India Tries Using Cash Bonuses to Slow Birthrates
By JIM YARDLEY
As its population threatens to turn from an asset into a burden, India seeks ways to encourage delayed childbirth.
... Waiting also would allow India more time to curb a rapidly growing population that threatens to turn its demography from a prized asset into a crippling burden. With almost 1.2 billion people, India is disproportionately young; roughly half the population is younger than 25. This “demographic dividend” is one reason some economists predict that India could surpass China in economic growth rates within five years. India will have a young, vast work force while a rapidly aging China will face the burden of supporting an older population.
India's horrific overpopulation is a "prized asset?" Maybe if you've lost all sense of smell.
It's really striking how in the U.S., expressing the concerns about Third World overpopulation that were fashionable for the likes of Johnny Carson and Nelson Rockefeller have vanished into the maw of diversity worship. One big reason is the seldom-mentioned but omnipresent alliance between the diversity lobby and the cheap labor lobby.
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116 comments:
Modern journalists have the intellectual rigor of a high school senior the week before spring break. There is no such thing
as a demographic dividend and the mis-characterization of it being caused by a young work force is just that.
Population structures are wavelike in that changes do not appear immediately but rather slowly build up over time and really
become visible as later age cohorts appear. The so-called demographic dividend is nothing more than the transition from R-
selection to K-selection caused by changing social expectations and economic environment. When the transformation to a lower
birth rate occurs, the impact on total work force is not apparent immediately as babies do not turn into productive workers
overnight. However, what does happen is that the dependency ratio, working population - (children + elderly), decreases due
to their being fewer children, theoretically allowing people to accrue more disposable income and increase consumption.
Inevitably those children do grow up and enter the work force and you end up with a population with a greater degree of
retirees to workers which depending on the degree of entitlements could be merely troublesome to bankrupting. Further, this
higher dependency ratio would inevitably mean more saving (and less consumption) by workers because they do not expect
either their fewer children or the state to take care of them.
What you gain on the upside you lose on the downside. The whole demographic dividend is simply hollow sophistry, the fancy
of idiot economists with low future time orientation who think that the quantity of labour counts more than the productive
quality.
The whole discussion about India overtaking China because of younger workers and lower dependency ratios is a wash. Indian dependency ratios will remain high for the simple fact that Indian women don't work. Unless they are among the lower two quintiles who face the prospective choice of working or not-eating, the majority of Indian women still do not enter the work force or leave it after childbirth. The working professional Indian woman (middle to upper middle class by developed western standards) is a statistically insignificant minority that is probably not even a centile of the total population. I won't even bother mentioning the HBD factor since most people here at Steve's should already be fully aware of it.
Mike from Canada
A "young, vast workforce" ? Hey, doesn't that sound like our Latino invaded neighbors to the south ?
One would have thought that the lack of success educating your black population to first-world standard should have raised alarms about importing an even larger such group.
Of course, I don't mean to imply Canada is doing better with it's own black population, as one look at it's various "most wanted" lists will attest.
Good luck with your economy in the coming decades, and thank you for providing a 2000 mile-wide glacis between us and Mexico. It IS tough trying to walk from North Dakota to Manitoba in a snowstorm.
Going further in this direction, the American "Left" political platform has been evolved and molded over time so that there really is no American Left. It is a FakeLeft.
If the GOP is in control, then taxes are low, the war machine is a go, worker protections are degraded, etc.etc.
And if the Dems are in control, the diversity/cheap labor machine is a go, and the aspects of fakeLeftism that distract from populist economics issues are in focus: i.e., gay rights, enviro-worship, anti-religion, hillbilly-hating, rise to the fore.
It's a Win-Win situation for Capital in ameica because, you see, there is no true left.
-cryofan
Great read Anon #1! How about a recognisable handle?
It really is an amazing flip. The fundamental arguments against overpopulation were 1. Basic food supply / security, 2. Other Natural Resource exhaustion / scarcity, 3. Environmental degradation and pollution - which are all quite instinctively Malthusian. Were it not for Borlaug's Green revolution of new high fertilizer-uptake breeds, we would still be at that stage of thinking.
But a more subtle and convincing rationale emerged in the field of Economic Growth and Development with the Solow model. If Wealth is Real Productivity and Real Productivity is related to Real Capital Per Capita, then Growth (or Decline) is the net of the forces of savings, depreciation, and population growth.
The more you save, the more capital is available per worker in the next cycle. The more capital depreciates, the less that will be available.
But the faster your population grows, there will be less capital *on average* to equip each new individual with the tools and endowments they need to achieve a higher quality of life than their forebears. High Population growth can actually overwhelm all increases resulting from productivity and savings, and still leave an "advancing" country poorer than it was at a lower-level of technology.
This idea had, and continues to have, a profound influence on the Chinese one-child policy (and seems to be perpetuating itself more or less spontaneously in Korea, Japan, and most of Europe).
In a slow-growth of capital world, (land and coast endowment, for example, is fixed) the pie is not growing fast enough, so less kids = more inheritance per kid. No need for primogeniture when couples all seem to voluntarily have one child and concentrate wealth of dozens in their great-grandchildren.
Also, there's a "risk homeostasis" or "risk compensation" element to all this. An uncontrolled population (either voluntarily or through state-coercion) will hit a new equilibrium growth-rate at the level of burden or poverty individual couples are willing to tolerate. If you hit them with a positive wealth-shock or productivity-shock (like giving them new agricultural breeds with double or triple productivity and with Vitamin-production), if preferences don't change, people will continue having kids until the former level of misery is reestablished.
The hope is that family-size preferences will change, and the trend is that they have been *slowly* changing (depending on the society) - but hope is not a plan. It should be borne in mind that during the last cycle of overpopulation fretting over four decades ago - the population of India was less than half what it is today. Remember those Ethiopian famines? Their population has doubled (from 40 to 80 million) since only 1984.
A lot of people wonder why some countries (often "sub-Saharan African countries) seem to not advanced much in productivity or standard-of-living in the last few decades. It's just a big mystery to most right-thinking people. There are many reasons, of course, but Growth Economists actually do this "population growth attribution" calculation, and as you might guess, rapid population growth is estimated to cause the majority of the stagnation (though by no means does it explain it all).
So, hooray NYT - keep boasting about those demographic dividends, and then, of course, make the logical step to the implication for further US immigration. Alas Babylon.
No Steve, we stopped hearing about the 'population explosion' and 'soaring birth-rates' at precisely the same time that white birth-rates worldwide, fell below replacement level sometime in the 70s.
Of course Ehrlich's points are just as valid (even more so) today than back in the 60s, but to castigate the blacks and browns for their fecundity strikes the powers-that-be as a mite churlish.
"Indian dependency ratios will remain high for the simple fact that Indian women don't work."
Ever been to India, asshole?
Women work all over the place, as slaves. I saw women breaking rocks outside Delhi.
--Bemused
You can't draw attention to global overpopulation because it's due entirely to procreation by resource poor and human capital deficient Africans, Amerindians, Indians, and Muslims. In effect, you would be opposing the coming world domination by browns and the Sons of Allah, and of course that makes you a loathsome bigot.
>Indian dependency ratios will remain high for the simple fact that Indian women don't work. Unless they are among the lower two quintiles who face the prospective choice of working or not-eating, the majority of Indian women still do not enter the work force or leave it after childbirth.<
This is the next great task of the international elites: change India's culture to get all women working.
"Meanwhile, many national politicians have been wary of promoting population control ever since an angry public backlash against a scandal over forced vasectomies during the 1970s."
Even when India is authoritarian it's not very good at getting the job done.
This 'demographic dividend' drivel is pushed not only by idiotic journalistas, but also by their counterparts on the other extreme end, the ultra-libertarian Austrians and hyper-free-markets pushers. This is one of the key issues that I disagree with the free market pushers.
The people in your free market matter. You can't have a free market with chimpanzees. But then again, we knew that already.
It would be progress to come up with a good name for the alliance between corporations and multiculturalists. What did progressives call their opponents above and below them when arguing for the 1924 reforms?
Hey Steven; I just read on vdare that you are going on a speaking tour, that's great!
When you come to Albuquerque, you can count on me buying a ticket (as long as it's not more than $25, I can't pay you like paid Quannell X, sorry).
I noticed that article yesterday too. "Prized Asset". What can you say to that. The liberal elite has drank the PC cool-aid. They are hopeless.
Hey Anonymous, Don't make it so hard. Too much convoluted sophistry. Here is all you need to know: 1.3 BILLION people, in an area one third the size of the United States. Too many. TOO MANY PEOPLE.
India could slough off 1 Billion people and the country would still be uncomfortably overcrowded.
Looking in my leftist phrasebook, I see that "economic growth" in Leftish means "third world squalor and disease" in English.
How many children has the author spawned to contribute to his "economic growth"? Five? Ten? Twenty?
Conversation with girlfriend:
"Honey, if you will just squirt out a score of sprogs we will be rich, Rich, RICH!"
Lightly populated rural areas can smell badly, too.
OTOH highly overpopulated Singapore or Monaco or Tokyo probably smells okay.
I'm surprised that an HBD'er thinks what matters is the quantity of people.
Steve Sailer said..."It's really striking how in the U.S., expressing the concerns about Third World overpopulation that were fashionable for the likes of Johnny Carson and Nelson Rockefeller have vanished into the maw of diversity worship. One big reason is the seldom-mentioned but omnipresent alliance between the diversity lobby and the cheap labor lobby."
Another big reason, I suspect THE big reason, among the useful idiots on the left, is the color of the majority of Third World inhabitants. Those idiots are the same ones who'd object to your use of "Third" instead of "developing" to describe the overpopulated and under-developed areas of the world.
Re the article, I shall run amok if the US ever institutes a policy of "gestational" or "reproductive" asylum.
India will never surpass China for one simple reason:
Average IQ:
China 100
India 81
(per Richard Lynn)
maybe it's no conspiracy or leftist political-correctness
it's just ugly to refer to human-beings in dehumanizing terms: overpopulation is one.
we're all supposed to be individuals of unlimited capacity, remember?
of unlimited moral worth, remember?
yeah, that's the think about a racial/ethnic reductionist sociologist such as yourself--you prize seeing people in patterns and statistics.
lost is the lone individual.
i'm struggling to describe Mr. Steve Sailer
so far, i've come up with this:
he is an Ethnic/Racial-Reductionist-Sociologist
that is to say, he prizes teh ethnic and racial underppinning of all social phenomeno
i shouldn't say all...
but he believes race and ethnicity (and gender) explains most things we see.
it's not that he's right!
i believe in a pluralistic truth
but.... i read him because well...
he fills the void out there...
his POV is missing in mainstream discourse.
its not that he's right, at all
it's just that there is so many angles to truth
i feel that we are closer to grasping that truth if we look at things from different angles.
one question i struggle with, is truth an absolute value?
does "truth" trump all?
is there danger to trutH?
and what is truth, really?
As I've said before, as long as Corporate America needs cheap labor streaming over the border(a need which will continue indefinitely), there'll be no wall nor military divisions stationed along that border, no matter who's in charge back in DC. So you might as stop dreaming about it.
It will cause you less stress to just accept that People Of Great Importance have decided to change the demographics of the nation. There's not much you can do about it.
Anyway, I wonder how many people that get up in arms over immigration actually have daily contact with Latinos?
I go to an NYC college and from dealing with them on a daily basis, I can honestly say that besides a slight accent, there's not much difference between Euros and Hispanics. On a personal level at least.
Le sigh...
India's horrific overpopulation is a "prized asset?" Maybe if you've lost all sense of smell.
Not very professional, Steve. This kind of thing will ensure that HBD never gains popularity outside backwater blogs.
Meanwhile we subsidize reproduction among our 'prized assets'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEq7loAuBKY
You realize that the whole 70s "Population Bomb" nonsense was another left-wing attack on the West, don't you?
Lefties hated population growth when Whites were the ones increasing, now that its Blacks/Browns - its: "What's the big whoop".
Well, if it gets too crowded here, we'll just move to Israel.
I go to an NYC college and from dealing with them on a daily basis, I can honestly say that besides a slight accent, there's not much difference between Euros and Hispanics.
LOL - no, you don't see much difference at your office when you exchange pleasantries with them in the hallways while you're passing to the bathroom and they're pushing the janitor cart. The well-mannered Latino border jumpers seem just like any other standard Euro-American... heck, maybe they're even interchangeable!!
Because, of course, America's greatness has never relied on its demographic composition, right?!! If boatloads of Mestizos and Africans had landed at Plymouth Rock they certainly would have built a similar nation to the one we have now, right?!!
The real difference will be seen with 2nd-generation Meztizo children - they won't come close to achieving average white educational levels and tax revenues will continue to drop in every state as you replace white baby boomers with low-income Latino anchor babies entering the workforce.
And I'm also seeing very little evidence showing that 2nd-generation Latino immigrants will continue to have the work ethic of their parents when it comes to unskilled jobs. Rather, I'm expecting them to behave a whole lot more like the black underclass in relation to work ethic, after being ruined by Hip-Hop, TV and American consumerism.
Another source of de facto support for cheap labor are the feminists (more women working outside the home means wages are driven down).
"Women work all over the place, as slaves. I saw women breaking rocks outside Delhi."
Good to know they're doing productive work that will significantly improve their economy and wealth. Your argument is flawless.
So the new paranoid paleoright meme is that capitalism is ruining the world, and somehow it's neoliberalism.
I guess the irony of replacing the bogeyman of neoconservatism with the bogeyman of neoliberalism is lost on these people.
Steve, your posts are great. Often I disagree with you and sometimes I think you're wayyyyyyyyyy off base and chasing a delusion down a rabbit hole. But the race realism and the hard numbers are refreshing in an age of magical thinking and innumeracy. Your commenters, though - man, in their own way, they're as stupid as the Kos Kids.
One thing I've noticed, which is not much commented on, is the unholy alliance between the libertarian right and the big government left.
I've come across several people online who argue for mass immigration into the US on the grounds that this will save Social Social Security. These people claim to be libertarians,and I think they believe it, and their argument is somewhat libertarianish.
But what it boils down to is that we have people arguing for government-run social engineering on a scale to make the Great Society green with envy, with the end goal of preserving Social Security.
And if you object to this, they call you a statist!
Not very professional, Steve. This kind of thing will ensure that HBD never gains popularity outside backwater blogs.
Because if there is one thing which "professionals" do, it is never to tell the truth if that truth may seem offensive to somebody, somewhere.
"...it's just that there is so many angles..."
Are you assuming the existence of only 49 angles? (or maybe 50 is the cut-off point from *is* to *are*?). And as far as "what is truth", I guess that you have already answered this yourself since you stated "...i believe in a pluralistic truth..." and, presumably, you know what you believe in.
Now don't forget just how bad the Christian Right (CR) is in encouraging third world overpopulation. Let's see:
Bush's massive Africa AIDS program was a project of his CR advisers.
The CR relentlessly raises money for third world food distributions.
The CR stops funding of birth control and abortion providers in Africa, which the old center left-consensus had been funding for a while.
The Catholic Church preaches birth control is a sin.
There are several evangelical denominations that were started and have their HQ in the USA but have many more members in the third world, creating dual loyalty issues.
The best way to reduce third world birthrates is free birth control, urbanization, and equalizing the economic and education status of women.
Already Tunisia, Algeria, and Iran have replacement fertility or below because of some of these trends. They are also dropping like a rock in SE Asia.
I predict this will soon happen in India too. There are aggressive affirmative action programs for women in backward rural areas.
Sex-selective abortion in India will also reduce population since all the excess males won't reproduce and probably not live as long. It will also let women have more choice in their partners as a shortage of them develops.
The abandonment of the overpopulation obsession was none too subtle. It happened right about the time we all realized that all of our population growth was happening amongst non-white, left-leaning immigrant groups. We don't have to assume that the left dumped ZPG as a cause once this was realized. We know it.
Utah is a good example. Back in the 90s the largest local newspaper, the Salt Lake Tribune, obsessed at least weekly about the Mormon fecundity that resulted in overcrowded schools. As soon as the cause shifted from educated, law-abiding, middle class, taxpaying Mormons to uneducated, illegal, lawbreaking immigrants, the Tribune stopped worrying so much.
Population size, of course, correlates directly with per capita wealth. That's why Norway and Switzerland are miserable places, and why everyone on the planet wants to move to India.
BTW, California alone has more immigrants (> 9 million) than all of India (< 6 million). Hell, New York City probably does, too.
Sylvia said...
"I go to an NYC college and from dealing with them on a daily basis, I can honestly say that besides a slight accent, there's not much difference between Euros and Hispanics. On a personal level at least."
I can name a few having grown up a white-minority in California's Central Valley.
Inordinate ethnic pride and solidarity (if they were white they'd be considered racist)
Very little interest in math/science
Third-world attitude toward the rule of law (e.g. whatever one can get away with, regardless of the effect on the greater system) compared to WASPs
Far more patriarchal and heterocentric (Muy Machismo) compared to the average Euro/Euro-American
The list is long but there's a few Sylvia...
Anyway, I wonder how many people that get up in arms over immigration actually have daily contact with Latinos?
Right here, Sylvia. I manage about 40 emloyees, and about 1/3rd of them are Hispanic (all of them legal, as a result of government requirements), and I occasionally even socialize with them.
And while I would not question the humanity of my Hispanic employees, I do know that bringing in millions more of them will not be beneficial to the future of this country.
It is entirely possible to separate the personal from the political, thank you very much.
I go to an NYC college and from dealing with them on a daily basis, I can honestly say that besides a slight accent, there's not much difference between Euros and Hispanics.
I love this attitude: "the Hispanics I see at my college are roughly on par with the whites I see."
Of ocurse they are - that's why they're all in the same college.
By the same token, my friend who's spent the last 20 years teaching at an elite university seems to think that blacks, Hispanics and Muslims are all just the same as whites - based on the students he sees at his elite university.
In scientific terms, your sample is not a random one.
Sex-selective abortion in India will also reduce population since all the excess males won't reproduce and probably not live as long. It will also let women have more choice in their partners as a shortage of them develops.
Yes, of course. And by the same token, women in polygamous communities/countries are the most free because they, too, are more competed over.
Your fallacy is to assume that the men who run the show will allow women to actually use this power.
"The best way to reduce third world birthrates is free birth control, urbanization, and equalizing the economic and education status of women"
Bob is right about this. As for left wing nervousness about addressing overpopulation concerns, I agree with that too. I wish that more liberals would address overpopulation concerns in the developing world and in the US. No one on the left or the right will address this and those that do are dismissed as kooks (see former CO Gov. Dick Lamm)
Hey, Troofball,
You're in Albuquerque?
with a demographic makeup like this:
The racial makeup of the city was 71.59% White, 3.09% Black or African American, 3.89% Native American, 2.24% Asian, 0.10% Pacific Islander, 14.78% from other races, and 4.31% Multiracial (from two or more races). 39.92% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
??!!
Why aren't you living in a town with a high percentage of your favorite ethnic group, like, say, Detroit?
Inordinate ethnic pride and solidarity (if they were white they'd be considered racist)
I can't say that the Hispanics I know are as ethnocentric as some people make them out to be. Outside of Puerto Rico day, I rarely hear them bring up their race. They're similar to Irish Americans i.e. one racially aware day, then just being normal American teenagers the other 364 days.
I don't know...
In scientific terms, your sample is not a random one.
That's why I added 'on a personal level.'
I'm just relaying what I see everyday.
I love this attitude: "the Hispanics I see at my college are roughly on par with the whites I see."
Of ocurse they are - that's why they're all in the same college.
Are these also the same ones that take Latino and African American studies and belong to MEChA and the black student associations?
"one question i struggle with, is truth an absolute value?
does "truth" trump all?
is there danger to trutH?
and what is truth, really?"
Well, while you're busy navel gazing, you mind if I go ahead and demand the gov't expel the invaders so my country doesn't get lost to my kids?
...And to say it once more....
Growth for its own sake is the ideology of a cancer cell. - Edward Abbey
I'd love to raise a rhetorical exclamation/question, especially in light of the article's mention of population, economy, and the role of women.
I wonder when some New England feminist of WASP origin is going stop unconditionally lacerating herself as part of her intellectual methodology, and for once indulge in a little ethnic pride that other groups can revel in, but ours can't, and recognize one of WASPdom's great contributions to the world in the last 300 years-feminism. Have feminists ever managed to admit, at least to themselves, if not at their "symposiums", that it is the anglo world where the theory and practice of feminism has taken root? It was the anglo-american dissenter sects (quakers, shakers, unitarians, etc) where where much of the early campaigns for women's rights took place (voting, property rights, birth control-just to throw in a little more about population issues)
I'm being ironic about the "take ethic pride" part, but I finally was able to articulate my feelings about academia's worn out WASP punching bag when a lesbian, feminist friend of my came back from France, having surveyed their indigenous and Arab populations, and said, "I learned to be proud of being from here, and being a woman from here."
An additional note, from Tocqueville: "When I am asked to what the Americans owe their success, I would not hesitate to say that it is the superiority of their women."
I am concerned about an influx of peoples who do not have basic feminist values, and with the dozens of hispanics I see everyday, I don't much of it, though it's not as acute as with some ethnic groups.
I'm just curious if there are any cracks in the "God, I despise my WASP privilege" facade up there in Cambridge.
I seem to recall Razib posting a map of the aquifer in India. It didn't look like a bright future for those who want to drink fresh water.
"The Catholic Church preaches birth control is a sin"
That's artificial birth control,NFP is ok.But, you're right.The Catholic Church lost all it's credibility with that decision in the 60's by Pope Paul VI.
Sylvia said..."Anyway, I wonder how many people that get up in arms over immigration actually have daily contact with Latinos?"
I don't now, for which I am thankful. When I did live in a multi-racial area, my daily contacts with Latinos was uniformly negative (unlike my daily contact with blacks or Asians).
Here in my small town, which from 1999-2008 had only 4 murders, we had 2 murders in 2009, both committed by an Hispanic illegal immigrant. The percentage of Hispanics in our population is 1.1%. So 100% of the murders in our town in 2009 were committed by 1.1% of the population. Additionally, a woman was raped by a Hispanic in the local Mexican restaurant, again. In our town, the average yearly number of rapes is 15; last year, 1 was committed by an Hispanic. So in our area anyway, as they've become more visible (and audible!) presences in our community, they've also become way over-represented in violent crime statistics.
And even if my contacts with Hispanics were frequent and mostly pleasant, I'd still be opposed to our current immigration policies. I'm just a housewife, college girl, but unlike you, I understand that the value of anecdotal evidence is primarily emotional. However much I might enjoy a foreign individual's company, I'm very wary of the cultural impact of non-Americans on my country.
Oh, and "Le sigh" is so twee that it makes my fillings ache.
Prized Asset:
Slaves.
Euros are a pain in the elite's ass.
They are smart enough to rebel effectively.
Japan's lack of youth is precisely why Japanese companies are uncompetitive on a global stage. If Japan could only get its fertility rate up to where Saudi Arabia or Yemen have it, then the Japanese could enjoy the same economic vibrancy as the Gulf Arabs states.
"The Catholic Church preaches birth control is a sin"
"That's artificial birth control,NFP is ok.But, you're right.The Catholic Church lost all it's credibility with that decision in the 60's by Pope Paul VI."
Yeah
It sure is a shame all those european catholics kept on breeding like crazy just like the pope said they should. Oh... wait.
How did a discussion about India's overpopulation turn into an argument over Latinos?
Lynn's IQ values for China and India can be taken with a grain of salt, especially since India is dominating China in terms of producing high tech professionals.
BAM!
The congruence between the diversity lobby and cheap labor lobby is indeed frightening.
The other day the FT noted that even with China's extraordinary growth rates, per-capita income for the latest figures is less than $3,000, compared to Japan being over 30,000. China passed Japan, but the average Chinese person has put up with massive pollution, crowding, labor abuses, and not gotten that much richer, most of the wealth accumulating in the pockets of connected "Red Princes."
India is more of the same, just "moreso."
'As its population threatens to turn from an asset into a burden...' Ashes to ashes, asset to asset ...
Bob -- Selective Sex abortion has led to disaster in China. The National Population and Family Planning Commission of China, in its own report, noted the vast increase in trafficking of women, abduction of women from North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, and other neighboring countries. Girls as young as nine are abducted and raised to be the brides of the sons of rural families.
Eventually this reaches a point where war breaks out. It happened with Strongbow, or Helen, or any number of occasions. Guys without women in great numbers don't "turn gay" they turn to trafficking in women, which is destabilizing and if engaged in too much amounts to defacto War against other neighbor countries. Mark Steyn's take is here.
Sociologist/Demographer Michael Hout's work stresses the dependency ratio[ (number of pre-work children + number of retirees)/total population] rather than number of old folks (i.e. past retirement age) as the key demographic factor in (per capita) economic growth. Specifically he traces the boom in Ireland to a declining dependency ration during the fairly rapid transition from high to much lower fertility rates. In essence. Unfortunately our journalists and libertarian/club for growth type folks don't seem to get it -- a child almost as much of a drain on the society as an old person, indeed both cause about 18 years of 'free ride' on the workers. And looking at the cost of raising the child as 'an investment' doesn't really work as most people don't really contribute that much more to government programs than they take away.
"A "young, vast workforce"
Dishonest, blatant, relentless propaganda promoting ethnic dispossession and cultural extinction. Promoting unlimited mass immigration is promoting slow genocide.
"It would be progress to come up with a good name for the alliance between corporations and multiculturalists."
Anti-nationalists.
The end result of both leads to destroying all the nations of the earth as distinct nations thereby reducing any effective opposition to internationalist ruling elites.
The only conflict is over whether the final outcome should be a monster-state hell ruled by marxists or a no-state hell ruled by globalist billionaires.
"Now don't forget just how bad the Christian Right (CR) is in encouraging third world overpopulation. Let's see:"
Decades of relentless anti-white bullying by the media does that to people.
"The best way to reduce third world birthrates is free birth control, urbanization, and equalizing the economic and education status of women"
That will work with some populations but with others it will work exactly as well as it does on the equivalent populations in the west i.e it won't.
Curvaceous, I've always wondered about Rubenesque WNs. How do they deal with strange scenario of being bottom of the White dating market but top of the black one? Even the name Curvaceous sounds like something you'd hear on sassy black sitcom along with choruses of 'you go gurlfran.'
Jason Malloy debunked the "bare branches" theory Whiskey has been harping on. The greek myths were myths, you know.
By the way, India also has huge amounts of sex-selective abortions. It has an even higher sex-ratio than China.
"It would be progress to come up with a good name for the alliance between corporations and multiculturalists."
Population Replacers.
With this frame in mind:
1917-1991: Communism
1933-1945: Nazism
1950- ? Population Replacement
whats up with all the negative
india articles in the new york times of late? generally the left/liberals hate india, especially after Bush cozied up to them during his term.
indian americans need to do something about this!
"They're similar to Irish Americans i.e. one racially aware day, then just being normal American teenagers the other 364 days."
Nope, speaking as someone who's half Irish-American (roughly) we're actually pretty consumed with it much of the year (almost to an embarrassing extent). It comes up in family conversations quite often. My grandmother's house is pretty much totally decked out in with Irish themed knick-knacks. Maybe we're just an obsessive family however.
Anyway, based on my interaction with Latinos, they are also pretty racially obsessed too.
"I love this attitude: "the Hispanics I see at my college are roughly on par with the whites I see."
This is because most hispanics in college are not the heavily indigenous/mestizo folks entering this country illegally and working under the table (Despite that they shouldn't be here, I'll admit I don't have too many complaints against them, but then again I don't live in a border state, and let's just say certain other locals make them look good in comparison....)
Most "hispanics" in college however are descended from the conquistadors or various southern European immigrant groups. Most of the "hispanics" you come into contact with are probably just (mostly) Mediterranean whites.
"Sylvia said...
It will cause you less stress to just accept that People Of Great Importance have decided to change the demographics of the nation. There's not much you can do about it."
Perhaps we hoi polloi could cause those PGIs some stress.
"Anyway, I wonder how many people that get up in arms over immigration actually have daily contact with Latinos?"
Other than the odd waiter in a mexican restaurant, almost none. My wife however worked in a hospital that was being driven into bankruptcy by illegal aliens (this in the southeast, too). In any given month, a majority of births are the children of illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are now showing up on local sherriffs department's wanted lists, and in large numbers - and this is in the heart of Dixie.
As well behaved as those mexican waiters are, I don't see it as a good deal for me or my kind, to open up the floodgates to millions of their countrymen.
"Curvaceous, etc. said...
"it's just ugly to refer to human-beings in dehumanizing terms: overpopulation is one'
Oh, yeah. When the lefties were guilt-tripping us White teenaged girls in the '70s, overpopulation (if WE caused it, that is) was a bad, bad, naughty, naughty, sinful, sinful, Planet-Earth-harming thing.
Beings as us White girls in the '70s and '80s bought the baloney and tried to do the "right thing" and control ourselves, now overpopulation (when non-Whites do it) is "dehumanizing."
Why wasn't it "dehumanizing" when we White girls were the target of the demoralizing? Hmmmmmmm????"
You've cottoned on to an important truth. We were conned. All that stuff about overpopulation directed at first-worlders in the 60s and 70s was a load of swill, designed only to handicap us in the war of demographics. Our population (both as to quality and quantity) was just fine in 1970.
"omnipresent alliance between the diversity lobby and the cheap labor lobby."
One of the few places on the web where this truth is spoken/written.
How about the business/environmentalist alliance in the get rich through carbon market scheme.
"Nope, speaking as someone who's half Irish-American (roughly) we're actually pretty consumed with it much of the year (almost to an embarrassing extent). It comes up in family conversations quite often. My grandmother's house is pretty much totally decked out in with Irish themed knick-knacks. Maybe we're just an obsessive family however."
Um, no. I'm from NYC, and I can tell you the Irish are very much into being Irish. And, ask anyone who's ever been to Boston.
cryofan also made a very good statement:
"And if the Dems are in control, the diversity/cheap labor machine is a go, and the aspects of fakeLeftism that distract from populist economics issues are in focus: i.e., gay rights, enviro-worship, anti-religion, hillbilly-hating, rise to the fore."
Excepting the silly use of Dems, the point is spot on.
I think all of us here understand the elite's 'wedge issues' strategy, yes?
It is very simple of course - distraction of the politically involved masses who are not stupid enough to be mesmerized by jersey shore and the like on the idiot tube.
And please stop the Dems/Reps silliness now.
The Republicans talk a big game, but other than wedge issues don't do anything tangible to improve this country.
A lot is done for the big business and FIRE players, of course (should Steve-o or myself again post links to the famous 'W' speech about how it is a RIGHT of every American to buy a house?).
Same with the Democrats - other than fiercely contested wedge issues (oooooo gay marriage! ten commandments on government buildings! ooooh wooow, crucial geopolitical issues there), they march in lockstep with the other side.
After all, they are ALL PAID by the same people - how could it be otherwise?
"Dishonest, blatant, relentless propaganda promoting ethnic dispossession and cultural extinction. Promoting unlimited mass immigration is promoting slow genocide."
Baloney.
You can't rape the willing.
Americans birth controlled themselves to death.
"Sylvia said...
It will cause you less stress to just accept that People Of Great Importance have decided to change the demographics of the nation. There's not much you can do about it."
"Mr. Anon. said...
Perhaps we hoi polloi could cause those PGIs some stress."
Ah yes, I just love how the urbane young female college student Sylvia is so confident in the ability of her vaunted 'People of Great Importance' to push through social and demographic change on a whim without any repercussions for their security.
Reminds me of a scene from the movie classic Doctor Zhivago. At the start of the 1917 Revolution, a column of beaten Russian soldiers desert the front after their unit was decimated by the Germans. They encounter a column of fresh-faced replacements being marched to the front, commanded by a group of arrogant, aristocractic officers (some of the PGIs of Imperial Russia). One of the officers, a good-looking and clean-cut fellow who probably studied at an elite Russian university, decides to convince the deserters to turn back and continue fighting the Germans, despite the complete idiocy of the idea in the face of general military, political and social collapse.
So the young officer gets up on a water barrel, and he gives off a grand speech about duty and valor. He tells the soldiers that if they don't continue to sacrifice their lives for the greater good of the Imperial order, the horrible German Huns will come and burn their homes, rape their women, and kill their children. The fact that it was the Imperial Russian government that decided to engage in a war with the Germans that they were totally unprepared for is conviently left out. Oh, the young officer gets really fired up, talking down to those ignorant peasants like the fine PGI he is... until he slips on the barrel. He falls in, totally drenched and looking like quite the fool. Everyone laughs for a few seconds, until a stoney-faced soldier shoots the officer with his rifle, the water leaking out of the barrel turning crimson. Everyone, officer and enlisted man, veteran and recruit, all stand in shock... for about five seconds. At that point, the enlisted men from both units go nuts and kill every officer present except for Zhivago, smashing in the head of an effete, fat, red-faced colonel with their rifle butts and giving off a triumphant cheer. The assembled soldiers then loot the corpses with little fanfare and go on with their lives, heading back to their homes.
But surely nothing that dramatic could ever happen in the U.S.A? Right? ...Right?
Am I right, guys?
I can't say that the Hispanics I know are as ethnocentric as some people make them out to be. Outside of Puerto Rico day, I rarely hear them bring up their race. They're similar to Irish Americans i.e. one racially aware day, then just being normal American teenagers the other 364 days.
I don't know...
Easy way to find out. Disparage "la Raza" and see how they react. Typical American whites will join in if you disparage their race, so if the Mexicans object, you have your answer.
Or maybe you can just compare your willingness to disparage either to their faces, and acknowledge the answer you already know to be true?
"Why aren't you living in a town with a high percentage of your favorite ethnic group, like, say, Detroit?"
Because my mother hasn't chosen to live her golden years in Detroit.
Baloney.
You can't rape the willing.
Americans birth controlled themselves to death.
Indeed. Little old ladies who sign their life savings over to confidence men just want to experience destitution before they die.
Americans birth controlled themselves to death.
In the Blue States.
But out here in flyover country, Ol' Whitey is still gettin' it on.
T: Because my mother hasn't chosen to live her golden years in Detroit.
Gee, I wonder why not.
"In a slow-growth of capital world, (land and coast endowment, for example, is fixed) the pie is not growing fast enough, so less kids = more inheritance per kid. No need for primogeniture when couples all seem to voluntarily have one child and concentrate wealth of dozens in their great-grandchildren."
Which is why they call their only children "little Emperors", and why those kids are greedy and self-centered. Really, economists and other utopians have no idea what changes their social engineering will produce.
"So the new paranoid paleoright meme is that capitalism is ruining the world, and somehow it's neoliberalism."
Capitalism and neoliberalism are both aspects/parts of the same thing, you ignorant f_ckwit!
Do you even understand what the word "liberalism" actually means? It sure as hell ain't anti-capitalist.
anon: "yeah, that's the think about a racial/ethnic reductionist sociologist such as yourself--you prize seeing people in patterns and statistics."
"lost is the lone individual."
We cannot create laws of general applicability and treat everyone as a Lone Individual. If we DID treat everyone individually and not with laws of general applicability, it would be called "discrimination".
But maybe you are a nice, safe NAM and wish folks would treat you different than other NAMs.
I know what you mean.
I wish college girls would not cross the streets on dark nights to avoid walking past me on the sidewalk simply because I am a man.
I don't blame them for their "anti-male reductionism", though. As a father of daughters, I find it completely reasonable. Do you?
'Progressives' on population and the environment: It's a huge and urgent problem. Best prescription: Educate people and empower women. (I.e.: There's no rush.)
Severn, I think most liberals have dropped the "Mexicans-will-pay-for-our-Social-Security" meme. I see a few ignorant folks that still trot it out, but growing intimate contact with Mestizos and their dependence on welfare and social services has made that story too hard to sustain.
Likewise the "Mexicans-do-jobs-Americans-won't-do" meme has been dropped now that it's obvious Americans will do any job.
Expect more meme transformations and evolutions.
For those curious about the smell Steve refers to, this Google search on "open defecation" will give you some awareness of the problem.
But it shouldn't be that surprising when you consider that there are Indian castes whose primary function is scooping up people poop off the ground and out of buckets by hand.
For those curious about the smell Steve refers to, this Google search on "open defecation" will give you some awareness of the problem.
But it shouldn't be that surprising when you consider that there are Indian castes whose primary function is scooping up people poop off the ground and out of buckets by hand.
"Because my mother hasn't chosen to live her golden years in Detroit."
You still live with your mother?
And why not Atlanta, if it's warm weather she and you want?
Don't be mislead by the statement that Indian women don't have jobs. Due to their inability to afford labor-saving devices, they work very hard in the home. Also, in the country-side, the women work the fields.
Sylvia said...
"I go to an NYC college and from dealing with them on a daily basis, I can honestly say that besides a slight accent, there's not much difference between Euros and Hispanics. On a personal level at least."
Of course you are correct, Sylvia. I am sure if I met Hispanics at Caltech they would be extremely bright and mathematically gifted, and if I met them at a neurosurgeon's convention they would knock my socks off.
This selection bias is a major source of college multi-culturalism: white kids who are of average disposition and work ethic in their own community somehow assuming the same is true of the NAM community based on the perceived attitudes and characteristics of the NAM students alongside them.
At Harvard it is even worse because their blacks and Hispanics are drawn largely from the cognitive elite of their foreign societies. They are children of the very, very smart, smooth, and ruthless families that have risen to the top.
They are well spoken, well traveled, and, if my Big Ten and Harvard experiences are any measure, very careful about what they share with the liberal white American kids.
I remember a Bolivian LLM student, reasonably cute, who, after some flirtation, empathy-building exercises and drinks, told me how her family disciplined their servants.
In the USA, she and her family would have gotten years in prison, yet her clothing, travel, vacations, consumer and elite brand name values enabled her to chitter-chat and relate to the uber-liberal white American females quite easily. The kiddies had no idea.
One of the few times Americans see it is when they get caught abusing the house slaves they smuggle into the USA.
Selection bias and dissimulation are major factors, Sylvia.
I've always wondered about Rubenesque WNs. How do they deal with strange scenario of being bottom of the White dating market but top of the black one?
That topic has been raised on Stormfront in the past. A pretty funny read:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=481429
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t139717/
Quantity over quality - the 3rd world stratagem.
"All that stuff about overpopulation directed at first-worlders in the 60s and 70s was a load of swill"
It was written TO first-worlders, but mostly ABOUT third-worlders (I read it at the time and got the message "the third world MUST go through its demographic transition SOON"). The self-hating part came later.
"Americans birth controlled themselves to death."
No, Americans Social(ist in)Securitied themselves to death. Congress socialized the benefits of having children while the costs remained private. People reacted rationally to the incentives.
Cynical
"How did a discussion about India's overpopulation turn into an argument over Latinos?
Lynn's IQ values for China and India can be taken with a grain of salt, especially since India is dominating China in terms of producing high tech professionals."
Hmmm, lunch break in Bangalore? Please explain this year's final rankings for the annual ACM international collegiate programming contest:
http://cm.baylor.edu/ICPCWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Results%20World%20Finals%202010
China won this year and is a consistent top five contender; India's vaunted IIT finished 66th a few years back, as I last recall.
But I'm sure India's high-tech pros have better things to do than fool around with this computer fad.
India's horrific overpopulation is a "prized asset?" Maybe if you've lost all sense of smell.
I think the smell has more to do with your preference for Teutonic cleanliness than overpopulation.
Was - was that a straight answer from T? Gotta be one of the signs of the Apocalypse.
"ACM international collegiate programming contest"
Right, everbody participates in the ACM and therefore it is a reflection of who's the smartest. It's got nothing to do with anything else.
If China were higher IQ than India, it'd be dominating the outsourcing trend. Enough said.
White middle class americans ought to spend more time worrying about the growth of the federal debt and the size of the household debt and spend less time about population growth in Asia. The emerging economies of Asia and latin America have healthier balance sheets than the developed economies US, Europe and Japan.
"You still live with your mother?"
I never said that I lived with my mother. I've been on my own since I was 17, I said that I lived in the same city as my mother. It's not a large city, Hun, but there are more than two houses here.
"And why not Atlanta, if it's warm weather she and you want?"
Well, sensing you warm and heartfelt concern for my condition, I'll tell you. My mother has lived in New Mexico since 1982. I lived in Los Angeles until 2004. She got old, I returned. Fast forward she got married (he's white, because I don't want you to have a sleepless night) and there really is no reason for me to be here other than the fact that my home is underwater like half of America.
The difference, CCLF, between me and so many other people who shall remain nameless, is that I don't spend my life whining about what I don't have. I enjoy it, no matter where it is.
. "How do they deal with strange scenario of being bottom of the White dating market but top of the black one? Even the name Curvaceous sounds like something you'd hear on sassy black sitcom along with choruses of 'you go gurlfran."
I wouldn't know. I've never been involved in the black dating market.
I'm blond, 5' 8" and 132 lbs., married to a blonde man 6'.
I just liked "curvaceous" because it's alliterative and sort-of rhymey with "carbon-based" and indicates I'm a woman. And I *do* have nice curves, if I do say so myself.
"Our population (both as to quality and quantity) was just fine in 1970.
Yup.
"I don't spend my life whining about what I don't have. I enjoy it, no matter where it is."
You spend plenty of time on isteve whining about what you don't have here -- the diffidence from White people towards Black men that you feel so entitled to.
*I* do my griping about what my CHILDREN won't have -- a nation.
I *like* my life. I fled So-Cal for cowboy country because I could not stand the demographic change I was watching in real time in San Diego. So I moved TO the people I like so much.
YOU, however, chose your living area far AWAY from the masses of people you claim to be so fond of. (I can hear it now. "...but, but, but, you see, it's because my mom NEEDS me, even though she's married. It's not like I'm a momma's boy or something.")
Even more hysterically, YOUR MOM picked a mate not Black.
Hmmmm.
Quite telling. (Much more productive to listen not to what people say, but watch what they do.)
"Right, everbody participates in the ACM and therefore it is a reflection of who's the smartest. It's got nothing to do with anything else.
If China were higher IQ than India, it'd be dominating the outsourcing trend. Enough said."
The BPO outsourcing trend in America is driven by both leming like behavior, "Every other company is doing it, why don't we?" and that the Indians speak better English as a result of historical and cultural factors. The Chinese speak crap English and they always will, just look at how poor English language proficiency is in de facto American protectorates of Japan and South Korea despite decades spent trying to learn. The rare Chinese with conversant level of skill in English has much better opportunities and broader capabilities rather than answering disgruntled customers why their credit card bills are so large.
The Europeans outsource to their neighbors to the east while Japan to it's west.
Have you ever heard an Indian speaking German or Japanese?
"If China were higher IQ than India, it'd be dominating the outsourcing trend."
Let's talk when India dominates
China in building toilets
If China were higher IQ than India, it'd be dominating the outsourcing trend. Enough said.
Heh, an actual biological determinist. And a Desi, what a coincidence.
English is more or less a first language in India, right?
Truth, you sound alright but if you're so well-adjusted why do you spend so much time commenting here?
3rd Plt,
4th Rgt,
12th Div,
6th CyberWarfare Army Group
We lot IT guy. You see. Fight war. We ruck your country good. Nothing work. Ha Ha.
India suck too. We ruck their country after just for fun.
"Truth, you sound alright but if you're so well-adjusted why do you spend so much time commenting here?"
The same reason a white crackhead goes to Compton at midnight.
"You spend plenty of time on isteve whining about what you don't have here -- the diffidence from White people towards Black men that you feel so entitled to."
Curvaceous; with all possible respect, there's a great book that you, and Mr. Anon should both read. It's required for many liberal arts majors (or at least used to be). It's titled "how to read a book" by Mortimer Adler. I think it would be a great help going forward with your life.
"It's not like I'm a momma's boy or something."
I am a momma's boy, always have been.
"Even more hysterically, YOUR MOM picked a mate not Black."
I don't know what's hysterical about it, he's a nice guy, treats her like gold and can stand being around her 7 days a week which would make me insane. Besides, I think it's quite difficult for a 64 year-old woman to get married.
"I fled So-Cal for cowboy country because I could not stand the demographic change I was watching in real time in San Diego."
And I'm happy for you. But the thing you don't understand is that I SIMPLY DON'T MAKE ALL OF MY LIFE CHOICES BASED UPON WHAT COLOR MY NEIGHBORS ARE. I could live in Atlanta, Montana, Montreal or Ghana and have a good time.
You make your life choices that way, wonderful, you're an American and godspeed, but is it really necessary to project your life choices onto me? I'm sure that you are a wonderful young woman sweetie, but I kinda enjoy the life that I have earned, and I'm not looking to trade right now.
"Please explain this year's final rankings for the annual ACM international collegiate programming contest:
http://cm.baylor.edu/ICPCWiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Results%20World%20Finals%202010"
And please explain the *MUCH* more elite results of the ACM doctoral dissertation awards.
http://awards.acm.org/doctoral_dissertation/
And the Godel prize:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del_Prize
And while you're at it, do look up the researchers at Microsoft Research and IBM research:
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/dp/pe/people.aspx#p=1&ps=36&so=1&sb=ln&fr=&to=&fd=&td=&rt=&f=&a=&pn=&pa=&pd=
https://researcher.ibm.com/researcher/view_researchers.php?ex=y
Oh, and 2 of the 4 Google Fellows are Indian.
Finally, here's a list of papers accepted at FOCS 2010, the most elite conference for CS:
http://theory.stanford.edu/focs2010/accepted.html
Can't be smart - didn't nail the ACM programming contest, right?
Writing code is not equal to doing original research, and the Chinese seem to be doing much better at the former than the latter.
"I SIMPLY DON'T MAKE ALL OF MY LIFE CHOICES BASED UPON WHAT COLOR MY NEIGHBORS ARE. I could live in Atlanta, Montana, Montreal or Ghana and have a good time."
suuuuuurrrrre.
When you move to Ghana or Atlanta, let us know all about the good time you're having.
"Besides, I think it's quite difficult for a 64 year-old woman to get married."
I'd say the truth is more along the lines, it's difficult for a (64 y.o.) *Black* woman to get married.
In my small city, there are several wedding announcements among the (White) seniors each week.
Dang me and my lying eyes that would contradict anything "Truth" says.
"but I kinda enjoy the life that I have earned"
Life you earned.
To include uni, paid for by my people's tax dollars funding your AA scholarship, and a no-down mortgage bought in the Sand State bubble, currently and for the foreseeable future underwater, for which I'll be taxed to mop up the mess for, pretty much, ever.
Truth,
I am happy for you and your Mom, even if you're a Brooklyn Tech grad ;)
TGGP is right though. Considering the company around here...why do you post on here if you are so well adjusted. I mean like is supposed to attract like right? haha
just look at how poor English language proficiency is in de facto American protectorates of Japan and South Korea despite decades spent trying to learn
Despite decades institutionally abusing children out of the ability to learn much of anything, you mean? Those poor kids. They never get to play.
"When you move to Ghana or Atlanta, let us know all about the good time you're having."
Well, my father's a Ghanian immigrant, i've been there, and I've worked / vacationed in Atlanta 3 summers in a row, I don't need to move to these places, I already know I would have a good time anywhere. That's the difference between us, Sportette, people like me.
"In my small city, there are several wedding announcements among the (White) seniors each week."
Yeah, OK. supermarket baggers become winning SuperBowl QBs sometimes also, but you don't see scouts scouring the produce isles, now do you.
"Life you earned.
To include uni, paid for by my people's tax dollars funding your AA scholarship,"
I have no idea what "uni" is, must be some SWiPpLe thing; but I have paid taxes since I was 15, and have never received any scholarship, so, you fail.
"and a no-down mortgage..."
Wrong; FHA conventional 3% down, fixed rate first-time homebuyer's program.
"bought in the Sand State bubble..."
Wrong; New Mexico is not considered a "sand state", we did not have a real bubble just a slight decrease in prices since the peak in 2007.
"for which I'll be taxed to mop up the mess for, pretty much, ever."
You should have thought about that when you kept voting for these idiots you love so much.
Keep swinging at the pitches hun, eventually, I promise, you'll make contact.
"why do you post on here if you are so well adjusted. I mean like is supposed to attract like right? haha"
Yep, POC, it's a sad state of affairs.
I'm not "Sportette." That's Kylie.
"You should have thought about that when you kept voting for these idiots you love so much."
Eh, wot?
I'm a Tom Tancredo donor. I'm no fan of the the neocon-infested bankster-buggered Republican Party. I assure you, I vote 3rd-party frequently. Ron Paul would have never signed the bailouts. THAT's why the Repuglicans wouldn't let him in the debates.
It ain't ME swinging at air, here, Troofball.
"we did not have a real bubble just a slight decrease in prices since the peak in 2007".
Baloney. It's down 16%. Since 15% is considered a crash, you definately had a bubble going there.
"The average sales price of a home has fallen nearly $42,000 or 16% since it peaked in July 2007 at $261,699."
http://realtytimes.com/rtmcrcond/New_Mexico~Albuquerque~keithmacrae
But if you bought prior to 2005 and actually DID put 3% down, you shouldn't be that far underwater. Unless you haven't been making your payments -- or you took out lots of home-equity loan money (to buy spinners?)
Me, being smart, and ethical, and true to what I say I believe, and a fair market-timer at that, if I do say so myself, as well as grounded in good, old-fashioned '50s-type virtues like not buying if I can't make the payments, MY house is very nearly paid off.
I live in WY, where home prices have remained stable at very nearly the peak in 2009.
Why did we Wyomingites not get bit in the shorts in the Minority Mortgage Meltdown?
Because (a) being White people, we tend towards being reliable. And so people here only buy what they can afford, so people make their payments. No vast supply of empty houses in foreclosure.
(b) Not ever having been infested with minorities' grime and crime, old established neighborhoods are still goodies for the entry-level market
(c) Since, recession or no, people need energy, there's lots of high-paying (dangerous) blue collar jobs -- filled by White people, which knocks down the jobs-Americans-won't-do hooey -- in the oil patch.
Okay, Troofball, you owe me a new keyboard -- Your daddy's a Ghanian immigrant?!
Why, even your daddy, by voting with his feet, showed he prefers White people to Blacks.
"Eh, wot?
I'm a Tom Tancredo donor."
You gave your money to a typical manufactured opposition Globalist shill. A man with so much backbone that he spoke fervently in favor of the Vietnam war...while simultaneously applying for deferments. He taught high school for a few years, then ran for office and has NEVER run a business or held a private sector job.
Eh, that's wot.
"Me, being smart, and ethical, and true to what I say I believe, and a fair market-timer at that, if I do say so myself, as well as grounded in good, old-fashioned '50s-type virtues like not buying if I can't make the payments."
You might want to ice your shoulder down after all of that back-patting.
"But if you bought prior to 2005 and actually DID put 3% down, you shouldn't be that far underwater."
I bought in October of 2007, and I am not "that far" underwater, I simply will probably be unable to find a buyer who will allow me to walk away from my mortage free and clear. That, to me, is underwater enough.
"Because (a) being White people, we tend towards being reliable."
I understand there are a few white people in Iceland; I guess they're all flashy big spenders, huh?
"(b) Not ever having been infested with minorities' grime and crime, old established neighborhoods are still goodies for the entry-level market"
There are less people in the STATE of WY then there are in my home CITY. And I don't live in a large city. There was no bubble because no one is interested in moving there, so very little new housing was built, Adam Smith.
"Your daddy's a Ghanian immigrant?!
Why, even your daddy, by voting with his feet,"
And so did every other US Citizen who is not of Native American heritage.
The country your ancestors came from had a lot less blacks then this one, I guess they loved blacks?
"There are less people in the STATE of WY then there are in my home CITY"
Why do you tell untruths in the age of Wikipedia? Your credibility is shaky enough.
Population growth in WY the past decade has been a healthy 10%. Of almost completely White people -- who pay their mortgages.
We didn't have a housing bubble because we have open space to build AND because the mestizo invaders (none of whom can pay their $1500 -$2500/ mo. mortgages) haven't made it this far north in the kind of gobsmacking numbers as the southern tier.
Back-patting: About time some of us did. Whites, who build countries non-Whites will risk life and limb to get into, have lately taken entirely too much guff from ungrateful non-Whites.
"The country your ancestors came from had a lot less blacks then this one, I guess they loved blacks?"
Nah. Over the centuries they landed in Pennsylvania, Montana, Alberta, Nebraska and Wyoming. Too few Blacks to cause anything more than occasional startled comments, "Hey, there's one!"
It didn't occur to me to be explicitly pro-White until I lived in San Diego and got a dose of reality.
Like a fish in water, "White" was taken for granted growing up. Now that we're on the verge of losing it, many of us are beginning to realize its value.
"Your daddy's a Ghanian immigrant?!
Why, even your daddy, by voting with his feet,
And so did every other US Citizen who is not of Native American heritage."
The above is not the trump card you think it is. My ancestors were Europeans moving to a country being created, built, largely populated, and most certainly run, by their own distant cousins, people of European ancestry.
Unlike you and yours, I can talk up my ethny while choosing to live with Whites without hypocrisy.
"He taught high school for a few years"
Shrug. You get a healthy dose of race-realism teaching junior high school in mestizo-buggered Denver.
"Why do you tell untruths in the age of Wikipedia? Your credibility is shaky enough."
I don't know about untruths, but I know how to read.
Metropolitan ABQ has 857,000 people;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albuquerque_metropolitan_area
Wyoming has 544,000 people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming
And the growth rate is 5.4% not 10.
"Back-patting: About time some of us did"
I don't see anything wrong with back patting, but paying your mortgage is not exactly splitting the atom, now is it?
"Nah. Over the centuries they landed in Pennsylvania, Montana, Alberta, Nebraska and Wyoming"
Lots of people in those places, outside of Philadelphia, huh?
Yeah, they've also landed in New York, Miami, Atlanta, Memphis, etc. and yeah, there were around plenty of minorities.
They also landed in San Diego, like a few whiny white people I know.
"It didn't occur to me to be explicitly pro-White until I lived in San Diego and got a dose of reality."
Great, I'm proud of you.
" My ancestors were Europeans moving to a country being created, built, largely populated, and most certainly run, by their own distant cousins, people of European ancestry."
And those "people of European ancestry" so graciously invited my mothers side of the family to do "the work white people woudn't do."
"Unlike you and yours, I can talk up my ethny while choosing to live with Whites without hypocrisy."
I don't talk up my ethny I talk truth. I don't take credit for anyone's successes, and I don't take blame for anyone's failures.
Before both sides of my family came here, someone invited them to join this multiracial, ethnic, and religious nation. Why? because on both sides they thought that the country would be better of with them then without them. Just as your ancestors; You've just had the red pill, Neo, it's really as simple to explain than that.
"but paying your mortgage is not exactly splitting the atom, now is it"
So what earth-shattering accomplishment have YOU produced?
My kids are my accomplishment. My son, being gifted in science, may very well do something along those lines -- provided I can find a way to scrape together the massive funds needed to college-educate him to his abilities, since full -ride scholarships for White boys are rarer than hens' teeth.
You bought in 0ct 2007. I've heard lots of talk in market-timing chatrooms about people who buy the exact top, but I've never actually encountered one before.
You're like the perfect contrary indicator.
When you sell your house at a loss in a panic and buy your first gold coin, DO post about it, 'kay? Then I'll know it's time to sell my stack. Thanks, luvvie.
Oh, sure, if you're going to fudge now and include "metropolitan" ABQ, instead of ABQ city limits. If you get to fudge, I guess I can count Denver metro area, then, since so much of our population has gone there to attend school and stayed.
"graciously invited my mothers side of the family to do "the work white people woudn't do."
No direct ancestors of mine did so.
My ancestors broke prairie sod, with the sweat of their own brow, with the help of their own kids and their own horses.
So, shrug.
"someone invited them'
Not me.
Hey, here's an idea! I'll invite some homeless people to move into your house. You'd like that.
Nope, it's 10% this past decade, just as I said, straight outta wikipedia:
2000 493,782
Est. 2009[1] 544,270 10.2%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming#Demographics
"I don't take blame for anyone's failures." No, YOU don't take the blame for your ethny's failures to pay their mortgages, and you also don't put the blame ON your ethny, where it belongs. YOU blame "predatory lenders."
(Note: NO ONE held a gun to anyone's head to force them to sign that agreement to pay.
And don't even start with the shuck-and-jive about "pooorrr Blacks didn't know what they was getting into, because racist Whitey don't teach us nuthin'." If after 60+ years of sitting in White schools and trillions of White taxpayer dollars spent trying to help them, Blacks on the whole STILL can't read and understand a contract, then it's time to admit it. They as a race are not *ever* going to be capable of independent living in technologically complex America.
Basically, your race needs legal guardians. Don't look to me, though. I've put down my White Woman's Burden.)
"I don't take blame for anyone's failures."
That's for sure, including your own failure to do your due diligence so as to understand that home prices were in a bubble and Oct. 2007 was NOT the time to buy. Instead you like to shrug as if it was all just an Act of God, like a tidal wave.
No. If you really are as smart as you claim, there were *plenty* of websites in 2007, and earlier, elucidating very clearly that home prices were too high. You should have accessed them.
Now you're stuck. It does all make for a handy excuse, though, when I point out your hypocrisy of living WITH White folks while championing Blacks.
Steve seems to be a pretty laissez le bon temps rouler kind of fellow when it comes to arguments between posters, but in respect for the fact that it's his blog, and I'm not sure how much farther he is okay with me going, I'm going to stop with this topic for now.
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