Robert Draper writes a long article in the New York Times called "Can the Republicans Be Saved from Obsolescence?" that mostly consists of younger GOP operatives like Patrick Ruffini explaining how they aren't to blame for the Romney Campaign and how they would have been awesome if anybody had hired them, what with their digital wizardry and all.
I presume there's a good story out there somewhere about the Romney campaign and its multitudinous consultants that would involve the terms "conflict of interest" and "financial malfeasance," but this isn't it.
However, when you finally get to p. 8, there's an interview with David Plouffe, manager of the 2008 Obama campaign and who just retired from being Senior Adviser to the President to go make money. Plouffe, who has just about the best track record in American politics of knowing what he's talking about when it comes to winning elections, points out that everything you've read since the election is wrong:
But, I asked Plouffe, wasn’t the G.O.P. just one postmodern presidential candidate — say, a Senator Marco Rubio — away from getting back into the game?
Pouncing, he replied: “Let me tell you something. The Hispanic voters in Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico don’t give a damn about Marco Rubio, the Tea Party Cuban-American from Florida. You know what? We won the Cuban vote! And it’s because younger Cubans are behaving differently than their parents. It’s probably my favorite stat of the whole campaign. So this notion that Marco Rubio is going to heal their problems — it’s not even sophomoric; it’s juvenile! And by the way: the bigger problem they’ve got with Latinos isn’t immigration. It’s their economic policies and health care. The group that supported the president’s health care bill the most? Latinos.”
All this Rubio / "path to citizenship" talk, it's just a Democratic honey trap to lure Republicans in to their destruction. Ask Plouffe.
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This - And by the way: the bigger problem they’ve got with Latinos isn’t immigration. It’s their economic policies and health care is an important point. In fact, a lot of Latinos in the US now would be probably be perfectly happy to "pull up the ladders" and keep new immigrants out. Why would they want the competition? It's just the activists and self-appointed ethnic leaders want to increase their power base. A GOP that was more Tory conservative than libertarian - that is, willing to provide health care, a decent living wage for the lower classes, and more protection for local industry but harsh on immigration and strongly for Christian values - would probably have a far better chance of wooing Latinos than the current configuration.
"All this Rubio / "path to citizenship" talk, it's just a Democratic honey trap to lure Republicans in to their destruction. Ask Plouffe."
GOP is in damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
I say kill it. Then we all join the dems and subvert it from within.
Democratic contradictions are held together only by the common enemy. Once the enemy is gone, the contradictions will be like US and USSR cracking up after WWII. It will be like China, Vietnam, and Cambodia fighting after Americans withdrew.
"The Hispanic voters in Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico don’t give a damn about Marco Rubio, the Tea Party Cuban-American from Florida."
One might hope that after this whole Marco Rubio gambit inevitably and spectacularly fails, the GOP establishment will reconsider its haste to pander to the Latino vote. Unfortunately, more likely, the GOP will double-down on its efforts, and conclude that Rubio wasn't Latino enough.
Steve's George P. Bush predictions are looking more and more prescient by the day.
Heather Mac Donald
California’s Demographic Revolution
If the upward mobility of the impending Hispanic majority doesn’t improve, the state’s economic future is in peril.
http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_1_california-demographics.html
Thanks a lot, David Plouffe.
Conservatism will go into decline with more Latinos, but the Republican Party will do just fine. Liberal states have always been fine electing moderate Republicans. Hispanic population growth just means more liberal states. It has been adapting to changes in American attitudes and demographics since 1856.
Mexicans have shown pretty good judgment politically since the end of the Mexican Revolution. They avoided electing any dictators or succumbing to bloody coups since around 1930, a better record than all the rest of Latin America, Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, or China. They've also avoided long bloody foreign quagmires. Stupid ideas like invading Iraq or Russia was never in the cards for Mexico, but their leaders good judgment prevent any military coups or random costly wars in nearby Central America. Reagan would have been happy to support Mexico in some senseless Cold War proxy invasions.
http://news.yahoo.com/syria-rebels-seize-oil-field-town-183613436.html
Arab storm.
What is amazing is that every the Republican operatives are past talking about ethnicity and have now noticed most black and Latino children are born to single mothers. Does anyone really believe that the current form of the Republican Party will ever be able to appeal to single black or Latino mothers or even their children?
"One might hope that after this whole Marco Rubio gambit inevitably and spectacularly fails, the GOP establishment will reconsider its haste to pander to the Latino vote. Unfortunately, more likely, the GOP will double-down on its efforts, and conclude that Rubio wasn't Latino enough."
By the time that rolls around it will be endgame for the Republicans. The Republicans have got to quit screwing around with all of these BS things and get back to being Conservatives. Romney's result shows just how perilous the situation has become for the Republicans. They have got to stop illegal immigration, not support some pathway BS. Reduce non-illegal immigration. Fight against AA, disparate impact, etc.
Pat Buchanan had a piece a few months ago where he said that of course Hispanics aren't going to vote Republican since they don't pay much in the way of taxes and get lots of benefits.
"GOP is in damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
I say kill it. Then we all join the dems and subvert it from within."
I know, right? The way to start screwing with the dems right away is for whites to start counting themselves as minorities on the basis of being part American Indian, or part Hispanic or part Pakistani, part Congo Beaver Monkey, whatever... if there is a heritable reason, someone in the woodpile to justify it, fine... if not, as is the case for most whites, then claim it as your 'cultural' heritage like Elizabeth Warren, Ward Churchill, and the like. If everyone is a minority, then no one is.
Genius by Eysenck on Galton's folly and regression to mean
perfectly happy to "pull up the ladders"
Wishful thinking. Don't forget the phenom of Championism - you diss my people, you're the enemy. It's totally irrational economically but that's what we're dealing with.
David, David, David. You just don't understand the Republicans' brilliant strategy: of course they'll lose percentages with all those new immigrants, but they'll make up for it in volume.
Implicit in many of the points Steve makes, but perhaps timely to say bluntly and explicitly is the following. Discussions about voting and other social behavior that disaggregates "Americans" into categories & groups according to race, class, religion, national origin (ethnic), age, etc. rarely recognize that "Latinos/Hispanics" can be disaggregated according to the same variables--but with different degrees of salience to be sure. Class is often more explicit; race muted, for example. At best this is a politically constructed meta-ethnic category with very few social group underpinnings.
Another point about Cuban-Americans. One useful way to think of the community is to remember the experience of the Radio Free Europe group of political refugees/exiles (not classic economic immigrants). Extreme right wing politics and very useful to U.S. intelligence anti-communist efforts. But their children who muted their own expression of their beliefs out of a mixture of respect for their parents and fear of reprisal, eventually reveled a normal range of American political and social values once the influence and dominance of the first generation passed.
Having taught at a university in Miami for 7 years in the 1990's, I can say this is or certainly will be a talented, ambitious, and productive generation as the dominance of the exile generation with its fanatic anti-Castroism and propensity for violence passes from the scene.
But will other ethnic groups from the Caribbean, South America, and Mexico accept Cuban-American leadership? Highly doubtful. Read Tom Wolfe. . .he gets a lot of these dynamics absolutely right, whatever you may think about his stylistic flourishes.
The solidarity of Hispanics that Republicans perceive is an ad hoc thing. It's a solidarity against us — the Whites, the founding ethnic group, or whatever you want to call it — and against the Republican Party. You're doing the best job of pointing out the Republican error of anybody that I know of right now. Ex-Army is linking to you like mad on the subject:
Rubio tiene sed.
It's not very mysterious. Hispanics thought they'd get more from the Dems in terms of free health care in a country that has a first world health care system; expensive, yes, but paid for by others. Also, job and income prospects are better here than back in their homeland and everything caters to them by being bi-lingual. They have their own television and radio stations, majority Hispanic schools (paid for by white taxpayers), clubs,restaurants, etc. They have it pretty good here. Illinois now will issue drivers licenses to illegals. Insofar as immigration issues go, they've been coming by the millions regardless of which party is in power; they just sneak or barge in with impunity. They don't care about paths to citizenship, they just don't want immigration laws enforced so they can just go about their business. They have no concerns about abstract ideologies or any chit-chat about founding fathers, but care about the tangible benefits that living in a modern country provides (subsidized by others, of course). They even get affirmative action benefits, so what's not to like? Romney wasn't far off the mark when he he later said the Dems won by giving out 'gifts'.
Mestizo immies will vote Democrat because they want to keep getting the free pie they get now, the fat juicy slice of it jam packed with goodies paid for mostly by white people. They will never switch to GOP. Why on earth should they?
The younger white Hispanics who are smart become more affluent and, of course, turn into SWPLs at the same rate as other young, smart white people. Because on that end it's all about the cultural narrative, which the Left has locked up tighter than Joan River's last facelift. The Hispanic SWPLs will never vote GOP either.
Basically, there is no common sense platform remaining that will be a winner for the GOP. The culture wars are over and the Right lost massively. The political wars are just about over too, the tipping point having been reached.
The sad fact is that when the GOP did have power during the Bush II disaster they basically acted like Democrats. In hindsight, that really was the last hope for saving America, the last time an ostensibly "nationalist" party had control of all branches, and the Republicans just whored themselves out to everyone ready to grease their palms.
This fish is fried. There is no longer a GOP "strategy" that will work. Though the strategists will probably have one or two more major election cycles to suck money out of some stupid rich guy that thinks he can be President.
Banksters win. Cultural Marxists win. The future is Bladerunner.
PS - the captchas are almost indecipherable. I had to change six times before I found one I could read.
The Republican problem is biological - these Central Americans on the whole are not capable of building or maintaining an advanced civilization, they must be parasites if they want to live above the level that they are able to maintain. A certain percentage, say a tenth or a quarter, will rise more or less by their own ability and SOME of these might vote against rampant parasitism, but those numbers won't do the Republicans much good. Certainly they'll never be like the white working class (at least in much of the South and the Midwest) who, though getting little from the system, held back the tide for decades. The Republicans repeatedly stabbed Kansas in the back as a reward.
The reply above is right - bury the rotting corpse of the Republican party and join the Democrats. Then at least you'll have some say in how your occupied country is run. A vote for the Republicans will more and more become nothing but a wasted protest vote. An influx of conservatives and moderates will probably cause a split in the Democratic party and result in the far-left kooks becoming much less effective in their new Green Party. Wake up, in dumping the crook Republicans you've got nothing to lose but useless wars for Israel, tax breaks for billionaires, betrayal in everything you hold dear, and, oh yeah, some of your chains.
Economic policy is a red herring. The GOP is an implicit white nationalist party, like the BNP but in drag. That is how everyone else views them. Whether they acknowledge that and become explicit in time to remain relevant at the national level is the question.
Not that even that matters -- the 1965 immigration law killed the USA. The fact that the patient is still ambulatory (economics) doesn't mean the prognosis is uncertain. The other parts of the Culture of Critique were either benign (psychoanalysis?) or reversible (Marxism, feminism), but this mean extinction.
Limited constitutional government is a White, and more specifically English thing.
Many "Hispanics" that are actually white or light mestizo could go for a GOP that was Buchananite-Sailerite, but theological libertarianism, Randianism, or similar ideologies are guaranteed nonstarters. Less government as a consequence isn't necessarily a deterrent, but less government on principle is a waste of time. That's also true of Irish, Italians, and Eastern Euro-Americans like the ones that populated South Chicago wen I grew up there. They still populate...err...umm...most of the swing states Romney lost which torpedoed him in the electoral college.
The indios and darker mestizos are born socialists, period. And they resent anyone smarter or lighter. You want to use them as the opposition, not appeal to them. In fact ideally you want them to leave the country. Measures like Official English,restricting the number of Spanish stations on broadcast media (which is doable via the FCC) and generally pissing them off are good.
Their ditzy economics also keeps the Republicans from capturing the white working class vote.
"Mr Lomez said...
One might hope that after this whole Marco Rubio gambit inevitably and spectacularly fails, the GOP establishment will reconsider its haste to pander to the Latino vote. Unfortunately, more likely, the GOP will double-down on its efforts, and conclude that Rubio wasn't Latino enough."
Quite possibly true. Whom could the GOP get to cement that all-important latino vote? Hey - Danny Trejo in 2016!
White America's last hope is that Democrats will begin fighting furiously over federal spoils and eventually fracture. I'm still on board with Steve's suggestion that the Democrats get labeled as "the black party" since at the moment it funnels the most welfare and hiring privilege to this group. Eventually, numerically superior Latinos will figure they can either muscle blacks out or follow some Chicano nationalist movement set up for them by a Conquistador politician like Julian Castro.
Meanwhile, the GOP can solidify explicitly as the white party.
"One might hope that after this whole Marco Rubio gambit inevitably and spectacularly fails, the GOP establishment will reconsider its haste to pander to the Latino vote. Unfortunately, more likely, the GOP will double-down on its efforts, and conclude that Rubio wasn't Latino enough."
The problem is that time is running out, and by the time the Rubio strategy has run its course anything short of explicit racial pandering to nonwhites will be a nonviable strategy.
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/15/why_technology_loves_obama/
GOP lost the superrich. It lost the minorities. It lost the Reagan Democrat blue collars. It lost the educated middle classes.
It only has bible belt dummies and anti-black neoconfeds.
Time to call it quits.
OT, but I'm so happy the WAPo is laying people off left and right and trying not to let it be big news.
Let PRAVDA progs reap what they sowed.
So this notion that Marco Rubio is going to heal their problems — it’s not even sophomoric; it’s juvenile! And by the way: the bigger problem they’ve got with Latinos isn’t immigration. It’s their economic policies and health care. The group that supported the president’s health care bill the most? Latinos.”
Most Hispanics (say2/3)are overdetermined to vote Left-Democrat, on both economic & ethnic (& possibly ethical) grounds.
That is, most Hispanic households earn less than $50,000 pa and therefore will vote DEMs on grounds of economic self-interest, to bolster the workfare & welfare state.
But even Hispanic housholds that earn substantially above $50,000, an SES threshold that tilts somewhat towards the REPs, will also tend to vote DEMs, most likely on grounds of ethnic solidarity. Colored Minority groups will tend to coalesce to countervale the power of White majority.
A Crooked Timber blogger will tell you with face set unerringly straight that Hispanics are voting DEM-Left for purely ethical reasons, or because the REPs are plumb crazy. I have my doubts since Hispanics don't seem especially interested in Grand Ideological Narratives. (NTTIAWWT)
So maybe it's all of the above.
By the time that rolls around it will be endgame for the Republicans. The Republicans have got to quit screwing around with all of these BS things and get back to being Conservatives. Romney's result shows just how perilous the situation has become for the Republicans. They have got to stop illegal immigration, not support some pathway BS. Reduce non-illegal immigration. Fight against AA, disparate impact, etc.
2/15/13, 5:16 AM I give up on this. If we luck out 2 to 5 million Mexicans might reutrn home in the 2020's if robots elimnate a lot of low skilled jobs. It just depends if legalization happens. As for liberals I think they are doom too in the long term most people are getting tried of both liberals and conservatives, not certain what will replaced them.
It only has bible belt dummies and anti-black neoconfeds.
Actually, it has the other rich, the oil tycooms like the Koch brothers, and land barons like Don Bren of the Irvine Company and Trump sometimes. It fact contrary to what folks believe in Texas and the South higher income whites who called to evangelical colleges vote Republican, Mittens split the higher income vote with Obama, its a myth that old Republicans are low income whites from West Virginia or Kentucky. Both Collins and Fort Bend are in the top 25 highest income counties and they went for Mittens. Mittens even won Newport Beach in Orange County even if he lost the state by high margins in California to Obama. Mittens did get his rich folks as well.
By the way Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hanney have higher incomes than most of your liberal news media people. Rush makes about 40 million and Sean 20 milion, so the Republicans do have big business behind them as much as the Dems.
" Leroy Dances with Reindeer said...
"GOP is in damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
I say kill it. Then we all join the dems and subvert it from within."
I know, right? The way to start screwing with the dems right away is for whites to start counting themselves as minorities on the basis of being part American Indian, or part Hispanic or part Pakistani, part Congo Beaver Monkey, whatever... if there is a heritable reason, someone in the woodpile to justify it, fine... if not, as is the case for most whites, then claim it as your 'cultural' heritage like Elizabeth Warren, Ward Churchill, and the like. If everyone is a minority, then no one is."
-If I screwed an Asian girl in college, does that count?
[QUOTE]Many "Hispanics" that are actually white or light mestizo could go for a GOP that was Buchananite-Sailerite,[/QUOTE]
Even most White and Light Skin Mestizo Hispanics are left of center in their political views.
Ricky Martin, Cameron Diaz, Rita Moreno, Jorge Ramos, etc are all hardcore lefties.
Republicans are in a Zugzwang of their own making. For the last 30 years they have tried to make the least bad move on immigration (as defined by the mass media). Now the chickens are coming home to roost, and there and no more good moves left for them.
some democrat politician was just arrested for gambling away 1 BILLION dollars. from the new york times:
http://tinyurl.com/aml25s3
former mayor of san diego, maureen o'connor.
how is that EVEN POSSIBLE. this CANNOT be real. 1 BILLION dollars. WTF!
in typical year 2013 fashion, where up is down, left is right, blue is red, right is wrong, we are told that it is the republicans who have an economic policy problem.
yet every state which is a democrat stronghold has been financially ruined by democrats.
QUOTE]By the way Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hanney have higher incomes than most of your liberal news media people. Rush makes about 40 million and Sean 20 milion, so the Republicans do have big business behind them as much as the Dems.[/QUOTE]
Rush Limbaugh has a total net worth of $350 million dollars.
That makes him wealthier than sports athletes like LeBron James and A-List Hollywood stars like Leonardo DiCaprio for example.
did anybody read that entire 10 page article? i did. and it just sounds retarded to me. for example, it says potential voters really care a lot about jobs and the economy, and would vote for republicans if only they'd let gays marry.
what? so doesn't that mean what people actually care about is gays marrying, and not about jobs or the economy? what the voters are saying is their priority is gays marrying. they cannot possibly overlook this, and would rather give up other things in their life in order to vote to try to make sure this happens.
yet i don't see "gay marriage" as the leading issue in any poll.
hilariously, at the same time, we are told constantly that it has no effect on anything if gays can marry. well doesn't that mean it pretty much has no effect on anything if they can't marry? so these voters just can't overlook something that doesn't matter, and would rather vote against their own self interests, which they openly admit they are doing, in order to try to make sure that gays can marry, something which doesn't affect them.
basically what this NYT article tells me is that the liberal controlled television media has been EXTREMELY effective in brainwashing millions of people into thinking gays getting married is one of the most important things in the world, and if we can't get that, we need to move towards that before working on any other issues.
huh? what? and let's think about this for a second. did anybody think this way even 10 years ago? why, all of a sudden, are SO MANY people SO CONCERNED about whether gays can marry? was it a pressing issue 10 years ago? 20? 30? why now, all of a sudden?
it's because somebody told them to think that way. they didn't start thinking that on their own.
of course the upside is that if republicans throw up their hands and say "ok gays can get married nationwide", then these same voters will turn around and vote democrat again, for whatever reason the liberal controlled media tells them to, or because they are natural democrats.
this is just an example of one of the nonsensical things in the article. it's rife with stuff that makes no sense.
In this day and age there are too many Steve Sailers working for both parties for both parties not to be aware of the voting tendencies of large demographics. Think about all the data being collected, crunched and broken down into more categories than I can name. There is zero chance the GOP believes Hispanics reject them only because of immigration.
So you have to look past all the baloney they are trumpeting and try to deduce why the GOP elite is going to cave on immigration.
1) The elite of the GOP, like the dems, go to schools like Harvard and Yale, and thus are inculcated with the same prevailing worldview. Namely, they believe in globalism, free trade, supranational governing bodies, and the free movement of people between nations. Basically the only difference between the party elite when they finish indoctrination is determining the tax rate.
2) The GOP is beholden to its business lobby, aka the chamber of commerce and big agriculture, who want cheap labor.
3)The GOP is beholden to its foreign policy lobby, aka the neocons, who want the US to be a universal nation so that we will be more inclined to be involved in the world. They also see in the immigrants more cannon fodder.
Of course many neocons come from a leftist background and support open borders for other, more tribal reasons too.
4) Finally being against immigration puts the GOP in the dangerous position of becoming a white party. And that must not be allowed to happen. See item 1 above. It's better to lose the right way then to win the wrong way.
hink about all the data being collected, crunched and broken down into more categories than I can name. There is zero chance the GOP believes Hispanics reject them only because of immigration.
True. They may be stupid, but they can't be that ignorant. They can't really believe that Hispanics are natural Republican voters, or any of that nonsense.
I think your main point is correct: they're globalists, and as such they don't think borders matter (or should even exist). They see different nations or peoples as having different roles: Americans and Western Europeans are consumers, East Asians assemble stuff, Latin America provides cheap labor, Africa is natural resources, and so on.
To bring these resources together so they can work with each other efficiently as a global economy, you have to weaken the borders, or better, eliminate them completely.
Medicaid Helps Hospitals Pay For Illegal Immigrants’ Care
@Jody
She didn't gamble away 1 billion, she claims to have gambled more than a billion and lost only 13 million.
One of the replies from the NYT thread probably has it right:
If she made $1 billion in casino wagers over 9 years and only lost $13 million she was doing remarkably well. If she had put the billion in an S&P index fund 9 years ago her net position would not be much different.
My guess would be that she is attempting to minimize her problem by maximizing the amount she claims to have gambled. If someone researches the facts, I would bet, I would double down on that bet, that she actually played less than $50 million and was a far bigger loser than she is claiming. Playing 100's of thousands each day every day would be tough to conceal.
You're a cheap date, Sailer. Any Democrat or obvious anti-Republican quote dispenser who blasts this year's model roll-out from the Dow Jones GOP factory--even when that critic is a numb-nuts like Plouffe, lamely regurgitating what Heather Mac Donald observed a week after the election--is instantly hailed by you as a genius; a proven performer; the next Kevin Phillips; exceptionally handsome & popular with the ladies, etc.
Don't be obtuse: Plouffe's statement is an "admission against interest."
He went Off Message because he's a highly competitive campaigner.
That's also true of Irish, Italians, and Eastern Euro-Americans like the ones that populated South Chicago wen I grew up there. They still populate...err...umm...most of the swing states Romney lost which torpedoed him in the electoral college.
That is a clue to the background of this fellow who keeps saying that iStevies should abandon the Repub. Party and become Democrats. He grew up in a Catholic family with labor union members in a Great Lakes state. He hates Republicans because the boss at his Dad's factory was a Prot.
It only has bible belt dummies and anti-black neoconfeds.
Carl Schmitt: "Real politics begins when the enemy comes into view."
Do you think the Bible Belt dummies will continue to always turn the other cheek when insulted?
"Plouffe's statement is an "admission against interest.""
It's like - even though it's not in his interest to say this - he just can't stand the stupidity of the (completely staged) public debate.
Does anyone buy the lie that Jeb Bush, John McCain, Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, Jeff Flake, etc., really, truly believe that Republicans will win the Latino vote by supporting amnesty?
I don't think those guys are that stupid. I don't think they really believe it. I think it's a lie they are telling us in order to get Republican voters to accept the unacceptable. They support amnesty either because it will yield them financial rewards or because they are secretly liberals.
For most of them it is probably the financial payoff. We live in an era when an ex-president and ex-vice president without a shred of private sector experience between them can leave office and become worth $100 million+ within a few years; and when senators like Orrin Hatch can use their connections to marry their children off to the sons or daughters of billionaire families like the Marriotts.
Scant few politicians are in office anymore because of the self-satisfaction of public service. They are in it to be rich, powerful, and preferably both. The United States is an empire now, and a decaying one. Get used to it.
The real problem the GOP faces is that middle class, conservative, white voters are all but indifferent to politics except when election time rolls around. We don't protest. We don't organize. We have practically no say in the culture or the media. We don't engage in boycotts (which are very effective, despite what you might believe). And we don't contribute to politicians. Most conservatives prefer to be indifferent to politics when it really matters.
We may be better informed than the Left, but we are not as active or well-organized, and that is why they win.
Republicans need to view Latino Gangs as Freedom Fighters as per Fatima and Medjugorje,providing private order against Obama's aborting gay teachers and red regulators who are mean to us.
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