Barack Obama met Michelle Robinson the summer he turned 28, following his first year at Harvard Law School. On their first date, they saw Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing, which was released June 30, 1989, five weeks before his 28th birthday. With her deep roots in the respectable black lower middle class of the South Side of Chicago, she was the perfect political wife for an exotic young man whose intent was to follow Harold Washington as a black mayor of Chicago.
But that raises a question: who were Obama's girlfriends during those first 27 years and 11 months? Did he have any? The public record is curiously sparse.
In Dreams from My Father, he makes references to a serious girlfriend whom he dropped after a year because she was white (although various readers have complained that this character seems more stylized than realistic). He also claims he chose Occidental College because it was in Los Angeles, where a tourist girl he'd met was from.
But we seem to be lacking in outside evidence for the President having a romantic relationship with a human female before about his 28th birthday.
You might think that in this era where seemingly everybody wants to be a celebrity, an ex-girlfriend might want some publicity. I mean, Bernie Madoff's mistress just published her memoirs...
On the other hand, the media's abuse of Gennifer Flowers back in 1992 may have scared women off. The press attacked her virulently because she had sold her story. As everybody in the news business knows, the essence of morality is giving your story to the press for free. You can look it up: it's one of the Ten Commandments. When I finally got around to reading Ms. Flowers' views on the President in the late 1990s, they turned out to be sympathetically insightful. They helped me understand Clinton a lot better.
The press, of course, is even less interested in helping you understand Obama than they were in helping you understand Clinton.
Yet, I haven't heard any credible gay rumors about Obama, either. Having lived from 1982-2000 in Chicago, a big city with a dearth of celebrities, which means that the multitudinous locals have a lot of time on their hands to gossip about each and every one of the few celebrities in town, I got used to hearing gay rumors about seemingly every famous person in Chicago, except maybe Mike Royko, Richie Daley, and Mike Ditka: Oprah? Sure. Governor Thompson? Of course. Mayor Washington? No doubt about it! Practically every single player on the 1985 Chicago Bears? I mean, why not? But the gay rumors I've seen on the Internet and in supermarket checkout racks about Obama just seem like the usual junk.
Nor is there much circumstantial evidence. For example, Obama plays golf a lot, but doesn't much publicize it (the golf magazines I subscribe to just get their President goes golfing news second hand from the AP -- they haven't yet gotten an interview with Obama about his golf game.)
So, the topic is rather puzzling.
But that raises a question: who were Obama's girlfriends during those first 27 years and 11 months? Did he have any? The public record is curiously sparse.
In Dreams from My Father, he makes references to a serious girlfriend whom he dropped after a year because she was white (although various readers have complained that this character seems more stylized than realistic). He also claims he chose Occidental College because it was in Los Angeles, where a tourist girl he'd met was from.
But we seem to be lacking in outside evidence for the President having a romantic relationship with a human female before about his 28th birthday.
You might think that in this era where seemingly everybody wants to be a celebrity, an ex-girlfriend might want some publicity. I mean, Bernie Madoff's mistress just published her memoirs...
On the other hand, the media's abuse of Gennifer Flowers back in 1992 may have scared women off. The press attacked her virulently because she had sold her story. As everybody in the news business knows, the essence of morality is giving your story to the press for free. You can look it up: it's one of the Ten Commandments. When I finally got around to reading Ms. Flowers' views on the President in the late 1990s, they turned out to be sympathetically insightful. They helped me understand Clinton a lot better.
The press, of course, is even less interested in helping you understand Obama than they were in helping you understand Clinton.
Yet, I haven't heard any credible gay rumors about Obama, either. Having lived from 1982-2000 in Chicago, a big city with a dearth of celebrities, which means that the multitudinous locals have a lot of time on their hands to gossip about each and every one of the few celebrities in town, I got used to hearing gay rumors about seemingly every famous person in Chicago, except maybe Mike Royko, Richie Daley, and Mike Ditka: Oprah? Sure. Governor Thompson? Of course. Mayor Washington? No doubt about it! Practically every single player on the 1985 Chicago Bears? I mean, why not? But the gay rumors I've seen on the Internet and in supermarket checkout racks about Obama just seem like the usual junk.
Nor is there much circumstantial evidence. For example, Obama plays golf a lot, but doesn't much publicize it (the golf magazines I subscribe to just get their President goes golfing news second hand from the AP -- they haven't yet gotten an interview with Obama about his golf game.)
So, the topic is rather puzzling.
My published articles are archived at iSteve.com -- Steve Sailer
Posts
116 comments:
I've wondered about this, too (and to a lesser extent about the media's non-interest in said question).
I tend to think there weren't any girlfriends, though I don't know why he would not have had any love interest. He's definitely not shy. I've known plenty of men who didn't have a girlfriend until their '30s, but all were shy or weren't interested in anyone that they couldn't see themselves marrying and married their first and only girlfriend as a result.
A person's politics about matters of sexuality, reproduction, etc. are very revealing about men's personal lives and lessons learned (or not learned), but I think Obama is the exception.
We know that Obama was the most radical pro-Abortion senator in the entire senate. I do believe he is pro-choice for classic Leftist reasons, but I sensed, and even voiced back then on these threads, that his support for abortion seemed thoughtless and knee-jerk (Whatever is the Leftist position, I'll take it!). Actually, doesn't he approach every single issue this way? He only seems thoughtful about the Black community to be perfectly honest.
I wonder if his feelings about his father's sexuality and the rampant promiscuity in the Black community had any effect on his own romantic life.
Simplest explanation is most likely the correct one.
He's intelligent, sensitive, has intellectual interests and doesn't quite fit in to any community. Not exactly alpha material.
There's all this talk about him choosing Michelle out of political considerations. Most likely, he was like the majority of men and held on to the best he could get.
There's no evidence for romantic relationships before Michelle because there were none. He made some up for his book because he didn't want to look beta.
BHO is truly an ''International Man of Mystery''.
I'd say the "team" realizes that greatness requires a burnished public image. At the time, who knew of Stalin's, Mao's, or FDR's peccadilloes?
Another reason why Steve is the best...even though he's obviously gay.
Dan Hampton is gay btw....so is Steve "Mongo" McMichael, he's a top....Richard Dent is bi.... Gary Fencik is what they call a Super Gay....Otis Wilson is gay.... Dave Duerson was molested by priests at Notre Dame and now he's gay.... Singletary coaches in San Fran so I don't have to spell that out....
Refrigerator Perry blew all his money on male prostitutes....the cornerbacks Mike Richardson and Leslie Frazier were dating each other- Leslie, I mean c'mon.
Wilbur Marshall was the only hetero on that defense.
Dan in DC
Does anyone know what Obama was doing during his two years at Columbia? None of his classmates remember him.
I've heard speculation that he was a practicing Muslim with his Pakistani roommate. It's also possible he was in a deeply depressive state or addicted to cocaine.
If at any time he dabbled in homosexuality, this would have been it.
Obama went to good schools so he probably dated women of 'higher quality' than Jennifer Flowers and Paula Jones. Usually, affluent well-educated women want to lead quiet dignified lives than be tabloid material. They grew up reading books and thinking about 'serious stuff' and aren't as into celebrity culture as working class and lower-class women like Jones and Flowers(and Palin with her current tantrums adn book).
Clinton should have had his dalliances with 'higher quality' women who would have kept mum. (Notice that John Edwards' affluent and well-educated mistress hid from media attention as long and as much as possible.) Notice Camila Park Bowles didn't ask for attention but had it imposed on her by the nosy British media.
I'm thinking none, or at least none at all serious is a good bet. Some dates maybe but not much more. Obama is a very inwardly directed person, which is not exactly the same as being shy, it's more that he doesn't seem to find other people very interesting.
One white girlfriend would also fit the profile though.
I don't think it makes me a paranoid weirdo to think that any old girlfriends, or anybody else from his past who might be inconvenient, has been warned to keep quiet- possibly with some incentives for doing so. Obama is not a natural politician. Powerful people took an interest in him and paved his way. What happens to you in Chicago if you anger the wrong people? I don't know but I'll bet it's better to avoid.
Having lived from 1982-2000 in Chicago, a big city with a dearth of celebrities, which means that the multitudinous locals have a lot of time on their hands to gossip about each and every one of the few celebrities in town, I got used to hearing gay rumors about seemingly every famous person in Chicago
Obama was a nobody until 2004, when The Powers That Be bribed the judge to unseal Jack Ryan's divorce case with Seven of Nine.
Which is to say - you [and no one else, other than maybe Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn and the Minow family and Steven Koch] would have heard of him in the period 1982-2000.
Hoste and Thrasymacus may or may not accurately explain Obama but they do explain me.
I'm above average in looks, well above average in brains and quite high on the personality scale (charming, funny, powerful personality, public speaker, public singer, etc) but, by God, if I've ever been able to get one tenth the amount of female affection as (seemingly) most everyone else.
Now, I'm aware of "game" and all but aside for the question of whether I'd be able to pull it off, the larger answer is that I would have to make myself into an entirely different person to play this "game". I'd cease being sensitive, interested and interesting, and - in general - myself. What the hell's the point of being with a girl if you can't share your soul with her? May as well screw a hooker for cheaper than it would cost you to play some silly roissy game.
Without getting into the man's politics and all the rest that comes along with him, I can relate to Obama the Introverted Orator with ideas and passions that greatly outweigh those of the average man but which only appear in concentrated bursts. Like him (I imagine), I feel myself a man alone and do not fit into any gathering of humans I've ever happened to chance upon. When in a crowd I either keep to myself or am in charge of the room, being "one of the guys" (and thus more likely to get "one of the girls") is an art that every moron on Earth has managed to figure out, save me.
I have no complaints about this state of affairs aside for the fact that I'd really like to enjoy more sexual opportunities and perhaps even try this "girlfriend" thing I keep hearing about. Considering how two commentators here appear to have so quickly understand Obama without (I assume?) being of that nature themselves, I stand in reverent silence interested in learning from either of them or others whether there's a way for me to enter the 21st Century (heck, even the 1940s would be a step up) without bartering with the devil for the entireties of my Soul and Self.
Anon -- there is no way other than to understand female hypergamy and be the "Big Man" or be celibate. Being yourself is a choice for the latter, if you are not naturally a ladies man.
Beavis -- Educated women are even bigger attention whores than blue collar women. If anything, the storm of media attention would make them feel great. Heck Rielle Hunter required massive payoffs and the promise of being Elizabeth Edwards replacement to keep her mouth shut. [Hunter is a new agey professional girlfriend who appeared in altered guise in both Bret Easton Ellis and Jay McInerney novels, basically a coke-addled party girl.]
As for Obama, I was one of those proposing the Mosque for why he was AWOL at Columbia while BMOC at Occidental and Harvard (both have alumni and profs who remember him well).
Being "smart" is a definite downside for men in dating. The sweet spot is average IQ where the highest levels of testosterone are. Women generally (and younger women in particular) find higher than average IQs distasteful and indicators of less than optimal aggression, dominance, and danger.
Among Black women, Obama would have been competing with part-time DJs, drug dealers, athletes and the like. He'd have better luck with White women, where simply being Black would give him a presumed advantage in testosterone and aggression. But Obama seems to have serious reservations there.
I can well believe Michelle Obama was his only serious girlfriend, particularly if he was a nerdy guy into the Mosque.
steve aren't you at least partly guilty of some hypocriticalism??
u accuse obama of being race-conscious but every post you write and blog about is all about race.
so ..... naa nan an
Richard Hoste said: "He's intelligent, sensitive, has intellectual interests and doesn't quite fit in to any community. Not exactly alpha material."
Um, except he is now a heart-throb, graced magazine cover after cover, saves women who pass out at his rallies, and is one of the highest-status males in the United States.
Anon sez:
steve aren't you at least partly guilty of some hypocriticalism??
u accuse obama of being race-conscious but every post you write and blog about is all about race.
so ..... naa nan an
Obama told us he is post-racial, so what is he doing being a closet racist prez?
Steve's platform is HBD which in political questions translates into identifying group interests through the race lens. This helps us understand people's true motives and explain the disparate phenomenon in liberalism which is that liberals do the opposite of what they say. So where is the problem?
u accuse obama of being race-conscious but every post you write and blog about is all about race.
No, Steve often focuses on race but Obama, while very race conscious, pretends to be beyond such trivial matters. Or at least that is how he is portrayed.
Obama's lack of girlfriends is a little strange, but -- although I'm not fan and I'd love to be able to suspect him of it -- he doesn't set off my gaydar. He doesn't have the gay voice, or the gay walk, or gay mannerisms of any sort. And his love of basketball -- the most heterosexual sport in America -- doesn't set the alarm ringing either.
I think his lack of girlfriends probably has more to do with him being so conflicted and having a relatively high IQ, along with relatively low testosterone (for a black). Keep in mind, he spent much of his life searching for his identity (until he finally found it at Harvard Law School and the South Side of Chicago). That is not the ideal state of mind for skirt-chasing: it's hard to come across like an alpha male when you don't know who you are. He was also conflicted because he had a mother whom he despised at certain levels, which probably complicated his feelings towards females (without making him a homo). As a relatively high IQ guy, he had a harder time relating to most people, including most women. And despite being half black, he's not a high testosterone guy. Keep in mind, he's half East African, not West African. East Africans are traditionally much skinnier (even when they're well fed), indicating less testosterone, and they generally regard West Africans as crazy (the kind of "crazy" that high testosterone can induce). Plus he's half white. So voila, he couldn't even make the varsity basketball team at Punahou, a school with almost no other blacks.
Not a stud, and not the mindset to be a stud.
One explanation why we're not hearing about ex-gfs (or ex-bfs): There were none.
Could be BHO never dated and was a virgin until he met Michelle. It happens.
What the hell? You guys are giving more thought to this than the 12 unaccounted-for years of Jesus' life.
Who cares who he dated? (I hope that was tongue-in-cheek.)
Jesus Christ! Do The Right Thing?
That figures.
That movie was one of the most virulently racist screeds to ever hit the big screen.
I lived in Ft. Greene Park in Brooklyn when the movie was filmed.
Turns out doing the right thing is blacks burning down white businesses.
The simplest explanation seems to be that they were white, and were "asked with money" by Team Obama to keep quiet. Can you imagine the attention an ex would get on the talk show circuit with a "Obama dumped me because I'm white" memoir? The fact that the GOP wasn't able to dig up anyone shows they're really in disarray.
Richard Hoste said: "He's intelligent, sensitive, has intellectual interests and doesn't quite fit in to any community. Not exactly alpha material."
Um, except he is now a heart-throb, graced magazine cover after cover, saves women who pass out at his rallies, and is one of the highest-status males in the United States.
Yes, and if he was dating now he'd be knockin' em dead.
You haven't heard any credible witnesses to his being one of those who evoke the phrase "not that there's anything wrong with that?" Well, obviously then I won't bring up the obvious name, since you would not credit him. The obots have been busy bees on this subject--very busy and very illegal (which said individual has well-documented.) Still, I understand the hesitancy to bring it up since you want to remain above things that connote "gossip."
However, this individual, who shall here remain nameless, sent a copy of his memoires to the White House this past summer (which marked it recieved) and in this book he described certain details of the current "POTUS" which only BO, MO, and his doctors, would be aware. The Russians and Israelis know all about this stuff and are laughing up their sleeves at us.
So. Whatever. It'll all come out in the end.
"Um, except he is now a heart-throb, graced magazine cover after cover, saves women who pass out at his rallies, and is one of the highest-status males in the United States."
Hilarous. That may have seemed the case in the staged rallies where they bussed a lot of people in, but nowadays he's less popular than a used kleenex. Even blacks (not the political kind) have little to say about him.
He says nothing of substance, appears to think nothing of substance, embarrases us before foreign leaders who seem to be snubbing or laughing at him, gives evidence of not liking America or Americans (the white kind anyway). The Soros-and-other-rich-beasts-owned media will continue to push this person in our faces whether we want him there or not (mostly not nowadays) but "heartthrob"? Give me a break.
Obama is a beta who through a loophole of racial politics got to be president. Just look at the way his wife alphas him whenever she feels like. Michelle has bigger balls (and probably bigger biceps) than Barry. Pity she's so homely.
I'd assume that Obama's old romantic interests know how to keep their mouths shut, as do his friends and other acquaintances. Not everyone is interested in writing a tell-all or appearing in the papers.
Can we get serious about Obama?
1. he really did not graduate from an Ivy League school (neither his grades nor SAT/LSATs were good enough)
2. Ayres wrote "Dreams From My Father"
3. Obama is neither creative nor brilliant--which begs the question:
What is Obama?
Just another punk with ambition and an average IQ--the quintessential black preacher. And who cares about his sex life?
where is obama's transcripts, birth certificate, grades, papers published in college...etc.
side note, SWPL Ken Burns lives in a town that's 98 % white.. its easy to be liberal then, I guess..
For example, Obama plays golf a lot, but doesn't much publicize it (the golf magazines I subscribe to just get their President goes golfing news second hand from the AP -- they haven't yet gotten an interview with Obama about his golf game.)
I think that's a marketing decision. According to The Best and the Brightest, a big part of the "presentation" of the New Frontier was that the new administration played tennis and touch football, while the outgoing administration played golf. In fact Kennedy was a much better golfer than Eisenhower.
His mysterious Caucasian girlfriend, whom we discussed here at iSteve 14 months ago, was in fact Ayers's old flame, Diana Oughton, who perished in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion.
As for his heterosexuality, look at this and this and this and then just try to tell me he isn't a little light in the loafers.
If you want more, then learn about his bisexual pedophile mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, read his poem, Pop, and finally glance at his obsession with questions of sodomite legalistics in the Chicago Law School exams.
Heck, I'd give you even odds that he's messed around with Ayers himself [Ayers is an admitted bisexual and a known rapist].
PS: Did you know that Ayers blurbed Kevin Jennings's book? Kevin Jennings is Obama's "Safe Schools Czar" who is up to his eyeballs in NAMBLA contacts.
@ Anthony: "Um, except he is now a heart-throb, graced magazine cover after cover, saves women who pass out at his rallies, and is one of the highest-status males in the United States."
Jon Gosselin or Barack Obama? I am confused. Beta males who suddenly have alpha powers have to be in a position to use them. Gosselin was, but that has imploded - he couldn't handle it. Obama is in no position to leverage those powers. You see how his wife bagged on him during the campaign (could you see Nancy Reagan/Laura Bush/Barbara Bush doing that? Maybe Hillary, but she had a higher calling).
It's clear (to me, at least) who is the dominant partner in that Presidential relationship.
+1 to Dan in DC. Hilarious.
Anonymous writes:
I'm above average in looks, well above average in brains and quite high on the personality scale (charming, funny, powerful personality, public speaker, public singer, etc) but, by God, if I've ever been able to get one tenth the amount of female affection as (seemingly) most everyone else.
Now I understand why someone would sign their posting anonymous.
"I wonder if his feelings about his father's sexuality and the rampant promiscuity in the Black community had any effect on his own romantic life."
He didn't know his father, and had never been to "the black community" until his 20's.
"I've heard speculation that he was a practicing Muslim with his Pakistani roommate. It's also possible he was in a deeply depressive state or addicted to cocaine."
Or maybe he just never attended Columbia.
"I don't think it makes me a paranoid weirdo to think that any old girlfriends, or anybody else from his past who might be inconvenient, has been warned to keep quiet-"
Or quieted.
"I'd cease being sensitive, interested and interesting, and - in general - myself....I can relate to Obama the Introverted Orator with ideas and passions that greatly outweigh those of the average manI'm above average in looks, well above average in brains and quite high on the personality scale (charming, funny, powerful personality, public speaker, public singer, etc)... "
Where do you rank on the humility scale there, Sport?
"Obama told us he is post-racial, so what is he doing being a closet racist prez?"
What makes you think that he's a "closet racist prez?" Please read that again, as I said "think" not "regurgitate Glen Beck."
I'll bet he did pretty well for himself while in high school in Hawaii.
Peter
To me, the most likely explanation is that except for Michelle, all of his paramours have been white women. He wouldn't want his most loyal demographic (black women) to know this.
He's not a nerd, so celibacy before the age of 28 is out of the question.
The downlow possibility shouldn't be completely ruled out. I'd put the odds at 10%. This is what happens when a man behaves like a swipple and pens a book full of detailed explorations of his boring feelings about everything that's ever happened to him - people become unwilling to rule out the possibility that he might be gay.
"There's all this talk about him choosing Michelle out of political considerations. Most likely, he was like the majority of men and held on to the best he could get."
Yes, but when his political career got going (he was elected state senator at 35), he could have traded up. He may be smart and sensitive, but, as others here have pointed out, he's not shy. He'd been to Harvard and Columbia, which confers status in the eyes of women.
I'm not a believer in the celibacy hypothesis.
Steve, you prove once again why you're invaluable. How long have you've been asking this question and still no evidence of an ex?
This reminds me about those questions about our current Secretary of State. She met Bill in law school. Although she's been in the public eye for 17 years, nobody's ever stepped forward to say, yeah, back in the day, I took her to the prom. Huma?
I would guess that Obama probably didn't have any long-term, serious relationships and the short ones he did have were probably with white revolucionistas.
Reasons we haven't heard about them:
1. Stories about passionate affairs with white women would probably hurt his support among young white liberal she-men.
2. These women are probably now married to white men, and don't want to get mired in an embarrassing media firestorm - especially since Obama eventually married a black woman.
3. The people who know about these relationships are fellow radicals, and don't want to undermine Obama's radical agenda.
Obama was either a major player with no real GF's, just part-time lovers, or his handlers have asked "nicely" to girlfriends from his past to keep mum. This was not a man that attained much impulse control and was dealing with the classic tragic mulatto issues well until at Grad school, so why wouldn't this carry over into his personal life? Even the photographer from his Occidental days mentioned his charm, good looks, and how he always had a girl on each arm. She felt he was way out of her league and in the coolest social circle on campus.
The woman mentioned in the article was most likely not power couple material. Perhaps they simply wanted to live different lives or the "passion" evaporated. Michelle was chosen for not only for affirming his blackness, but also as the gateway to respectability in South Side Chicago's black community (Bobby Rush exploited this reality), the same reason he was a member of Trinity United Church of Christ, aside from the father figure he gained from his association with Rev. Wright.
What's with all the projection going on today?
"Um, except he is now a heart-throb, graced magazine cover after cover, saves women who pass out at his rallies, and is one of the highest-status males in the United States."
Obama is alpha now only because he is young and POTUS. The same thing happened to Clinton but the only difference was that Clinton was alpha even when he was a nobody whereas Obama wasn't.
"Educated women are even bigger attention whores than blue collar women. If anything, the storm of media attention would make them feel great."
But, it depends on the KIND of attention. Ivy League types aren't too keen on the tabloid type of attention.
It's my belief they done her in.
Obama has never said he is "post-racial". Anyone who thinks that hasn't read "Dreams from my Father".
In the book you have "Regina" (a Chicagoan) at Occidental, and a white woman in NYC. Also, in the press, his Altgeld friends talk about a white or half-Asian woman in Chicago (while he was a community organizer).
Three serious relationships between 18 and 28 (when he met Michelle). Sound pretty normal. How many relationships did you have in your 20s Steve? Zero?
(Anonymous said) "Hoste and Thrasymacus may or may not accurately explain Obama but they do explain me."
Well, there are at least two of us in the world (maybe three, including BHO). You just described me to a scarily accurate level. I've always been a highly-functioning loner, i.e., I can be very social for short bursts but just find socializing hard work and am happiest alone. Here's another thing you could have added about yourself: when you were under forty, you got a lot of invitations (albeit veiled in the usual feminine ways, of course) from women, but most were not desirable (overweight, single mothers, etc.), and the ones who were, intimidated you...and/or they were put off by your odd behavior after one or two dates.
If a slim and cute female is an awkward loner, she still gets in relationships from males' persistence and initiative. A guy like that, though, remains by himself.
They try to hide it of course, but there are a great many males (including physically attractive ones) who get very little action in their lives, because they just don't have the gumption and/or personality to make it happen. Guys like us used to be able to get a wife (when women made a choice before the clock struck 30), but the current feminist/Roissyville environment finished us.
So, yeah, pretty safe bet OBH had very little experience when he met Michelle. @Beavis, I agree in principle, but surely some third parties would remember it, some of whom would mention it on their personal blogs. There appears to have been no women to have publicly mentioned anywhere even going out on a date with him BHO. I smell me. Loner. And that's not even taking into account that he was a sknnly balck dude with no money or power.
P.S.
Here's a Derbyshire quote:
We used to be much more comfortable [with male loners] that than we now are...There was a whole bachelor culture, certainly not homosexual, and not particularly hostile to women, though regarding them as a bit of a nuisance to be got away from as much as possible — in men-only clubs, on the golf course, on walking tours with other bachelors. Philip Larkin, who was heterosexual and liked sex, but unfortunately did not much like women, wrote very affectionately about that culture. It’s all gone with the wind now, alas. If I were to suggest to one of my male colleagues at National Review that we go on a walking tour in the Catskills together, I should get a very strange look.
Full text at
http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire200507220814.asp
Obama went to private school in Hawaii. If he dated any girls, they would probably have been white. I get the feeling that he probably would have dated white girls when he was in his 20's as well. Axelrod et. al. don't want any former white girlfriends to surface.
One item: Any casual sexual encounters are at least 20 years ago. One of the lessons Obama took from his father's wasted life was not to be brought down by woman troubles and philandering.
I think we can assume some success with the ladies, because a lifelong lack of sex would eat at a man.
He started dating Michelle Obama 20 years ago at about age 28.
In Altgeld and at Columbia before that, Obama wasn't an obviously attractive financial risk and I don't think had the people skills to make up for that. (His people skills are Obama-on-stage, not the kind of politician's touch that Clinton has or McCain had with the press.)
I think any girlfriends would be found from Punahou or possibly Occidental. Barry O'Bomber was on the state championship basketball team, was a party guy according to his own biography, at a tony prep school in the late 1970's. Where there's weed and cocaine there is probably sex. Maybe not girlfriends, but encounters at parties sounds about right.
Occidental College is another possibility. The white girlfriend might be an embellishment of a one-night stand, or I could be projecting my early-1990's hookup college experience to the early 1980s. But again, who wants to read about who boffed Obama thirty years ago when they were drunk or stoned in college? The Enquirer isn't going to spend a whole lot of time beating the bushes for that story, much less pay five figures for an interview.
Columbia, Harvard and Altgeld saw the emergence of the focused, careful Obama. Relationships mean the strong probability of breakups, and just would have been a distraction.
Another point: The press hasn't been digging. Even the scandal sniffers aren't going to sink much into find Obama's old girlfriends. There's not much supermarket checkout value in who Obama dated ten^k^k^k twentyfive years ago.
Googling "Obama high school" (To check how to spell Punahou) shows one attempt by Newsmax during the campaign.
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_school_drugs/2008/10/09/138959.html
He's skinny, not particularly good looking, and really boring to listen to. How can you think he is a chick magnet? His wife looks like a drag queen who will kick his ass if he gets out of line.
Also, he went to elite majority-white schools, he probably didn't have a lot to choose from - highly intelligent white women tend not to date black guys who are only attending their school due to affirmative action.
"Where are Obama's old girlfriends?"
Wrong question Steve. Try this for a change:
'How comes that in our A.D. 2009 celebrity-driven culture not a single woman from Senator/President Obama's past came forward to bask in the shared glow of 15 minutes of fame?' (calling T99...)
He's a conflicted narcissist, not a homosexual. (Although a lot of gays are conflicted narcissists....)
I'm chortling over his huge public pratfall on the Olympics. What a ridiculous thing for a President to interrupt his schedule and beg for.
Bread and circuses indeed!
Which late Roman emperor does he remind you of, Steve?
Beavis -- Salon and Slate are filled with educated, post-Grad women (also the Atlantic) who cannot get enough attention -- detailing every icky thing about their personal life (see Sandra Tsing Loh) to get attention.
If Obama had girlfriends, and they were educated, they'd be running not walking to Salon or Slate to get a "name" writing about him and their experiences, so they could parlay it into even more fame and a bigger career.
Husbands? Kids? Are you kidding me? That's no impediment in today's narcissistic attention-whore culture. Strong among the educated too. Certainly not among disposable, consumer-ist families.
David Letterman, that "sex machine" has confessed to having sex with female staffers as part of a blackmail scheme (he called the blackmailer's bluff and went public). The audience EXPLODED in applause. There is no shame. Only fame.
Obama's old girlfriends are not out there because there were none. Not even Axelrod (who is human and blew it in Copenhagen) can herd cats or ex-Girlfriends hungry for fame and attention. I mean come on, how "cool" would "I slept with the President" be when educated married women are writing about their sexual fantasies about Obama, who is a living god to Yuppies and the Media and Hollywood.
Anon said...
"I wonder if his feelings about his father's sexuality and the rampant promiscuity in the Black community had any effect on his own romantic life."
Truth responded...
He didn't know his father, and had never been to "the black community" until his 20's.
Truth, you are leaving out one possibility in your response: Obama's image of his father may have been based on lurid (and possibly false) stories told by his mother. Mothers often tell their children some of the greatest falsehoods after a divorce to get back at their former husbands, and Obama's mother may have had a wee bit of an axe to grind.
Whatever stories Obama's mother told him probably had a major affect on his sex life, if he had one.
Another point: The press hasn't been digging. Even the scandal sniffers aren't going to sink much into find Obama's old girlfriends. There's not much supermarket checkout value in who Obama dated ten^k^k^k twentyfive years ago.
I think it has more to do with the fact that no one would believe it.
I'll bet he did pretty well for himself while in high school in Hawaii.
He went to high school [Class of 1979] during the era of The Rocky Horror Picture Show [1975].
My guess would be that TRHPS provided a pretty good roadmap of where his interests lay [and we're not talking about Susan Sarandon's character].
Do we know a lot about W's former gf's? GWHB's? Even Bill's pre-Hill gf's?
Reagan's/Carter's/Nixon's pre marriage gf's?
'Do we know a lot about W's former gf's? GWHB's? Even Bill's pre-Hill gf's?'
Cute. May I suggest you try 'laura bush run over boyfriend' in Google?
Depends how much do you want to know.
W. is a weird case. I can see how Obama ended up a 28 year old virgin, but why is Bush's wife so butt ugly? The guy was from a famous family, filthy rich and a natural alpha. He certainly underachieved.
"What the hell's the point of being with a girl if you can't share your soul with her?"
This question reminded me of my own youthful delusions about women. I don't know if yours are exactly the same as mine were though. It depends on what you mean by "soul". If you're looking for a woman with whom you could discuss abstract ideas, with whom you could have interesting, non-trivial conversations about politics, art, whatever, then you will end up being disappointed. That's not what the male-female relationship is or should be about. Women, including those who score high on IQ tests, are bored by any and all abstract ideas.
Many women will pretend to be excited by their male partners' typically male interests, but one shouldn't be fooled by that. On many occasions I've heard women complain to their friends about having to pretend in front of their husbands to like football, chess, politics, classical music or whatever. I'm sure that none of those men asked their wives or girlfriends to pretend to like any of that stuff, but women feel obligated to pretend anyway, even though they're invariably bored by the stuff in question.
There is symmetry here: unless you're gay, you will not find typically feminine interests exciting either.
Men and women are as different mentally and emotionally as they are physically. It's not completely clear to me what exactly you meant by "sharing your soul", but if you're looking for people who'd understand you in a non-trivial way, then you should look for male friends. Buddies. Trying to really understand someone from the other side of the gender divide is like trying to understand someone across a major cultural/racial divide. Maybe more so. I'm not kidding.
I don't think that our ancestors looked for "soul mates" in spouses. I think that this unrealistic, unachievable "soul mate" stuff is pretty modern. Realistic expectations can be an important contributor to happiness. Unrealistic ones hurt people all the time.
This reminds me about those questions about our current Secretary of State. She met Bill in law school. Although she's been in the public eye for 17 years, nobody's ever stepped forward to say, yeah, back in the day, I took her to the prom. Huma?
Simple answer - the young Hillary Clinton was FUGLY.
"Um, except he is now a heart-throb, graced magazine cover after cover..."
Hmm. That sentence could have applied to Rock Hudson back in his day. With celebrities, it's all about the hype.
I think young Hillary looks quite sweet in that photo.
W. is a weird case. I can see how Obama ended up a 28 year old virgin, but why is Bush's wife so butt ugly? The guy was from a famous family, filthy rich and a natural alpha. He certainly underachieved.
Remember, Dubya didn't stop boozing and partying until he was 40. So he probably got around pretty good for 20+ years while he was and wasn't married. He definitely wasn't going for a trophy wife or anything. More old school, good girl type of thing.
I read somewhere that Reagan finally married Nancy so he wouldn't have to keep trying to remember the names of the starlets he woke up next to. (Probably in The New Republic, back in the 80s, in the same article where some other Hollywood leftist thought that Reagan was part of the Stalinist cadre.)
Oh - and Bill Clinton finally learned to find more discreet women. He reportedly had an affair with Eleanor Mondale after the whole Monica thing blew over.
I think young Hillary looks quite sweet in that photo.
I thought so too.
You know, Hillary claims to have been a Goldwater girl.
If you take that at face value [which, in general, is probably not such a good idea], then you have to ask yourself - where did it all go wrong?!?
As a mixed race individual he probably just didn't have all that many serious girlfriends in his life, which is actually rather common amongst many mixed-race people because very many mixed-race people often do not fit comfortably in to either side of their mixed racial/ethnic personality and appearance and thus many personal tensions are evident (which often isn't good for the dating or social life).
With Onama's super-sized self-love maybe he didn't feel the need for any other lover. Or perhaps hookers met his needs.
Anon:"His mysterious Caucasian girlfriend, whom we discussed here at iSteve 14 months ago, was in fact Ayers's old flame, Diana Oughton, who perished in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion."
Hey genius...Obama couldn't have dated Oughton -- she died in 1970, Obama was born in 1961.
Please stop spreading misinfo ya GENIUS.
It's like a Taiwanese guy, all genteel and proper made a viruently anti-white movie that got hailed as a masterpiece by the (white) critics and then went back to a casino in Taipei to relax and laugh at the "stupid honkies" in Mandarin with his buddies.
"The Ice Storm" is based upon a novel that's part of the rather familiar by now genre of suburbs/WASP bashing novels. If he was talking about anything related to it back in Taiwan after making the movie, it was probably about cinematography, which is what he seems mostly interested in.
I have always thought the same thing about Tome Cruise and John Travolta.
If they are Gay then where are the boys?
We labour under the illusion that famous people were always memorable. Nothing farther from the truth. Being famous today does not preclude being largely inconspicuous before fame struck.
Take Obama: years ago he would have across as a non-descript hack with an exotic name.
Just because nobody remembers him at many of his former haunts does not mean he wasn't there: it could merely reflect Obama's medioctrity.
As for his sexual ambiguity, there's something definitely there. Michelle is just the kind of woman a bisexual man would marry.
But in defence of Obama, not being very active sexually under thirty with the opposite sex is not uncommon for many men.
Like other posters, I can relate to that. I'm a married man and I didn't see much action on the romantic or sexual front until I was 27. By the time I was confident enough to approach girls, I was already 20. Sure enough I had some flings and sexual encounters before I turned 27, as i said, which was the time when I started going steady with a girlfriend. But I'm afraid I left no mark on the girls I played with before my more serious relationships. In fact, I can barely remember their names or even faces. I'm sure that if I turned famous and appeared on TV, no one would remember me.
Actually, there was a tabloid story about the girl that Obama took to his high school prom- I've got it somewhere, but it'd take years to find. (One reason I read the tabs is because they will occasionally go places no other media outlet will). From what I remember, she was white, Obama did the usual "you ain't had it until you've had it from a black man, baby" thing, and they had sex. She later drifted downwards (I think was a stripper or dancer) and had a drug problem. She wouldn't talk to the tabs, they ran a photo of her trying to cover her face. I think it was the Star, but I'm not sure. She said she wanted nothing from Obama.
Per Eleanor Mondale, she was a very unattractive teenager who blossomed late in life. She had a reputation of sleeping with her Secret Service men when she was 17+. Vanity Fair ran a piece where her "popularity" with the SS was mentioned. She got around A LOT.
I suspect that Obama's girlfriends were shown what happened to Bill Clinton's girlfriends when they spoke out- they were destroyed. A friend of mine told me of the Juanita Holloway rape claim years before it went public, and she was basically terrified into silence. (Bimbo eruptions, anyone?)The Dems will stop at nothing, basically. They answer to a higher authority, in their view- their own politician-gods who are above the law. The end justifies the means for these people.
Anon:"His mysterious Caucasian girlfriend, whom we discussed here at iSteve 14 months ago, was in fact Ayers's old flame, Diana Oughton, who perished in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion."
Hey genius...Obama couldn't have dated Oughton -- she died in 1970, Obama was born in 1961.
Please stop spreading misinfo ya GENIUS.
Obama's mysterious white girlfriend never actually existed but is a fictional construct that Ayers invented based on the long-dead Oughton. Think before typing, GENIUS.
"Cute. May I suggest you try 'laura bush run over boyfriend' in Google?"
No, anony-mouse was right; Laura Bush is a special case because of the awful thing that happened. As far as I know, there is very little information out there about any pre-marital girlfriend of a future president since JFK and such characters as Inga Binga, even though at least two post-JFK presidents (LBJ and Clinton) were also prolific womanizers after marriage. There is probably more known about the pre-marital love interests of the nineteenth century presidents.
Hey genius...Obama couldn't have dated Oughton -- she died in 1970, Obama was born in 1961.
Please stop spreading misinfo ya GENIUS.
Bill Ayers is the ghostwriter of Dreams from My Father.
In ghostwriting the book, he decided to add a little romantic flavor to what was [in all likelihood] a mind-numblingly boring & tedious & obtusely pedestrian stack of notes and audio tapes and rough drafts which Obama handed him.
And Ayers just couldn't resist the urge to wax eloquent about his old flame from the glory years.
The really bizarre thing is that Obama [in approving the finished product] signed off on the creation [and publicization & dissemination of the idea] of the fictional Caucasian girlfriend - which, among other things, suggests to me that Obama has never even read the full copy that Ayers sent to the publisher.
It also makes you wonder what Michelle LaVaughn Robinson and Bernardine Dohrn Ohrnstein think of it all.
My guess would be that Michelle probably hasn't read the book either [and isn't aware of the Caucasian girlfriend, much less the fabrication of the Caucasian girlfriend], and Ohrnstein - well God only knows what passes for thinking inside of her crazy mind.
PS: Or maybe the whole episode is some sort of apologia on the part of Ayers to Ohrnstein - maybe he's saying to her, "Yeah, okay, I admit that I had the hots for Diana, but you're my true love, baby."
PPS: On the other hand, you also have to wonder whether Ohrnstein might have rigged the bomb to explode so as to remove Oughton as her competition - I wonder whether Ayers lies in bed at night wondering about that possibility? Or maybe he's the kind of guy who gets the hots for women who are serial killers?
Who knows - absolutely NOTHING would surprise me when it comes to the depravity of this crowd.
but why is Bush's wife so butt ugly? The guy was from a famous family, filthy rich and a natural alpha. He certainly underachieved.
"Butt ugly?" You have some awfully high standards, bro.
Bush doesn't strike me as a natural alpha. To use one columnist's phrase, he had a strange, toadying respect for his elders that was inappropriate to a man at the peak of his executive decision-making abilities. He was also incredibly unpoised. Remember the fumbling references to his good buddy "Brownie (wtf?)" after Katrina? And the Angela Merkel shoulder-rub? Cheney and Rumsfeld were the top dogs in that pack.
the rather familiar by now genre of suburbs/WASP bashing novels
You know, this gets back to the question of whether or not our immigration policy was consciously intended [& coordinated so as] to subvert the WASP institutions and traditions and moral-intellectual foundations of this country.
At this point, there's not a doubt in my mind that the Goldman Sachs/Credit Suisse shenanigans were very carefully orchestrated.
As far as the novel-publishing bidness is concerned, consider Camille Paglia on the question:
Who are you calling a "coot"?
Camille Paglia on Barack Obama, WASPs, Tim Russert, the Doors, Luciana Avedon and more
July 9, 2008
By Camille Paglia
salon.com
...I have been at war with WASPiness since I grew up in upstate New York in the 1950s and early '60s. There is no way to describe the brute social power of the WASP establishment of that period -- the smooth, bland, coded good manners; the hidden past interconnections of families and business associations; the mysterious alliance between chic sororities (overpopulated by blondes) and the most prestigious Presbyterian church in town.
College at the State University of New York at Binghamton in the revolutionary mid-1960s was a delicious relief for me. The counterculture was booming amid a fantasia of new influences from psychedelia, African-American blues, London Mod, and Andy Warhol's glittery Factory. And at my college there were so many dynamic, super-articulate, politically activist, and screamingly funny Jewish students from downstate New York that I felt the world had changed forever...
The intriguing question to me is whether the assault on "the brute social power of the WASP establishment" is undertaken consciously [and whether it is consciously, intentionally coordinated], or whether, from the biological/sociological Darwinist's point of view, the behavior might be programmed into these people [in their genes, or in their culture, or in both] and that, in general, they are not consciously aware of the purpose of their behavior.
But after you have read a passage like what Paglia wrote [above], then it becomes very, very difficult not to imagine that there was [and is] a conscious, intentional coordination of it all.
LONG POST WARNING - in 2 parts (the blogger server refused to accept it in a single part.)
I
Soulmate-searching Anon:
You seem to be missing something very critical -- probably because of your age.
As a bachelor male in his mid-40s, and one who has wasted at least 15 years of his life chasing that "soul sharing" bourgeois ideal, let me tell you that the darned thing is -- how do I put this as bluntly as possible -- effing overrated. Way too overrated.
There comes a time in a man's life when something completely changes in your brain chemistry. All your juvenile and youthful fantasies are shed by the roadside in disdain. That's because you realize that the "woman of your dreams" is actually you: all your pathetic, juvenile insecurities, arrested-development escapisms, your inability to deal with the challenges of reality, all reversed and projected unto a character that simply cannot exist since that female could only be a cyborg. You want the woman of your dreams? You and your old time buddy, your right hand, will have to keep on... effing yourselves.
Instead, you realize that for a man who is not sorry for sporting a pair of cojones between his legs, there is a thrill in being able to dominate a pretty (i.e. healthy, fertile) young member of the unfair sex -- being able to turn all her shit-tests against her, not give an inch during her tantrums, not let a single line of her drama-queenery get to you, etc. -- that just cannot be beaten by any soul-sharing wankery. That pathetic thing lurking at the back of your head, aching for soul-sharing, is a sick monkey denaturalized by Victorianism, Puritanism, Liberalism, etc., that refuses to be weaned from his momma's teats.
--
I recently met a guy, a peasant and a hunter in a village. He is reputed to have killed dozens of bears, boars, various game, etc. He was barely attractive --don't think of "Marlboro man" or anything: He stank like a horse, was himself hairy as a bear, had a big thick mustache with grease and dirt on it, etc. Naturally, being high-T, he had a low, husky voice, barely moved where he sat, and never smiled. We sat around a wooden table before his house for an hour. We exchanged at most fifteen syllables over that period. Then, I had to leave. I thought, "Wow, that's one heck of an alpha male. He must be dating horses or something; human females must be too mushy for him -- like me dating a kitten."
To my surprise, he had two wives: one 43, one 17 (it's illegal by secular laws, but conservative peasant communities still secretly practice it in some rare cases). They were pretty, ripe, and bubbly. You would not believe how they circled around him, tried to please him, and were giddy doing it.
This is NOT about sheer sex. It is about the natural dominance of men over women which is also what makes girls tick, despite all their bullsh*t to the contrary. The common routine of modern-day bourgeois women that they prefer "nice" men is a defence mechanism to screen men they despise. They don't like beta males getting uppity about their shots with them, so they say "be nice, be yourself" which translates: "get out of our faces, stay put, and don't confuse us; we want to pick alpha c*ck easily." At best, by "nice" they mean the niceness of powerful guys who don't have to get ugly since their underlings handle the hairy situations for them -- while they themselves romance women -- or Chuck Norris types who can afford to be nice since it is an *option* for them, not the sole strategy for cozying up to girls. You better get hip to this fact.
Part II
Dump that "soul sharing" idiocy, dude. It is navel-gazing. If at least 10% of the men in the West (or even in places that are only at its outskirts, like mine) were like that hunter, the kind of soul-crushingly depressing, mind-numbingly atrocious story of betrayal that Coetzee wrote about (the movie Steve reviewed recently; Lurie and his daughter) would just not happen. Ever. If it did, the father would just shoot that c*nt with a barely-wavering hand, and feel he has cleansed his lineage from that rotten seed. You in the West call that an "honor killing."
In such a society, you wouldn't have an inner monkey aching for soul sharing; you would get a girl of your grade without much romantic effort since men would be busy doing men's work and girls wouldn't be allowed to endlessly harass them for not paying enough attention to them. And since the inter-male competition would be dialed down significantly, even average betas would have a shot at appearing manly to girls. Now, they recede into their defeatist corver as their brain chemistry becomes addicted to that soul-sharing nonsense as a defense mechanism, and they end up failing to compete with alphas that don't give a fig about such tossery.
In HBD terms, think of it like this: First, the average human female is way prettier than the average human male (i.e. high selectiveness for primarily physical, not mental, attraction which advertises fertility in females). Second, the human sexual drive (especially in males) is way stronger than that of any other species. Inference: if men and women had more in common than primarily physical (reproductive) attraction, women would have been way plainer in looks and men would have been way milder in their sexual drivenness to achieve the required reproductive success for replacement level fertility. Just this should tell you how different men and women are, and what juvenile puffery the new age liberal notion of the allegedly ideal bonding achieved with "soul mates" is. Men and women need healthy MATES, not SOUL MATES, who have the biological fundamentals and the cultural upbringing requisite to fulfill their respective functions in society. All else is gasbaggery.
BTW An old Queen goldie.
--
A confession from an old-fashioned buddy:
"I feel like I'm a dying species. Everything about the way things are happening in human societies today is against my instincts. It's almost like those mountain lions whose habitat has been gradually invaded and overtaken by humans in LA. A raw, creepy, muffled moaning and groaning sound I can hear inside me from time to time: the kind you hear in the wilderness from a wild beast who feels most members of its pack have been hunted down, and its own days may well be numbered.
"Larry Auster would probably call me a 'nihilist' for saying these things. My response would be 'chuck you farley, and the horse you rode in on.' Like most men these days, I too would gladly give up my higher education, 1.5 SD of my IQ, and my urbane ways for 200 ng/dL of more testosterone in my organism."
Have I burst your bubble yet?
JT
"Hey genius...Obama couldn't have dated Oughton -- she died in 1970, Obama was born in 1961.
Please stop spreading misinfo ya GENIUS."
Can you possibly be any more STUPID? The implication was that, since Bill Ayers probably ghosted, or at least edited/expanded upon Obama's memoir, some of the themes and occurences in the book reflect or are adapted from Ayers' experiences and life events, epecially when certain characteristics of a normal life are embarassingly absent from young Obama's.
you're asking good questions, Steve -- just don't expect to find many breadcrumbs (available facts) on this backtrail, it has been swept quite carefully by those expert in plausibility and deniability
the stakes are now global and it's no time for surprises . . . the US executive has been appointed, not elected, the past half-century, and Obie was "brought along" for the last few decades with very specific uses in mind
most of his spook-up took place at Columbia and Harvard, both bastions of frat-occultism . . . approprite enough for an eternally arrested adolescent chosen to lead the planet into the Glorious New Woman Order
not a coincidence that the VP chosen for him authored the gulagic Violence Against Women Act, nor that his dominatrix wife calls herself the Mom In Chief, nor that their best pal and advisor is witchqueen Oprah
very, very little about the "major life events" of this slicktongued sellout was coincidental -- groomed from very early on, Obie was not prepared for the people, the people were conditioned for him
keep digging around Steve, but as stated, don't expect to find many nuggets on pharaoh -- tho there's a little color in the stream, it won't be enough to change the (zombific) american mind about their messiah
Oh for Pete's sake. He was too wimpy for most black girls and probably has issues with white women becuase his mom's poor mothering.
"Hey genius...Obama couldn't have dated Oughton -- she died in 1970, Obama was born in 1961.
Please stop spreading misinfo ya GENIUS."
Oh boy...That comment is so boneheaded, I don't know how to respond..
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
I have found this to be generally true, in my own humble opinion, and most women seem to be of the "small mind" persuasion in respect to this aphorism; however there are exceptions.
The most hilarious thing about this quote is that you are all in here (and in half the posts on this blog) gossiping about people.
JT - that was a bad-ass post.
Let me get this straight- in the book Disgrace the guy's daugter marries the guy who raped her in order to fit in - is that what happens?? This movie is going to make Requiem for a Dream feel like Rudy.
dan in DC
"I have found this to be generally true, in my own humble opinion, and most women seem to be of the "small mind" persuasion in respect to this aphorism; however there are exceptions.* "
That's what they keep telling me, and I keep waiting for those deep conversations about "ideas", ideals, and spirituality, literatuer, art, etc., to happen with men, but somehow I always end up having them mostly with other women.
Before you pat yourself too feelingly on your manly back, remember that millions have been slaughtered on the altar of ego-driven ideas and isms, and surely these shell-shocked ghosts would prefer the true-believers had stuck to debating who could drink the most firewater and piss the furthest.
drink the most firewater and piss the furthest
Sounds like pretty stereotypical WASP behavior to me.
At least the Scots-Irish kind.
"That's what they keep telling me, and I keep waiting for those deep conversations about "ideas", ideals, and spirituality, literatuer, art, etc., to happen with men, but somehow I always end up having them mostly with other women."
Not buying it. I would use stronger language than that, but then Steve might censor my comment.
"Before you pat yourself too feelingly on your manly back, remember that millions have been slaughtered on the altar of ego-driven ideas and isms, and surely these shell-shocked ghosts would prefer the true-believers had stuck to debating who could drink the most firewater and piss the furthest."
If all men thought like women, humanity would have never gotten out of the caves. We probably wouldn't even have stone tools, let alone fire, metals, writing or anything fancier than that. Without mental and emotional sexual dimorphism civilization would have been impossible.
"The most hilarious thing about this quote is that you are all in here (and in half the posts on this blog) gossiping about people."
Hammer......................Nail Head
POW!
"and surely these shell-shocked ghosts would prefer the true-believers had stuck to debating who could drink the most firewater and piss the furthest."
I'm pretty sure Napoleon, Stalin and Ramses did that also.
"I too would gladly give up my higher education, 1.5 SD of my IQ, and my urbane ways for 200 ng/dL of more testosterone in my organism."
You can have both, chief; I suggest you join a popular gym in your hometown, make buddies with the most artificially-looking buff guy there and offer to do his taxes, tutor his kids, fix his computer, or whatever in exchange for a connection to SOME OF THAT RAD STUFF THAT MADE YOU SO DIESEL DUDE!
"there is a thrill in being able to dominate a pretty (i.e. healthy, fertile) young member of the unfair sex -- being able to turn all her shit-tests against her, not give an inch during her tantrums, not let a single line of her drama-queenery get to you, etc."
And I thought that Guinness Stout I drank last night was bitter.
I think the key to the answer here is Michelle Obama. She's not great looking, not a great personality, not outstandingly intelligent. She suggests that Obama is just simply not a ladies' man. This would make sense as he's scrawny, goofy-looking, boring, and had no family or means in his youth.
I think the white girlfriend business was made up. My guess is that he had scattered, awkward, short-term sexual encounters with a few women in college. Not real dating, and nothing that would pass lips into the news or draw in $$ for book deals.
Re Eleanor Mondale, they should
use that story as a recruiting tool for SS.
We are accustomed to politicians being or becoming sexual creatures, especially of Obama's political party. FDR, JFK, LBJ, Clinton, most spectacularly so, Truman and Carter abstaining.
But Obama is not a sexual creature, and does not lust in his heart like the Georgia hearthrob. The last powerful politician so contructed may have been Lenin.
Obama did not become attractive to women until he was a Presidential candidate. He did not choose Michelle; she selected him, and dominates her domain as his mother did.
His white girlfriend was a construction of Diana Oughton...
I think it's surprising that a famously well-educated, upwardly mobile mixed-race black guy would couple with a dark black female, especially since his mother was white. I think Obama reasoned, correctly in my opinion, that his political rise would be hampered in both the white and black communities if he was running around with some beautiful blonde on his arm. Can you imagine what the sistas would think?
I don't think the media had much interest in pursuing Obama's past romantic/sexual relationships, because doing so could have only injured him.
Some men just don't have that much interest in women. Is it really so difficult to believe that a guy might just have no interest in having a girlfriend?
I don't know where this obsession with testosterone and alpha males comes from. Most guys with too much T believe irrationally and flame out fast. The most successful guys tend to be moderate in IQ and T, high in work ethic and efficiency, personable, and otherwise normal.
"That's not what the male-female relationship is or should be about. Women, including those who score high on IQ tests, are bored by any and all abstract ideas."
--------------------------
I am a woman. I have a high IQ. I like discussing abstract ideas. Most of the men I've dated before I got married were not particularly interested in abstract ideas, either.
Anon -- there is no way other than to understand female hypergamy and be the "Big Man" or be celibate. Being yourself is a choice for the latter, if you are not naturally a ladies man.
-------------------------
That is simply not true; plenty of nice, normal men are finding mates and "getting it." But they are getting it from women that you would think unworthy of your wonderful, wonderful self. Women who are a little bit older than what you think you are entitled to, a little bit plumper, shy girls who don't know how to make themselves look flashy,smart girls who are uninterested in fashion, the bar scene and parties.
I wonder why this blog attracts so many unmarried, dateless men who feel qualified to give out relationship advice to other unmarried, dateless men? If your goal is a happy marriage with wife and children, wouldn't it make more sense to seek advice from someone who has been happily married for years and is actually a parent?
"That's what they keep telling me, and I keep waiting for those deep conversations about "ideas", ideals, and spirituality, literatuer, art, etc., to happen with men, but somehow I always end up having them mostly with other women."
"Not buying it. I would use stronger language than that, but then Steve might censor my comment."
ewww.
What do you think I'm selling? My countless conversations with my roommate of many years (twice married hetero?) and my handful of friends and acquaintances? Didn't have much connection with dad, though he was a good guy. Never got the habit of depending on men for intellectual or emotional bonding. It was my mother with whom I had the deep idea conversations. And it went on from there.
Except for my older brother for a while when I was a kid. We both liked sci-fi movies on the late late show.
"If all men thought like women, humanity would have never gotten out of the caves. We probably wouldn't even have stone tools, let alone fire.."
So I've heard. I don't even argue, as it's not worth it--wtf knows who did what a million years ago, though I think women could well have come up with quite a bit on our own and fire was one of them; weaving was another; but who knows for sure? Mechanical advances of complexity, and phsyical manipulation of the phsyical environment on a large scale is of course a mostly male endeavor. That is obvious.
My comment was referring to dangers of "big" ideas when one does not consider the human beings affected by them. Get it? That is part of my point. Ideas are only worth anything when they manifest.
You sound like someone who should probably keep your distance from women.
Not everybody is meant to seek succor or intellectual content from the opposite sex. So keep on keepin' on, far away from females. That'd be best for all concerned.
This thread is like a contest to see who isteve readers hate more, women or black people.
I think that probably almost all of the women who read this site are among the minority of women who are interested in abstract ideas. This is not a typical female trait and typical males find it unattractive. I didn't marry a typical male so it's all good.
"You sound like someone who should probably keep your distance from women. "
You sound like someone from whom men have successfully kept their distance.
"This is not a typical female trait and typical males find it unattractive. "
Most males would find it attractive if it actually existed.
"You sound like someone who should probably keep your distance from women. "
You sound like someone from whom men have successfully kept their distance."
A bit of effort on both sides has gone into it, but oddly enough, here and there they keep on coming into my orbit, however transiently. Still, distance is better for all concerned.
You seem the more bitter about it though.
"Anonymous said...
"This is not a typical female trait and typical males find it unattractive. "
Most males would find it attractive if it actually existed."
Anonymous, you sound like a parody on an old, old broken record. There are plenty of women doing important things and thinking important thoughts. They even exist in the realm of biodiversity research. If you disagree, please reveal the details of your high standards and accomplishments in this area. Except maybe save it for another thread as this one is getting boring and off the subject.
btw, re Obama. IMHO,
Definitely gay-bi. No doubt and there are talking heads out there ready to tell all.
What the hell's the point of being with a girl if you can't share your soul with her?
If you are looking for a soulmate, then it helps to find a girl who believes that you have a soul in the first place - which immediately rules out about 50% [or more] of all college-educated white & asian women in this country.
If I were looking for a soulmate, then I'd spend a lot less time cruising the booths and stools of a bar on Saturday night, and a lot more time cruising the aisles and pews of a church on Sunday morning.
A little off-topic, but one of the nice things about meeting a pre-packaged soulmate is that her father has already put in the 20 or 25 years necessary to teach her the difference between right and wrong, but if you hook up with a nihilist chick and try to make a go of it for the long haul, then in addition to all of the normal & predictable misfortunes and disappointments and setbacks in your lives, you'll also be investing a significant amount of time over the course of several decades trying to wean her off of her nihilism and onto something better, yet there's absolutely no guarantee that, at the end of the day, you'll realize any success in the endeavor [and I'd guess that the odds are very heavily stacked against your achieving any success at all].
PS: The purpose of getting married is to make babies. If the chick isn't interested in making babies [and lots of them], then move on to someone else - she's not your soulmate.
PPS: If you yourself are not interested in making babies [and lots of them], then you don't deserve a soulmate.
PPPS: I'd be very, VERY wary of investing significant amounts of time in chicks who have histories of divorce in their families.
I wonder why this blog attracts so many unmarried, dateless men who feel qualified to give out relationship advice to other unmarried, dateless men?
Two points:
1) Self-selection - real guys with real lives don't have time to post endlessly on internet bulletin boards.
2) Beyond that, though, this blog attracts a weird mixture of traditionalist no-nonsense conservatives and fly-by-night gnxp darwinian nihilists.
Sort of a {Sarah Palin} X {Ayn Rand} demographic.
My experience has been that you are wasting your breath when attempting to engage the nihilists in conversation, but I suppose that it can't hurt to try to lead by example.
MaryJ,
Don't ask for logical thinking from the alpha male theorists. That is an impossible request. Unfortunately they are on every message board (it seems), dispensing their eerily bad advice to their natural audience. Best to just ignore them. You'll be happier and they will feel they've made their point as top dog, whatever that is.
The actual facts of life about our President would be of intense interest to state security organs in nations like Isreal, China, Iran, Russia, etc. On this account alone, our own security apparatus would be remiss not to have a detailed list of the persons who have interacted with the President in any significant way to any significant extent. Would the FOIA permit access to redacted information (absent content of interviews and names ) as to month by month, the number of interviews conducted by agencies such as FBI/ Secret Service/ IRS / AFT
the length of interview time with each interviewee. There seem to be far too few persons overtly giving information about the President that surfaces in bios, media, etc.
Rumors--Chicago--gay relationships
It certainly is possible for bright and ambitious people to utilize easily mastered disguise and deception features that permit them to engage in endless casual sex without their real identities ever being revealed. A guy who can't quite smoking cigarettes probably has no simple toggle switch control of his sex urges.
The Clinton staff certainly would have had lots and lots of background information gathered and collated regarding now President Obama. Reportedly, he was known "inside" this research effort as "Obambi"
There seem to be far too few persons overtly giving information about the President that surfaces in bios, media, etc.
It's surfaced. It's all there on the internet and in several books. The sources are credible as far as I am concerned, but then, who am I? One thing I absolutely know, Soros and the MSM will not do my thinking for me.
Wake up people. There's no excuse these days for being duped--people in this country are like the Soviets used to be. They believe what their "government" and their "free" press tell them. BO was put in office by an incredibly controlled media and an incredibly controlled media keeps him there for the time being.
I knew a year ago that Ayres wrote that book. Knew it. But on this blog--on noooo. Too "out there" and "conspiracy" like. I knew BO was an intellectual empty box and the didactically "Marxist" stuff was Ayres in all his pyschosexual quirks. Now it's pretty much confirmed.
It's all there. You just have to get past the Obots, many of whom visit here frequently.
This thread is like a contest to see who isteve readers hate more, women or black people.
It's a complete train wreck.
Although it is funny to see the nutcases come out once in a while.
"And I thought that Guinness Stout I drank last night was bitter."
Nope. As you said yourself it was a stout (or porter), a bitter is a pale ale.
Americans....
Too few person giving information... I suppose the really firm way to review all this is to just create "pages" for each day of his life--where/ who/ what--and see how much remains blank from canvassing what is now in print or otherwise known. Of keen use might be a propinquity "map"--geographical as re neighbors; social as re classmates and elective groups; kinship; organizational, etc These are necessarily collective undertakings that the Internet alone could make feasible. Verifying input would be an obvious, but not insuperable, problem. A sort of "ecology" of ancestral traits known to have significant heritability would be interesting, allowing as how the genetic dice throw would render much of this ecology irrelevant; much of it quite relevant. In this respect, it is not exactly reassuring to contemplate the disconnected "verbal engineering" proclivities of his father and of his maternal grandfather...
Post a Comment