April 7, 2014

NCAA: Vox on the Rox: Kentucky's scholar-athletes

From Vox
Ezra Klein's much-touted new website Vox's top story tonight is 
UConn Basketball's Dirty Secret 
by Libby Nelson 
The University of Connecticut Huskies made a triumphant return to the NCAA tournament this year — winning the national championship Monday night — after the school was barred from competition in 2013 for poor academic performance.
But UConn's graduation rate for male basketball players is still the worst of any team in the 2014 tournament.
UConn graduates 8 percent of its players, according to the most recent NCAA statistics. To put it another way: of the 12 players who started as freshmen eight years ago, exactly one managed to finish a college degree or leave UConn in good academic standing. 
The University of Florida, whom the Huskies beat to advance to the championship, has a graduation success rate of 60 percent; the University of Kentucky, playing UConn tonight, has a graduation rate of 82 percent.

Okay, but are you really, really sure that Kentucky graduates 82% of its male basketball players? Isn't Kentucky coach John Calipari's whole strategy to recruit one-and-done NBA prospects, who have to spend exactly one year in college before they are eligible for the pros?
"If you recruit guys who you know are going to be there for four years, you'll probably be in the NIT, and that's not a good thing at Kentucky," [Calipari] said. "You recruit the best players you can, and if someone is going to take them in the first round, I tell them to go."

Didn't Kentucky win the NCAA in 2012 and immediately have two freshmen get drafted #1 and #2 by the NBA? Didn't Calipari start five freshmen this year? Doesn't Calipari have one white senior who is still at Kentucky while all his other recruits are in pro ball or long gone? Yes, Jon Hood:
... [Hood] has many friends who are former teammates that have gone on to the NBA while he remained for a five-year career. By Hood’s count, he has 17 numbers in his phone for former Wildcats now in the pros, with whom he at least semi-regularly connects. A good deal of them are the one-and-doners and the early departers, who took leave of Lexington not long after they took a college class for the first time. Hood stayed, the only player on the current Final Four roster remaining from the 2009-10 season, John Calipari’s first in Lexington.

Coach Calipari makes $5.2 million per year. He doesn't get paid that for having a benchwarmer graduate, he gets paid that for recruiting superstars who have no intention of finishing their second semester at UK.

Eventually, the Vox article gets around to admitting that its statistics are from 2003-2006, back in the Tubby Smith Era of recruiting. Kentucky's starting five tonight were mostly under ten years old in 2003-2006. The past is a different country ...

This kind of dumb miscue is normal in the news biz where the goal is to churn out crud fast. But, Ezra Klein has spent three months explaining how he's going to revolutionize journalism by providing Deep Context.

Oh, well, that appears to have lasted about 24 hours ...

Part of what Dead Tree Newspapers provide is institutional memory -- old codgers in the newsroom who have been around long enough to remember things like that Kentucky is different than it was ten years ago, that in fact it's now the most extreme example of one-and-done.

Also, when making a bar chart, there's no need to make each bar a separate color.
    

53 comments:

eah said...

I think that has more to do with the players than UConn.

Anonymous said...

I think that has more to do with the players than UConn.

It appears Steve doesn't really care about the underlying story. He just wanted to seize on the opportunity rip online journalistic practices.

Grey Enlightenment said...

looks like it's failing. the partnership with GE doesn't help their cause either. major potential conflicts of interest.

Anonymous said...

Isn't Kentucky coach John Calipari's whole strategy to recruit one-and-done NBA prospects, who have to spend exactly one year in college before they are eligible for the pros?

This all seems like so much nonsense. If you were a freshman at Harvard and Google offered $millions$ wouldn't you say "bye bye Harvard?"

Anonymous said...

"This kind of dumb miscue is normal in the news biz where the goal is to churn out crud fast. But, Ezra Klein has spent three months explaining how he's going to revolutionize journalism by providing Deep Context.

Oh, well, that appears to have lasted about 24 hours"

Yes, it appears it takes him over 24 hours to churn out crud while others churn out crud almost instantaneously.

Anonymous said...

Also, when making a bar chart, there's no need to make each bar a separate color.

Diversity

Anonymous said...

I wonder how Vox Day feels about this new site

josh said...

Why does Ezra Klein still seem like a child to me?

josh said...

"It appears Steve doesn't really care about the underlying story. He just wanted to seize on the opportunity rip online journalistic practices."

Well, seriously, Steve the the H.L. Mencken of the 21st century and he still has a tip jar. He's entitled to a little snark about these empty-headed wonderboys.

Jason Young said...

there is no underlying story because the article doesn't even ask the right questions. we don't know how graduation rates vary over time within schools. do past graduation rates predict future graduation rates? the article doesn't say. obviously a team's graduation rate will depend on the proportion of players who leave for the NBA. how well does the average recruiting class rank of a school's incoming freshmen predict graduation rate? who knows? that number will depend on the reputation of the coach. to what extent?

forgive me for being dense, but i also don't see why they'd publish this article immediately after the championship game. is it for people who just want to hate on the ignorance of NCAA athletes and the injustice of all the attention they receive? who's it for?

Steve Johnson said...

What I don't get is the emphasis on such an easily gamed metric.

A low graduation rate for basketball players put into a university tells me two things:

1) the basketball players aren't intelligent enough to handle college material in the amount of time that they have to dedicate to it or that they choose not to spend enough time on it

2) the university has enough residual honesty to not just give them a degree anyway

If the metric for acceptability for college basketball programs becomes graduation rate which of (1) or (2) are you betting changes?

I know where my money would go.

Anonymous said...

The difference, Anon 3:20, is that the kid at Harvard isn't being exploited by the university for financial gain, and 15 years down the road, the kid from Harvard won't have blown through all the money he earned from a short pro career on posses, bling and Bentleys because he was just a piece of meat and no one bothered to teach him anything.

Anonymous said...

Coach Cal calls his success rate the proportion of his players who either graduate or go to the NBA, and it's high. Seems reasonable. It's better than coaches who ride players and then dump then with no options in life.

The Z Blog said...

Ezra Klein's act reminds me a lot of Keith Olberman's rampage through the cable outlets. Olberman was convinced he made ESPN. Then he was convinced he made MSNBC. So much so he stomped off in a huff to create his own deal with manbearpig. Now, he is back sniffing jocks for ESPN.

In a few years Ezra will be on CNN as a C-list celebrity pretending to be smart for a paycheck.

Anonymous said...

The NCAA pooh-bahs, e.g. Emmert, like to point to the NBA and say, "They have a rule that's hurting our game and our student-athletes." However, the NCAA could remove freshman eligibility and, in essence, enforce a two-and-done rule. Make freshmen play on a freshman team like they did back in the day. Then a superstar freshman would need to return as a sophomore to play varsity (and get the national TV exposure) or go to the NBA directly from the freshman team. Most superstar freshmen would still need that year in front of the cameras against varsity competition to improve their NBA draft stock. The problem is the NCAA wants to utilize multi-million $ talent for 4 years in exchange for an athletic scholarship.

Anonymous said...

Kentucky doesn't graduate 82% of student-athletes. The NCAA Graduation Success Rate measures individuals who either graduate within 6 years of initial enrollment OR manage to depart the institution while academically eligible. If a student doesn't graduate, but he leaves while eligible, the institution is not penalized.

The surprise isn't that Kentucky's number is so high but that UCONN's is so low. An 8 on the GSR is just hard to fathom. Either the person reporting the number isn't doing it right (unlikely) or a ton of students bolted the institution with lousy grades.

The numbers are from several years back because, since the GSR is a six-year rate, the latest number is always a snapshot that is six years old.

Steve Sailer said...

Anonymous Steve Johnson said...
"What I don't get is the emphasis on such an easily gamed metric."

Right.

One of the things top colleges do is put white guys who really are decent students on the basketball team as benchwarmers to get the graduation stats up. These Reverse Ringers are called "swimmies" in "I Am Charlotte Simmons."

One thing to keep in mind is how much time athletes can profitably put into working out these days. I recall an interview with Kevin Love when he was UCLA. He'd been an excellent freshman, but when he got to the Final Four he looked like The Slow White Guy.

Then a couple of months later he blew away the NBA scouts at the combine or workout day or whatever it's called with the shape he was in. He explained that as soon as the NCAA tournament was over, he didn't have to go to class anymore, so he could now work out all the time. (PEDs? You be the judge!)

If the UCLA calendar is still the same as when I was there, that means Love only finished two of the twelve quarters needed for his degree.

Anonymous said...

Anon said "The difference, Anon 3:20, is that the kid at Harvard isn't being exploited by the university for financial gain, and 15 years down the road, the kid from Harvard won't have blown through all the money he earned from a short pro career on posses, bling and Bentleys because he was just a piece of meat and no one bothered to teach him anything."

Do you see anything a bit off about using the verb "exploited" and then complaining that "no one bothered to teach him anything"? People that are capable of being "exploited" in adult-to-adult transactions most likely aren't going to be capable of being taught not to blow their money on bling, posses, and Bentleys. A sizeable swath of NCAA basketball (and football) players have no business on a university campus and are bound and determined to leave as ignorant as when they arrived.
Who was it that said “a fool and their money were lucky to get together in the first place”?

Anonymous said...

Steve you are wrong about UK. Only player since Calipari has been at Kentucky has left not being in good academic standing, Daniel Orton, and he was recruited by Billy Gillespie. Yes Cal recruits the best players, he can but he gets the cream of the crop. There is no doubt that the average IQ of the UK players is much higher than the UConn players. That didn't help them last night though.

DPG said...

Classic, Steve. I mean, anyone who even knows who John Calipari is (and shouldn't that be a minimum requirement for writing an article about college basketball?) knows that he churns through superstars.

And shouldn't another requirement for writing about college basketball be to have watched the championship game? The best player on the court was UConn's Shabazz Napier, a senior, who seems like he'll graduate. 7 of the 8 players who played for Kentucky were freshman. The eighth was a sophomore.

poolside said...

My favorite new college athletics trend is the signing day announcement news conference, where the brilliant young scholars announce:

"I'm taking my talents to the University of LSU."

Anonymous said...

"""Part of what Dead Tree Newspapers provide is institutional memory -- old codgers in the newsroom who have been around long enough to remember things like that Kentucky is different than it was ten years ago, that in fact it's now the most extreme example of one-and-done.""""


In a post you wrote some time ago, most NCAA schools are heavily represented with low graduation rates. UCLA is the worst. During former Coach Ben Howland's back to back final four seasons the starting roster was filled with ones and done and extended into 09 with a couple players (who would later gutlessly blame him for being lower NBA draft picks rather than coveted lottery picks).

Bottom line: If the NBA would remove the one and done requirement and allow high school ready players to be directly drafted into the NBA like before, a la Kobe, LeBron, Dwight Howard, etc. this problem would not exist, for the most part.

Calipari is not the problem. The problem exists because 18yr old NBA players, the top 1%, are prevented from being drafted. That was a mistake the NBA made around 06 and they should rescind this rule.

Anonymous said...

>>Steve Sailer wrote:
""""f the UCLA calendar is still the same as when I was there, that means Love only finished two of the twelve quarters needed for his degree.""""


To be fair, since you may be unaware, but Kevin Love has been highlighted as one of about 40 current NBA players who HAVE returned to their college (in his case, UCLA) during the offseason in the attempts to finish school and eventually graduate.

Kevin Love has been a featured example. In his case, at least he is attempting to eventually get his degree. About forty NBA players in all are doing this and most are not prominent names.

Otherwise I totally agree and as always....who said that life was fair?

Seriously, Steve, I would have thought you would have called attention to Wisconsin actually starting 5 white players this NCAA tourney and they made it all the way to the FInal Four and nearly won that round. And they did it with 5 white guys.

How'd that ever happen in 2014? I wasn't aware that whites could even dribble effectively let alone won actual games.

Anonymous said...

I used to read 538 more when it was aligned with NYT and prior to its NYT association.

However, it is terrible now IMO. A crappier Grantland.

IMO Klein and Silver made a mistake leaving WaPo and NYT respectively.

countenance said...

Even if they do "graduate."

So what?

Graduate in what?

Affirmative action basket weaving?

VD said...

I wonder how Vox Day feels about this new site

I view them as very kindly building my brand for me.

Anonymous said...

"The difference, Anon 3:20, is that the kid at Harvard isn't being exploited by the university for financial gain, and 15 years down the road, the kid from Harvard won't have blown through all the money he earned from a short pro career on posses, bling and Bentleys because he was just a piece of meat and no one bothered to teach him anything."

Can we get off the business of kids and parents being "exploited"? They know damn good and well what they're getting with a football or bb scholarship. They know damn good and well what they can and cannot do academically when they sign on the dotted line.

Boo hoo. Their time at the college, should they not be serious about an education or not smart enough to take advantage of it, is just an extention of their playground years, their childhood.

Again. Boo hoo.

Anonymous said...

Kentucky doesn't graduate 82% of student-athletes. The NCAA Graduation Success Rate measures individuals who either graduate within 6 years of initial enrollment OR manage to depart the institution while academically eligible. If a student doesn't graduate, but he leaves while eligible, the institution is not penalized.

The surprise isn't that Kentucky's number is so high but that UCONN's is so low. An 8 on the GSR is just hard to fathom. Either the person reporting the number isn't doing it right (unlikely) or a ton of students bolted the institution with lousy grades.

I guess we will now know whether everyone who is anyone reads this site because Vox could just re-print this comment and have completely destroyed this entire post. I guess this post is the kind of sloppy snark you can expect from some who bangs the tin cup around to pay the rent.

Yancey Ward said...

The Vox article is piss-poor, no way around that.

In that time frame, Smith recruited largely players who were not high draft material, and they stayed for four years. To his and Kentucky's credit, those players received degrees. Connecticut, on the other hand, did recruit players who had high draft prospects and number of those left early.

The criticism is pretty daft anyway- the players from UCONN in that period mostly made millions in the NBA, and the Kentucky of today players who don't stay four (or two!) years also make big money without exception in the Calipari era.

A proper evaluation would simply focus on the academic standing of the players who bolt for the NBA and not give a sh*t about whether or not they received a degree. Now, the NCAA does keep track of the standing of the players who depart early, and penalizes teams whose early draftees let their academics slip in the Spring of their last year in college. I am guessing all the final four teams are high in this metric, and it is the only one that really matters.

free said...

This morning a Bay Area radio guy said that when the cameras focused on the player's parents at the game, the was one father.

tn-87 said...

Each bar a separate color.


That must be Klein's equivalent of your superfluous 'of'.

jody said...

there is no way to measure this reliably since the universities will simply give some of the players a fake degree, but the rate and type of fake degree varies from school to school.

i will agree that it is staggering so many of the players can't even get that done. how do you not even get a fake degree? you want to drop out that bad?

"One of the things top colleges do is put white guys who really are decent students on the basketball team as benchwarmers to get the graduation stats up."

lol no. what we mean is that there is no way to control for how each university decides how their fake degree system works. one school may decide the players have to at least attend some of the classes of the easiest major, and at least attempt to hand in some assignments, quality of the assignments also negotiable. these guys can still be failed, if they do no work at all.

other schools may decided certain players never have to do anything ever, and the players may even be barely literate. they never have to attend class or hand in any assignments, or the school may have other students do the work for them, or may simply have the dean assign them a passing grade.

both sets of guys get the same thing at the end: a diploma.

and a lot of the european players are dumb too, and require a fake degree to be counted as graduated. the idea that all the european players are graduating is wrong. some of those guys are drop outs and flunkies as well.

the D1 walk on benchwarmer guys are practice dummies and they are NOT selected because they are good students who bring the grade point average up for the whole team. most of those guys are total losers who have some kind of basketball fantasy. these are guys who could not play D2, sometimes even D3. they just want to be used and abused by the coach and scholarship players in exchange for temporary, fleeting association with the team. "I was on the team! I never played though..."

jody said...

i see steve's obsession with kevin love continues. no way he could be good at basketball. not a chance. he actually sucks, and it's all drugs, or something.

hey steve, how did jabari parker do in the NCAA tournament? oh that's right, he went 4 for 14 against mercer and duke lost in the very first game. i guess he looks like the 'can't shoot black guy.'

suddenly when he plays well in the NBA, will you claim drugs?

DPG said...

OT: Sailerites should find this amusing. It's funny how SNL's political coverage is uniformly leftist, but for their random skits they pull out stuff like this.

http://dailypicksandflicks.com/2014/04/06/snl-norfolk-zoo-field-trip-with-principal-frye-video/

Anonymous said...

Way off topic:

" The cornerstone foundations of the state cultural policy should be the thesis that "Russia is not Europe," say the authors of the "Fundamentals of the state cultural policy." "Russia should be considered as a unique and distinctive civilization, can not be reduced either to the" West "or to the" East. " Brief statement of this position is the thesis that "Russia is not Europe", confirmed by the whole history of the country and the people, "- said in a draft" Basic state cultural policy ", prepared by the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation. The document was signed by First Deputy Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation Vladimir Aristarhova and sent to the president's administration.

(http://www.ng.ru/politics/2014-04-04/2_cultura.html)

countenance said...

The day is April 8, 2024.

On tonight's episode of "Where Are They Now?"

* Nate Silver
* Ezra Klein
* Justin Bieber

Luke Lea said...

If they aren't going to pay college athletes directly, they ought to at least set up trust funds to cover their future educational and medical needs and, in the case of the pros, their retirement. When you see what happens to many of these elite or near elite athletes later in life, it is clear that they need help in these areas. That kind of help is expensive, but it is only a small fraction of the amount of revenue these talented individuals are generating for their coaches, who are generally the highest paid public employees in the nation (by almost an order of magnitude in many cases).

stari_momak said...

"Also, when making a bar chart, there's no need to make each bar a separate color."

LOL. The leading guy in presenting "beautiful info" (Tufte), would say that there is not only no need, colors actually distort the perception of the data, or in the best case are a needless distraction.

stari_momak said...

"Shabazz Napier"

Sounds like a black Muslim. Say what you want about their ridiculous theology, they seem to turn out some respectable, well educated black folks.*

Sort of like black Mormons.

stari_momak said...

Isn't it ironic (hey Alanis) that the relatively whiter sports (baseball and hockey), have a minor league system, while the blacker sports use colleges as theirs?

Cail Corishev said...

If they aren't going to pay college athletes directly, they ought to at least set up trust funds to cover their future educational and medical needs and, in the case of the pros, their retirement.

I suspect there are many financial advisors who would be glad to take their pro signup bonuses and paychecks and set up such trust funds for them. I bet there are even people (alumni boosters, perhaps?) who would advance them money to create such a thing while still in college, though NCAA rules probably make that impossible.

Steve Sailer said...

I think colleges should compete in wooing high school superstars moms by how well they will manage the trust fund generated by the player's NBA salaries.

Anonymous said...

If they aren't going to pay college athletes directly, they ought to at least set up trust funds to cover their future educational and medical needs and, in the case of the pros, their retirement.

They already have a ton of help from the broader society though. College athletes often have a leg up on jobs even with lower grades and less rigorous degrees. There is also affirmative action in hiring.

Anonymous said...

" The cornerstone foundations of the state cultural policy should be the thesis that "Russia is not Europe," say the authors of the "Fundamentals of the state cultural policy."

There is an element of the "flight from white" here that Steve has mentioned before. There is a "flight from Europe" because "Europe" increasingly means Cultural Marxist values and culture that traditional Russian sensibilities don't find very attractive. In the 17th century under Peter the Great, there was a flight towards Europe by Russia, but that was quite a different Europe back then.

RonMexico said...

"Seriously, Steve, I would have thought you would have called attention to Wisconsin actually starting 5 white players this NCAA tourney and they made it all the way to the FInal Four and nearly won that round. And they did it with 5 white guys.

How'd that ever happen in 2014? I wasn't aware that whites could even dribble effectively let alone won actual games.

4/8/14, 7:13 AM"

Traevon Jackson didn't appear white, nor his name white, and dad was certainly a brutha. However, it was like watching the 86 Celtics or 91 Blue Devils. A rarity that should be appreciated.

And to those wanting to pay the college athletes, only football and men's BB are revenue generators as a whole. Exceptions like UConn womens BB, sure, but this is about as feasible as paying reparations for slavery.

Truth said...

Hey Jody, here's some great entertainment for your next outdoor BBQ.

Truth said...

I don't know, maybe.

Anonymous said...

Ron Mexico said:
"""And to those wanting to pay the college athletes, only football and men's BB are revenue generators as a whole. Exceptions like UConn womens BB, sure, but this is about as feasible as paying reparations for slavery.""


Well, yes, DUH, those are specifically the two sports that make money and are the sports that are constantly singled out as deserving of financial compensation. Various NCAA schools this yr are expected to gross arond 160 MILLION $$ due to their athletic revenue and realize a profit of around 30 MILLION. Now come now. It does not take 30 MILLION to entirely fund the whole Athletic dept.


FACT: Without the players the NCAA makes no money during its biggest bowls, championships/tourneys.


It is long overdue to pay players a basic stipend. It is the height of hypocrisy and foolish naivete at its worst to honestly expect 18 and over Americans to work for free labor.

Note the Northwestern case before the courts. They wanted to do the American thing and unionize. We shall see if justice does exist in this case.

Barring compensating the money making sports which help fund large parts of the Universities (not just athletic dept but certainly the athletic dept receives a large chunk of the profits to be sure), then allow ALL 18 yr old HS grads who are qualified or NBA/NFL ready to declare for the draft.

Funny irony: If an 18 yr old declares for the draft for his country (wants to enlist in the armed services) no one prevents him from doing so. If he passes all the tests and the physical, then he's in.

An 18 yr old athlete, who wants to work in the private sector (e.g. NBA, NFL, etc) should have the same right as any other American citizen who wants to work in the private sector in their chosen field.

IF you say "well, they may not be qualified". A college degree does not qualify them for the NFL/NBA.

ALSO: Kobe. LeBron. Dwight Howard, etc. did NOT attend college. They were drafted directly out of HS. and they are all doing pretty well in the NBA, now aren't they?

Either pay the players a fair and just compensation in college OR allow them at 18yrs old to declare for the pro. draft.

Cause this will go to the courts. Are we citizens allowed a basic right to work in our chosen private sector field or are we not and thus are being denied a basic right to work as US citizens?

Take it to the courts.

RonMexico said...

Anon 7:29, do all student athletes get paid, then? Kentucky's white guys who never see the floor? The 2nd string kicker? Your scenario seems to just focus on football and hoops. Women's field hockey? Is it just division 1? Does anyone see the health care angle on this unionize issue?

Anonymous said...

>>>RonMexico said...
""""Anon 7:29,""""

Yes, speaking, what is it?



"""do all student athletes get paid, then?"""""

Bzzz! Irrelevant in court. The QUESTION should be: Do all student athletes IN SPORTS THAT ACTUALLY MAKE A PROFIT get paid, then?

The answer to this question, is no, they do not. And THIS is wrong and frankly, not the "american way" or, a fairly equitable and just thing in a capitalist society.

Coach Calipari's 5mil annual salary is simply not possible without the players, who receive NOTHING in the way of financial compensation.

Pray continue then.



"""Kentucky's white guys who never see the floor?"""

BZZZZ! Are they actually on the ROSTER? Answer: YES! Thus, just as in the NBA, they subs do receive compensation, albeit not what the starters get paid.

Go ahead.




"""The 2nd string kicker?""""

See above.



""""Your scenario seems to just focus on football and hoops."""""

Uh, because those are the only 2 sports in NCAA Div1,2,&3 that make any sort of profit. And you know this as most every adult who follows collegiate sports even casually know this. Like, duh.

Anything else?



"""Women's field hockey?"""

What about it? AGAIN. The only 2 sports on NCAA campuses that make a profit at all are Men's B'ball and Football. Those two sports singlehandedly fund all the other sports on campus.

Women's sports (a few examples here and there perhaps can be noted but not enough to disprove the rule) do not make money.

What part of 'don't make any money whatsoever in their respective sports' wasn't made clearly understandable? Honestly, I didnt shout. I left it uncapped.

Dude. Come on.

In interests of fairness: IF it can be demonstrated that women's sports or at least a couple of teams here and there CAN DEMONSTRATE a profit, then those individual teams would be allowed to pay their players. Of course, it would not be as much as what the men's b'ball and football would be paid, but if it can be demonstrated that they make a profit of sorts....this can be ironed out at the national agreements.



"""Is it just division 1?"""""

Technicalities which can be finalized in a national agreement. Obviously Div2 and 3 should pay their players as well (in the 2 sports) but not as much as what Div1 players would receive. That's why they're in Div2/3, cause they weren't athletically all that or else they'd be in Div 1.






""""Does anyone see the health care angle on this unionize issue?"""


And that's what the union issue will do, open up some more worm cans that should've been opened up yrs ago.

Take it to the courts!

See, a lot of this problem in NCAA Div1 would in fact largely disappear if you just, you know....rescind the one done stuff and as before. Let the HS players go way of Kobe and LeBron: Declare for the pro draft.

After all, an 18yr old has the right to declare for US draft (providing he pass the physical and tests)

So too should an 18yr old US citizen be allowed to declare for the pro league draft.

RonMexico said...

You spend a lot of words to point out the impossibility of your plan, however I don't disagree with the underlying motivation. If 1 and Done goes then some good comes out of this nonsense. And I don't disagree with paying only the players that produce a profit. Been 20 years since I produced a thesis paper on Title 9 for some bullshit Womens Studies course, and my understanding that all other sports, excepting football and ball, are free riders is more concrete now than then. You won't get around the Title 9 implications on this. And what of athletes in Right to Work states that don't want to be part of a Union? Agents will get their feet in the door further.

Anonymous said...

I would imagine the 2014 wisconsin team will graduate more than 44% of the players.

Anonymous said...

>>RonMexico said...
"""You spend a lot of words to point out the impossibility of your plan,"""""

How so? The Northwestern lawsuit is the opening salvo. The NCAA has long needed to bring reforms and if that includes compensation for the 2 major moneymaking sports, so be it. Do go on.




""""however I don't disagree with the underlying motivation."""""

Didn't think so, because it's a fact. Fairly demonstrable would think.




"""If 1 and Done goes then some good comes out of this nonsense."""""

Exactly, you see? Minds that are alike do tend to see the end, don't they? Seriously, though, I do appreciate your coming around to my view. Thank you.

AND if one and done does go by byes, then it return as before a la Kobe and LeBron: Per the NBA, whichever top HS player is ready bound, he has every right to go directly to the NBA.

OR...brainstorm: Why not the NBA really develop its D league and allow the 18yr olds the opportunity to go there for a yr or two instead of NCAA? At least that way they'd get paid. Now that I could see and readily understand. Also, time for the NBA to learn like how MLB and NHL have to. Develop their minor league D if they so chose to.



""""And I don't disagree with paying only the players that produce a profit.""""

Exactly, exactly. However in interests of fairness, the '6th man' would perhaps make a case to be paid something as well.



""""my understanding that all other sports, excepting football and ball, are free riders is more concrete now than then.""""

I did already just say this before, you know.





"""You won't get around the Title 9 implications on this.""""


Depends. Don't yet discount the mighty NCAA on certain things. There can be a trade off. For intstance:
When the top of paying the athletes comes up nowadays, as it often does, NOBODY, in point of fact, is actually referring to paying the women in any of their sports. Women sports look good in front of Title IX and all that, BUT in actuality not only doesnt make a profit nobody makes a case "gee, those girls out there are really great, they should get paid just like the guys do."

I think for now, they'd be content with an expansion of increased scholarships and in point of fact it has been pointed out that in some sports (women's soccer) there has been increased schoarlships.

Women athletes also tend to actually use their scholarship and attempt to graduate more so than men. The NCAA's academic all stars area perennially more staked with women athletes than men.




""""And what of athletes in Right to Work states that don't want to be part of a Union?""""""

What about them? As US citizens they'll just have to follow those particular laws as it applies now to the pros. Notice also, right to work does NOT interfere with the MLBPA or the NFLPA, so perhaps right to work has not considered fully professional sports as true unions. And anyway that type of thinking simply wouldn't really occur to an 18yr old all by himself. They be happy just to get paid or quicker to the pros.





"""Agents will get their feet in the door further.""""

No doubt, no doubt, and that's a good thing, ultimately, for themselves and for the players.
Bottom line: The NCAA just made ca. 750mil. from their tourney. Are we really expecting them now to cry poormouth a la "We don't have it, we don't have it!"

They do. And they will. Specially if faced with fact that one done rule goes away and the top picks can declare directly for NBA.

So they will pay. Oh, yes they will.