July 20, 2013

NYT: Law of supply and demand applies to immigration

From the New York Times, an article about Los Angeles and immigration:
Being Legal Doesn’t End Poverty 
By JENNIFER MEDINA 
LOS ANGELES — THOSE pressing for change in the country’s immigration system like to say that creating a path to citizenship will bring the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants “out of the shadows.” It is taken as a given that legal status will help them climb the economic ladder. 
But in this city, and in urban areas across the country, it seems clear that even with full citizenship, many could remain in the shadow economy, earning cash for low-wage jobs. 
Millions of workers in the United States — those who sew clothes, mow lawns, care for children, construct homes, clean offices and serve food — function almost entirely in a cash economy. For undocumented immigrants, working for cash tends to be the most reliable way to earn an income while avoiding any attention from the government. 
Advocates of the immigration bill have used economic mobility as an argument for legalizing the millions already living here. They enthusiastically embraced a Congressional Budget Office report last month that said the Senate’s immigration bill would increase the size of the labor force and lead to greater productivity, which would raise average wages in the long term and have broad economic impact. Last week, business groups continued to pressure House Republicans to consider similar legislation. 
But it is hardly a given that citizenship is a route to better jobs. 
“Having legal status takes away one threat that people held over their workers, but it doesn’t do much more than that,” in the workplace, said Victor Narro, the project director for the Labor Center at the University of California, Los Angeles. 
When the Labor Center studied wage violations in 2009, it found that foreigners in general were more likely than native-born workers to be paid less than the minimum wage and that undocumented immigrants, particularly women, were even worse off. But the study also found that foreign-born workers who were legal residents were almost twice as likely to be paid less than the minimum wage as American-born employees.

By the way, the minimum wage is a bit of a red herring. You probably need two parents each making, say, three times the minimum wage to have a chance of affording to buy a home in immigrant-heavy California. The husband probably needs to get up to about five times the minimum wage to afford kids.

But, the minimum wage is still part of the picture.
 The cash economy is particularly important in California, which has more undocumented immigrants than any other state and the eighth largest economy in the world. The sheer size of the immigrant work force and economy allows business owners to create a norm of paying off the books that would be unthinkable in another time or place, said Ruth Milkman, a labor expert and professor of sociology at the City University of New York Graduate Center. 
“Employers have really gotten into the habit that this is the normal way of doing business,” Professor Milkman said. “They don’t particularly want to change, and nobody is making them do it. The immigration bill certainly doesn’t change much for employers who take the low road.” 
Day laborers, those men standing in front of Home Depots and on street corners looking for whatever work comes their way, are perhaps the most widely recognizable stream of cash workers. Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries.

No, not the last three categories.
The vast majority are undocumented immigrants. But in recent years, with the economy struggling, more of these immigrants have been standing in lots next to citizens, who are equally eager to find work, said Chris Newman, the legal director for the National Day Laborer Organizing Network. 
“We see people who rotate in and out, they come find work for the day and go to another job at night,” Mr. Newman said. “You lose a foothold in the formal economy and it’s a natural place to go.” 
Last month, the Labor Department reported that there are 2.7 million temp workers, more than ever before. As more large companies rely on temp agencies to fill their ranks, it is possible that more American workers, legally or not, could be treated like day laborers — who can be employed one day and out of a job the next. Mr. Newman repeated something that he has said to himself over and over again amid the debate in Washington: “Immigration laws are malleable, but the law of supply and demand is immutable.”

Right.
The way he sees it, as long as there is growing demand for an informal labor market, there will be people to supply that work force.

Or as long as there is a growing number of people to supply that work force, there will be employers offering only low wages. It really does work in both directions. To help our fellow American citizens, it makes sense to push on both the immigration restriction lever and minimum wage lever simultaneously. They work together to make the other more effective.
Jennifer Medina is a national correspondent for The New York Times.

And here's a sushi restaurant on Rodeo Drive that charges about a $500 per diner, but doesn't let kitchen workers take bathroom breaks or get paid overtime:
But by all appearances, there has been no backlash against the restaurant. Jonathan Gold, the influential food critic for The Los Angeles Times, named it the No. 2 restaurant in the city earlier this year, with no mention of the recent controversy.

83 comments:

Monroe Ficus said...

LOL at believing that you can increase immigration and increase minimum wage. Wouldn't it make more sense to use robots, a la Japan? This is what pisses me off the most, some left wing fantasy land where MacDonalds costs twice as much and you still can't understand the clerk.

Anonymous said...

Day laborers, those men standing in front of Home Depots and on street corners looking for whatever work comes their way, are perhaps the most widely recognizable stream of cash workers. Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries.
Yes, a lot of white folks enjoy hiring illegal immigrants and the ALU protected their rights to solicit there work, but there are probably a small group of them compared to landscaping companies, maids, janitorial, garment work which is returning a little from over seas, nursing home aids, and farm workers, and some restaurant jobs like some cooks and dish washers. Construction and garment sewing were heavily hit in Los Angeles which drove some home. LA once had over a 100,000 construction workers and garment wokers sewing.

Anonymous said...

Last month, the Labor Department reported that there are 2.7 million temp workers, more than ever before. As more large companies rely on temp agencies to fill their ranks, it is possible that more American workers, legally or not, could be treated like day laborers — who can be employed one day and out of a job the next. Mr. Newman repeated something that he has said to himself over and over again amid the debate in Washington: “Immigration laws are malleable, but the law of supply and demand is immutable.
This is true, there are e more temp jobs since the early years of Reagan. Manufacturing, clerical and Engineering and casual labor which a lot of illegal immigrants do is going thru temps. Some smart illegals will moved into a more skilled construction job or become the maid supervisor but they need to learn English.

Anonymous said...

Republicans had the late Bob Perry who supported the Party by creating the Swift Boat ad against John Kerry, he pushed for about 60 percent of Texas construction being done by Hispanics by encouraging independent contractors. In fact, I was shocked to here that even in 1980 Houston preferred Illegal immigrants on construction to whites, a white on National Review Online mention his friend was unable to get a construcation job to an illegal way back in 1980. I thought that only happen in Los Angeles or Santa Ana in 1980, boy was I wrong.

Anonymous said...

Well, back east there are more blacks doing it and some college educated folks. McDonald stop training people for Supervisor, Management and Franchise, and buyer which they use to do when their workers were more white. Two black brothers became rich years ago by owning Franchises but McDonalds doesn't help its workers anymore get into Franchises.

Anonymous said...

And here's a sushi restaurant on Rodeo Drive that charges about a $1,000 per diner, but doesn't let kitchen workers take bathroom breaks or get paid overtime:
But by all appearances, there has been no backlash against the restaurant. Jonathan Gold, the influential food critic for The Los Angeles Times, named it the No. 2 restaurant in the city earlier this year, with no mention of the recent controversy.
Most of these places that are fancy restaurants have head chiefs that are not illegal and some come over from Europe with the work vista but the lower level cooks and dishwasher will be illegal. I see some places trying to use e-verify for cooks, dishwashers and maids but e-verify currently can sometimes be off, it needs improvment.

Anonymous said...

I wish these lefties wouldn't use that meaningless weasel word 'cash' economy and write the more descriptive, honest and better English term 'tax avoidance' economy instead. The huge and substantive losses passed on to honest taxpayers and the competitive disadvantage honest employers are put at is a national scandal - just like corporate off-shore tax avoidance by big business,in fact. But oh no,the lefties won't scream incessantly about this particular tax scam, which is probably bigger and more pernicious in its loss to the US internal revenue.


Matthew said...

The failure is in our government's adamant refusal (for which the elites are well-compensated) to treat the United States like what it is: a form of property to be managed for the benefit of its owners, the citizens.

So long as that element is missing in the economic calculation, the government can pretend to just be filling some bogus need to supply "willing employers" with "willing workers."

The United States is literally a type of property. The government literally owns tens of trillions of dollars in assets in trust for the citizens. So long as the citizens are treated as not having some inherently greater right to that property than someone from China or Mexico or Somalia, we will continue to be robbed of our country.

The government has no greater obligation to supply a businessman with labor at the price he wants to pay than it has an obligation to provide me with $1/gallon gas.

No man is entitled to a job at the wage he wants, and no businessman is entitled to labor at the price he wants. To believe the latter but not the former (as libtard neofeudalists do) is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

Anonymous said...

Take the story of Guillermo Mata; like so many Texas construction workers, he is undocumented. But his story does document a hidden cost of construction that you pay for -- his emergency room bill.

In December, Mata shattered his leg after falling from the second story onto a concrete floor at construction site in Irving.

"Take me to Parkland,” Mata recalls saying after the injury.

Hospitals cannot refuse to treat an injured person, and Texas is the only state in the country where the boss is not on the hook to buy insurance that covers the cost when a worker's injured.

Matthew said...

Rep. Trey Gowdy, of South Carolina, who has mostly been pretty decent on the amnesty issue, not long ago talked about visiting factories in his district that includes Greenville County, South Carolina, Gowdy noted that almost every factory he went to claimed to be in need of more workers. What Gowdy didn't note is that Greenville County has, at 8.6%, the highest percentage of temp workers in the entire country.

Jeff W. said...

Readers here need to recognize three things:

1) The U.S. is not run by its elected government. Its real banker-government stays in the shadows. Jimmy Carter recently said, "America no longer has a functioning democracy." He should know.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/17/jimmy-carter-america-no-longer-has-a-functioning-democracy/

2) The banker government gets its money by creating it in the banking system (printing it). They do not depend on tax revenues or care much about them. In 2008 they created $16 trillion and handed it out.

3) The bankers can create and distribute more money in times of deflation than in times of inflation. Inflation makes them stop printing. This is why they favor low prices on everything that affects the Consumer Price Index: energy (waging wars to keep energy prices down), gold (flooding the market with paper gold), food (increasing crop yields through genetic engineering), and, most importantly, wages.

They are a main source of the idea that low wages are good for us, that they keep us "competitive."

They are hard to beat. It's hard to compete against people who can print trillions any time they want and use it for anything they want.

Anonymous said...

The way he sees it, as long as there is growing demand for an informal labor market, there will be people to supply that work force.


What a polite euphemism - by "informal" he means "illegal". But it's simply not true: if a few people were stood up against the wall and shot for hiring illegal aliens, the whole practice would come to a sudden screeching halt. This supposedly immutable law is actually extremely "mutable".

If you can break any law and not get punished for it, people are going to break that law. If you stood a greater chance of getting stuck by lightening than of getting a ticket for breaking the speed limit, everyone would speed. In today's America you are as likely to be hit by lightening as you are to get in trouble for hiring illegal aliens.

Jonathan Silber said...

Once Obamacare's been around long enough to work its magic, the only doctors many Americans will be able to afford will be these temporary ones who see their patients in the shadows of the parking lot of Home Depot.

Anonymous said...

"But by all appearances, there has been no backlash against the restaurant. Jonathan Gold, the influential food critic for The Los Angeles Times, named it the No. 2 restaurant in the city earlier this year, with no mention of the recent controversy."

Plenty of restaurants in NYC do this as well. No complaints either...Just another conundrum...

Ichabod Crane said...

Honest questions: Are working class people dumber than they used to be? Do they not know what's in their economic interest? Is the majority of our prole population pursuing an American Dream of higher education and a white color work? Don't they know that the American Dream is for Mexicans who want to be fruit pickers and Ellis Island descendants who want to rule the world?

Anonymous said...

http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/George-P-Bush-starts-small-amid-high-expectations-4676503.php?cmpid=houtexhcat


sweet pea

peabod

peabrain

Anonymous said...

The worst offender states
California
Texas
New York
Florida
Ill-Chicago
Nevada(high percentage)

Big Bill said...

But the advantage of legalizing Mexican illegals is not to get them higher wages. The wages will remain the same as long as the borders stay open, as Cesar Chavez noted.

The goal of legalization is to get them onto the government teat and to get them to vote for Democratic politicians.

Once the Democrats are ensconced as the Permanent Ruling Party, they will be able to get the Mexicans all the benefits they want.

Wages can stay low (to please the plutocrats) and the benefits can come either form deficits or from taxes paid by the now-disappearing white middle class.

Either way, the Democrats rule, the Plutocrats get cheap labor, and the white middle class disappears.

As the country polarizes, the white middle class disappears and there is increasing pressure to get the Plutocrats to pay for the destitute American population, the Plutocrats will be decamping for more favorable tax havens, getting US laws changed to exempt income held in foreign countries, rejiggering their corporate structures to be non-taxable offshore entities and a host of other financial machinations that will shift their wealth out US control.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't end poverty because by any reasonable standard they aren't poor. Folks living in first world countries aren't poor. Period. They are fat, clothed, and sheltered and have access to medical care. So this poverty stuff is just BS.

They are low status, but come one, we can't all be high status, by definition. Duh.

Mike said...

I have hired several thousand undocumented workers in California. The market there simply demands it. The native population really does think they are above dirty jobs in the state. Add to that the cost of hiring legal workers and you have no chance of making a profit competing against companies that hire illegals.

Go one state over (AZ) and the market is completely different. There are ample native born workers willing to do any job and their wages, while higher, are reasonable. Of course, most companies in AZ have legal staff so you can compete with a 100% American workforce.

Making everyone in CA legal will have zero affect on almost anyones wages or job choices. There is simply such a volume of labor available there will be one person out of a million that will have new opportunities open up.

The doctor/engineer etc thing from the article is pure gibberish. You can go to Tijuana and see Mexicans waiting for work outside Home Depot. I have never talked to a Hispanic laborer who has ever claimed to have a fancy job back home.

Helm said...

"Day laborers, those men standing in front of Home Depots and on street corners looking for whatever work comes their way, are perhaps the most widely recognizable stream of cash workers. Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries."

-If you ever needed proof that most NYT columns are written by people who are institutionalized, or need to be....

Anonymous said...

Waging economic warfare on your fellow citizens on this scale should count as treason.

Anonymous said...

"The native population really does think they are above dirty jobs in the state."

The bluecollar population who used to do those jobs were pushed out by illegals years ago.

Anonymous said...

"Being legal doesn't end poverty".

So why then, import poverty?

Anonymous said...

I have hired several thousand undocumented workers in California. The market there simply demands it. The native population really does think they are above dirty jobs in the state. Add to that the cost of hiring legal workers and you have no chance of making a profit competing against companies that hire illegals.

Go one state over (AZ) and the market is completely different. There are ample native born workers willing to do any job and their wages, while higher, are reasonable. Of course, most companies in AZ have legal staff so you can compete with a 100% American workforce.

Making everyone in CA legal will have zero affect on almost anyones wages or job choices. There is simply such a volume of labor available there will be one person out of a million that will have new opportunities open up.

The doctor/engineer etc thing from the article is pure gibberish. You can go to Tijuana and see Mexicans waiting for work outside Home Depot. I have never talked to a Hispanic laborer who has ever claimed to have a fancy job back home.

7/20/13, 5:07 PM
Arizona was going the way of California about 6 to 7 years ago. They enacted laws and yes white people still do those jobs. In fact you will find Mexican maids and white maids and Mexican construcation workers and white consturcation workers.

Anonymous said...

Arizona is thankful to Russell Pierce one of the few on the Republican Right that really did someting by penalizing companies of hiring them, an e-verify for most jobs and cut off of benefits.

Anonymous said...

"Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries."

Proof that the purpose of propaganda (as I think Steve pointed out once) is not to misinform, but to humiliate. In printing such a deliberate lie, they are simply rubbing our noses in the fact they hold the levers of power in this country, and we don't. They can print whatever lie they choose, and we can bend over and take it.

Anonymous said...

Anyway, Mexican children of illegal immirgants have a different view when they saw only 8 per hr for a laborer job or 15 per hr for a plumber they bulk at it. Hispanics as a group are more pro-union, granted the unions have not help them as much.

Antioco Dascalon said...

Maybe the are engineers, doctors and architects. They are just "undocumented".
"So, you're a doctor. Where's your medical license?"
"I don't have one"
"What about your medical school diploma."
"I don't have one."
"Ok, operate away!"

Anonymous said...

To the guy who hires illegals in CA

Look dipshit, how many times do we have to tell you: we don't think we're above the work, YOU AREN'T OFFERIG ENOUGH MONEY

Anonymous said...

To the guy who hires illegals in CA

Look dipshit, how many times do we have to tell you: we don't think we're above the work, YOU AREN'T OFFERIG ENOUGH MONEY
Probably what happen is whites were chase out of it years ago and Hispanics came to dominate it. I read of a white guy even in Orange County where the whites have less blue collar workers mentioning that housing tract jobs are impossible while commerical construcation jobs hire whites. A lot of low skilled whites that are living in motels or homeless would be hard to retrain for construcation if they have a drug abuse industry.

Jefferson said...

In North Dakota you still find plenty of Whites doing blue collar jobs that you rarely see them doing in New York, Texas, Florida, and California.

ben tillman said...

Jennifer Medina is a national correspondent for The New York Times.

And guess what else she is. She's not just a descendant of the anusim (conversos), as the name "Medina" would suggest; she's actually a practicing Orthodox Jew who keeps kosher:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/dining/kosher-in-los-angeles-goes-beyond-corned-beef-and-a-knish.html

Reg Cæsar said...

To help our fellow American citizens, it makes sense to push on both the immigration restriction lever and minimum wage lever simultaneously. They work together to make the other more effective.

"Minimum wage", or "minimum wages"?

Why assume the minimum wage has to be the same for everyone? Randall Burns at Vdare.com once suggested adding a few dollars to the MW for non-citizens. I would go further: no resident alien shoild be allowed to work for less than the median wage.

Five years or more at median-plus wages should winnow out most of the alien chaff. Now which state-- yes, I said state, screw Congress-- will be the first to enact this? State already set higher minimums, and already discriminate against non-citizens, so they'd just be combining the two.

Anononymous said...

Mike said:
"The native population really does think they are above dirty jobs in the state."


And they also think they are above living incognito and not paying taxes and not complying with minimum wage laws and other regulations.

cynical boer said...

This anti-immigration stance works as long as you've got a white majority to protect politically.
Here in South Africa all is lost.

So whites actually encourage illegal immigration by employing them where they can. Illegals are much more willing to work, even if paid a proper wage. That sounds crazy but is in accordance with African logic, where the work ethic is usually inversely proportional to the wage level.

Illegal immigration displaces South African blacks who are for ever demanding more and want to work less. It also dilutes the political power and coherence of local blacks. What's not to like? In a way it is payback for railroading whites politically.

The result is that unemployment is at 70% and rising.

Anonymous said...

I know a soap opera actor that didn't get any acting jobs for a long time who then worked as a construction worker.

There are still MANY construction jobs in Los Angeles filled by whites...but they tend to be the 'intelligent' jobs. You'll see the Mexican standing in the street directing traffic while the white guys are repairing the water main. Which makes me think...why did you hire this guy if all he can do is stand in the street directing traffic?

It's like in Los Angeles instead of having 4 smart well-paid white men who can do everything...there is like 2 smart wage depressed men and like 5 Mexicans who carry things back and forth.

Hiring Illegal Immigrants massively lowers quality and efficiency....but lines the pockets of the bad guys.



Orange Flavored MF said...

" In printing such a deliberate lie, they are simply rubbing our noses in the fact they hold the levers of power in this country, and we don't. They can print whatever lie they choose, and we can bend over and take it."

- In the little Fantasyland the writers create in their heads they may think the people bend over and take it, but their VP of Circulation knows otherwise.

Anonymous said...

"Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries."

I call B.S. on this, but if it is true it is a clarion call for keeping professional certification requirements tight to keep the global elites from flooding the market with immigrants. Professional certification is just another word for professional unionization.

Anonymous said...

"Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries."

Proof that the purpose of propaganda (as I think Steve pointed out once) is not to misinform, but to humiliate. In printing such a deliberate lie, they are simply rubbing our noses in the fact they hold the levers of power in this country, and we don't."


Proof also that the little reporter/writer princess didn't interview any of those dudes herself. Stupid fool.

Anonymous said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2371780/Journalist-recalls-night-Obama-mistaken-waiter-literati-party.html

The Narrative getting silly.

Obama is a poor poor victim cuz someone mistook him for a waiter.
Uhhhhhh.

Shame! We should mistake him as the messiah instead. And confuse a whore with a waiter?

HDS said...

Not so off-topic: what does Tracy Martin do for a living>? I've read he's an independent truck driver but I think that's a lie. I think he's just unemployed. What does he live on?

My answer is drugs and women. I had thought he was married to Sybrina then took up with current gf after a reasonable interval. Not so. He was married for 14 years to Alicia Stanley, who has recently surfaced. Stanley was the real mother to Trayvon. He did not live with Sybrina, who is doing a good job playing bereaved doting mother.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2013/06/trayvon-martins-stepmother-alicia.html

http://newsone.com/2622820/trayvon-martin-alicia-stanley/

Anonymous said...

And guess what else she is. She's not just a descendant of the anusim (conversos), as the name "Medina" would suggest; she's actually a practicing Orthodox Jew who keeps kosher:

Yeah, "Medina" is one of those names, like "Turkheimer", which makes you say to yourself, "Hmmm... I'd like to learn a little bit more about the etymology [& genealogy & history] of that one."

Anonymous said...

I know a soap opera actor that didn't get any acting jobs for a long time who then worked as a construction worker.

There are still MANY construction jobs in Los Angeles filled by whites...but they tend to be the 'intelligent' jobs. You'll see the Mexican standing in the street directing traffic while the white guys are repairing the water main. Which makes me think...why did you hire this guy if all he can do is stand in the street directing traffic?

It's like in Los Angeles instead of having 4 smart well-paid white men who can do everything...there is like 2 smart wage depressed men and like 5 Mexicans who carry things back and forth.

Hiring Illegal Immigrants massively lowers quality and efficiency....but lines the pockets of the bad guys.
You have a point the white guys should do all the construcation work. Probably, the city of Los Angeles wants to allow so many Mexicans since the politicans cather to them. It would actually save the city money if they just hired the whites.



Anonymous said...

Proof also that the little reporter/writer princess didn't interview any of those dudes herself. Stupid fool.

Uhh, no, this is iSteve - the working* assumption here is that she DID interview those dudes herself, but consciously, intentionally, and purposefully chose to go with the lie, despite knowing [from the interviews] what the actual truth was.

*Well, modulo the probability that to actually interview any of them she would have had to have actually gotten off her lazy, ah, big-but-beautiful actual posterior, actually driven her air-conditioned car down to an, ACK!, Home Depot, actually dismounted into the actual 120F fry-an-egg-on-the-asphalt sun-baked heat of the actual parking lot, and actually welcomed an engulfing swarm of ah, all those handsome charming young, ah, Mesoamerican Aboriginal actual engineers and actual architects and actual doctors, each of whom actually spoke the most impeccable Queen's English in a flawless high-Oxford accent.

Uhh, yeah, that's the ticket.

But, again, the working assumption here at iSteve is that she did go down to Home Depot, she did [at least attempt to] interview them, she did learn the truth of the matter, but that nevertheless she chose to lie about it anyway.


PS: The preceding snark can apply equally well to Medina or Milkman.

Anonymous said...

Well, we know that is BS because in ciities or areas of the city with a lot of illegal imirgants 30 percent of the population usually has educational levels 9th grade or lower.

Anonymous said...

I call B.S. on this, but if it is true it is a clarion call for keeping professional certification requirements tight to keep the global elites from flooding the market with immigrants. Professional certification is just another word for professional unionization.
Well, what happen is both Friedman and Sowell wrote against certifications because they kept out immirgants and blacks out of some blue collar jobs. This is why Libertarians and your average Tea Party Republcian is against cerification.

Anonymous said...

Illegal immigration displaces South African blacks who are for ever demanding more and want to work less. It also dilutes the political power and coherence of local blacks. What's not to like? In a way it is payback for railroading whites politically.

The same is true in the US. Illegal immigrants displace local blacks. I think that is its purpose.

Hacienda said...

I see some places trying to use e-verify for cooks, dishwashers and maids but e-verify currently can sometimes be off, it needs improvment.
-----------------------

Thank God that there are growing millions of dark people who are indifferent to the process of monstrosities like "e-verify". What some whites see as salvation, will be white's complete undoing. As if whites are a saved race in the first place. Jesus. The profoundness of white ignorance!

Anonymous said...

Two stories about dealing with refugees, in Israel and Australia:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-israel-refugees-20130716,0,3081312.story

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-australia-rudd-asylum-20130719,0,7387211.story

Anonymous said...

Well, the Republicians to scream the 47 percent, so we ended up with Obama. Republicanians uusally have one candidate running for Prsident that is pro-legalization. George H Bush, Jack Kemp the VP for Bob Dole was even worst than Bob DOle. Jack is a hero to Republicans even if is horrible on immirgation because of the Supply-side economics. Both George W Bush and Dick Cheney. John MCCain and not certain on Palin. Romney was better in the primarly but not strongly opposed. Paul Ryan a daring of some in the Tea Party movement was very pro-legalization.

Anonymous said...

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/07/sean-trende-a-rosy-future-for-the-republicans-without-immigration-reform-if-they-appeal-to-downscale-whites/#more-19898

Saistrat going mainstream?

Anonymous said...

SHOOT AND RUN than STAND YOUR GROUND in Chicago.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-shootings-violence-july-20-to-21-20130720,0,110934.story

Anonymous said...

PHIL IS WINNING, PHIL IS WINNING.

Another major that paper tiger does not win and another yr on the calendar with no major

PHIL IS....WINNING!

Corn said...

"Why assume the minimum wage has to be the same for everyone? Randall Burns at Vdare.com once suggested adding a few dollars to the MW for non-citizens. I would go further: no resident alien shoild be allowed to work for less than the median wage.

Five years or more at median-plus wages should winnow out most of the alien chaff. Now which state-- yes, I said state, screw Congress-- will be the first to enact this? State already set higher minimums, and already discriminate against non-citizens, so they'd just be combining the two."

I'm not a lawyer so I don't know. Could this be done? When a state like AZ passes a strict border enforcement act the federal courts often gut it or or at least take a bite out of it, claiming the order is the federal government's job. But if some state passed a law mandating say- $9 per hr. minimum for citizens and $14 per hour minimum for non-citizens -would that fly legally?

Anonymous said...

OT...

Steve, I was right (just had to say that). Mickelson won! Unfortunatley, I didn't see it. Will catch the re-run on the Golf Channel later. A 66! He's a resilient guy.

pat said...

Things have changed.

Sar Levitan was the leading defender of the minimum wage as far back as I can remember. He wrote the classic defense called "More Than Subsistence: Minimum Wages for the Working Poor".

When I was a graduate TA at George Washington University I used to go by his office. But I never actually ever saw him. He was an academic star who seems to have been given a convenient office in the Capitol near Congress and the various agencies and lobbyists.

He was essentially a supporter of unions and unionization. In those days that made him a moderate among the leftists who infested the corridors of power. He viewed the minimum wage as a policy to bolster labor unions. The idea was to reduce the competition to high priced union labor by outlawing low priced labor.

The main targeted groups were blacks, teens, and immigrants. Levitan had to defend the minimum wage against charges that it was nativist and racist.

If he were still alive and if the American Labor movement were still alive, I'm sure they would be against so-called immigration reform.

Albertosaurus

gubbler of the church of reformed chechenism said...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/marte-deborah-dalelv-sentenced-norwegian-rape-dubai_n_3624867.html

progs bitch about legal culture in the Muslim world but say more Muslims should be allowed to come to Europe.

Anonymous said...

"The failure is in our government's adamant refusal (for which the elites are well-compensated) to treat the United States like what it is: a form of property to be managed for the benefit of its owners, the citizens."

This is what the Alpine guides did in Chamonix, France.

You had to be born in the Chamonix Valley to become a guide. When they needed more guides after the war, they only let people who had married into a family in the valley or who owned property in the valley for a number of of years to become a guide.

The "foreigners" they wouldn't let in were other French people.

They also set tariffs for each climb to avoid cut-throat competition.

These things improved the wages and kept the valley to themselves.

Anonymous said...

"The failure is in our government's adamant refusal (for which the elites are well-compensated) to treat the United States like what it is: a form of property to be managed for the benefit of its owners, the citizens."

This is what the Alpine guides did in Chamonix, France.

You had to be born in the Chamonix Valley to become a guide. When they needed more guides after the war, they only let people who had married into a family in the valley or who owned property in the valley for a number of of years to become a guide.

The "foreigners" they wouldn't let in were other French people.

They also set tariffs for each climb to avoid cut-throat competition.

These things improved the wages and kept the valley to themselves.

Anonymous said...

and Texas is the only state in the country where the boss is not on the hook to buy insurance that covers the cost when a worker's injured"

Thanks to conservatives and the anti-regulation stance we have to pay for this.

That's what conservatism is about now: socializing costs.

Anonymous said...

@RegCaesar; @Corn

Now which state-- yes, I said state, screw Congress-- will be the first to enact this? State already set higher minimums, and already discriminate against non-citizens, so they'd just be combining the two.

I'm not a lawyer so I don't know. Could this be done?

Probably requires Congressional action to sanction before states would validly enact. Congress created citizen/alienage distinctions for medicare eligibility I think.

The reason is at the state level alienage is a suspect class. Laws dealing with it are subject to heightened scrutiny, unless the law involves security or self-government, or the democratic process. The basic reason is that the EPC clause of the 14th Amd says "any person" rather than "any citizen."

As an example, a state can ban resident aliens from being a state trooper, but not sitting for the bar or becoming a notary public.

Fernandinande said...

Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries.

I found a guy at the HomeDepot parking lot who did my laser retina-reattachment surgery for only $7.50/hour, then he redesigned my estate for only $6.50/hour...people tell me it looks great!

Anonymous said...

'm not a lawyer so I don't know. Could this be done? When a state like AZ passes a strict border enforcement act the federal courts often gut it or or at least take a bite out of it, claiming the order is the federal government's job. But if some state passed a law mandating say- $9 per hr. minimum for citizens and $14 per hour minimum for non-citizens -would that fly legally?
You have a point, another method is to go to the other extreme a lower minimum for those under 18 years old. So, a kid in high school or just out will then have an advantage to an illegal immigrant in fast food unless its working during school hours or late at night.

DPG said...

"'Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries.'

No, not the last three categories."

Classic. I know a guy in my company who used to be an engineer on a Caribbean island. He works in the back office of our large financial company and probably makes 60K. How on earth could someone smart enough to get in at the NYT think that a doctor would come here to be a day laborer?

Anonymous said...

http://www.examiner.com/article/more-than-a-dozen-illegal-aliens-gang-raped-13-year-old-girl-texas

I guess the girl wasn't black. Otherwise, we would have heard

'white hispanics rape unarmed black girl'.

Davis said...

I've noticed that Hacienda has become completely incoherent over the last few weeks. He's a Korean version of Whiskey but much angrier.

E-Verify will be our undoing? Please don't make your points so cryptic. Explain, buddy.

Anonymous said...

"http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/prosecutor-asks-boy-rape-attempted-murder-7-year-o/nYsHf/"

But the kid was 'unarmed', so maybe he's just an innocent 'child'.

Anonymous said...

http://owl.li/nawyS

George Zimmerman and Barack Obama share same disapproval rating


Given Obama has been praised and protected by the media whereas Zimmerman was pounded and punished by the media, this is a win for Zimmerman.

Even after all that furor, half of the nation thinks he's a good guy.

Anonymous said...

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/trayvon_martin/#.UexcOtK-r7Q

The pro-Trayvon campaign shows how illiberal ‘anti-racism’ has become

Anonymous said...


Urgent Need!!!!

Currently seeking Production Workers

&/or

Material Handlers

Must have previous experience in food/beverage mfg

Must Have a HSD or GED

Must Pass Drug Test


Call Mary

For Immediate Consideration
Production workers are known to hire illegals but with the high school/ged requirment half will not get the job. Most illegals that passed high school were brought here as kids or some that want to the GED. This is another way of cutting illegal immirgants in some of the low skilled jobs is to require high school since they are more likely to not have high school than the native born.

Anonymous said...

"The United States is literally a type of property. The government literally owns tens of trillions of dollars in assets in trust for the citizens. So long as the citizens are treated as not having some inherently greater right to that property than someone from China or Mexico or Somalia, we will continue to be robbed of our country."

Yup.

Anonymous said...

Liberal 'mentality'.

Maybe one problem is the headline-ization and partisan-ization of news.

In the old days, there was three main news networks. Though biased toward liberalism, it wasn't blatantly biased. A show like Nightline would have aired and heard all sides.

Also, the ideal of journalism back then was to be 'objective', or objective as possible without too much editorializing. And terminology used to be more neutral.

But the news culture has changed. So, those who tune onto MSNBC and CNN will get hardline Liberal take on things, and those who turn on FOX will get Conservative take on things. Buchanan wrote about this in his book, how this nation is coming apart, with liberals getting their news only from liberal sources, and cons getting their news only from con sources.

Also, the culture has changed so much that even 'objective' news stories pretty much openly push an agenda, such as 'gay marriage'. Also, the use of terminology itself is a form of editorializing. For instance, if even objective news stories use terms like 'homophobia' or 'non-citizens'(instead of illegal aliens), the editorialization is built into the reportage. The Liberal media really needs to be deconstructed.

And then, there is the internet, and a lot of people on facebook don't even bother reading the news. They just read the headlines, and they form their impression of news on those headlines, often inflammatory on all pages whether Lib or Con.

So, even though some Libs are knowingly being assholes about this, I think a lot of them know the story only from headlines and angry talking heads on their favorite 'news' shows.

They heard stuff like 'unarmed kid with skittles' shot by 'white male' and 'racial profiling' and etc, etc. and they form their own pics in their minds. They sound incredibly stupid but maybe they are just willfully ignorant.

Anonymous said...

The three Stooges of conservatism. No wonder American conservatism is in the shi* can.

Anonymous said...

Well, the one person from San Antinio mention about higher income Mexicans paying real estate. I looked at one of these sites and Spanish is one of the languages for foreign nationals besides the Asian ones. I believe some changes in the economy might shift some of the poor Mexicans ones and a higher class will move in to get away from the drug cartels and so forth. Mexicans will become more like Asian immirgants both high and low class which is better but has some of its problems. This might help Americans become more favorable to the Mexicans in the long run and becoming a Hispanic country would be less worst than its currently.

Anonymous said...

Also, the ideal of journalism back then was to be 'objective', or objective as possible without too much editorializing. And terminology used to be more neutral.

My impression of this era was that the media leaned just as left as they do today, only they could get away with calling themselves "objective" because it was not questioned to a great degree. The questioning could not happen because the media truly held a monopoly on the megaphone.

If you were smart you could pick out the bias, for example only people on the right were labelled "ultra", "hard line" or "extremist". Communists and extreme leftists would be interviewed with no discussion about their background. But this was too subtle for the average person to detect.

Hacienda said...

Explain, buddy.
----------------

Not angry. Having a good time. But can understand, why you might think that.

Really, I'm having fun.

I don't like drawing lines for people for follow. Let's get that straight.

What does- NSA, Homeland Security, digitization of private knowledge, disappearance of racial loyalty, genetic engineering, black political power, frighteningly fast demographic decline of whites have in common?

Nothing I want to explain to you.

As the great Louis Armstrong, if I have to explain, you won't get.


Mr. Anon said...

"And here's a sushi restaurant on Rodeo Drive that charges about a $500 per diner, but doesn't let kitchen workers take bathroom breaks or get paid overtime:"

Anyone who is thinking about eating at this establishment should consider what the phrase "doesn't let kitchen workers take bathroom breaks" might imply about the cleanliness of this restaurant's kitchen.

Anonymous said...

"They heard stuff like 'unarmed kid with skittles' shot by 'white male' and 'racial profiling' and etc, etc. and they form their own pics in their minds. They sound incredibly stupid but maybe they are just willfully ignorant."

Most people aren't news junkies so they take in information in little bursts. That's why a simple thing like the media using the picture of Martin as a little kid not only massively undermined Zimmerman's chance of a fair trial but has likely already got a bunch of people killed with plenty more to come - simply through making people angry because they thought it was a little kid.

"let's you and him fight"
signed
MSM

Svigor said...

1) The U.S. is not run by its elected government. Its real banker-government stays in the shadows. Jimmy Carter recently said, "America no longer has a functioning democracy." He should know.

America's real gov't is right out there, under the heat lamps. The media is the First Estate. Bankers? WTF is the diff?

Anonymous said...

"My impression of this era was that the media leaned just as left as they do today, only they could get away with calling themselves "objective" because it was not questioned to a great degree. The questioning could not happen because the media truly held a monopoly on the megaphone."

But people like Pat Buchanan were nationally syndicated columnists.
Even libs were not nuts about homos. ACLU was staunchly for free speech. Nightline was a pretty decent show. Royko and Breslin were tough guy writers.

Things were less correct. People could laugh at All in the Family.
Opinions were less correct, and there was more distance between hard news and editorializing.

Now, it's hard to tell real news from the onion, pop culture from porn, liberal humanism from pop fascism(of Hollywood), rationalism from hysteria.

And students used to protest against professors and elites in the name of the people. Now, 'radical' students bark at the 'less evolved' masses at the behest of their professors. They are running dogs. Look at Oberlin's KKK freak out.

CS said...

Raising the minimum wage will increase unemployment among American citizens or drive more of them into the underground economy because fewer workers are worth twelve bucks, or whatever the new minimum rate would be, than eight bucks or whatever the current minimum rate is.

What would protect American workers, i.e., the people who supposedly rule in America's supposedly democratic state, is to eliminate minimum wage laws, thereby reducing the appeal of America to immigrant workers.

At the same time, a negative tax regime should be introduced that ensures bona fide US citizens a living wage, as discussed here.

Anonymous said...

"Often, these men were mechanics, engineers or even architects and doctors in their home countries."

Literally lol'd. As we all know, Mexican engineers are often on the verge of starvation. Their only hope for survival is heading north to the land of milk and honey, where crops are rotting in the fields.