And that, clearly stated, is why Israel must have a single culture but America must have a divided one."
This actually points up a thing many Sailerites don't get--American Jews like America a lot. They just don't like the same parts of it you do.
"Low IQ populaces are perfectly capable of running well-functioning developed nations."
Costa Rica isn't so bad.
If Guatemala could have avoided the long civil war due to leftist policies that brought regime change ordered by the US, it might have done much better.
It was a victim of the Cold War, like Vietnam. US was willing to back any right-wing regime to prevent a communist takeover, and Marxist guerrillas, fired up by the Cuban and Vietnamese example, kept fighting on and on. So, many people got caught between this never-ending war between the right and left, and the nation turned into a mess.
If Guatemala could have avoided such a fate--as Costa Rica did--, it might have been a half-decent nation. While Costa Rica is no paradise and has plenty of poor people, it's been relatively sane and safe in the region that was wrecked by so much fighting between Marxist radicals and right-wing oligarchs.
So, blaming IQ for everything wrong with the world is disingenuous. While we don't expect Guatemala to be Switzerland anytime soon or ever, what really wrecked that nation was the nasty dealings of US-backed rightwing regimes and Cuban-inspired Marxist rebels who, in continuing to fight a war they couldn't win, only prolonged the massacre that went both ways.
"We were always told that Syria's army was no match for the IDF, at least not on its own, so we were worried less about Assad, though his support (and his father's, to a smaller degree) for hezbollah was vexing."
No shit, Israel crushed Palestinian uprisings in West Bank and Gaza in no time. It smashed Lebanon in a day.
But Syrian army cannot even defeat a ragtag rebellion, and the war rages on to this day.
The notion that Israel is faced with dangerous enemies all around is such a joke.
"And that, clearly stated, is why Israel must have a single culture but America must have a divided one."
America's always had a divided culture. Read AMERICAN NATIONS by Colin Woodard.
American Jews like America a lot. They just don't like the same parts of it you do.
Yeah, they don't like the Founding stock.
That is crap. I am the son of immigrants and I was always taught to look up to and respect our Founders and their descendants. I have no problem with what was the dominant culture in this nation even though I am neither Northern European nor Protestant.
Now I have to sit and watch as my nation is slowly becoming part of Latin America. My parents made the choice years ago to select Anglo America over Latin America. Now I guess it doesn't matter. To make a precious few feel safe and secure, we all have to wreck our society. Sort of like how to help a small percentage who don't have health insurance, we had to blow up the existing system.
Rebellions are hard to defeat without levels of brutality that even Assad isn't ready for.
Conventional warfare and insurgency is really apples and oranges. Arabs are typically bad at conventional war but good at insurgency. And the most effective form of counter insurgency is extreme brutality. The intifada in Israel went on for years. The Shiite rebellion against Saddam after the gulf war was crushed in weeks. Saddam didn't use rubber bullets.
Assad isn't a Saddam. His father was more like Saddam though.
Haaretz reported that the story is likely a hoax yet the usual suspects (Instapundit, National Review) are yet to issue a retraction or even a caveat to their readers. That's because conservatives are every bit as dishonest as liberals.
Why would anyone trust Haaretz? It's Israel's left-wing anti-American paper.
Why would anyone trust Haaretz? It's Israel's left-wing anti-American paper.
My problem is not whether Haaretz is left wing, but why all the concern about this group, and only this group? As has been pointed out in other comments on this blog, you can't get Washington or any Western leaders to lift a finger when Christians are actually being murdered in Iraq, Egypt and Syria. But suggest that Jews are being harassed in Ukraine, and everyone takes note.
Similarly when blacks attacked whites for years in the 'knock-out' game, the MSM dismissed it as a figment of the rightwing's imagination. But once Jews were targeted in NYC, it became a real issue.
I don't wish any harm to the Jews. But it would be nice to get some sympathy in our direction.
"But probably at the lower end of the range."
Would be interesting to test, certainly.
Putin has made several off hand jokes recently about Russia taking back Alaska. Nobody took it seriously, because they sold it and we bought it. Real politick aside, this is settled. On the other hand, a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel gave the Chinese what was then, a state of the art map created in 1735 by a French cartographer showing what was believed to be the Sino-Russian borders. It was extremely touchy because when there are parts today's Russia that are clearly on the wrong side of the boundary. Of course, this was a very devious trick by the Germans because Kaliningrad, which was formerly part of East Prussia, is not part of Russia proper. Too boot, the Russians owe the Krauts a lot of money. This was a not so subtle jab at the Russians to not be so attached to some of the lands they now control because this game can go both ways.
Another couple of points from the Israeli:
1. I reject the notion that Osama Bin Laden hated America because of Israel. He hated you mostly for your presence in the Gulf and your support of the rulers of those states. However, even when you supported his fighters against the Russians, he still hated you, so go figure. Crazy people can act, well, crazy.
2. The Arabs hate the British, French, and Europe in general as they view them as oppressors. America is viewed as European by the Arabs, and so it is hated. If you add the religious element into it, you get a powder keg of hate.
Furthermore, they didn't like you even when your support of us was minimal. In 1948, the US enacted a weapons embargo on the fledgling Israel, and it wasn't until the Six Day War that the alliance was created. Did the Arabs love you before that? I doubt it.
3. Was Nasser of Egypt a moderate? I don't think so. The Egyptian army under him used chemical weapons in Yemen, and Nasser himself worked toward creating an all encompassing Arab state.
4. As for the issue of threats. We are not like other nations. We release a thousand terrorist for one captured soldier. Many of us consider this a mental disorder on our part, but we still do it. There is a US soldier who's been held by the Taliban for years. What's his name, again? That's right, hardly anyone knows. You can google it, but in Israel you wouldn't have to. They would mention how many days he is held on the news. Every day. So, we view threats somewhat differently than other nations. We also have conscription, so our soldiers aren't viewed as volunteers.
5. As for the Ultra-Orthodox, there is room for worry, but also room for optimism. Those guys can learn. Now they wish to learn the Torah, but many of them, given the chance, would love to learn something else, too (and some of them already do). It's nice to be able to feed your large family on your own without the government giving you charity. It's a manly trait that also exists in the Ultra-Orthodox.
While their leaders, those old, old, withered leaders, would wish them to remain an isolated group, the time for that kind of existence is drawing to a close. Israel is too small for isolation. We and the Ultra-Orthodox are stuck with one another. They will have to open up, and many of them do. In Israel, a lot of secular people have family members that became Ultra-Orthodox and vice versa. In addition, what are they going to do, go with the Arabs? They will never have it as good as with us secular Jews, and they know it.
They will even go to the army. The youngsters adore soldiers. It's quite charming to see.
In addition, the Ultra-Orthodox are centrally controlled. All it takes is one Rabbi to flip to our way of thinking, and they will all follow. Look at what one guy did with Chabad.
Final note: someone commented on how Western leaders get agitated over those fliers in Ukraine but seem complacent about the slaughter of Christians in Muslim countries. As a Jew, I have to echo that sentiment. I am appalled and digusted as to how those Christians are abandoned to die without any help. If they'd been Jews, there would already be soldiers pulling them out of harm's way.
"Yeah, they don't like the Founding stock.
That is crap. I am the son of immigrants and I was always taught to look up to and respect our Founders and their descendants. I have no problem with what was the dominant culture in this nation even though I am neither Northern European nor Protestant.
Now I have to sit and watch as my nation is slowly becoming part of Latin America. My parents made the choice years ago to select Anglo America over Latin America. Now I guess it doesn't matter. To make a precious few feel safe and secure, we all have to wreck our society. Sort of like how to help a small percentage who don't have health insurance, we had to blow up the existing system."
I was thinking more of the South and Midwest, but given the obsessions with WASP country clubs a generation ago you might be right. Now they seem to have married in and don't seem to care as much about that anymore--it's all sorts of dumb liberal causes like transgender rights.
Actually, I think the left was right on healthcare. But not this ACA half-measure--we need a single-payer government system like the rest of the civilized world. Still, good luck getting that past the insurance companies. (The Derb actually agrees with me--as he said, some things are true even if the Party says they are true.)
I wonder if any of this has anything to do with Ukraine?
I never see any references in the MSM to the anti-Semitism of Ukraine. Ukraine must be the most virulently anti-Semitic non Muslim nation on Earth.
This insight overtook me when I had a mostly Ukrainian staff and a Jewish Russian boss. Then I googled Holocaust Denial.
Albertosaurus
"As has been pointed out in other comments on this blog, you can't get Washington or any Western leaders to lift a finger when Christians are actually being murdered in Iraq, Egypt and Syria."
Israel's the biggest defender of Christians in the Middle East bar none. When Christians were being slaughtered by Muslim hordes in Lebanon the IDF was the only country that lifted a finger to help. There's a reason why Christian Arabs in the region are strongly pro-Israel.
"There's a reason why Christian Arabs in the region are strongly pro-Israel."
You really are an amusing fellow. I haven't had this much fun reading a troll since Nick Diaz.
Did Israel steal bomb-grade uranium from the United States?
http://thebulletin.org/did-israel-steal-bomb-grade-uranium-united-states7056
All this being said, none of us is under any illusions regarding Putin. He will do what he likes with no compunction. So, no, we don't have an alliance with Russia or anything like that. What we do have is what we've always had: a tiny country surrounded by millions who want us dead. We wish to keep as many of us alive for as long as we can.
Why don't you guys import as many Chinese with IQ scores over 120 as you can fit into the country? That'll make for (many) more Israelis to contribute to your efforts, it'll improve your economy, they can run your gov't far better than Jews can, etc. If you're worried about space, don't be; Chinese like to live even more densely than Jews do, so every Chinese you import will actually make Israeli real estate more effectively utilized.
I've asked this of Israelis several times, but I never get an answer. I mean, we all know you don't want to import Arabs or Muslims, and for obvious reasons. But what's your excuse for not importing loads of high-IQ Chinese, Indians, Latinos, etc? They're not going to blow up any pizza joints.
I ask because you guys in Israel seem so comfortable with diaspora Jewry's all-in effort to get every other country to import huge numbers of alien peoples, regardless of their IQ scores.
they need a lot of smart people working on aerospace, weapons, cybernetics, bio stuff including nano tech and dna modification. That means, Jews.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that more Jews means, in order: 1) More Jews in the media, 2) more Jews in finance, 3) more Jewish lawyers, 4) more Jews in sociology, etc. 5) more Jews in everything else (so long as it isn't good for European demographic prospects).
Plenty (probably most) of the Orthodox with 8 kids are Ashkenazi and have Ashkenazi level IQs.
Mean Ashkenazi-Israeli IQ is 104, about 6 points below the diaspora Ashkenazi mean.
That was a fairly interesting post. But German rightists, Japanese rightist and Italian rightists did join forces before.
It ignored the fact that rightists benefit from working together. Rightism at bottom is about what's best for one's people, and it's fairly obvious that making common cause is what's best for most rightist movements. Only when one's people is in as secure a position as Jewry's can they go overboard and screw everyone else over.
This actually points up a thing many Sailerites don't get--American Jews like America a lot. They just don't like the same parts of it you do.
Many of us get it - insofar as American culture and policy reflects Jewish interests, Jews can be quite "patriotic."
America's always had a divided culture. Read AMERICAN NATIONS by Colin Woodard.
"Divided" here means "1/10th as divided as Jews want it."
I don't wish any harm to the Jews. But it would be nice to get some sympathy in our direction.
Ever stop to think that maybe the former is a barrier to the latter? Forget sympathy. The only thing Jews really understand is the carrot, and the stick. They'll come to the table when it's better for their bottom line than stonewalling, and not before. Period. All Jews have large accounts in the "we don't owe anyone shit, we're the victims, forever" department. They actively cultivate this mentality. They're immune to appeals to better natures.
1. I reject the notion that Osama Bin Laden hated America because of Israel.
Then why would he say it was because of Israel? What reason would he have to lie? The taint of ANTI-SEMITISM!!! is the ideological kiss of death to the western masses, so, why would he lie when it costs him?
In addition, the Ultra-Orthodox are centrally controlled. All it takes is one Rabbi to flip to our way of thinking, and they will all follow. Look at what one guy did with Chabad.
Really? I was under the impression that Judaism is quite de-centralized and charismatic local personalities are running the show. If they're amenable to centralization, why no central hierarchy, why no Jewish Pope?
Mr. Sailer, A study of the differences between Karaite Jews and Talmudist Jews could be most illuminating, did you know a Karaite who is an Israeli Hero is simply referred to as an "Egyptian Jew". The split is ancient and very fascinating, why did the Karaites, practically identical to the Talmudists, never experience pograms? Theologically, it is like Protestants and Catholics.
"Jonathan said...
The idea that Zionists are pushing for multiculturalism is absurd. We care about what happens in Israel. Your own demographic makeup is none of our concern."
Your statement is absurd. Many of those most ardently pushing for multiculturalism in MY country are ardent zionists. You can pretend that it is not so, but it IS so. If Israelis are concerned about western nations dismantling themselves, howabout you fellahs try to persude your co-ethnics in our countries who act in your name (whether you are aware of it or like it or not) to cool it a little? Okay?
@Jonathan:
In general, though, we believe that it is none of our business what you do in your countries.
In that case it would be beneficial if you never protested diplomatically the outcome of an election in which an anti-immugration party gained votes. Or if your ambassadors and the rabbis you send to our countries or the rabbis who were trained in your country would never try to lecture us about the supposed lessons of the holocaust etc.
We fear for what will happen in some of those countries.
In which case you might help European anti-immigration movements. For example by forging ties to at least the philo-Semitic components of those.
They can come from anywhere, be white or black or brown
Funny how black Jews were encouraged to birth control, though.
The idea that Zionists are pushing for multiculturalism is absurd.
This absurd idea is apparently related to the pattern easily noticed throughout the West that whoever feverishly supports Israel also feverishly supports multi-kulti and mass immigration.
Jonathan,
1. But surely you'd have no objection if every European country decided to adopt a policy of pressuring Israel to take in immigrants from non-terror-exporting countries, right? And if you want Israel to be an ethno-state for Jews, surely you have some position on diaspora Jewry's crucial, and essentially monolithic, opposition to the very idea (much less realization) of ethno-states for Europeans?
2. But those very diaspora Jews are your friends, allies, and would-be constituents. Surely you have more to say on this subject?
You say it is none of your business what we do in our countries, but isn't what Jews do everywhere your business? Why should we buy this "bright line between Israeli Jews and diaspora Jews" business here, when it exists on no other subject? When in fact it seems employed only in pursuit of Jewry's interests as a whole, which contradicts the very idea of this supposed "bright line"?
Doesn't diaspora Jewry's behavior reflect on Jews as a whole?
Your own demographic makeup is none of our concern.
One day's diaspora Jew is the next day's Israeli Jew. And then back again the next day. Let's not pretend that diaspora Jewry isn't Israeli Jewry's best friend. And diaspora Jewry is pursuing a policy of demographic destruction of European populations out of its perceived self-interest. These are all connected.
Reciprocity would dictate that I should indeed pursue a policy of promoting multiculturalism and open borders for Israel. Or get my BFFs to do it, so I can claim to have clean hands?
Your position is about as rhetorically weak as they come. I suggest you review and improve it. Only the naive or ignorant will find it plausible.
P.S., are you as careful to segment and compartmentalize when it comes to other topics, and other peoples? I doubt it. Jews tend to be pretty free-wheeling with their sweeping statements about anti-semitism, for example. Even if you are, you'd be very much the exception.
Let's see,
The True Finns party, close supporters of Israel, hate mass immigration. Geert Wilders, loves Israel, EU nemesis. Norway's Progress Party, loves Israel, hates mass immigration. I could go on. Israel does have ties to some of these parties, if not all of them.
Do any of you believe that there are a lot of Jews in Europe who welcome mass immigration, considering where it is coming from? Your own governments did this in the '50s, '60s and '70s to build your roads and buildings.
Mostly leftist Jews support mass-immigration, and guess what, they are the ones pushing Israel to admit more illegal immigration from Africa and elsewhere. They don't act in my name when they do so. They're leftists and this is what they do everywhere.
Others may be rich ones who want cheap labor, but rich Christians want the same thing.
My position is simple: If European states cease to be ethno-centric, they lose their raison d'être. And no, I don't support it, Svigor. But I can't stop it, since most Europeans seem to want it.
Did I tell the EU to expand East? Did I leave semi-open borders in the US? Did I invite residents of former colonies to settle in Europe? Your Christian politicians did that, and some of them were not allied with Israel. Israel did not tell you what to do.
Therefore, I wouldn't take kindly to anyone telling me what to do in Israel.
Plenty of leftist groups who supports mass immigration hate Israel with a passion. Go ask a leftist student what he thinks about us and mass-immigration. So, people of all sorts support mass-immigration, regardless of their feelings about Israel.
What Jews do anywhere is none of my business. What's done to them is. For instance, it's none of my business that most Jews support Obamacare. It is my business when Jews are asked to register in Ukraine.
I cannot control what someone who supports Israel does in their country. I am not to blame for multiculturalism. You did this on your own. Blame your politicians and academics.
Israel didn't create the EU or leave a porous US-Mexico border. Neither did Zionists. You guys allowed this to happen. You want to exact revenge on Jews or Israel, fine, but I had nothing to do with your problems.
reiner Tor, Israel doesn't protest election results for anti-immigration parties, unless they happen to hate Jews. I gave a number of examples of anti-mass-immigration parties that support Israel.
As for black Jews living in Israel, if we hadn't wanted them, we wouldn't have sent our airforce to bring them from Africa. As for the matter of birth control, please read this for a more balanced picture:
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.co.il/2013/01/did-israelis-force-contraception-on.html#.U1epfVexe_I
Do any of you believe that there are a lot of Jews in Europe who welcome mass immigration, considering where it is coming from? Your own governments did this in the '50s, '60s and '70s to build your roads and buildings.
I don't believe there are a lot of Jews in Europe, period. But the ones that remain do seem pretty cozy with the Muslims, yes. E.g., Jewish communities were on side with the Muslims on the mosque-building issue not too long ago (sorry, I forget which country).
Mostly leftist Jews support mass-immigration, and guess what, they are the ones pushing Israel to admit more illegal immigration from Africa and elsewhere. They don't act in my name when they do so. They're leftists and this is what they do everywhere.
I don't believe in leftist Jews. Or rather, I think their numbers are vanishingly small. Supposed Jewish leftists are actually faux-leftists. They're Jewish Supremacists first, leftists second. That's how American Jewry can be so adamantly on side for open borders and multiculturalism in America, yet reverse position somewhere over the Atlantic and be adamantly on side for closed borders and Jewish Supremacy in Israel. It's how American Jewry can be Israel's most important foreign ally, yet not lift a finger to enforce their supposed "values" on Israel.
Others may be rich ones who want cheap labor, but rich Christians want the same thing.
It's not the same thing. The rich Europeans are destroying themselves for money. The rich Jews are destroying Europeans for money. The former is thwarting his own ethnic interests, while the latter is pursuing them.
Plenty of leftist groups who supports mass immigration hate Israel with a passion. Go ask a leftist student what he thinks about us and mass-immigration. So, people of all sorts support mass-immigration, regardless of their feelings about Israel.
They're the lunatic fringe. And they're genuine leftists, not Jewish (faux) leftists.
What Jews do anywhere is none of my business. What's done to them is. For instance, it's none of my business that most Jews support Obamacare. It is my business when Jews are asked to register in Ukraine.
Well, that's very convenient for you then.
Post a Comment