In light of the events in Kiev, it's worth looking back on the ignominious failure of Occupy Wall Street, which was restricted to an unstrategic small park rather than, say, Times Square, and was eventually broken up by Mayor Bloomberg's cops with little fuss.
Here's the original ad in Adbusters that set off Occupy Wall Street in 2011. While enormously successful initially, the incompatible elements of the ad foreshadowed Occupy Wall Street's ultimate impotence.
Notice in the background the promise of street rioting: to the right, a hooded brawler brandishing a table leg as a club, to the left what appear to be riot cops grappling with fighters. The stout lads who carried off the coup in Kiev would find this imagery galvanizing.
On the other hand, the centerpiece is an unintentionally comic depiction of superior feminine cultural refinement rising above masculine capitalism.
Uh ... the reason New York is the ballet capital of America is because of all the money generated by Wall Street. So, a struggle promising street fighting over who has better aesthetic taste -- the people who make the money made on Wall Street or the people who spend the money made on Wall Street -- wasn't ever really going to go anywhere. In the battle between the ballerinas and the Masters of the Universe, there will never be a final victor because there's way too much fraternizing with the enemy.
And the text "What is our one demand?" attracted process-oriented protesters whose endless yakking about what our one demand should be bored and repelled the left hooligans who might have created a few iconic martyrs by provoking the cops into over-reaction.
And the text "What is our one demand?" attracted process-oriented protesters whose endless yakking about what our one demand should be bored and repelled the left hooligans who might have created a few iconic martyrs by provoking the cops into over-reaction.
(By the way, Arturo di Modica's Charging Bull sculpture is probably the most popular piece of guerilla street art of the last generation: the sculptor secretly plopped it down in front of the New York Stock Exchange late one night in 1989. The authorities initially hauled it off, but popular opinion demanded it be made permanent. Money-loving Chinese tourists have developed the tradition of rubbing its now shiny testicles for good luck.)
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116 comments:
http://qz.com/180511/ukraine-unrest-stems-from-two-decades-of-squandered-post-soviet-independence/
Yup...
Or maybe the failure of OWS has more to do with the fact that average income in the United States is twelve times at $50,000 versus $3,900 in the Ukraine. Or that the United States ranks 19th in corruption while Ukraine ranks 144th. Or that the US has a highly fair legal system, strongly respects people's rights and allows any citizen to say whatever's on their mind.
While there may be faults with the US government, comparing America to Ukraine is like comparing a case of the common cold with full blown ebola. People on the Alt-Right like to be edgy by saying just how awful the present-day Western governments are, but it's important to remember that we're living in pretty much the wealthiest, most peaceful, freest and most fair time and place in human history.
Yes, yes I get it, evil "banksters", multiculturalism, wage-suppressing illegals, etc. But don't pretend like Americans are oppressed enough to justify violent revolution. That's just delusional.
The Occutards were nothing but a bunch of neo-Marxists. That's why they failed.
"The Occutards were nothing but a bunch of neo-Marxists. That's why they failed."
It wasn't about 1% vs 99% but about 1% vs the children of the 10%.
Americans today are more oppressed than the Americans who actually did start a successful revolution.
People on the Alt-Right like to be edgy by saying just how awful the present-day Western governments are, but it's important to remember that we're living in pretty much the wealthiest, most peaceful, freest and most fair time and place in human history.
Yes, yes I get it, evil "banksters", multiculturalism, wage-suppressing illegals, etc. But don't pretend like Americans are oppressed enough to justify violent revolution. That's just delusional.
Keep in mind we are not comparing the USA to the Ukraine, Russia or other places around the world. Admittedly the USA is freer. Rather we are comparing the USA of today to the USA of past. And in that respect we feel that we have lost freedom.
The average hipster couple I meet organizes its life around this principal...
Male partner works at a hard skill job doing the "dirty work" of making a living.
Female partner works at a world saving, idealistic job at a non-profit.
That pic from Occupy captures the innate vacuity of that arrangement.
Their manifesto and my reactions:
http://countenance.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/occutard-manifesto/
One thing I didn't say then that should be obvious now is that you can't very well wage a political war against the top 1% then turn right around and give them what they want, that is, amnesty and open borders and unlimited immigration.
The 'occupy' crowd didn't actually want anything, other than to narcissistically preen their own sense of moral righteousness.
In that sense, I suppose they got what they wanted.
There's nothing especially "masculine" about capitalism. I suppose you could say that most successful capitalists are men, but then, most successful artists are men as well.
http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2014/02/who-is-julie-burchill.html
Ho
Nigel Farage isn't going to win an election, sadly, so he should just organize an anti-EU maidan in Westminster, demanding an immediate referendum.
I work at 39 Broadway, half a block from the bull. That thing is swarming with tourists almost all the time. I've noticed more Indians than Chinese. I think they might think it's Nandi...
OWS was a phony operation out of 2 Nevins Street in Brooklyn ( Acorn/WFP, etc.) and 1199 up on 43rd Street. The obvious tipoff was that in this huge protest against American capitalism, it was almost impossible to find a sign even mildly critical of Obama.
"The ignominious failure of Occupy Wall Street"
I don't see this in terms of success or failure. It was an expression of anger and grief, and a change to show you care, etc.
It wasn't like any of those cats were coming up with alternative financial legislation more in tune with the People's needs. That'd be boring.
You need people actually trying to change policy, then implementing it, then improving it, to make real change.
In this regard, the Occupy Wall Street crowd can learn from the Marijana legalizers. Know your goal. Take small concrete steps. Establish new conventions. Add time. And you get legalized Marijuana.
Pretending to be a revolutionary is fun, but that's all it's going to be when its like OWS.
The Ukes were prepared to die, the occutards weren't.
Americans today are more oppressed than the Americans who actually did start a successful revolution.
People are willing to put up with far more if locals are in charge. If George III had been an American king we'd probably still have a monarchy.
What struck me about OWS was that ill-kempt Lefty protestors were taking their campaign right into the beating heart of, well, uh, middle-class Lefty neighborhoods: downtown Manhattan, which votes about 70% Democratic, downtown Washington DC, which votes about 90% Democratic and, of course, college campuses.
This was basically a revolt of kids against the parents who taught them politics but who liked to watch British TV rather than sleep outside at night.
"(By the way, Arturo di Modica's Charging Bull sculpture is probably the most popular piece of guerilla street art of the last generation: the sculptor secretly plopped it down in front of the New York Stock Exchange late one night in 1989. The authorities initially hauled it off, but popular opinion demanded it be made permanent. Money-loving Chinese tourists have developed the tradition of rubbing its now shiny testicles for good luck.)"
Evidence, I should think, of the public's hunger for representational art; give them something that at least resembles traditional civic sculpture, and they will respond.
I am not sure how you got the idea in your head that the Royal Ulster Constabulary was militarily defeated by the Irish Republican Army. It was not.
What a weird poster that is. What the hell is that ballerina even doing there? I'm guessing some artsy fatsy individual just likes the ballet.
OWS failed because of its open hatred of the White Working Class...OWS advocated importing unlimted numbers of nonwhite scab labor for billionaire Mark Zuckerberg types
Specifically,in the OWS manifesto it is stated that labor scarcities are very bad thing. This could have been written by Jack Welch. Labor "activist" Noam Chomsky gave his full blessing to this part of the OWS manifesto...as did Alan Greenspan.
Bill Blizzard and his Men
I suppose you could say that most successful capitalists are men, but then, most successful artists are men as well.
Most successful ballerinas are not men.
People are willing to put up with far more if locals are in charge.
And who counts as local? For the residents of Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Upper Canada, and even New York, Lord North and George III were local enough.
Doesn't matter. There is an Occupy "retrospective" book out now (with lots of respectful reviews) and an Occupy movie to follow. And what actually broke up the demonstration was the onset of (mild, NYC) winter. Yet by the time our cultural overlords are through tampering with the evidence they'll have us believing that after braving the coldest winter on record the Occupiers stormed the police barricades through machine-gun fire, led by their fierce-but-sensitive street poet leader (Kanye West).
Ukrainians who? You mean the sadistic badgoys from Taken 4? Atlas Shrugged is self-financed and looks like a student film, yet the world historical "Battle in Seattle" (you know those late 90's protests which forced Clinton to, ummm...) got the full A-list treatment and was a worthy loss-leader for Hollywood in controlling our national memory.
Occupy Wall Street was hatched in the heads of bored trust fund kids...children of the one percent...while having lunch at THE DOCK in Sag Harbor... I am originally from Sag Harbor.
Bill Blizzard and his Men
Occupy the kitchen,
liberate the sink… --Kinky Friedman
Somewhat OT, Gates Foundation launches 11 million kid database detailing every academic and personal bit of data it can find.
Now, you might wonder WHY the Gates Foundation wants all that data standardized across different states. I don't -- data is the new gold and getting all that data down to the most atomic level of kids (and their parents) is worth a lot of money. LOTS. Which can convert to lots and lots and lots of money to the non-taxable, non-profit run by the Gates Family. Did I mention, free of taxes?
Or, to put it succinctly- any chance of Occupy solidarity was doomed by their intersectionality.
No politician capitalized on OWS on the left which shows that the avenues to power for the ambitious and left leaning are too numerous and well paying.
"Keep in mind we are not comparing the USA to the Ukraine, Russia or other places around the world. Admittedly the USA is freer. Rather we are comparing the USA of today to the USA of past. And in that respect we feel that we have lost freedom."
I agree, but the implicit point of Steve's post was that the difference between OWS and Ukraine's revolution was the dedication of the protestors. (Or their closeness to the people they were protesting). While that may be true, it's largely irrelevant, the more salient feature is that the United States is in a much better position.
The calculus of whether to support revolution is one of risk-reward. If things go right you clean out a corrupt regime and reform bad things that the government is doing. If things go wrong things can spiral into chaotic violence and poverty.
Ukraine's poor and corrupt enough that things could get a lot better, and although they could get somewhat worse it doesn't have very far to fall. In contrast that same risk-reward balance doesn't work in the United States.
That's the real reason violent revolution, or even large-scale violent-implicit protest movements like OWS, will never gain traction in the US. Unless things get much much worse than their current condition.
No post or comment on Harold Ramis's death?
Occupy Oakland was a little more spirited.
I visited the NY protest while on vacation. As I was making my way past the police and cameramen toward the main area, some little hippie girl told me I looked angry and should smile (I just have an angry looking face, always have). I guess that's kinda your point in a nutshell, right? People there were supposed to be angry! Anyway the was a lot of smiling and drumming to be found, and I took off before long.
I spent the entire next day at the Met, enjoying the spillover benefits of concentrated wealth.
Most successful ballerinas are not men.
Neither are most successful mid-wives. Did you have anything remotely resembling a point?
"the centerpiece is an unintentionally comic depiction of superior feminine cultural refinement rising above masculine capitalism."
Cultural refinement is not feminine, and capitalism is not masculine.
Maybe the protest failed because no one had any idea what they were supposed to be protesting. I mean, that poster's kinda cool, but I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. At first glance, I'd say the bull is supporting the ballerina; I don't see that he's the bad guy at all.
I could totally see a Wall Street firm using that picture (sans the background rioters) in their logo to represent something like "creativity supported by strength."
The spirit of "Liberty" has been given a female form for thousands of years, from Libertas, the Roman goddess of liberty, down to "Lady Liberty" in New York harbor. Feel free to tell the ancient Romans that they just weren't masculine enough.
One difference between the two places are the opposite effects of marijuana and alcohol.
Alcohol gives added courage.
Marijuana gives... it gives... yeah, um.
""""In the battle between the ballerinas and the Masters of the Universe, there will never be a final victor because there's way too much fraternizing with the enemy."""""
And long live the fraternizing.
"""the text "What is our one demand?" attracted process-oriented protesters whose endless yakking about what our one demand should be bored and repelled the left hooligans who might have created a few iconic martyrs by provoking the cops into over-reaction.""""
So THAT'S how the status quo can prevail in conflicts with protests and movements. Just put a bunch of process-oriented intellectuals in charge of leading the movement. They'll stymie and gridlock the entire process until most either give up and go home or else splinter off into various factions.
Awesome.
Seriously, not to be too Turkish conspiratorial about it all, but always had an inclination that the entire Occupy movement based in part on the timing of the inception (mid '11) was little more a direct "indirect" arm of Obama's pre-relection campaign.
After all, notice that seldom ever was Obama PERSONALLY held up to blame for the lion's share of the problems as seen in eyes of Occupiers. It was always Wall Street that bore the brunt of the blame, and, on rare occasions, sometimes Congress in general.
But finger pointing at Obama himself as the main culprit? NEVER.
Hence, the Turkish conspiracies. And he DID get re-elected didn't he? And we really don't hear much anymore about Occupy Wall Street.
DO we?
QED
Ouch! I'm getting whip-lash. So now all of a sudden we're supposed to admire Wall Street banksters? And we've always been at war with East-Asia?
The OWS idiots may indeed have been idiots, but that doesn't make the capitalists admirable.
Male partner works at a hard skill job doing the "dirty work" of making a living.
Female partner works at a world saving, idealistic job at a non-profit.
That pic from Occupy captures the innate vacuity of that arrangement.
As did Jon Gutfrend's marrriages?
Jon Gutfrend married an anti-war protester and then traded her in for a better looking anti-Reagan one.
He also got the top job at Solomon Brothers by assuring that he unlike his competitor would keep the company a partnership.
When he got the top job he immediately put his rival's plan for turning the partnership into a cmpany into action.
Ibn Khaldun would have said OWS lacked Asabiyyah, so they should have recruited inland tribes. Unfortunately the National Guard got to the inland tribes first and promised them Veterans Benefits, which might not materialize.
Now if a foreign power handed out rocket propelled grenades and AKs things might have been different.
OWS was a vacation for rich white kids who wanted to pretend to be activists. They got to play their game for a while, then they went home.
The End.
Mugabe won re election didn't he?
That was the whole point of OWS
The whole Occupy charade wasn't really about attacking Wall Street, it about protecting it by diverting attention from Wall Street to wealthy people in general.
The whole anti-corporate rhetoric is likewise designed to divert attention from the parasitical financial community, which is actually responsible for these problems.
I remember talking to an Occupy Wall Street supporter who told me that when he says he wants to take down "the man", he doesn't mean he wants to take down Barack Obama. Because in his eyes, the fact that Obama is Black and a Democrat it automatically disqualifies him from being "the man".
When he says he wants to take down "the man", he means he wants to take down Tea Party White Republican males in Congress who he believes are 100 percent responsible for anything that goes wrong in America.
He gives Barack Obama and the Democrats a pass. In his eyes there is not a single corrupt bone in their bodies.
Off topic, but on Steve's favorite topic.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/02/religious-book-saves-bus-drivers-life-from-gunshots/
Occupy Wall Street failed because liberals HAVE already occupied Wall Street a long time ago.
Most people on Wall Street support NAM immigration, the green environmentalists, atheism/skepticism, feminism, NSA spying, "military abroad to incite democratic revolutions in foreign countries" and whatnot.
Occupy Wall Street failed because they are in bed with their enemies. Scratch that, they ARE "the man".
A person cannot fight against himself unless he is suicidal and wants to die. That's why OWS failed.
So when can we resume our regular scheduled programming of Fisching, Chuing, and Dinking for Fistiving?
It was impossible to take Occupy seriously due to the ridiculous procedural restraints it put on itself, like the crowd microphone and dweeby hand signals. Even a liberal stalwart like Colbert couldn't resist mocking them.
One of the theatrical highlights of the Occupy movement was when it humiliated civil rights icon Rep. John Lewis, who takes himself way too seriously anyway.
OWS would have served a purpose if it focused its attention on one issue: getting some of the major financial malefactors prosecuted. Instead, typical of every left-wing movement, it attracted the whole menagerie of angry feminists, LGBTs, open borders fanatics, peace demonstrators, pot legalization advocates, scary homeless people, etc., which diffused all its energy and made it farcical.
Here's another thing that always mystified me about the Occutards.
They wanted to "Occupy" the places that left wingers already control. Big cities and college campi.
Off topic, but of much interest to the iSteve community. This weeks edition of the BBC podcast In Our Time, covers the subject of "Social Darwinism". Topics covered include Galton and eugenics.
Social Darwinism
One of the things that struck me about OWS is that it didn't scare anyone. It annoyed and inconvenienced people who had to work in the area, but no one seemed to regard it as a serious threat. The major media embraced it enthusiastically, as did the Democrat Party, which saw in it kindred spirits, or at least easily co-opted ones.
No, the boogeyman was and remains the Tea Party. It is hated and feared by Democrats and Establishment Republicans alike. If I were a left-wing radical I would find that irksome, knowing that it is my side that is regarded as basically aligned with the elite agenda.
"Now if a foreign power handed out rocket propelled grenades and AKs things might have been different."
Those OWS folk don't know one end of a rifle from the other.
If Occupy Wall Street was its own country, they would be Whiter than The United States.
81 percent of Occupy Wall Street is made up of Non Hispanic Whites.
While the U.S as a whole is down to 63 percent Non Hispanic Whites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street#Protester_demographics
The demographic of Occupy Wall Street is as White as the demographic of Americans who consume a Vegan diet and watch HBO's "Girls".
Steve have you seen this debate on whether there is a college bubble? It has Charles Murray, Peter Thiel and Rahm Emanuel in the audience.
http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/550-too-many-kids-go-to-college-our-first-debate-in-chicago
"If I were a left-wing radical I would find that irksome, knowing that it is my side that is regarded as basically aligned with the elite agenda."
There are no left wing radicals.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/criticwire/film-criticism-state-of-the-art
Having rich parents is cool.
As a former Episcopalian it was amusing to watch the extremely PC presiding bishop(ess) praise OWS while the corporation of Trinity,Wall Street maneuvered to clear the idiots out of each of their encampments, all on Trinity's various properties around lower Manhattan. If you want to observe a case study of our country's cultural elite slide into decadence and irrelevance you can't do better than watching my beloved church.
Let us see in 15 or 20 years how many people in charge of something said they participated in an Occupy Wall Street event, or wish they could have.
My best quess is that we are just at the beginning of an era of mass social unrest in the US.
Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are alike in many ways. One way they are not alike is that the Republican Party and its some of its biggest financial supporters largely co-opted the Tea Party. Give Occupy Wall St credit for maintaining its independence. Now of course the lasc of alliances also led to limited effectiveness, at least in the short term.
But the idea of the "99%" is probably priceless.
Aren't most of the people who read and comment here mad as hell? Then appreciate the other people and groups who are too, even if you don't agree with them.
anonymous said:
the Occupy Wall Street crowd can learn from the Marijana legalizers. Know your goal. Take small concrete steps. Establish new conventions. Add time. And you get legalized Marijuana.
I'm not sure which marijuana legalization efforts you're talking about, but if you mean medical marijuana then you're wrong.
Medical marijuana is an unabashed loophole, not any form of legalization. It creates a situation where anyone supporting marijuana legalization--even if, like me, they don't smoke it--will likely be seen as having ulterior motives and no possibility of credibility or integrity.
This is true in spite of the fact that marijuana prohibition is actually a Leftist/Neocon project.
Medical marijuana may lead to more cultural permissiveness, but it will eventually also lead to more legal restrictiveness, as the definition of "legitimate medical need" is tightened. Legal restrictiveness with cultural permissiveness is the worst possible combination.
The movement that OWS could really learn from is the Gay Rights movement. In maybe a quarter century, respectable mainstream discourse has gone from being able to call homosexuality a public health hazard to people being fired for stating a personal distaste for sodomy.
Notes like this make your blog worth reading. The Occupy camping in the park was, I think, an imitation of that summer's successful camping in Tel Aviv. The Israeli protest was very successful, the price of dairy products fell immediately and the dairy monopoly was punished (by the antimonopoly agency, that suddenly woke up). There was a ferocious competition who will be the spokesman of the protest, and a very photogenic girl won and was immediately co-opted by the Establishment and is now Member of the Knesset (our Congress). These protests are schools of future political leaders, and in Kiyev's protest will surely generate its own crop of leaders. Keep watching.
"""""Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party are alike in many ways."""""""
Now that's a lie. The only concrete thing they both have in common is that both sides are mostly white. Aside from that, they are nothing alike in outlook or in ideological goals.
If anything, ironically perhaps, the Tea Party is closer to the white working man and their ordinary goals in life. (e.g. basic needs met, job security, pension, etc) The Occupy movement was elitist in outlook and in organization. Its almost as if they were the offspring of the 60s Radicals who protested for various leftwing goals of the day. Also, it is worth noting than many former 60s protesters did show up to protest at the Occupy mvt. as well.
"""One way they are not alike is that the Republican Party and its some of its biggest financial supporters largely co-opted the Tea Party."""""
That is because the mainstream GOP largely hates the Tea Partiers and many of their stated goals. Something to be dealt with, squashed, stepped on like an annoying housefly, and/or ignored via stonewalling.
""""Give Occupy Wall St credit for maintaining its independence.""""""
WHAT independence? Perhaps a better word is incompetence. Had they been better organized they would be mainstream Democrats. Had they been further organized they would have been Democratic operatives.
Besides, most of the Occupiers issues and pet peeves are already the goals of mainstream democrats and have been a part of the Party's platform goals for several years if not decades.
"""""Aren't most of the people who read and comment here mad as hell?""""""
If you mean that we're mad that the US didn't lead the medal count at Sochi, or that the UCLA Bruins may not qualify for this years NCAA March Madness tournament, then you're absolutely---oh, that's not what you were talking about???
About what, exactly? Clearly you don't or haven't read this site for very long since various issues are dissected and discussed quite rationally. You'd be hard put to find any here who'd join a protest even a peaceful one at that. The person could be found, but you'd have to long and hard to find one out in the streets for some bogus "working man" issue.
Yeah, some are 'mad as hell' that time is being wasted on bogus melodramatic hissy fits such as these which in the final analysis, accomplish little and next to nothing.
""""Then appreciate the other people and groups who are too, even if you don't agree with them.""""
Ok. What IS this ----ery? What IS this?
WHO has been going after the Occupiers?
Answer: NO ONE
The young ones used this experience to pad their resume. The older ones used this experience to recapture some lost 60s glory days.
But come now, who are we kidding? In the end, the only person that this entire...........piece of melodrama served to benefit directly was............Barack Obama.
So in that sense, the OWS agenda was fully served. Their leader was elected.
There is or was a bull like that on the Merrill Lynch campus in Jacksonville, Florida. The pizzle and balls on that monster were shiny from rubbing, with no Chinese around.
After hours, some female employees would take their cameras out there and... well, you can guess the rest.
People will be people.
In maybe a quarter century, respectable mainstream discourse has gone from being able to call homosexuality a public health hazard to people being fired for stating a personal distaste for sodomy.
A triumph of cultural marxism. Like several other issues, the only acceptable attitude is one of hearty enthusiasm. One is not allowed to have a negative pov, much less do anything about it. Funnily enough Monty Python had a sketch which predicted this state of affairs.
OWS was so left liberal and post modern, they had no leaders and no actual objectives, hence it's no wonder they didn't achieve anything.
Western Green parties are starting to go down this route with their tendency to have two leaders instead of the usual one.
What do we want - we don't know!
When do we want it - we're not sure!
"Medical marijuana may lead to more cultural permissiveness, but it will eventually also lead to more legal restrictiveness, as the definition of "legitimate medical need" is tightened. Legal restrictiveness with cultural permissiveness is the worst possible combination..."
What I was getting at was that if, IMHO, Medical MJ in Cali hadn't happened, legalized recreation in Colorado and Washington wouldn't have happened.
I can't prove it, but I can tell you legal restrictiveness when way down in Colorado. Least from what I saw. And people said, oh well, lets end this farce.
Anyway, the point about the gay movement I agree with. They got what they wanted. Took decades. But they did win.
OWS failed because it had no actual popular support. The usual Left-lib-rad members & components of the ruling class paid OWS lip service, but nothing else, so OWS also was bereft of support from the top of the left-lib pecking order. The middle class and recently dispossessed members of the middle class despised OWS - but this is not new, as Leftists, liberals, and radicals had long ago established their bitter contempt for and hatred of the middle class. So the OWSers prating on about "the 99%" was simply disingenuous, as the OWSers are in fact elitists who despise the middle class (the bourgeoisie), despise the very 99% for whom they mendaciously claimed to speak.
Atop all that, with their typical contempt for middle class industriousness and other "bourgeois" values the OWSers failed in logistics - they organized no substantial, no credible means to house and feed themselves - instead they resorted to appeals for charity. They also failed to police themselves, mostly in their failure to keep bums, winos, druggies, opportunists, criminals, and other parasites away from their ramshackle encampments. The OWSers didn't have one tenth of the logistical smarts, discipline, or know-how of the 1930's Veterans Bonus Army, let alone of the thoroughly organized, prepared, deeply committed, and implacably determined rebels in the Ukraine.
The calculus of whether to support revolution is one of risk-reward. If things go right you clean out a corrupt regime and reform bad things that the government is doing. If things go wrong things can spiral into chaotic violence and poverty.
Ukraine's poor and corrupt enough that things could get a lot better, and although they could get somewhat worse it doesn't have very far to fall. In contrast that same risk-reward balance doesn't work in the United States.
That is true. But there is something else that must be factored into the calculus for the USA. Since we have become increasingly diverse, and there is no clear delineation as to where to draw new boundaries, what's the point of a revolution? Why do I want to fight when I no longer live in a nation, but rather a giant flea market? In the Ukraine they can split along ethnic lines. In other nations the rebels can take confidence that their efforts will help their posterity. But in the USA, what's the point? It's not like I want to risk my life for North Mexico.
Anonymous (2/24/14, 2:54 PM) wrote,
"OWS was a phony operation out of 2 Nevins Street in Brooklyn ( Acorn/WFP, etc.) and 1199 up on 43rd Street. The obvious tipoff was that in this huge protest against American capitalism, it was almost impossible to find a sign even mildly critical of Obama."
If Occupy Wall Street hadn't been so grimy and hygienically-challenged, you would have been able to see David Axelrod's fingerprints all over it.
Axelrod is the father of "Astro Turfing" (i.e., creating fake grass roots movements), and the entire Occupy movement is really easy to understand if you run Occam's razor over it once or twice ... or maybe more, since a lot of those earthy Occupy chicks had thicker body hair than Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
As far back as 2010, the Obama campaign knew that Mitt Romney was going to be the Republican nominee in 2012. The Gingrich-Herman Cain-Michelle Bachman-Donald Trump three ring circus notwithstanding, everybody in Washington knew that it was Mitt's Turn in 2012, and that Romney's sales pitch was going to be that he'd been a phenomenally successful turnaround artist in business who could fix the country's moribund economy.
Obama's glaring weaknesses were the bad economy and his questionable executive-level leadership, while Romney's great strengths were his financial acumen, business success and business/Olympic/gubernatorial leadership. And the Obama people knew that many middle class white voters had soured on Obama and were thought to be potentially receptive to Romney's anticipated "turnaround specialist" messaging.
So Axelrod and the Obama campaign needed to take Romney's knees out, rob him of his core message, and turn his great strengths into weaknesses that would weight his campaign down, rather than propel it into contention. Plus, they knew that given Romney's staid, button-down, 1950s TV dad persona, his campaign would be all about messaging, and not the candidate's personality -- which, thus, made it that much more important to take away Romney's message.
With that, they began to frame Romney, who'd made his fortune in private equity up in Boston, and who'd never worked on Wall Street, as a "rich Wall Street fat cat". And then Occupy Wall Street popped up just about a year out from the 2012 election -- just long enough to gain traction, garner headlines and move the public's consciousness with their message of the 1% oppressing the 99%.
It's really no accident that the Occupy activists were never critical of Obama -- despite all his sweetheart deals with real big business tycoons and actual Wall St. "fat cats" -- or that the "movement", such as it was, completely disappeared after the November 2012 election.
Did the make book on that in 'Vegas? I would've taken the under for sure - not only did they not win, they didn't score many points.
Speaking of David Axelrod and "Astro Turf," for years, Mr. Axelrod has run a firm in Chicago, ASK Public Strategies, that specializes in creating fake grass roots support for projects/big deals that clients are having trouble selling to the public (he was supposed to divest himself when he went to the White House in 2009, but somehow he got around the laws, stayed control of his firm, and had business dealings with the firm's clients while in the White House).
When a large railroad (there isn't any other kind these days) started getting major heat from "community leaders" and the media for their plan to significantly increase tank car and intermodal traffic through some predominantly black south suburbs of Chicago, they hired Mr. Axelrod's firm to make all the problems go away.
Prior to hiring ASK, the dominant narrative had been that the big, fat cat railroad wanted to stick all that new railroad traffic with those unsafe/Earth-unfriendly/unsustainable tank cars and their environmentally toxic and combustible contents in the black community just because they were racist and wanted to stick it to black folks.
But then Axelrod's crew came in and suddenly, community hearings were besieged by legions of black folks protesting in favor of the railroad and the proposed increased tank/intermodal traffic.
So it went through, and everybody was happy -- including the media and the people in the "community" who'd previously been up in arms against the railroad.
Full disclosure: My family has been in the railroad and banking industries in Chicago for ages (even though the family's home base is in the South), and the railroad that hired David Axelrod's firm has been a longtime client of ours.
Plus, out of college, I was involved in Illinois politics, and briefly moved into corporate/government relations work. There, I crossed paths with some of the people who would later go onto assist Mr. Axelrod at his firm and elsewhere. I also learned an awful lot about Chicago and politics and clout.
BTW, Axelrod and David Plouffe also run a political consulting firm called AKPD Message and Media. Among AKPD's past clients is former Ukranian president Yulia Tymoshenko, who before being imprisoned, lost the presidency in 2010 to the now-deposed-and-in-hiding Viktor Yanukovych (a.k.a., the most evil, despotic tyrant in the world for the moment).
As luck would have it, the interim president sprang Ms. Tymoshenko out of prison on Saturday, and she's free to run in the upcoming impromptu election.
So it's all about AKPD Message and Media being able to bill more in 2014?
Makes sense ...
"So it's all about AKPD Message and Media being able to bill more in 2014?
Makes sense ..."
Haha. A side benefit, at least.
There's already talk about her running. Have to see if Vicki Nuland and co. start pushing for her.
I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy, because I think OWS did a good job of promoting the concept of "the one percent," attracting more news coverage of the financial world's misbehavior than it was otherwise getting, and generally creating more discussion and awareness of Wall Street and D.C. than was otherwise happening. That's pretty good! Y'all seem absurdly critical to me. What would OWS have needed to do to qualify as a success in your eyes? Plus:maybe OWS would have done even better if, instead of snarking at it, you'd gone out and joined some of the marches. What other group was out in the streets making big noise? Sheesh, it's so easy to be picky ...
If you think OWS could have been more of a physical threat than it was, well maybe that's so. But maybe also you weren't there experiencing what it's like when a modern American big city wants to make sure a protest movement doesn't get out of hand. The numbers of cops, cruisers and choppers hemming the protestors in was reallly enormous, and IMHO 'way out of proportion (I spent a few days marching and protesting with OWS.) The Ukrainean protestors are no doubt ten times tougher than the OWS crowd, but the American establishment's police, budget and firepower are about a zillion times more powerful and effective than the Ukrainean government's.
Excellent points and great delivery, Ray Sawhill.
Also some of the people from Occupy Wall St did some great work in New York City neighborhoods for Sandy relief and cleanup. It was not just them, they got lots of local people together and managed to pull in and distribute a lot of assistance in the early days.
Believe it or not, they were organized and effective.
I think many are unaware of that. Still, I have no illustions that Occupy Wall St itself is going to develop mass appeal and bring about big changes itself. It is a forerunner group.
The group I am hoping for and waiting for hasn't been formed yet. It may take a couple more tries. But I think it will happen. It's hard when so many pepole don't see the common problems they have, they only see the differences.
"but it's important to remember that we're living in pretty much the wealthiest, most peaceful, freest and most fair time and place in human history."
Funnily enough that exactly the same argument the old colonials used to ask the locals not to try get rid of colonial rule. Even the whole "you have more freedom now" bullshit argument was used (and in some way true), in end the problem was none of those arguments work when people feel they are ruled by strangers that they feel no attachment to.
One of the interesting things about all these neocon funded color revolutions over the last few years is how they've figured out the importance of seizing strategic real estate that the authorities really don't want occupied as that increases the odds of an over-reaction - and strategic in this sense very much includes good aerial views for the media .
DR
"it's important to remember that we're living in pretty much the wealthiest, most peaceful, freest and most fair time and place in human history."
Over the last sixty years the vast majority of the people i come from have been violently ethnically cleansed from their homes without anyone outside those areas having the faintest idea it was happening. In fact about 98% of the people who live outside those areas believe the vast majority of the violence was the other way round.
Media control and the psychology of the Big Lie is incredibly powerful. Nowadays you can hide gulags right out in the open.
>the Tea Party is closer to the white working man and their ordinary goals in life. (e.g. basic needs met, job security, pension, etc)<
I thought "basic needs met, job security, pension" were socialism. Maybe I've been listening to the wrong Tea Partiers.
So tell me how the Teas are going to help with basic needs, job security, and pensions. Wait, I know: if we get rid of unions, government, taxes, law, then the common person will enter the land of milk and honey - just like in Bangladesh - because the purpose of The Market (praise be Its name) is to take care of people. We need to give up more to the rich so that they will have more to give to us, right?
"I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy, because I think OWS did a good job of promoting the concept of "the one percent," attracting more news coverage of the financial world's misbehavior than it was otherwise getting, and generally creating more discussion and awareness of Wall Street and D.C. than was otherwise happening."
Not so. By turning everything into dumb slogans, it mucked up the debate about the power of the rich.
Also, the notion of the 1% vs 99% was so misleading that it turned economic issues into a childish cartoon.
And of course, it completely overlooked the ethnic element of elite power.
@anonymous:
What I was getting at was that if, IMHO, Medical MJ in Cali hadn't happened, legalized recreation in Colorado and Washington wouldn't have happened.
I can see how someone would get that impression, but marijuana legalization movements have been around considerably longer than modern movements to legalize marijuana on "medical" grounds.
For example, NORML was founded in 1970 and was a serious legit lobby from then until about 1980, whereas the modern push for "prescription pot" didn't come until the mid-to-late 1990s.
Of course, the medical qualities were known and touted before then (Marinol came out in the 70s because bureaucrats foolishly assumed that the one chemical--out of over 400 found in cannabis--that got you high must also be the one that relieves ocular pressure and nausea) but the whole "California tactic" wasn't nearly as big a thing back then.
It's more like legalization advocates (being in the 1970s mostly hippie types pushing back against the Neocons who had by then turned conservatives vocally against sensible drug policy) eventually got frustrated by decades of their own incompetent lobbying and impotent PR, so they and their Gen-X proteges figured "medical" marijuana had a more authoritative ring to it, and they switched to that tack instead. It worked, in some sense.
Legalization successes in Washington and Colorado might be riding on some of the medical marijuana victories, but I'd sooner discount that than the efforts of the all-out legalization activists who came before.
Steve,
You are incorrect about that poster. The lady is an elite progressive, and that bull is the rioting masses.
Rather: the bull is in the foreground, and a mob with brickbats is merely suggested. The bull is a contained threat.
The ballerina is perfectly balanced on the bull, and with those heavy eyelids it is oblivious to her. The bull might charge, and she would easily hop off or pirouette on its back. She is the one asking, "What is our one demand?" The bull has its instructions, that it is to occupy Wall Street and nothing more.
a struggle promising street fighting over who has better aesthetic taste
Do you find the ballerina aesthetic, or is she a nasty little bitch?
I think that if nasty little bitches want to play with bulls, society should constrain that it be the Pamplona bull run.
In addition to having their pictures taken at the front end of the bull, many tourists pose at the back of the bull, near the large testicles "for snapshots under an unmistakable symbol of its virility."[16] According to a Washington Post article in 2002, "People on The Street say you've got to rub the nose, horns and testicles of the bull for good luck, tour guide Wayne McLeod would tell the group on the Baltimore bus, who would giddily oblige."[17] According to a 2004 New York Times article, "Passers-by have rubbed — to a bright gleam — its nose, horns and a part of its anatomy that, as Mr. Benepe put it gingerly, 'separates the bull from the steer.'"[1]
A poster showing a ballerina on the Charging Bull to promote the Occupy Wall Street movement
A 2007 newspaper account agreed that a "peculiar ritual" of handling the "shining orbs" of the statue's scrotum seems to have developed into a tradition. One visitor, from Mississippi, told the Tribeca Trib she did it "for good luck", and because "there’s a kind of primal response when you see something like that. You just have to engage it."[3] The enthusiastic reaction to the sculpture continues into the darker hours. "I’ve seen people do some crazy things to that bull," said a souvenir vendor, "At night sometimes, when people have been drinking, I’ve seen them do stuff to that bull that you couldn’t print in a newspaper."
A different city but don't forget the L.A. city council promised they'd allocate free office space for use of Occu-Woodstock West
Do you think it was cursed by its NYC trendy-downtown-art-scene origins? The same media thrilled by covering the nearby protesters in Zuccotti Park was almost sneering at Occupy Omaha or the Boise Liberation Front. The sole dangerous OWS franchise was in Oakland; others were easily portrayed as addled Deadheads
I live in NYC, and I've been by Charging Bull many times, so I'm actually rather impressed (and even a little intimidated!) by the ballet dancer, who appears to be somewhere in the neighborhood of nine feet tall.
"""No, you are most definitely notsaying said...
Excellent points and great delivery, Ray Sawhill.""""
Both of you are socialists so its entirely understandable that you'd agree with Sawhill.
Also some of the people from Occupy Wall St did some great work in New York City neighborhoods for Sandy relief and cleanup.""""
That does NOT absolve them from the mess that they made in lower Manhattan and having almost caused hygienic diseases breaking out, including the risk of malaria.
So to deflect OWS's complete and utter and total incompetence you now want to piggy back onto a natural disaster of which OWS....wait a second!
OWS occurred during 2011 and Sandy during later part of 2012, AFTER OWS officially disbanded. Think we didn't catch that, huh?
"""""Believe it or not, they were organized and effective.""""
Now that's a lie. Go back to your leftist allies and self congratulate yourselves on all the marvelous...taking a stand and making a difference that you singlehandedly caused for.....whatever that no one remembers anymore or even could understand since most of these allegedly grass roots demands were never directly spelled out or clarified.
Better yet, go back and re-read Drunk Idiots posts here regarding the alleged 'completely grass roots' origins of OWS.
By the way, the word OCCUPY is NOT an American term in the slightest. It is of socialist in origin and such followers of Stalin, Lenin, and Mao often used it in their protests during the last century in order to affect violent overthrow.
So, the OWS used socialist lingo to affect their nefarious goals.
""""Occupy Wall St itself is going to develop mass appeal and bring about big changes itself. It is a forerunner group.""""""
This is another lie. OWS is part and parcel of the Democratic party itself. Nearly all of its demands are part of the Party's platform and have been officially a part of it for several years stretching into decades.
"""""The group I am hoping for and waiting for hasn't been formed yet."""""
Fear not, in his next incarnation David Axelrod and/or Rahm Immanuel will reappear to deliver the next "grass roots" organization.
We suggest that you take yourself to Colorado or the state of Washington and there inhale deeply on the newly legal substances because the smoke you've been blowing around here is putrid and frankly it badly stinks.
You have a good day.
"What do we want - we don't know!
When do we want it - we're not sure!"
Exactly. If you don't have some concrete change to work on, you won't get any change.
The happiest states in the US:
North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Montana and Nebraska.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/north-dakota-happier-hawaii/story?id=22620793&google_editors_picks=true
Can't think why!
...in end the problem was none of those arguments work when people feel they are ruled by strangers that they feel no attachment to. --anon
"Feel no attachment to." The unattached "Patriots" came from the same families as the very attached Loyalists. The Dutch, Huguenots and Germans were slower to rebel against England than their Anglo-Saxon neighbors.
So "attachment" here must refer to some factor other than blood.
Atop all that, with their typical contempt for middle class industriousness and other "bourgeois" values the OWSers failed in logistics - they organized no substantial, no credible means to house and feed themselves - instead they resorted to appeals for charity. They also failed to police themselves, mostly in their failure to keep bums, winos, druggies, opportunists, criminals, and other parasites away from their ramshackle encampments. The OWSers didn't have one tenth of the logistical smarts, discipline, or know-how of the 1930's Veterans Bonus Army, let alone of the thoroughly organized, prepared, deeply committed, and implacably determined rebels in the Ukraine.
It's highly likely that the NYPD was sending the bums, winos and druggies into the OWS encampment to mooch and make OWS's image worse.
What struck me about OWS was that ill-kempt Lefty protestors were taking their campaign right into the beating heart of, well, uh, middle-class Lefty neighborhoods: downtown Manhattan, which votes about 70% Democratic, downtown Washington DC, which votes about 90% Democratic and, of course, college campuses.
Good point here. During the OWS craze, I was living in Austin, another middle-class, mostly white, left-wing city. The movement there was vigorous indeed! It started in October 2011 with people camping out at City Hall. They were indulged until a large movie and music festival, South by Southwest, occurred in March 2013. The "movement" is still ongoing and several groups meet under its banner (all silly left-wing crap).
Sure, Occupy was a failure in the end, due largely to its unwillingness to unify around any one achievable goal. It did bring some light to the issue of income inequality. Its failures weren't exactly glorious, but at least they were fighting for themselves.
What have all you republican and libertarian bootlickers ever done except endlessly whine about taxes and birth certificates on behalf of the same international plutocracy that's been destroying your economy, culture, and families for the last 60 years?
Basically, I agree with the posters who said owsers were the sons of the 10% asking in polite terms where their cushy government and NGO jobs were. And it looked fabricated from the top down. Sometimes you need to push people to the streets to defuse worse demonstrations.
DR says this is the
wealthiest time in history.
And it is
For people like him
Who work in finance.
Over the last sixty years the vast majority of the people i come from have been violently ethnically cleansed… --anon
I'm assuming the "vast majority" of these people voted for LBJ or FDR, and in most cases, both. In other words, they voted for the welfare state. By doing do, they endorsed their own dispossession.
Some of you are under the delusion that the welfare state is good for the white man. This is impossible. Because the white man is the most likely to "throw the bums out" for incompetence or corruption, he is the least desirable of the world's peoples to serve the purposes of the welfare state. Hence, he will be replaced by the more reliable.
What, you ask? The welfare state is meant to serve the purposes of the white man (who funds it), not vice versa? Wow! You are delusional!
the American establishment's police, budget and firepower are about a zillion times more powerful and effective than the Ukrainean government's
It's interesting that Hagel today announced cuts to reduce the size of the military to 1940 manpower strength, however, special forces will increase. This may make sense if your enemy is not rolling through the Fulda Gap with 5000 tanks, but is a bunch of Iraq veterans camped out on The Mall because their VA benefits got cut.
Chinese like to rub the testicles of the bull for good luck? Well sir,if any Chinese ladies want some good luck and are looking for some testicles to rub...call me.
"but it's important to remember that we're living in pretty much the wealthiest, most peaceful, freest and most fair time and place in human history."
Funnily enough that exactly the same argument the old colonials used to ask the locals not to try get rid of colonial rule.
You know, Canada isn't that bad of a place.
Nor is Australia, New Zealand, etc.
Frankly, British colonies that were populated by the British were pretty much destined to turn out well.
"If George III had been an American king we would probably still have an monarchy".
Interestingly Prince Charles has said that if George had just troubled himself enough to have gone across the ocean once or twice on a 'royal tour' to see the colonists, the revolution would probably never have happened.
Wow, one mention of OWS and the Koch brothers storm the comment section.
"Interestingly Prince Charles has said that if George had just troubled himself enough to have gone across the ocean once or twice on a 'royal tour' to see the colonists, the revolution would probably never have happened."
He's probably right in all likelihood.
Wow, one mention of OWS and the Koch brothers storm the comment section. --anonymous (of course)
OWS agrees with the Kochs on immigration policy, i.e., the very definition "America" to future generations. Why would they do this, unless they were on the payroll of the Kochs as well?
Oh, I get it… they're on the Soros payroll instead. Wow! Big improvement!
Whose payroll are you on?
""""Wow, one mention of OWS and the Koch brothers storm the comment section."""""
Shut up. Like, OWS really speak for the working class? Grow up and get a clue if you can find one.
""""Sure, Occupy was a failure in the end""""
NO, it was a failure from the beginning. I take back what I said regarding OWS having no discernible goal. Actually it did have a discernible goal.
Obama was reelected. Thus Axelrod's faux 'grass roots' group achieved its ends.
"""due largely to its unwillingness to unify around any one achievable goal.""""
Just answered this part. Obama was reelected so it did achieve one discernible goal.
"""It did bring some light to the issue of income inequality.""""
What? You actually mean to say that there's always been rich people and poor people like, forever in human history?
Really?
Seriously?
No, can't be! Everyone knows we've always been the same!
You're serious, right?
Dang. There's actually rich people and poor people and they're not all the same, income wise.
Dang. Who'd a thought it?
Dang.
Wait, cause of the statue in Wall St area, the actual word would be dong, like in China, right? And we are talking about bull testicles, right?
""""Its failures weren't exactly glorious, but at least they were fighting for themselves.""""
And Obama's reelection. Forgot that part, oh well.
Yes, they were definitely fighting for themselves alone and NOT for others in this country. You finally agree, thank you!
""""What have all you republican and libertarian bootlickers ever done except endlessly whine about taxes and birth certificates""""""
Hold it hold it. Say what now?
"""on behalf of the same international plutocracy that's been destroying your economy, culture, and families for the last 60 years?""""
Ok, would you mind turning off your inner Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Adolph, and Kemer Ruhge? Huh? Cause frankly, it's getting a little old, red, and tiresome at this point.
Thank you.
DONG
QED
Charles isn't stupid. Quite an insight into his perception on PR and power.
There is or was a bull like that on the Merrill Lynch campus in Jacksonville, Florida. The pizzle and balls on that monster were shiny from rubbing, with no Chinese around.
Indeed. Ive seen similar polished bits of metal sculpture all over the place. Balls, breasts etc always the shiniest bits!
""""Indeed. Ive seen similar polished bits of metal sculpture all over the place. Balls, breasts etc always the shiniest bits!"""""
Time to get your shine on!
@Reg Caesar
"I'm assuming the "vast majority" of these people voted for LBJ or FDR, and in most cases, both. In other words, they voted for the welfare state. By doing do, they endorsed their own dispossession."
Nope. The media reported the violence at a ratio of 100:1 in one direction when in reality it was 100:1 in the other direction.
If the media hadn't lied about what was happening there would have been a reaction.
Nothing to do with the welfare state. 100% to do with the media lying.
OWS in Boston had a special place in the hearts of we center-right types. The Dewey Square parks where they camped were created by the Big Dig, the biggest public works boondoggle in US history. The people there were almost exclusively upper-class college students, mid-level union activists and ancient Ponytailaban pining for the Sixties.
To the Occupy Wall St "Expert":
The group is still around, some of its related groups are still around too.
They never disbanded.
That was funny about the malaria.
The Koch brothers, eh? Well the intellectual level of the OWS diehard commenters is established... It's not a judgment on the policy positions(?) of OWS to observe that it sorta failed at the time, completely. It's a separate argument. When butthurt Manhattan campers are now claiming both "Our righteous movement was ahead of its time" and "We didn't really not succeed when you think about it"--together that's tough to take seriously.
>>>No, he's really and truly notsaying said...
"""To the Occupy Wall St "Expert":""""
Right back at ya, OWS 'Expert'. Top of the morning, to ye!
"""The group is still around,"""
Hey, yeah, I know. Did you know that so is the TEA PARTY? Yeah, yeah. They're still around as well. And doing just fine too.
"""some of its related groups are still around too.""""
This is especially true in its most biggest supporters, the Democratic Party. The Democratic Platform has many of OWS's demands already in their platform and has so for several yrs going back into a couple decades now.
"""They never disbanded."""
Come on. Neither has that lone soldier out at Pearl Harbor waiting for the Japanese 2nd Attack on Hawaii.
But as far as being directly relevant in a public policy sort of way, you know. Time to call it a day.
Funny how once the media lost interest the vast majority just...disappeared.
No, seriously, we know they're still around, somewhere. Anywhere. They are.
All they have to do is simply join their comrades, ER...kindred spirits over in the Democratic Party.
Remember, the people's socialism will be achieved gradually thru non-violent and in US especially via non-protesting means.
OWS will get their goals achieved, all they need is patience.
""""That was funny about the malaria."""""
Yep it was. Shame it was also true. It nearly happened. So much for OWS's great organizational skills.
But hey, all that really matters is that OWS was highlighted and heard.
OH! I never did get to thank you guys for helping to re-elect President Obama.
Thank you! That was very smooth and slick on OWS's part, pretending not to be a popular front or Democratic operative stooge.
Clever and oh soooo cool how OWS did that. Twas almost believable and had quite a few fooled.
Have a good day.
anything, ironically perhaps, the Tea Party is closer to the white working man and their ordinary goals in life. (e.g. basic needs met, job security, pension, etc) The Occupy movement was elitist in outlook and in organization. Its almost as if they were the offspring of the 60s Radicals who protested for various leftwing goals of the day. Also, it is worth noting than many former 60s protesters did show up to protest at the Occupy mvt. as well
Bullshit, most of the Tea Party supports tax breaks for rich people and importing tech vista workers. The darlings of the Tea Party are Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the biggest supporters of tech worker programs. They only go against illegal immigration because their based is against it but about 60 percent of Tea Party politicians support guest worker programs for cheap labor if they could get away with it.
""""Bullshit,""""
You think so? Really, now?
""""most of the Tea Party supports tax breaks for rich people and importing tech vista workers.""""
Yes, but OWS also supports H-1B visas. They weren't known for being vs illegal immigration or even a cap or restriction on immigration. As socialists they are very much in favor of open borders.
""""The darlings of the Tea Party are Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are the biggest supporters of tech worker programs.""""
And so is OWS. That's not what they were protesting, at least not directly either.
""""They only go against illegal immigration because their base is against it."""""
THANK YOU. In other words, the Tea Party was originally founded started by grass rooters who were white working persons and vs the influx of massive illegal immigration.
That's certainly more than can ever be said of OWS, which, dude, what this post IS about.
In fact, its hard to say that OWS was EVER in favor of much of anything that directly benefits the white working class as a whole. Cant think of anything that directly will benefit them SPECIFICALLY. Not in some cloudy vague general kinda sorta sense but specifically.
Cant think of anything. Even though OWS was about 90% white in outlook, whether on the streets or in the leadership.
"""but about 60 percent of Tea Party politicians support guest worker programs for cheap labor if they could get away with it."""""
Yes they do. So why don't you take a positive step and make a difference by running for local office and work your way up thru the ranks and change it?
Have to start somewhere, sometime.
Oh well.
You have a nice day.
DAMMIT STEVE, get out of my brain!
Worthy of note, OWS didn't have Otper organizing their shyeah, or US State Department support. Nor John McCain and Mrs. Nudelman handing out cookies.
Ultimately, though, Dave Barry kind of summed it up well
"The Democrats seem to be basically nicer people, but they have demonstrated time and again that they have the management skills of celery. They're the kind of people who'd stop to help you change a flat, but would somehow manage to set your car on fire. I would be reluctant to entrust them with a Cuisinart, let alone the economy. The Republicans, on the other hand, would know how to fix your tire, but they wouldn't bother to stop because they'd want to be on time for Ugly Pants Night at the country club."
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