From the NYT:
Kelly Said Street Stops Targeted Minorities, Senator Testifies
By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN
During a legislative debate in 2010 over the Police Department’s use of stop-and-frisk encounters, the police commissioner, Raymond W. Kelly, met with the governor at the time, David A. Paterson, to defend the tactic’s importance as a crime-fighting tool.
According to a state senator, Eric Adams, who was at the meeting at the governor’s office in Midtown Manhattan, the commissioner said that young black and Hispanic men were the focus of the stops because “he wanted to instill fear in them, every time they leave their home they could be stopped by the police.”
Senator Adams, a Brooklyn Democrat who is a former captain in the New York Police Department, recalled the meeting as he testified in Federal District Court in Manhattan on Monday, as a trial over the constitutionality of the department’s use of the tactic entered its third week.
Commissioner Kelly, who is not being called to testify, said in remarks to reporters on Monday that Senator Adams’s characterization of what he said was “absolutely, categorically untrue.” Commissioner Kelly has also filed an affidavit in court, saying, “At that meeting I did not, nor would I ever, state or suggest that the New York City Police Department targets young black and Latino men for stop-and-frisk activity.”
But if blacks and Hispanics eventually decide that rather than getting randomly humiliated by The Man when they walk the streets of New York, they'd rather move to Georgia or Florida, well, don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.
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28 comments:
Who did Bloomberg piss off to get this thing started?
Bloomberg is term limited out (actually he was term limited out four years ago as well, but the media made a big push to let him have one more term because they love him so much -- heck, he employs a lot of the media). So, this is jockeying over whether the police chief moves up to be mayor or not.
But if blacks and Hispanics eventually decide that rather than getting randomly humiliated by The Man when they walk the streets of New York, they'd rather move to Georgia or Florida, well, don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.
If he really is who he claims to be, and if he's in the mood to be honest with us about it, then I'd love to know what commenter "Truth" thinks of this.
obama sued arizona to stop LEOs in the state from doing exactly the same thing.
You left out one important thing. Eric Adams is black. If his name was Deshawn, Darnell, or Dominique, nothing need be said. But Eric?
Would you rather starve in places like say, Atlanta, or get free stuff in NYC? With the pleasure of scaring and intimidating unarmed White people, if you are Black or Hispanic and of the thug persuasion?
A Black or Hispanic guy who goes to work every day, and gets hassled, and has skills, will move. Thugs not so much.
Anyway, water under the bridge. Stop and Frisk is as dead as the Whigs.
I seriously doubt that Kelly would tell a Black governor, while in the presence of a Black cop to witness it, that he discriminated against Blacks.
That doesn't mean he didn't-just that he wouldn't have said so. You can't rise in any government hierarchy saying things like that.
Gentrification would do it too. But that takes a while. And the media generally whines about and opposes it. Which makes it take even longer.
The deterrence explanation makes sense, in an Occam's Razor sort of way. A quick example to illustrate the magic trick the NYPD has pulled. Last Friday night / Saturday morning, my inamorata and I went to one of our favorite open-late restaurants in the West Village. Driving on West 12th at 2am, my only fear was that I might hit a drunken white person stumbling out into the street.
Young white (and a few Asian) kids -- including women by themselves -- were walking around looking at their smart phones like they had no natural predators. And bear in mind there was no obvious NYPD presence there -- it wasn't like Times Square where you see platoons of cops out in force. It was just a NAM-free zone. The only NAMs we saw all night were the busboys and bar backs.
That wasn't an atypical night down there either.
I worked in Manhattan on 23rd St. for a few years in the late 70's. Theres a big park, Madison Square Park, between Madison and 5th. Back in the 70's it was always full of drug dealers. Now, its very nice, very yuppie. The whole area south of 23rd (the Flatiron district) is much cleaned up and it is much whiter. They are doing something to make it whiter.
The more obvious interpretation is that Kelly wants them to be scared of the police so that think twice about carrying a knife or a gun with them when they leave the house. This is a great benefit both to the young black man who is prevented from murdering from someone and the young black man who is is prevented from being murdered.
Gentrification would do it too. But that takes a while. And the media generally whines about and opposes it. Which makes it take even longer.
Does the media oppose gentrification? Aren't they part of the gentrifying class in big cities?
one of our favorite open-late restaurants in the West Village.
Which one?
@whiskey
Would you rather starve in places like say, Atlanta, or get free stuff in NYC? With the pleasure of scaring and intimidating unarmed White people, if you are Black or Hispanic and of the thug persuasion?
Do you think more scaring and intimidating of white people goes on in New York City or in Atlanta?
But if blacks and Hispanics eventually decide that rather than getting randomly humiliated by The Man when they walk the streets of New York, they'd rather move to Georgia or Florida, well, don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.
Is there any testimonial evidence that blacks are deliberately being squeezed out of certain big cities?
one of our favorite open-late restaurants in the West Village.
Which one?
The Greenwich Ave outpost of The Meatball Shop
I've lived in NYC for more than 20 years and follow local politics a little. Eric Adams is not a credible witness to me.
"A Black or Hispanic guy who goes to work every day, and gets hassled, and has skills, will move. Thugs not so much."
They're not going to stop and hassle a guy who looks* like he's going to work. They'll stop people who look like gangstas either because they are or because they want to look that way so the real gangstas target someone weaker looking.
(*or more likely people they already recognize and know are criminals.)
Once the gangstas have been forced out the guy going to work can be pushed out the easy way via gentrification.
"Who did Bloomberg piss off to get this thing started?"
I could be wrong about this. Maybe even paranoid. But there was a period when local Republicans were trying to recruit Ray Kelly to run for mayor in this year's election. I think I started hearing about stop and frisk around that time. It wouldn't shock me if this was started by one of Kelly's potential opponents. It's now out of the bag though, has a life of its own.
According to this web page stop-and-frisk has been in effect since at least 2002. I swear that I never heard a word about it till last year. Had anyone?
By the way, according to the NYPD, so far this year we've had 29% fewer murders than last year. Last year NYC only had 417 murders. It had 2,262 in 1990. When I think of what anti-stop-and-frisk activists are trying to do, my blood boils.
"According to this web page stop-and-frisk has been in effect since at least 2002. I swear that I never heard a word about it till last year. Had anyone?"
Lot longer than that. That's how zero tolerance worked except back then *maybe* the overall balance was weighted more towards crime and less towards cleansing prime real estate to make money.
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"By the way, according to the NYPD, so far this year we've had 29% fewer murders than last year. Last year NYC only had 417 murders. It had 2,262 in 1990. When I think of what anti-stop-and-frisk activists are trying to do, my blood boils."
My blood boils for those who died because New York "liberals" section eighted their murder rate onto other people outside the city so they could have Manhattan for themselves.
My blood boils for those who died because New York "liberals" section eighted their murder rate onto other people outside the city so they could have Manhattan for themselves.
One wonders how this will all play out. Is CoNY going to lose S&F in the courts? Or will all of America gain it? I think I'm happy with either outcome. So they'll probably find a third option.
" I swear that I never heard a word about it till last year. Had anyone?"
i heard about it all through the 00s, as blue collar guys were routinely stopped and checked, with the police taking away their work knives. on the subway and on the street, middle class laborers were having their blades taken away. that's where i first heard about it. i posted about this on here a few years ago, before the mainstream media coverage.
the police department would send out some officers and their assignment that month was to frisk down people for knives and harrass them if the blades were too long or not fixed or whatever. i'm sure they were doing the same for handguns and other various quotas. same with state police or traffic police who have montly quotas adjusted up and down by the police chief about how many speeding tickets they should write, how many traffic citations they should be averaging. the political battle over those kinds of things emerged in the 90s where the police departments became wary of giving too many tickets and traffic stops to the wrong kind of people, and instituted racial profiling quotas.
after 2000 is when i really noticed many police departments were going hands off on illegal aliens and there was a clear edict from the top down that mexicans were not to be touched, don't enforce the law on them, only on regular americans. this has escalated into a national battle, or well, maybe the battle is almost over now and the bad guys won, after obama mostly got what he wanted out of his lawsuit against arizona. i guess the bad guys are on to the next battle, making sure voter ID never happens.
We're now into an era in which perjury is a good career move. Look for this guy Adams to be appointed asst. solicitor general, or at least get a tenured professorship at Georgetown.
If S&F is stopped, it will be interesting to see what impact this will have on crime rates in the city. Would there be a sudden burst? Or a gradual escalation?
Svigor
"Or will all of America gain it?"
There's a thought. Unlikely of course but you never know.
"Do you think more scaring and intimidating of white people goes on in New York City or in Atlanta?"
In Atlanta, obviously. In NYC the Chosen Ones can get away with intimidating them back. In Atlanta if the whites fight back, hell hath no fury.
If S&F is stopped, it will be interesting to see what impact this will have on crime rates in the city. Would there be a sudden burst? Or a gradual escalation?
Also interesting to see what impact it would have on attitudes of New York residents to citizen gun possession.
"If S&F is stopped, it will be interesting to see what impact this will have on crime rates in the city. Would there be a sudden burst? Or a gradual escalation?"
Stay about the same unless people who were chased out to commit crimes in other towns came back.
But on the bright side that means those towns whose murder rate was section eighted will have a reduction.
Cool huh.
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